Biiiiiiig 3 Payroll Coming... Trade Joe&DJ for Which Group?

[ecuhus1981]

Durant, Harden and Irving are all eligible for extensions this summer. They will all demand maximum extensions, and we will alienate them if we don't give them every penny.

For Durant, that's an additional 4 years and $198mil. Kevin will make $53mil in the 25-26 season, when he'll be 37 years old.

For Harden, it's an additional 3 years and $161mil. He'll make $56mil in 24-25, when James is 35yo.

Irving is slated for another 4 years and $182mil. 33yo Kyrie will make almost $49mil.

With those 3 on those deals, we will operate deep in the luxury tax for several years to come. The repeater tax penalties mean that 8-figure role players are not sustainable, even great ones like Joe. I will not go into a detailed explanation of the repeater tax here, but I will say that the Nets have the record for single-year luxury tax penalties, $91mil paid in 2014. That could be a pittance compared to our numbers over the course of the Big 3's extensions.

Golden State will probably break our record after this season, and they're a reason they've already ruled out re-signing Oubre. But we're going to break it again in 2023, since we will certainly be in the repeater tax and subject to larger dollar-for-dollar taxes. With even modest, below-market extensions for 2 of Claxton, Brown and Shamet, we could be paying $200mil in salary, and an additional $400mil in taxes! Even Steinbrenner would blush.

We can't afford to have deadwood like DeAndre on the payroll. His contact says $10mil, but his 22-23 salary alone will cost us $80mil in taxes as well to be our 15th man who is not allowed to play. It's gonna take significant positive assets to sweeten the pot, for another team to absorb him. The most logical choice is Harris, who is also on a large deal. He's worth his, but he's a luxury (no pun intended) that we cannot afford in the future. It will cost us more if we wait, and Marks has a habit of dealing early to prepare for the future.

ALL THAT SAID, we need to do a deal for win-now veterans on '22 expiring contracts. Here are several that I think benefit both sides. I know that this is not a reality that most of you want to embrace, but I how I've made a case for why this is necessary. If you had to, which of these would you choose, and why?

[MrDollarBills]

I would chose option 3 since those players all fill a need.

[Prokorov]

None of the above.

Buyout Jordan. move Harris next year if you dont win a title when he has less term and you can trade him for more value then diluting it with dumping DJ.

Also, i dont think we could get any of those packages anyhow. ESPECIALLY that portland and Denver Trio. they would require multiple firsts we dont have.

[haosmoove]

All three packages will improve our roster immensely. But like Prok mentioned, none of them are attainable without attaching assets we no longer own. These are nothing more than NBA2K trade, fun to think about but not realistic imo.

[Paradise]

Love Joe or hate him from his playoff performance but we won’t win a title next year or ever without a shooter like him on board.

I’d rather explore moving DJ and getting creative with our contracts to add more win now guys. I think we will land another all-star caliber guy on a buyout. We really got screwed losing LaMarcus Aldridge and we all knew it. We will need to replace that type of role even with a re-signed Blake, Jeff, Bruce. The rumored name would definitely be a useful addition and I can’t see it working without Joe.

If you know who I’m talking about, you know.

[CalamityX12]

I don't like getting older....

Can't fill the team with old n unathletic players

[gigantes]

Love Joe or hate him from his playoff performance but we won’t win a title next year or ever without a shooter like him on board.

I’d rather explore moving DJ and getting creative with our contracts to add more win now guys. I think we will land another all-star caliber guy on a buyout. We really got screwed losing LaMarcus Aldridge and we all knew it. We will need to replace that type of role even with a re-signed Blake, Jeff, Bruce. The rumored name would definitely be a useful addition and I can’t see it working without Joe.

If you know who I’m talking about, you know.

I'm continuedly astonished how anyone would "hate" Joe after he crushed it all season long, plus right in to the playoffs until he got run in to the ground by Nash.

If there's a more foolish, clueless stick of measurement, I'm not sure what that would actually be. Do you? Eh, don't answer that.

Personally, I think Joe's around a break-even NBA-level athlete (which is of course spectacular by most measures), but he's never going to be a Klay Thompson. Yet he's still a good-value player who keeps improving every offseason. And that's not nothing.

[ecuhus1981]

None of the above.

Buyout Jordan. move Harris next year if you dont win a title when he has less term and you can trade him for more value then diluting it with dumping DJ.

