ImageImageImageImageImage

Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!!

Moderators: 7 Footer, Morris_Shatford, DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX

User avatar
WuTang_OG
RealGM
Posts: 40,862
And1: 51,304
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1161 » by WuTang_OG » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:01 pm

PhilBlackson wrote:
PrinceAli wrote:https://theathletic.com/2700614/2021/07/12/rockets-trade-possibilities-who-says-no-in-potential-deals-for-no-2-pick-in-nba-draft/?source=user_shared_article
Offer: Raptors trade the No. 4 and No. 46 picks in the 2021 NBA Draft and a 2023 lottery-protected first-round pick for No. 2

Raptors beat writer Blake Murphy: The Raptors kicking in a mid-second and a future first is about the going rate for a move like this, in general. The lottery protection shouldn’t be a big deal, either, as the Raptors project to be within their competitive window when the pick conveys. For the Rockets, there’s the added benefit here of a Toronto offer tipping their hand. I think if the Raptors were to move up, it’d be to snag Mobley, which would mean Houston could be reasonably assured of still landing one of the elite guards in the class.

Deal or no deal?

We might actually have something here.

The good thing about dealing with another team picking in the top four is the benefit of still selecting a great prospect. I think what it would come down to would be Houston hedging their bets on their Raptors intel, believing that Toronto would take Evan Mobley. Doing so would leave the Cleveland Cavaliers the choice of Green or Suggs. I have to believe Houston would be content with either. If the Cavs take Green, the Rockets get Suggs, a bonafide playmaker with lockdown potential at the next level. He would be the heir to Wall’s throne. On top of that, Houston can use the 46th pick and package with their back-to-back selections at 23 and 24 to move even higher up to double dip, if that was the objective.

This deal is contingent on trusting Toronto taking Mobley, but I could see Houston agreeing to something like this.


I only wish Murphy knew wth he's talking about lol

"Have to believe Houston would be content with either"

He has to actually provide substance behind it outside of "replace John Wall" as a reason to also be ok with getting Suggs lol...the Rockets don't give a damn about Wall, the trade was done to get WAS pick. The idea that HOU would be making decisions based on replacing anything to do with him is laughable.

I just wish it was substantiated by some rumors that the Rockets actually like Suggs so therefore they'd be ok with it. Because I know I would be ok with that deal especially with lottery protection because I have no doubts we'd turn Mobley into a monster and as such he'd drastically change our team ceiling long term.


It's so rare for teams to swap picks in the top 5.. Every owner/gm/fan base falls in love with their prospect and with it being in the top 5, theres always the alure of it being the next great young player.

And the risk of not choosing that player (in this case HOU with Green), and him becoming elite, will be considered to be a fireable offence. Thats why these teams take their guy and call it a day
vulture
Head Coach
Posts: 6,935
And1: 5,960
Joined: Oct 04, 2002
Location: At the Border

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1162 » by vulture » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:03 pm

I just can't ever picture Sengun ever being in a playoff rotation unless everyone gets injured.
User avatar
Bruin
RealGM
Posts: 25,200
And1: 39,669
Joined: Mar 11, 2018
       

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1163 » by Bruin » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:04 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:
PhilBlackson wrote:
PrinceAli wrote:https://theathletic.com/2700614/2021/07/12/rockets-trade-possibilities-who-says-no-in-potential-deals-for-no-2-pick-in-nba-draft/?source=user_shared_article


I only wish Murphy knew wth he's talking about lol

"Have to believe Houston would be content with either"

He has to actually provide substance behind it outside of "replace John Wall" as a reason to also be ok with getting Suggs lol...the Rockets don't give a damn about Wall, the trade was done to get WAS pick. The idea that HOU would be making decisions based on replacing anything to do with him is laughable.

I just wish it was substantiated by some rumors that the Rockets actually like Suggs so therefore they'd be ok with it. Because I know I would be ok with that deal especially with lottery protection because I have no doubts we'd turn Mobley into a monster and as such he'd drastically change our team ceiling long term.


It's so rare for teams to swap picks in the top 5.. Every owner/gm/fan base falls in love with their prospect and with it being in the top 5, theres always the alure of it being the next great young player.

And the risk of not choosing that player (in this case HOU with Green), and him becoming elite, will be considered to be a fireable offence. Thats why these teams take their guy and call it a day

Well it technically has happened twice in the past 4 drafts (17,18)
Image
User avatar
WuTang_OG
RealGM
Posts: 40,862
And1: 51,304
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1164 » by WuTang_OG » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:10 pm

PrinceAli wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
PhilBlackson wrote:
I only wish Murphy knew wth he's talking about lol

"Have to believe Houston would be content with either"

He has to actually provide substance behind it outside of "replace John Wall" as a reason to also be ok with getting Suggs lol...the Rockets don't give a damn about Wall, the trade was done to get WAS pick. The idea that HOU would be making decisions based on replacing anything to do with him is laughable.

