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Tobias Harris Trade Thread

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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#41 » by youngcrev » Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:17 pm

Sportfan73 wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Unless everyone is concerned about a Tobias falloff with his massive contract, I don't really see a need to trade him. He wasn't really the problem.


In terms what went wrong in the playoffs I'd say he's reasonably far down the list, with Ben followed by Doc taking the blunt if that blame.

In terms of roster build and salary allocation, I do think he's a pretty big issue.

In the context of a Embiid/Simmons based team, that salary slot really should be going to a playmaking/scorer.

In the context of a Embiid+[good #2 that we get for Simmons], you're getting even less bang for your buck with him as a 3rd option next to 2 high usage players.

Like... Say they do somehow managed to get Dame for Simmons in our fantasy land... Tobias becomes what? A 15 ppg spot up shooter making about 38M a year on average over the next 3?


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I would completely disagree and say problems go

1. Doc



2aBench production (tobi played with this unit and showed he has no business being relied on to carry it)

2b Danny’s injury

3a Dwight and his horrible fit

3b Tobias’s shot selection and lack of 3 point volume. Say what you want but when he’s taking that many of our shots and not at 7+ 3pa a game we are **** COOKED





4. Ben’s lack of aggression


Come on, man.

When your second best player, who is the primary playmaker for the team, is terrified to touch the ball it's a massive issue and has ripple effects through the entire offense.

Ben was great defensively, and there are plenty other of things that you can point to that had they gone right, you could have overcame his play... But it was a complete meltdown for him offensively.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#42 » by 76ciology » Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:15 am

The problem is both Ben and Tobi, can’t take over the offense. If Biid goes into his lethargic moments which happens a lot compared to other superstars, who do we look for scoring?

I just dont get it like there’s like favoritism with fans inside the team.

Like when I say we need to explore trading Embiid, someone replied “but we also have to trade Ben first”

Then when someone here say we need to trade Tobi, someone would reply “but Tobi is not the problem, it’s Ben”

Are you guys more concern on your favorite players staying and being right over the team winning?

Haven’t you learned from your favoritism with Ben before?

It’s like the Nets and Bucks fans saying, “dont trade Dinwiddie or Bledsoe for Harden or Jrue because they’re not the problem”

You just do everything by all means necessary to be better.

This league is an arms race. The stubborn teams get left behind competing to get out of the second round year after year.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#43 » by Negrodamus » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:35 am

Is Harden or Jrue on the table for Tobi? When people on here say trading Tobi isn’t necessary, there’s way more nuance than him being their favorite player. Things like diminishing returns for a player like him on his current contract. Or he played exceptionally well for the role he was in for most of the playoffs and there’s an argument for continuity on the team/ leadership and great locker room presence.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#44 » by Monix » Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:40 pm

Neither Simmons nor Embiid is a leader - it's a big part of the problem

Anyone with any semblance of leadership quality can walk into the locker room and now they're in charge (Butler, Harris...even Howard and Green this year)

If your best player(s) isn't a leader, it can be a rough road
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#45 » by 76ciology » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:22 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Is Harden or Jrue on the table for Tobi? When people on here say trading Tobi isn’t necessary, there’s way more nuance than him being their favorite player. Things like diminishing returns for a player like him on his current contract. Or he played exceptionally well for the role he was in for most of the playoffs and there’s an argument for continuity on the team/ leadership and great locker room presence.


No. But you can possibly trade him for CJ or Sexton. If straight up is not possible then you add 28th 1st and/or Maxey.

Rozier is also a possibility.

Dont get me wrong. I like Tobi and you may count me as the guy who has least criticized him. But it’s just that our team needs a better scorer than Tobi.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#46 » by youngcrev » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:29 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Is Harden or Jrue on the table for Tobi? When people on here say trading Tobi isn’t necessary, there’s way more nuance than him being their favorite player. Things like diminishing returns for a player like him on his current contract. Or he played exceptionally well for the role he was in for most of the playoffs and there’s an argument for continuity on the team/ leadership and great locker room presence.


