Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0

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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#801 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:24 am

HartfordWhalers wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:I guess I'm the only one reading that Indy thing as a straight 13 for Wood offer?

I get that Indy already has surplus bigs, but that would make it easier to flip one, or more likely as a 3 teamer:
Wood to team X
Player from X to Indy
#13 to Houston


Maybe, but almost feel like this would lead us to have to deal 2 centers instead of 1.


I don't see how it relates.

Example trade:
Wood to Portland
Covington to Indy,
13 and Lamb to Houston

Indy gets more win now talent, Portland bolsters their big man depth, and Houston keeps rebuilding.


I’m sorry. When you said 13 straight for Wood offer, that sunk in and the rest didn’t. I read it as if you were dealing Wood to Indy for the 13. My bad. Totally misread it.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#802 » by babyjax13 » Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:32 pm

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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#803 » by eminence » Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:38 pm

I like Murray/White quite a lot, think they'd be good gets for a lot of different teams.

I know I'd love either in either GS or Utah (Utah makes more sense if Conley is out obviously).
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Joel Embiid Trade Value 

Post#804 » by yuuby » Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:48 pm

What is the best package the 76ers can get for Embiid if they decide to sell high this summer?

- He has 2 years 64 million left on his deal for his age 28 and 29 seasons

- He has foot concerns from an injury that kept him out for 2 full seasons.

- He has a bad left knee that has caused him to miss multiple games in each season since he got a meniscus tear that he got a meniscus trim surgery on.

- He likely now has a bad right knee due to the meniscus injury that he just suffered recently which he probably needs to get fixed and will likely have knee problems on.

- He has back issues since his NCAA days that caused him to miss multiple games each season.

- He misses 20+ games a season even when he is healthy.

- His game doesn't translate well in the playoffs either due to style or injury or both.

- He finished 2nd in MVP voting and was the 2nd team all nba center for the 3rd time in 4 years.

- He expects to get paid the supermax by the 76ers this summer (4 years 190+ million) or the regular max in 2023 by another team (5 years 205 million with bird rights or 4 years 165 million with cap space by non bird team).


Here is Embiid's playoff resume:

2018 lost 4-1 to the wounded Celtics where he was outplayed by Rozier, Tatum and Horford.

2019 lost 4-3 to the Raptors where he was outplayed by Butler, Siakam and Kawhi. Where he chocked (2-7, 11pts) in a pivotal game 4 when we could have gone up 3-1 and blamed it on a tummy ache.

2020 lost 4-0 to the Celtics where he was outplayed by Tatum, Brown and Kemba and was a turnover machine even though Simmons didn't play. He had a 0.3 assist to turnover ratio in this series.

2021 lost 4-3 to the Hawks where he was outplayed by a no defense midget who some said was going to be exposed in the playoffs. Embiid chocked in a pivotal game 4 (0-12 in the second half and missed the game winner) where we could have gone up 3-1.

Embiid is just as fraudulent in the playoffs against real teams (aka not the 2018 Heat, 2019 Nets and 2021 Wizards) as Simmons is yet gets non of the blame.


My hope is the Paul George package OKC got which was a promising rookie + 4 unprotected picks + a lottery protected pick + 2 swaps.

That probably wont happen now but in general I think his trade value is at Fox and Shai levels due to injury concerns and the fact that he isnt a top 10 player in the playoffs and was never the best player in a playoff series outside of playing joke teams in the first round (2018 heat, 2019 nets, 2021 wizards).
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Re: Joel Embiid Trade Value 

Post#805 » by Texas Chuck » Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:53 pm

yuuby wrote:
Spoiler:
What is the best package the 76ers can get for Embiid if they decide to sell high this summer?

- He has 2 years 64 million left on his deal for his age 28 and 29 seasons

- He has foot concerns from an injury that kept him out for 2 full seasons.

- He has a bad left knee that has caused him to miss multiple games in each season since he got a meniscus tear that he got a meniscus trim surgery on.

- He likely now has a bad right knee due to the meniscus injury that he just suffered recently which he probably needs to get fixed and will likely have knee problems on.

- He has back issues since his NCAA days that caused him to miss multiple games each season.

- He misses 20+ games a season even when he is healthy.

- His game doesn't translate well in the playoffs either due to style or injury or both.

- He finished 2nd in MVP voting and was the 2nd team all nba center for the 3rd time in 4 years.

- He expects to get paid the supermax by the 76ers this summer (4 years 190+ million) or the regular max in 2023 by another team (5 years 205 million with bird rights or 4 years 165 million with cap space by non bird team).


