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Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!!

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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#801 » by WuTang_CMB » Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:50 am

Sam veceni new mock

Now has green going #2

Long before I joined this business in 2009, I was always poring over mocks and potential trades for the upcoming NBA Draft. I would even sit down and write out my own mock drafts on a legal pad. The scouting and projecting aspects of the draft do it for me. It’s a big reason why I wanted to join in on the mock drafting on The Athletic. Sam Vecenie and John Hollinger do a phenomenal job leading our draft coverage. Vecenie is a machine. I can tell you from personal experience that I can mention a random 10th man on a Summer League roster who has no chance of making the NBA, and Sam will have a full breakdown for me in the flow of the conversation. Hollinger is a mental database for all these players and drafts of the past. They boggle my mind on their level of retention on all these guys and the process.

What do I want to bring to this? My mock draft is here to add another voice, albeit a smaller one, to the proceedings. I’ve done deep dives on these guys throughout the past couple of months. I’ve studied the team needs and the makeup of the franchises moving forward. I’ve talked to scouts and front office people about the direction of these picks. So I want to bring in where I think teams should or would go with each selection, and whether or not a trade might be something we see.

In essence, I’m not trying to be the Chris Bosh to the LeBron James/Dwyane Wade of the Vecenie/Hollinger draft coverage. I’m good at being Mario Chalmers. A lot of irrational confidence. A voice that is louder than it should be. Constantly being yelled at by the bigger teammates because of something I did or said. Ultimately, I love the draft and the fun it brings. So let’s have fun in this mock draft space.

1. Detroit Pistons – Cade Cunningham, G/F, Oklahoma State, 19 years old
No change here from the previous mock.

Previous analysis: The Pistons are going to take Cade Cunningham. We can get into the thought exercises of whether or not it’s fine to consider someone else like USC big man Evan Mobley or guards Jalen Green or Jalen Suggs. Go ahead and give them all a look. They’re good players and really intriguing prospects. But let me ask you a question: Did you happen to see if any of those guys were Cade Cunningham? No, they’re not?

Then go with Cunningham. He’s 6-foot-8 with a 7-foot wingspan. He can create out of the pick-and-roll for everybody. He’s a fantastic catch-and-shoot guy, whether he’s defended or wide open. He can make every play imaginable. Compare him to Luka Doncic. Compare him to Grant Hill. Cunningham has the build and the potential for either. Maybe he’ll struggle to defend smaller guys, but he’s the top prospect and the only pick for Detroit.

Is a trade possible? It would take an unreasonable offer to get Troy Weaver to trade out of taking Cunningham. But hey, for the hell of it, James Edwards and many of our other beat writers went through eight potential deals!

2. Houston Rockets – Jalen Green, G, G League, 19 years old
Previous pick: Jalen Suggs
We’ve swapped out one Jalen for another, with Jalen Green being the pick at No. 2 this week. The reason? We’ve got a lot of smokescreens coming out of Houston at the moment.

Right now, it sounds like Green, Jalen Suggs and Mobley are all in the mix at No. 2. Mobley would likely be third in the hierarchy of likelihoods with a trepidation pairing him next to Christian Wood. Green slots in here at No. 2 this week because there are a lot of people who believe he’s the second-best prospect in the draft. And he might be. Green projects as a high-level scorer, and he has a star quality about him.

Green might be the best way to make the fan base forget this team is in rebuilding mode. He’s incredibly athletic and uber-exciting, and he’s going to put on a show plenty of nights. We could easily see a rookie campaign like we just saw in Minnesota with Anthony Edwards. Some scouts and executives love the moxie of Green throwing up a blazing middle finger to the NCAA and forging a path through the G League instead. Here’s where it gets interesting and the smokescreens really come out.

According to league sources, it’s believed the Rockets have been fixated on Cunningham but don’t believe in offering up to Detroit what it would take to move into the top spot. That leaves them just deciding to pick the next best player at No. 2, right? Not necessarily. Houston could look to trade out of No. 2 in exchange for a more definite young star, i.e. someone already in the league. But league sources also have echoed sentiments that Houston could throw a lot of stuff out into the ether and see if it spurs any kind of rush toward offering the Rockets unbalanced trades in Houston’s favor. Confusion is the name of the game right now.

Is a trade possible? As mentioned above, there are a lot of smokescreens. A trade is believed to be a solid possibility, but I still think the Rockets just take their best prospect at No. 2.