Just from a salary perspective, trading one of Simmons or Harris is likely necessary if they're looking for any meaningful change (with a few exceptions).

Maybe they make moves at the margins to get some minor upgrades and then hope for internal improvement and health... But I don't imagine the fan base, or Morey for that matter, would be all too comfortable with that course of action.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#47 » by Negrodamus » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:59 pm

76ciology wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Is Harden or Jrue on the table for Tobi? When people on here say trading Tobi isn’t necessary, there’s way more nuance than him being their favorite player. Things like diminishing returns for a player like him on his current contract. Or he played exceptionally well for the role he was in for most of the playoffs and there’s an argument for continuity on the team/ leadership and great locker room presence.


No. But you can possibly trade him for CJ or Sexton. If straight up is not possible then you add 28th 1st and/or Maxey.

Rozier is also a possibility.

Dont get me wrong. I like Tobi and you may count me as the guy who has least criticized him. But it’s just that our team needs a better scorer than Tobi.


I mean, that's purely speculation. He might be too expensive for his output to yield a 20+ ppg 22 year old guard or a guard that could be 25-30 ppg scorer if he wasn't paired with a better version of himself.

You're right, Rozier might be on the table (although he had a great year last year), but he's not Jrue or Harden, which was the confusing part of your post to me.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#48 » by Arsenal » Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:26 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Is Harden or Jrue on the table for Tobi? When people on here say trading Tobi isn’t necessary, there’s way more nuance than him being their favorite player. Things like diminishing returns for a player like him on his current contract. Or he played exceptionally well for the role he was in for most of the playoffs and there’s an argument for continuity on the team/ leadership and great locker room presence.


Tobi "played exceptionally well"? Really?

I expect a lot more impact for $40M/yr. Not someone puts up empty stats that don't impact winning, while being a terrible complement to our two best players.

Tobias has been and continues to be the biggest problem on the roster. You absolutely can't win anything with that bloated contract on the books.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#49 » by Negrodamus » Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:43 pm

Arsenal wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Is Harden or Jrue on the table for Tobi? When people on here say trading Tobi isn’t necessary, there’s way more nuance than him being their favorite player. Things like diminishing returns for a player like him on his current contract. Or he played exceptionally well for the role he was in for most of the playoffs and there’s an argument for continuity on the team/ leadership and great locker room presence.


Tobi "played exceptionally well"? Really?

I expect a lot more impact for $40M/yr. Not someone puts up empty stats that don't impact winning, while being a terrible complement to our two best players.

Tobias has been and continues to be the biggest problem on the roster. You absolutely can't win anything with that bloated contract on the books.


Yes, he played exceptionally well in the playoffs aside from a few games. His 22, 8, and 3 with solid advanced stats suggest this.

And once again, we need to divorce the contract from the player. It's not his fault he's being overpaid. That aside, his 21ppg were the reason we didn't lose to the Wiz or get swept by the Hawks. Those "empty stats" are what kept pace against the Hawks as our second star, Ben, shrunk into a corn cob. He wasn't the clutch, instant basket down the stretch player that you'd like from him, but that wasn't my expectation of him. To suggest that he's "the biggest problem on the roster" is a little insane to me. Tobias could, and would, fit with literally any other mid to major scorer in the league next to him in place of Ben. Ben can't fit with any other ball dominant player in the league on this team. On top of that, Tobias obviously put in the work to elevate his game to it's highest point this year despite being on this bloated contract. Ben, on the other hand, has regressed massively on offense this year. I'd rather the guy who works hard on this game to take it to another level. Ben is the most bloated contract on this team.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#50 » by FlyingArrow » Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:53 pm

Tobias for Love + Sexton might work, but it really depends on whether Simmons is traded and what we get for him. Sexton is a better scoring threat than any of our guards. Love is a stretch 4/5, who can provide spacing that Ben doesn't. In a vacuum, Tobias is better than Love right now, but Love provides better spacing for Embiid. So in the context of the Sixers, Tobias' advantage is minimized. Sexton would make up for it. But is Sexton worth getting if ownership isn't going to pay his upcoming huge contract?