Buying out Jordan doesn't solve anything. He's not going to agree to a buyout for less than 90% of his remaining salary over the next 2 seasons. That's dead money on the books, which still count against the salary cap and luxury tax. Plus, you want to sign someone else to fill that 15th roster slot, so you end up exactly where you are or slightly above in penalties. Hanging onto a late pick or an expensive vet, just so you don't have to swallow your pride and admit you have an albatross contract, that's poor GM work.

Also, i dont think we could get any of those packages anyhow. ESPECIALLY that portland and Denver Trio. they would require multiple firsts we dont have.

Maybe, maybe not. Nurkic made a point in his post game interview after Denver eliminated them, to mention his dissatisfaction with their system. RoCo and Jones did not fit as they thought. Gordon didn't help Denver as much as they expected, and Barton had been injury prone. They could not big for us, that's why I want them. That doesn't mean they are out of our price range.

But since you feel they are, offer a different package. Don't cop out and say "don't trade anything", I want you to honestly suggest another trade package.

[ecuhus1981]

Love Joe or hate him from his playoff performance but we won’t win a title next year or ever without a shooter like him on board.

I’d rather explore moving DJ and getting creative with our contracts to add more win now guys. I think we will land another all-star caliber guy on a buyout. We really got screwed losing LaMarcus Aldridge and we all knew it. We will need to replace that type of role even with a re-signed Blake, Jeff, Bruce. The rumored name would definitely be a useful addition and I can’t see it working without Joe.

If you know who I’m talking about, you know.

We absolutely "can" win a title without Joe Harris. You're seriously telling me that Kevin, James and Kyrie have ZERO PERCENT CHANCE to run it all without Harris???? Cmon man, you can't honestly believe that.

He helps us, I don't hate him, and I'm not suggesting we offload him just for the sake of moving him. I'm saying we leverage his positive value, to position ourselves financially and support 3 gigantic salaries while we contend.

[ecuhus1981]

I feel like we're grossly overestimating how much help our Big 3 need, or how much that "help" should cost. We're also grossly UNDERestimating how quickly a contender can dismantle, under the weight of financial pressure. I can already see it coming: we hold Joe a year too long when we know the luxury tax ramifications will bite us, and end up doing Harden for pennies on the dollar to relieve cap. That's not the desired outcome, and we need to head it off at the pass.

If the lease on your speedboat is going to cause you to default on your mortgage, you give back the speedboat and keep your house.

[JoseRizal]

I'll go for option 3. Covington alone would instantly increase our perimeter D. Replace Joe with JJ Redick for the min.

[NyCeEvO]

None of the above.

Buyout Jordan. move Harris next year if you dont win a title when he has less term and you can trade him for more value then diluting it with dumping DJ.

Also, i dont think we could get any of those packages anyhow. ESPECIALLY that portland and Denver Trio. they would require multiple firsts we dont have.

Agreed.

1) DJ is a negative asset. No one will want him.

2) The Nets will not trade Harris, unless somehow they are getting a legitimate star player in return. Since I think it's basically impossible for us to trade for a star, I don't see Harris going anywhere.

[DarkXaero]

You guys are way too concerned about luxury tax when we really haven't seen an indication that Nets will look to make cost saving moves at the expense of hurting roster quality. Let it play out, it's Tsai's problem. If Joe Lacob can pay luxury/repeater tax all these years while being worth nowhere near Tsai, Tsai can do it too.

[ecuhus1981]

You guys are way too concerned about luxury tax when we really haven't seen an indication that Nets will look to make cost saving moves at the expense of hurting roster quality. Let it play out, it's Tsai's problem. If Joe Lacob can pay luxury/repeater tax all these years while being worth nowhere near Tsai, Tsai can do it too.

It's a matter of scale, and of status.

Lacob didn't have to pay the repeater tax until the Warriors had already bagged their rings. Tsai is going to have to plan now for paying the repeater tax. And while Lacob has paid $51mil in 2018 for his repeater tax bill, I cannot stress this enough, we're easily, easily looking at $400mil in luxury tax payments in both 2023 and 2024.

Having 3 guys making North of $47mil per season is going to spike our payroll to unprecedented levels. You cannot compare it to Miami, Cleveland or any other superteam. We'll be paying orders of magnitude more taxes in pursuit of a championship, possibly before we even get one. Even if your owner has more money than the law should allow, paying through the nose without winning would splinter a potential Dynasty before it has a chance to flourish. I love Joe, I love all of our guys, but I'm not letting sentimentality for any of them spoil our chance at sports immortality.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Dude who cares how much Joe Tsai has to pay. Hes one of the richest men in the world and this pandemic has made him far richer.