3. Cleveland Cavaliers – Evan Mobley, C, USC, 20 years old
No change here, either.

Previous analysis: Evan Mobley as the guy for the Cleveland Cavaliers at No. 3 feels like a no-brainer. He’s going to be a really nice prospect to develop because of his versatility. Jarrett Allen’s presence on the Cavs makes the fit a little awkward, assuming they re-sign him in restricted free agency this summer, but the hope is that both guys can play a mix of perimeter ball and also hang around the basket. We’ve seen Allen flirt with a 3-point shot in the past. Mobley will likely need some significant development with his shooting to feel comfortable there.

The Cavs can also re-sign Allen and go with a rotation of him and Mobley for a couple of years until it’s obvious that Mobley needs to be the full-time guy. While his shooting is still a work in progress, the potential is obvious. He can hit little pop jumpers out of a pick situation, and eventually, that comfort should extend to 3-point range. Mobley’s going to be a monster in the pick-and-roll, both scoring around the hoop and making plays for others. Defensively, he’s going to be a difference-maker and maybe the rare rookie who is good right away at it. Mobley is a franchise big man in the making.

Is a trade possible? The Cavs do seem open to adding a piece that’s going to help them win now. Maybe that involves trading Collin Sexton or another young piece already on the roster to acquire a veteran who can get this team back into the playoff mix, but most likely, a trade would have to do with moving this pick. Koby Altman is aggressive, but I think they stick at No. 3.

4. Toronto Raptors – Jalen Suggs, G, Gonzaga, 20 years old
Previous pick: Jalen Green
Green going higher in this mock leaves Jalen Suggs as the best player available at this point. He would also be a great pick for the Raptors to end up with after receiving some lottery magic in their favor. Suggs is a natural leader on the court, and there isn’t a lot he can’t do well. His feel for the game is tremendous, and I would expect him to have a positive impact on a team right away.

Suggs to the Raptors gives them a lot of flexibility. The pressure to bring back Kyle Lowry in free agency is no longer there. With your next backcourt including Suggs and Fred VanVleet, it might make more sense for the Raptors to work out a sign-and-trade with Lowry and try to bring back some picks or a trade exception to use later. Maybe you get a nice role player in the mix? You can move forward with a core of Suggs, VanVleet, Pascal Siakam, Chris Boucher and OG Anunoby. A healthy, calmer season for the Raptors should see that core back in the playoffs, and it gives them their lead guard for the next 15 years.

Is a trade possible? We’re still waiting to see the status of Masai Ujiri and whether or not he moves on from Toronto. The Raptors are where this draft gets interesting. If they decide to blow it up, trade Siakam and try to get even younger, they could really make a huge splash here. Or they could move this pick for veteran help that vaults them into the playoffs. Most likely, they keep the pick and take the best player available.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#802 » by niQ » Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:51 am

So Clutch wrote:
DG88 wrote:
sofargone wrote:hes working out with Toronto 22nd
Read on Twitter

Also another guy to look at with one of our 2nd round picks.

I haven’t looked at the 2nds a lot. He looks better than Wieskamp. Better ball handler, PNR potential.


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Forget Weiskamp, Vrenz looks better than Giddey. Better 3 point shot and defense.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#803 » by Spida888 » Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:58 am

Mobley's passing is really good for a big man. I love his discipline on the defensive end of not fouling often while still providing really good D.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#804 » by Federalies » Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:02 am

PrinceAli wrote:

I think they are too but nothing in the article means much. We haven’t heard of us working out any of the top prospects yet either. There’s still 2.5 weeks to go so plenty of time for workouts and rumors. Just gotta wait and see


Josh Lewenberg (@JLew1050) Tweeted:
The Raptors started holding pre-draft workouts in Tampa this week. Most of the prospects they've had in so far are guys they could look at with their 2nd-round picks (46/47) or for the 905. Expect to see some of the more notable lottery names roll through next week.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#805 » by WuTang_CMB » Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:03 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#806 » by Spida888 » Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:06 am

niQ wrote:
So Clutch wrote:
DG88 wrote:Also another guy to look at with one of our 2nd round picks.

I haven’t looked at the 2nds a lot. He looks better than Wieskamp. Better ball handler, PNR potential.


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Forget Weiskamp, Vrenz looks better than Giddey. Better 3 point shot and defense.


First time I heard of this dude, and yeah he looks pretty good especially at that height. Is there a reason he's projected to be in 2nd round?
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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#807 » by Raps in 4 » Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:07 am

720 wrote:Out of the three players in Suggs, Green, and Mobley.