If Love/Sexton were a really horrible pairing in CLE, then obviously we wouldn't want them playing here together either. Someone mentioned that, but I haven't paid attention to that sort of drama in other cities.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#51 » by Mik317 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:04 pm

Tobias is hurt and helped by the Ben flameout.
We are also so butt mad right now that we only remember the bad.

But Ben passing up that dunk overshadowed the fact that Tobias blew a bunch of layups too.

The reality is probably somewhere in between. Tobias was fine to even good but due to his contract thats not good enough...and also means that his contact and Ben is probably the only trade to be made as well.

man most of this teams issue come from the previous regimes decisions blowing up in their face lol
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#52 » by FlyingArrow » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:14 pm

Mik317 wrote:Tobias is hurt and helped by the Ben flameout.
We are also so butt mad right now that we only remember the bad.

But Ben passing up that dunk overshadowed the fact that Tobias blew a bunch of layups too.


It was a bunch. I didn't actually count so maybe it was only 2, but they were layups so every missed layup felt like 10.

man most of this teams issue come from the previous regimes decisions blowing up in their face lol


So bad.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#53 » by LeonJordanJr24 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:22 pm

Tobias is not good enough. We got sweep by boston with embiid and tobias tandem. He's paid like a max player and he doesnt produce like one. Hes a 4 or 3 option score and isnt great at anything. Hes not a allstar period.

I still believe Embiid and Simmons tandem with keep us a favor in the east as long as they are healthy and together. Tobias does not make us a big 3 at all.



The love and sexton trade is definitely interesting.
Giving us a stretch big compliment and a 25 ppg scorer in sexton.

They can have Shake as a filler 13ppg.



Embidd/ Reid
Love / 28
Simmons / thybulle
Curry / _____ / Joe
Sexton/ Maxey
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#54 » by FlyingArrow » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:37 pm

Love makes a lot of sense for us if ownership is willing to pay the $$$. He's obviously past his prime, but the combination of terrible contract and being a stretch big means his play style gives Joel space, and the contract means we would get extra value in the trade for absorbing the contract.

In the Sexton/Love for Tobias trade, the extra value is Sexton + trading away Tobias' contract. Tobias' contract is a bad contract but not as bad as Love's. Even if that's not the exact trade, if Simmons and/or Tobias go out, Love is a great fit here - assuming we also get lots of other value to make up for the terrible contract. Because we need extra value.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#55 » by Negrodamus » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:40 pm

Mik317 wrote:Tobias is hurt and helped by the Ben flameout.
We are also so butt mad right now that we only remember the bad.

But Ben passing up that dunk overshadowed the fact that Tobias blew a bunch of layups too.

The reality is probably somewhere in between. Tobias was fine to even good but due to his contract thats not good enough...and also means that his contact and Ben is probably the only trade to be made as well.

man most of this teams issue come from the previous regimes decisions blowing up in their face lol


I'm fine with people saying Tobias isn't good enough for his contract, but it can't be in the same sentence as trading him for CJ McCollum or Collin Sexton. It's absolute lunacy to think he sucks and is going to yield premium players especially on his contract. I'm not saying he's in the same tier as like-salaried players, but he wasn't the reason we blew the Hawks series. He did exactly what was expected of him: 20+ ppg with one stinker.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#56 » by the_process » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:43 pm

I stand by the fact that both teams would be well served in a Harris to Sacto for Barnes deal. Of course, how much salary Sacto is willing to eat or if they want dump Hield or Wright or something is a big part of it. And then is Sacto interested in Ben in addition?
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#57 » by the_process » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:58 pm

FlyingArrow wrote:
Mik317 wrote:Tobias is hurt and helped by the Ben flameout.
We are also so butt mad right now that we only remember the bad.