Here is Embiid's playoff resume:

2018 lost 4-1 to the wounded Celtics where he was outplayed by Rozier, Tatum and Horford.

2019 lost 4-3 to the Raptors where he was outplayed by Butler, Siakam and Kawhi. Where he chocked (2-7, 11pts) in a pivotal game 4 when we could have gone up 3-1 and blamed it on a tummy ache.

2020 lost 4-0 to the Celtics where he was outplayed by Tatum, Brown and Kemba and was a turnover machine even though Simmons didn't play. He had a 0.3 assist to turnover ratio in this series.

2021 lost 4-3 to the Hawks where he was outplayed by a no defense midget who some said was going to be exposed in the playoffs. Embiid chocked in a pivotal game 4 (0-12 in the second half and missed the game winner) where we could have gone up 3-1.

Embiid is just as fraudulent in the playoffs against real teams (aka not the 2018 Heat, 2019 Nets and 2021 Wizards) as Simmons is yet gets non of the blame.


My hope is the Paul George package OKC got which was a promising rookie + 4 unprotected picks + a lottery protected pick + 2 swaps.

That probably wont happen now but in general I think his trade value is at Fox and Shai levels due to injury concerns and the fact that he isnt a top 10 player in the playoffs and was never the best player in a playoff series outside of playing joke teams in the first round (2018 heat, 2019 nets, 2021 wizards).


FYI moved your OP into the General Thread. Not preventing you from exploring the topic, but he's not getting traded and there is so much narrative in the OP that I'm afraid a whole thread of this would just get ugly. You seem to have some agenda against him which makes for a terrible thread on this board, I'm afraid.

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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#806 » by zimpy27 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:11 am

Can a GM with another teams future picks actively work to make that team worse?

How far can they go?

Could they reward a team with picks to facilitate a trade or could they overpay an FA?
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#807 » by Patsfan1081 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:21 am

VCfor3 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Who's brave enough to post the Brown trade here?


I'm not brave enough. Plus I suck at deals with good players. I know my niche with the role player market and mostly stick to it.

But somebody(ies) will for sure. And frankly Brown is a pretty good starting point for a Beal package so its not that crazy. And if Washington didn't want Brown, you could absolutely get any number of 3rd teams willing to load up plenty more futures to take Brown as a consolation prize.

I kinda lean towards a third team which is what makes a potential deal interesting. There is definitely the possibility that Washington retools around Brown, but I wonder if they'd prefer a rebuilding package instead in order to not be on a potential 2-3 year clock. -

-Memphis would probably open up the entire war chest, but I expect us to be outbid. Lots of youth and picks but not the blue chip asset to get Washington excited.
-Golden State likely offers Wiseman, #7, and more unless the injury scares them off with their shortish window. Still Brown with Green, Klay, and Curry would be awesome. Poole provides some bench firepower and maybe JTA (or a tax payer MLE big during the regular season) could be the last starter.
-OKC has the largest asset stockpile. Maybe they part with a sizeable portion of it to pair SGA with a young All Star.
-I think Brown fits with Zion better than Ingram, or very well with both Ingram and Zion. I think they offer their trove of picks, Hayes, and Bledsoe as almost-expiring-filler initially but would consider an Ingram based deal if necessary. I don't know how much they'd actually add to Ingram though and Ingram would have to go to a 4th team so would get complicated. The receiving team would have to prefer Ingram over Brown or at least value them equally.
-NYK is always a possibility with their youth, picks, and desire for stars.
-I could see Toronto considering a #4+ for Brown deal. Brown is proven and would fit with FVV/OG/Siakam. Suggs or whoever is available at #4 likely needs time to develop and has the potential to be a bust. Sure they give up on a potentially higher ceiling young player, but could be worth it for them.
-SAC would make a play but I don't see them making it happen.
-MIN would love to use Brown as a PF with Edwards and KAT to elevate the defense, but without including one of those two I think it would be tough. Do they offer up a Harden draft pick package? For their sake I hope not but it'll take something drastic like that. McDaniels is a nice potential trade piece. They have additional youth as well but of lesser appeal.
-Miami probably offers a Herro based package but I don't see it getting it done
-Denver could make a fairly strong offer with Porter or Murray but I don't know if they would or not
-Atlanta has a bevy of youth they could offer in a potential deal plus their picks and the OKC likely-fake 1st.
-Detroit isn't trading #1, has their 1st tied up for a long time, and probably shouldn't go after Brown. I don't see them winning out, but Bey is a solid young player to base a package around.
-Charlotte would love to get Ball a running mate like Brown. Is Bridges, PJ, and some assortment of their picks enough to win the Brown sweepstakes?
-Chicago's package based around White feels too weak with their outstanding owed picks
-Cleveland would love to have Brown but would they part with #3+? I personally would keep the pick if I was them. Is there a Sexton plus picks package that would entice Washington enough to take it over other offers?
-Houston is just starting their rebuild so I think they'd hold off on Brown and keep their picks
-Orlando is also too early in their rebuild to pony up for Brown