Who do you guys think has best chance to be an empty stats guy? Someone that puts up numbers but doesnt really impact winning.


Green. I can see him becoming another Lavine if a trash organization drafts him.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#808 » by So Clutch » Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:09 am

WuTang_OG wrote:Sam veceni new mock

Now has green going #2

Long before I joined this business in 2009, I was always poring over mocks and potential trades for the upcoming NBA Draft. I would even sit down and write out my own mock drafts on a legal pad. The scouting and projecting aspects of the draft do it for me. It’s a big reason why I wanted to join in on the mock drafting on The Athletic. Sam Vecenie and John Hollinger do a phenomenal job leading our draft coverage. Vecenie is a machine. I can tell you from personal experience that I can mention a random 10th man on a Summer League roster who has no chance of making the NBA, and Sam will have a full breakdown for me in the flow of the conversation. Hollinger is a mental database for all these players and drafts of the past. They boggle my mind on their level of retention on all these guys and the process.

What do I want to bring to this? My mock draft is here to add another voice, albeit a smaller one, to the proceedings. I’ve done deep dives on these guys throughout the past couple of months. I’ve studied the team needs and the makeup of the franchises moving forward. I’ve talked to scouts and front office people about the direction of these picks. So I want to bring in where I think teams should or would go with each selection, and whether or not a trade might be something we see.

In essence, I’m not trying to be the Chris Bosh to the LeBron James/Dwyane Wade of the Vecenie/Hollinger draft coverage. I’m good at being Mario Chalmers. A lot of irrational confidence. A voice that is louder than it should be. Constantly being yelled at by the bigger teammates because of something I did or said. Ultimately, I love the draft and the fun it brings. So let’s have fun in this mock draft space.

1. Detroit Pistons – Cade Cunningham, G/F, Oklahoma State, 19 years old
No change here from the previous mock.

Previous analysis: The Pistons are going to take Cade Cunningham. We can get into the thought exercises of whether or not it’s fine to consider someone else like USC big man Evan Mobley or guards Jalen Green or Jalen Suggs. Go ahead and give them all a look. They’re good players and really intriguing prospects. But let me ask you a question: Did you happen to see if any of those guys were Cade Cunningham? No, they’re not?

Then go with Cunningham. He’s 6-foot-8 with a 7-foot wingspan. He can create out of the pick-and-roll for everybody. He’s a fantastic catch-and-shoot guy, whether he’s defended or wide open. He can make every play imaginable. Compare him to Luka Doncic. Compare him to Grant Hill. Cunningham has the build and the potential for either. Maybe he’ll struggle to defend smaller guys, but he’s the top prospect and the only pick for Detroit.

Is a trade possible? It would take an unreasonable offer to get Troy Weaver to trade out of taking Cunningham. But hey, for the hell of it, James Edwards and many of our other beat writers went through eight potential deals!

2. Houston Rockets – Jalen Green, G, G League, 19 years old
Previous pick: Jalen Suggs
We’ve swapped out one Jalen for another, with Jalen Green being the pick at No. 2 this week. The reason? We’ve got a lot of smokescreens coming out of Houston at the moment.

Right now, it sounds like Green, Jalen Suggs and Mobley are all in the mix at No. 2. Mobley would likely be third in the hierarchy of likelihoods with a trepidation pairing him next to Christian Wood. Green slots in here at No. 2 this week because there are a lot of people who believe he’s the second-best prospect in the draft. And he might be. Green projects as a high-level scorer, and he has a star quality about him.

Green might be the best way to make the fan base forget this team is in rebuilding mode. He’s incredibly athletic and uber-exciting, and he’s going to put on a show plenty of nights. We could easily see a rookie campaign like we just saw in Minnesota with Anthony Edwards. Some scouts and executives love the moxie of Green throwing up a blazing middle finger to the NCAA and forging a path through the G League instead. Here’s where it gets interesting and the smokescreens really come out.

According to league sources, it’s believed the Rockets have been fixated on Cunningham but don’t believe in offering up to Detroit what it would take to move into the top spot. That leaves them just deciding to pick the next best player at No. 2, right? Not necessarily. Houston could look to trade out of No. 2 in exchange for a more definite young star, i.e. someone already in the league. But league sources also have echoed sentiments that Houston could throw a lot of stuff out into the ether and see if it spurs any kind of rush toward offering the Rockets unbalanced trades in Houston’s favor. Confusion is the name of the game right now.

Is a trade possible? As mentioned above, there are a lot of smokescreens. A trade is believed to be a solid possibility, but I still think the Rockets just take their best prospect at No. 2.