I just wish it was substantiated by some rumors that the Rockets actually like Suggs so therefore they'd be ok with it. Because I know I would be ok with that deal especially with lottery protection because I have no doubts we'd turn Mobley into a monster and as such he'd drastically change our team ceiling long term.


It's so rare for teams to swap picks in the top 5.. Every owner/gm/fan base falls in love with their prospect and with it being in the top 5, theres always the alure of it being the next great young player.

And the risk of not choosing that player (in this case HOU with Green), and him becoming elite, will be considered to be a fireable offence. Thats why these teams take their guy and call it a day

Well it technically has happened twice in the past 4 drafts (17,18)


Sure but historically it rarely happens and in 2017 you had BC over paying and jumping the gun. That wont happen here with HOU and Detroit. And i dont think CLE does anything when its all said and done.
Yallbecrazy
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,759
And1: 5,430
Joined: Nov 25, 2013

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1165 » by Yallbecrazy » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:16 pm

vulture wrote:I just can't ever picture Sengun ever being in a playoff rotation unless everyone gets injured.



Kevin Love was the #2/#3 on a championship winning team who was drafted 5th overall and Sengun is taller, longer, more athletic, and put up far superior stats across the board against tougher competition at a younger age. (more assists/fewer turnovers/ more points/ rebounds/Fg%/FT%, steals, blocks)
User avatar
720
RealGM
Posts: 33,062
And1: 67,651
Joined: Nov 01, 2012
Location: Malton
     

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1166 » by 720 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:26 pm

Yallbecrazy wrote:
vulture wrote:I just can't ever picture Sengun ever being in a playoff rotation unless everyone gets injured.



Kevin Love was the #2/#3 on a championship winning team who was drafted 5th overall and Sengun is taller, longer, more athletic, and put up far superior stats across the board against tougher competition at a younger age. (more assists/fewer turnovers/ more points/ rebounds/Fg%/FT%, steals, blocks)

Can he shoot threes and I thought his height is under question? Didn’t his combine measurements or something show he’s shorter than his original listed height?
Image
Image
bboyskinnylegs
RealGM
Posts: 43,684
And1: 26,130
Joined: Jul 11, 2009

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1167 » by bboyskinnylegs » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:55 pm

HolyMage110 wrote:Not gonna lie, the more I watch Barnes, the more intrigued I get. Dude can be a stud with our development program

I am intrigued by him but I don't think I would have the guts to take him at 4 over whoever might be available there - there's a lot of skill projection involved with him vs proven ability with Green/Mobley/Suggs. That said, if our front office believes in him strongly enough to take him at 4... they were also the ones that were really trying to trade into the draft and grab Giannis, so maybe they see something there. Would definitely be interested if we can grab a second lotto pick to grab him or Kuminga though.
Yallbecrazy
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,759
And1: 5,430
Joined: Nov 25, 2013

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1168 » by Yallbecrazy » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:56 pm

720 wrote:
Yallbecrazy wrote:
vulture wrote:I just can't ever picture Sengun ever being in a playoff rotation unless everyone gets injured.



Kevin Love was the #2/#3 on a championship winning team who was drafted 5th overall and Sengun is taller, longer, more athletic, and put up far superior stats across the board against tougher competition at a younger age. (more assists/fewer turnovers/ more points/ rebounds/Fg%/FT%, steals, blocks)

Can he shoot threes and I thought his height is under question? Didn’t his combine measurements or something show he’s shorter than his original listed height?


He didn't have a combine height as he was playing in the Olympic qualifiers for Turkey. He's 6'9.5 to 6'10 with about a 7'0 - 7'1 wingspan. The issue lies in his standing reach as his shoulder height is comparable to someone who is 6'7 to 6'8 as he has a long neck.

He should be able to shoot 3s
DG88
Forum Mod - Raptors
Forum Mod - Raptors
Posts: 39,146
And1: 29,944
Joined: Jul 26, 2008
Location: You don't know my location but I know yours
     

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1169 » by DG88 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:57 pm

720 wrote:
Yallbecrazy wrote:
vulture wrote:I just can't ever picture Sengun ever being in a playoff rotation unless everyone gets injured.



Kevin Love was the #2/#3 on a championship winning team who was drafted 5th overall and Sengun is taller, longer, more athletic, and put up far superior stats across the board against tougher competition at a younger age. (more assists/fewer turnovers/ more points/ rebounds/Fg%/FT%, steals, blocks)

Can he shoot threes and I thought his height is under question? Didn’t his combine measurements or something show he’s shorter than his original listed height?