The other teams don't seem like potential candidates due to various reasons such as lacking assets.


Moving Brown for assets seems like a good way to run Tatum out of town quick. Have their been rumors that Boston is shopping him? They just gave up a first so they would have possible cap flexibility next summer, I would think they would be looking for a all star to pair with the two Jays. I mean unless it’s a swap for another established player I don’t see moving him making a lot of sense. I would think they look to move off of Smart first.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#808 » by VCfor3 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:14 pm

Patsfan1081 wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
I'm not brave enough. Plus I suck at deals with good players. I know my niche with the role player market and mostly stick to it.

But somebody(ies) will for sure. And frankly Brown is a pretty good starting point for a Beal package so its not that crazy. And if Washington didn't want Brown, you could absolutely get any number of 3rd teams willing to load up plenty more futures to take Brown as a consolation prize.

I kinda lean towards a third team which is what makes a potential deal interesting. There is definitely the possibility that Washington retools around Brown, but I wonder if they'd prefer a rebuilding package instead in order to not be on a potential 2-3 year clock. -

-Memphis would probably open up the entire war chest, but I expect us to be outbid. Lots of youth and picks but not the blue chip asset to get Washington excited.
-Golden State likely offers Wiseman, #7, and more unless the injury scares them off with their shortish window. Still Brown with Green, Klay, and Curry would be awesome. Poole provides some bench firepower and maybe JTA (or a tax payer MLE big during the regular season) could be the last starter.
-OKC has the largest asset stockpile. Maybe they part with a sizeable portion of it to pair SGA with a young All Star.
-I think Brown fits with Zion better than Ingram, or very well with both Ingram and Zion. I think they offer their trove of picks, Hayes, and Bledsoe as almost-expiring-filler initially but would consider an Ingram based deal if necessary. I don't know how much they'd actually add to Ingram though and Ingram would have to go to a 4th team so would get complicated. The receiving team would have to prefer Ingram over Brown or at least value them equally.
-NYK is always a possibility with their youth, picks, and desire for stars.
-I could see Toronto considering a #4+ for Brown deal. Brown is proven and would fit with FVV/OG/Siakam. Suggs or whoever is available at #4 likely needs time to develop and has the potential to be a bust. Sure they give up on a potentially higher ceiling young player, but could be worth it for them.
-SAC would make a play but I don't see them making it happen.
-MIN would love to use Brown as a PF with Edwards and KAT to elevate the defense, but without including one of those two I think it would be tough. Do they offer up a Harden draft pick package? For their sake I hope not but it'll take something drastic like that. McDaniels is a nice potential trade piece. They have additional youth as well but of lesser appeal.
-Miami probably offers a Herro based package but I don't see it getting it done
-Denver could make a fairly strong offer with Porter or Murray but I don't know if they would or not
-Atlanta has a bevy of youth they could offer in a potential deal plus their picks and the OKC likely-fake 1st.
-Detroit isn't trading #1, has their 1st tied up for a long time, and probably shouldn't go after Brown. I don't see them winning out, but Bey is a solid young player to base a package around.
-Charlotte would love to get Ball a running mate like Brown. Is Bridges, PJ, and some assortment of their picks enough to win the Brown sweepstakes?
-Chicago's package based around White feels too weak with their outstanding owed picks
-Cleveland would love to have Brown but would they part with #3+? I personally would keep the pick if I was them. Is there a Sexton plus picks package that would entice Washington enough to take it over other offers?
-Houston is just starting their rebuild so I think they'd hold off on Brown and keep their picks
-Orlando is also too early in their rebuild to pony up for Brown

The other teams don't seem like potential candidates due to various reasons such as lacking assets.


Moving Brown for assets seems like a good way to run Tatum out of town quick. Have their been rumors that Boston is shopping him? They just gave up a first so they would have possible cap flexibility next summer, I would think they would be looking for a all star to pair with the two Jays. I mean unless it’s a swap for another established player I don’t see moving him making a lot of sense. I would think they look to move off of Smart first.