3. Cleveland Cavaliers – Evan Mobley, C, USC, 20 years old
No change here, either.

Previous analysis: Evan Mobley as the guy for the Cleveland Cavaliers at No. 3 feels like a no-brainer. He’s going to be a really nice prospect to develop because of his versatility. Jarrett Allen’s presence on the Cavs makes the fit a little awkward, assuming they re-sign him in restricted free agency this summer, but the hope is that both guys can play a mix of perimeter ball and also hang around the basket. We’ve seen Allen flirt with a 3-point shot in the past. Mobley will likely need some significant development with his shooting to feel comfortable there.

The Cavs can also re-sign Allen and go with a rotation of him and Mobley for a couple of years until it’s obvious that Mobley needs to be the full-time guy. While his shooting is still a work in progress, the potential is obvious. He can hit little pop jumpers out of a pick situation, and eventually, that comfort should extend to 3-point range. Mobley’s going to be a monster in the pick-and-roll, both scoring around the hoop and making plays for others. Defensively, he’s going to be a difference-maker and maybe the rare rookie who is good right away at it. Mobley is a franchise big man in the making.

Is a trade possible? The Cavs do seem open to adding a piece that’s going to help them win now. Maybe that involves trading Collin Sexton or another young piece already on the roster to acquire a veteran who can get this team back into the playoff mix, but most likely, a trade would have to do with moving this pick. Koby Altman is aggressive, but I think they stick at No. 3.

4. Toronto Raptors – Jalen Suggs, G, Gonzaga, 20 years old
Previous pick: Jalen Green
Green going higher in this mock leaves Jalen Suggs as the best player available at this point. He would also be a great pick for the Raptors to end up with after receiving some lottery magic in their favor. Suggs is a natural leader on the court, and there isn’t a lot he can’t do well. His feel for the game is tremendous, and I would expect him to have a positive impact on a team right away.

Suggs to the Raptors gives them a lot of flexibility. The pressure to bring back Kyle Lowry in free agency is no longer there. With your next backcourt including Suggs and Fred VanVleet, it might make more sense for the Raptors to work out a sign-and-trade with Lowry and try to bring back some picks or a trade exception to use later. Maybe you get a nice role player in the mix? You can move forward with a core of Suggs, VanVleet, Pascal Siakam, Chris Boucher and OG Anunoby. A healthy, calmer season for the Raptors should see that core back in the playoffs, and it gives them their lead guard for the next 15 years.

Is a trade possible? We’re still waiting to see the status of Masai Ujiri and whether or not he moves on from Toronto. The Raptors are where this draft gets interesting. If they decide to blow it up, trade Siakam and try to get even younger, they could really make a huge splash here. Or they could move this pick for veteran help that vaults them into the playoffs. Most likely, they keep the pick and take the best player available.

That’s Zach Harpers draft, not Vecenie.


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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#809 » by niQ » Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:10 am

RapsFan008 wrote:
niQ wrote:
So Clutch wrote:I haven’t looked at the 2nds a lot. He looks better than Wieskamp. Better ball handler, PNR potential.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums


Forget Weiskamp, Vrenz looks better than Giddey. Better 3 point shot and defense.


First time I heard of this dude, and yeah he looks pretty good especially at that height. Is there a reason he's projected to be in 2nd round?


My guess would be his age and level of competition. But I think he can still make high level reads regardless.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#810 » by WuTang_CMB » Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:15 am

niQ wrote:
RapsFan008 wrote:
niQ wrote:
Forget Weiskamp, Vrenz looks better than Giddey. Better 3 point shot and defense.


First time I heard of this dude, and yeah he looks pretty good especially at that height. Is there a reason he's projected to be in 2nd round?


My guess would be his age and level of competition. But I think he can still make high level reads regardless.


My guess is we would be lucky if Vrenz is there at 46
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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#811 » by mtcan » Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:15 am

Raps in 4 wrote:
720 wrote:Out of the three players in Suggs, Green, and Mobley.

Who do you guys think has best chance to be an empty stats guy? Someone that puts up numbers but doesnt really impact winning.


Green

Ya...Green as of right now...has 1 elite skill: scoring. In the wrong organization...he might not be called upon to improve on the other areas like defence and passing.

Suggs and Mobley might not be as elite a shot maker as Green...but damn it if they don't have other skills that will keep them on the floor even when they aren't hitting shots.