He needs to be willing to pay those bills if he wants us to win Championships.

I do think having 10 million in dead money sucks though. So I'm fine with giving up an asset to move Jordan. It was stupid of KD/Kyrie to bring him here in the first place.

I would move Harris but not to save money. Only to get a better defensive player back. We can always find a shooter through the draft or FA. Reddick is basically a lock to sign here if we want him.

[JRoy]

POR has zero interest in that deal.

[DarkXaero]

You guys are way too concerned about luxury tax when we really haven't seen an indication that Nets will look to make cost saving moves at the expense of hurting roster quality. Let it play out, it's Tsai's problem. If Joe Lacob can pay luxury/repeater tax all these years while being worth nowhere near Tsai, Tsai can do it too.

It's a matter of scale, and of status.

Lacob didn't have to pay the repeater tax until the Warriors had already bagged their rings. Tsai is going to have to plan now for paying the repeater tax. And while Lacob has paid $51mil in 2018 for his repeater tax bill, I cannot stress this enough, we're easily, easily looking at $400mil in luxury tax payments in both 2023 and 2024.

Having 3 guys making North of $47mil per season is going to spike our payroll to unprecedented levels. You cannot compare it to Miami, Cleveland or any other superteam. We'll be paying orders of magnitude more taxes in pursuit of a championship, possibly before we even get one. Even if your owner has more money than the law should allow, paying through the nose without winning would splinter a potential Dynasty before it has a chance to flourish. I love Joe, I love all of our guys, but I'm not letting sentimentality for any of them spoil our chance at sports immortality.

I'm not worried about what's going to happen in 2023 and 2024 right now. And btw, Warriors paid $147 mill in luxury tax this year for a team that didn't even make the playoffs.

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/warriors-luxury-tax-bill-far-outpaces-every-team-nba-season

And that luxury tax bill for them is projected to get much higher next season. Again, Lacob is barely a billionaire, while Tsai is worth 10x as much as Lacob. Last offseason, we had all the panic about not being able to re-sign Joe Harris due to luxury tax or having to make significant cost saving moves to re-sign him. In the end, none of that mattered, and we actually re-signed Joe to a very high paying contract.

[HardenGoat]

Tsai has the money and the opportunity to improve the roster. You build on what you have to shore up depth and fill your holes. We have a real need for a center and a wing. The easiest way to dismantle a contender is to shed salary like Fertitta. I think Tsai will do everything he can to win now. And for that we should be grateful.

[ecuhus1981]

Tsai has the money and the opportunity to improve the roster. You build on what you have to shore up depth and fill your holes. We have a real need for a center and a wing. The easiest way to dismantle a contender is to shed salary like Fertitta. I think Tsai will do everything he can to win now. And for that we should be grateful.

I don't think a comparison to Fertitta is valid. Houston would not even touch the luxury tax. I'm taking about avoiding all-time record luxury taxes.

Look, it's not my money. I'm not saying Tsai won't spend. But any owner has a limit. When we start spending $2 in taxes for every $1 in player contracts, I think that any owner would pull the plug. After all, other contenders can compete at half the cost, and no GM has unlimited resources with which to work. Smart front office work demands shrewd roster building around the Big 3, not profligate spending.

[Prokorov]

Tsai has the money and the opportunity to improve the roster. You build on what you have to shore up depth and fill your holes. We have a real need for a center and a wing. The easiest way to dismantle a contender is to shed salary like Fertitta. I think Tsai will do everything he can to win now. And for that we should be grateful.

I don't think a comparison to Fertitta is valid. Houston would not even touch the luxury tax. I'm taking about avoiding all-time record luxury taxes.

Look, it's not my money. I'm not saying Tsai won't spend. But any owner has a limit. When we start spending $2 in taxes for every $1 in player contracts, I think that any owner would pull the plug. After all, other contenders can compete at half the cost, and no GM has unlimited resources with which to work. Smart front office work demands shrewd roster building around the Big 3, not profligate spending.

Yeah, this is spot on.

If we give dinwiddie what he says he wouldnt take and somehow still get him, your looking at 200M payroll with 200M tax bill.

I get Tsai is a billionaire, but paying almost half a billion a year doesnt seem realistic. i can see it for one year with an ultimatum marks needs to gut the team if we dont win a title. and thats where it gets tricky. you give marks 25M for spencer and he doesnt win a title then your looking to dump 60M in salary of jordan/harris/Spencer and likely need to pay to move those guys but you have no picks to attach to them.