Those trades were in the scenario Portland traded Dame to Boston for Brown+ and Portland wanted to send Brown out for a better rebuilding package since without Dame they may want to tank which Brown would hurt plus they likely would lose Brown in a few years when his contract is up. The above trades may also kind of apply to a potential Beal for Brown type trade if Boston prefers Beal to Brown.

I don't see really any scenario where Boston moves Brown for picks and prospects right now.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#809 » by Revenged25 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:22 pm

zimpy27 wrote:Can a GM with another teams future picks actively work to make that team worse?

How far can they go?

Could they reward a team with picks to facilitate a trade or could they overpay an FA?


I mean they can try to overpay a teams FAs/targets but I think working with another team could be collusion. Maybe they could accept another teams salary so that a team is able to go after a FA if they didn't want to overpay themselves, but that's about it really.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#810 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:42 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=21
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#811 » by ThatBoyNick » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:18 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21


I think we are making a strong bid on being the new trashiest team in the league since Tilman taking over
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#812 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:06 pm

Source I'm not sold on is saying Willie Green is going to be the Pels new coach.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#813 » by eminence » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:26 pm

Taxpayer MLE targets for GS?

Curry
Klay/Poole
Wiggins/JTA
Dray
Looney

Look like the likely guys in the lineup. I'd say 50/50 on whether Wiseman/draft picks are there to fill it out or there are vets to fill out the rotation they've been traded for. Long odds on an Oubre return I'm guessing.

What guys would like that~6M a year deal? Will certainly need another big one way or another and another guard, especially with Klay coming back slow.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#814 » by HornetJail » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:42 pm

eminence wrote:Taxpayer MLE targets for GS?

Curry
Klay/Poole
Wiggins/JTA
Dray
Looney

Look like the likely guys in the lineup. I'd say 50/50 on whether Wiseman/draft picks are there to fill it out or there are vets to fill out the rotation they've been traded for. Long odds on an Oubre return I'm guessing.

What guys would like that~6M a year deal? Will certainly need another big one way or another and another guard, especially with Klay coming back slow.

Cody Zeller would be an interesting option. Particularly if Wiseman has to be used in a trade.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#815 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:44 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:Source I'm not sold on is saying Willie Green is going to be the Pels new coach.


Were you on the group chat with Woj and Shams? They both tweeted out something relatively identical around this time.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#816 » by Smirk » Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:23 am

Texas Chuck wrote:Source I'm not sold on is saying Willie Green is going to be the Pels new coach.


Worst kept secret in Nola for about a week now.

The real question will be lead assistant.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#817 » by NYG » Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:06 am

Am I the only one that sees this off-season as the first since 2015 where a top 25 player doesn't change teams? Who are the top 25 players even right now?
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#818 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:12 am

NYG wrote:Am I the only one that sees this off-season as the first since 2015 where a top 25 player doesn't change teams? Who are the top 25 players even right now?


Lowry likely moves and he's right around that level. Paul could move. There is usually something a bit surprising. Ben Simmons is maybe in play for the first time. Dame rumblings. I think we should watch for Towns. I wouldn't rule out Jimmy Butler. It's just on a board like this nobody is open to the idea of the star on their team moving so it gets dismissed pretty quickly.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#819 » by NYG » Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:20 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
NYG wrote:Am I the only one that sees this off-season as the first since 2015 where a top 25 player doesn't change teams? Who are the top 25 players even right now?


Lowry likely moves and he's right around that level. Paul could move. There is usually something a bit surprising. Ben Simmons is maybe in play for the first time. Dame rumblings. I think we should watch for Towns. I wouldn't rule out Jimmy Butler. It's just on a board like this nobody is open to the idea of the star on their team moving so it gets dismissed pretty quickly.


One of the "There is usually something a bit surprising." candidates for me is Steph Curry.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#820 » by Godaddycurse » Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:25 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
NYG wrote:Am I the only one that sees this off-season as the first since 2015 where a top 25 player doesn't change teams? Who are the top 25 players even right now?


Lowry likely moves and he's right around that level. Paul could move. There is usually something a bit surprising. Ben Simmons is maybe in play for the first time. Dame rumblings. I think we should watch for Towns. I wouldn't rule out Jimmy Butler. It's just on a board like this nobody is open to the idea of the star on their team moving so it gets dismissed pretty quickly.


Beal likely moves if he doesn't sign extension

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