But Ben passing up that dunk overshadowed the fact that Tobias blew a bunch of layups too.


It was a bunch. I didn't actually count so maybe it was only 2, but they were layups so every missed layup felt like 10.

man most of this teams issue come from the previous regimes decisions blowing up in their face lol


So bad.


I cannot And1 this enough. Every time he dribbles in and thinks he wants to go strong but still avoids contact and gets his shot swatted feels like a damn heart attack in slow motion :lol:
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#58 » by Mik317 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:03 pm

As with probably most trades we can make. None of the guys will be better than who we trade....just got to hope they are better fits ala Seth and Danny (although Josh was hot ass this year...so maybe he just sucks)....but we will get back equally flawed guys. Tobias is fine. Scores 20 points consistently and got better defensively (another thing lost in that final game was the work he did on Trae on switches; staying down on fakes for example). BUT he doesn't get to the line, doesn't shoot 3s at a high clip, and has some of the worse vision alive lol. All things this team desperately needs....but also all things every team needs so he is a tough sell. This is why he has been on 80 teams.

BUT as stated there is a human element at play in which he seems to be the locker room guy that prevent Jo from smacking the **** out of people and Ben from melding into the wall...so there is some importance to that.

BUT BUT BUT as stated above that Boston series and the fact that he has his best games without Jo means it is hard to see those two as a good pair either. Jo and Ben to a lesser extent can co exist with a ballhandler...what does Tobias do when we get one? Lost in the Ben hates Jimmy stuff....did Tobias like playing with Jimmy?

IDK. **** sucks but I just want something to happen so I can be mad about it lol.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#59 » by yuuby » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:17 pm

Embiid and Simmons coexisting in a half court offense against any decent defense isn't possible.

Simmons is useless off ball in the half court if he isnt screening and rolling and for that to happen Embiid needs to space the floor. Embiid as a floor spacer is a waste of one of the best low post threats in NBA history.

If you look at a heat map of Simmons and Embiids shot chart and favorite spots on the floor you will see right away why the conflict exists.

Both players are centers in the halfcourt. You dont play two centers together in the modern NBA.

You can only get away with playing two centers if youre the bucks and you decide to turn your low post center into a SG on offense. The problem is Giannis is way better than Lopez so the sacrifice is justified.

Asking Embiid to sacrifice for Simmons is something that will never happen since he is way better and he was here first.

Trying to blame their bad fit against real defenses on Tobias or the lack of a ball handler is trying to avoid the hard questions.

A high usage low post big man and a rim running and driving big man will never be a good fit in the modern NBA.

Thats why we need to find a solution to the Embiid and Simmons problem before moving on to trading other productive players.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#60 » by Sportfan73 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:23 pm

the_process wrote:I stand by the fact that both teams would be well served in a Harris to Sacto for Barnes deal. Of course, how much salary Sacto is willing to eat or if they want dump Hield or Wright or something is a big part of it. And then is Sacto interested in Ben in addition?

I would do Tobias for Hield and Barnes. Or Tobias+ For that. I don’t think it solves half as much as sexton/love but I still would do it. Loves fit in the second unit with Ben would be legit outstanding. Like his outlet passing and what it does for transition offense plus his stretch 5 ability would be very worth it. Would start him but play him super low mins with the starters

Sexton 24/ maxey 24
Curry 32/ sexton 10/joe 6
Simmons 20/ furk 24/ joe 4
Love 12/Simmons 14/ Reed 22
Biid 32/ love 16

This is assuming Matisse goes to Cleveland as well.

Gaps to fill still on that team but you have shake/hill/28/and future firsts to do it. And you could resign Danny and make Kevin a full time bench player like

Sexton 24/maxey 24
Curry 32/sexton 10/ joe 6
Green 28/ Simmons 14/ joe 6
Simmons 20/ love 12/ Reed 16
Biid 32/ love 16

Don’t think we would reaign Danny and furk

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