That said...Green in Toronto would absolutely have a higher chance of improving on the other areas of his game whereas it might not be the case in Houston and Cleveland.

There's a reason why Vecenie and that other guy on those Youtube videos from the Atlantic were basically saying that Toronto would be the best place for all of those top 3/4 picks. They are raving about the situation in Toronto...and I hope it doesn't go unnoticed by the draftees as well...
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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#812 » by WuTang_CMB » Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:22 am

When it comes to Suggs, seems we always trying to pick holes in his game but never seem to get anywhere with it.

The only knock on his game is his shooting which isnt even bad and at 20 he has lots of time to get a legit shot.

He’s a stud PG and has it all. Playmakimg and defense and all the intangibles. Has raptors dna too.

If mobley is off, dont see how we pass on him
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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#813 » by DG88 » Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:32 am

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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#814 » by Reeko » Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:35 am

WuTang_OG wrote:When it comes to Suggs, seems we always trying to pick holes in his game but never seem to get anywhere with it.

The only knock on his game is his shooting which isnt even bad and at 20 he has lots of time to get a legit shot.

He’s a stud PG and has it all. Playmakimg and defense and all the intangibles. Has raptors dna too.

If mobley is off, dont see how we pass on him

I would actually say the biggest knock on his game is his handle, he has a high dribble, and his propensity to turn the ball over. I have no doubt that he can clean all of that up, shot included, before his rookie contract is up.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#815 » by WuTang_CMB » Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:56 am

Reeko wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:When it comes to Suggs, seems we always trying to pick holes in his game but never seem to get anywhere with it.

The only knock on his game is his shooting which isnt even bad and at 20 he has lots of time to get a legit shot.

He’s a stud PG and has it all. Playmakimg and defense and all the intangibles. Has raptors dna too.

If mobley is off, dont see how we pass on him

I would actually say the biggest knock on his game is his handle, he has a high dribble, and his propensity to turn the ball over. I have no doubt that he can clean all of that up, shot included, before his rookie contract is up.


His handle not that much of an issue imo. The biggest one is his shot but i always say if OG can become a shooter, shouldnt be any issue for Suggs especially with hos solid mechanics
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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#816 » by _MidNight_ » Sun Jul 11, 2021 2:07 am

I keep asking myself if 5+8 >>> 4th pick. Kuminga + Bouknight >> Suggs.

If we can find a way to get those two picks I'd do it in a heartbeat.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#817 » by Mark_83 » Sun Jul 11, 2021 2:08 am



I'm gonna keep plugging this guy. I hope we can get him in the second round or that he signs with us to bet on himself as a UDFA.
Really likeable and soft spoken kid. I think the 3pt shot and the shot blocking would play in the NBA now, but everything else he's gonna have to develop with the 905. This guy's 3 point shot is borderline unblockable though at 6'11 with a 7'8 wingspan and a high release.

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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#818 » by Mark_83 » Sun Jul 11, 2021 2:13 am

_MidNight_ wrote:I keep asking myself if 5+8 >>> 4th pick. Kuminga + Bouknight >> Suggs.

If we can find a way to get those two picks I'd do it in a heartbeat.

I'd go Barnes and Bouknight myself, but there's definitely appeal to such a trade. Bouknight might be the best pure scorer in the draft and his measurables are better than Suggs for a SG at 6'5 with a 6'8 wingspan.

Siakam
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Bouknight
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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#819 » by Son Goku 25 » Sun Jul 11, 2021 2:36 am

As each day passes I'm almost worried we don't pick up Suggs.

Knowing the Raptors and wanting 2 way players, I just don't see them passing on Suggs or Mobley if he becomes available.

Kuminga almost is a perfect fit for a modern day 3, can he put it all together though?

Suggs is literally a modern day PG and a leader who can work with anyone on our team and a perfect Lowry replacement + more.
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Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#820 » by bboyskinnylegs » Sun Jul 11, 2021 2:41 am

_MidNight_ wrote:I keep asking myself if 5+8 >>> 4th pick. Kuminga + Bouknight >> Suggs.

If we can find a way to get those two picks I'd do it in a heartbeat.

I can't see Orlando being that desperate to move up one spot that they'd add #8. I think it's more likely they offer that to Houston for #2. If they did offer it to us, sure I'd take it if Green/Mobley are gone at 4. Guarantee yourself one of Kuminga/Barnes, along with BPA at 8, where there will be a healthy mix of decent prospects. I think that probably puts us in a better position than if we just draft Suggs. Though I wouldn't be upset with that either if we believe in him enough to stay put.

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