Segun is probably the same size as love without the 3 point shot. He can't defend in space which limits his effectiveness. He's be put in spread PnR actions until he's subbed off the floor. For as gifted as he is offensively he has some glaring limitations on defense. Even guys who are as athletic as NBA guards are making him spin in circles. I cannot see him as a star 5 man but as a scoring bench big that I can see.
Image
mtcan
RealGM
Posts: 27,585
And1: 23,967
Joined: May 19, 2001

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1170 » by mtcan » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:57 pm

Yallbecrazy wrote:
720 wrote:
Yallbecrazy wrote:

Kevin Love was the #2/#3 on a championship winning team who was drafted 5th overall and Sengun is taller, longer, more athletic, and put up far superior stats across the board against tougher competition at a younger age. (more assists/fewer turnovers/ more points/ rebounds/Fg%/FT%, steals, blocks)

Can he shoot threes and I thought his height is under question? Didn’t his combine measurements or something show he’s shorter than his original listed height?


He didn't have a combine height as he was playing in the Olympic qualifiers for Turkey. He's 6'9.5 to 6'10 with about a 7'0 - 7'1 wingspan. The issue lies in his standing reach as his shoulder height is comparable to someone who is 6'7 to 6'8 as he has a long neck.

He should be able to shoot 3s

...he also has the hair of an alpaca...that accounts for like 3 inches.
User avatar
PhilBlackson
RealGM
Posts: 31,772
And1: 46,517
Joined: May 02, 2017
Location: No Wastemans Land
     

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1171 » by PhilBlackson » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:30 pm

bboyskinnylegs wrote:
HolyMage110 wrote:Not gonna lie, the more I watch Barnes, the more intrigued I get. Dude can be a stud with our development program

I am intrigued by him but I don't think I would have the guts to take him at 4 over whoever might be available there - there's a lot of skill projection involved with him vs proven ability with Green/Mobley/Suggs. That said, if our front office believes in him strongly enough to take him at 4... they were also the ones that were really trying to trade into the draft and grab Giannis, so maybe they see something there. Would definitely be interested if we can grab a second lotto pick to grab him or Kuminga though.


I keep saying it but I think this board keeps downplaying that its a legit possibility they do take Barnes...

There's several reasons to believe it's a legit possibility...A. him & Suggs have the same strengths & weaknesses except one guy is 6'9 with a 7'3 wingspan and not only guard guards like Suggs but both forward positions and has a big frame that looks like he's definitely gonna fill out to be one the stronger players at his position that he'll probably handle most 5s B. Is coming arguably more skilled than both OG and Pascal despite being younger entering the league, has to be exciting to think what level could they take him C. His game prob closest resembles Giannis who ofc we were in hot pursuit of, although (currently) shorter (doesn't look done growing to me) looks to be a more gifted passer AND better looking shooting mechanics coming into the league D. admittedly not a big point but makes Siakam replaceable with many of the same skills, Pascal has had multiple fallouts with Nurse and Raps could've easily squashed trade rumors saying he isn't going anywhere buuuut they didn't (again doesn't mean that much but just saying)...

Raps help him put it all together, I'd argue his ceiling is higher than Suggs (no short joke intended). Just saying I really, really wouldn't rule it out.
>>>THENOTORIOUSBI3<<< :guitar: *INGRAM*ALLSTARSEASON*
Image
Names of who OG will be better than Shaedon: DelAbbott, ThaCynic, pingpongrac, Los_29, OakleyDokley
ciueli
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,807
And1: 2,776
Joined: Apr 11, 2007

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1172 » by ciueli » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:03 pm

I really don't see us taking Barnes with #4. I think he will be a great player and I could absolutely see Orlando taking him over Kuminga, but his lack of 3 point shooting is what kills it for me, there's no guarantee he can be a reliable perimeter player and there are only so many guys who you can have on your team that don't space the floor.
Ackshun
General Manager
Posts: 8,870
And1: 4,761
Joined: Jul 24, 2006

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1173 » by Ackshun » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:05 pm

tecumseh18
RealGM
Posts: 18,932
And1: 11,184
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Location: Big green house
 

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1174 » by tecumseh18 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:13 pm

DG88 wrote: I cannot see him as a star 5 man but as a scoring bench big that I can see.


So ... a shorter Frank Kaminsky without a 3-point shot? And Frank was drafted fairly high, too. Although being shorter, Sengun seems to be a better finisher around the rim than Frank.

But still, no thanks.
User avatar
DatHomieYouHaTe
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,683
And1: 3,998
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
       

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1175 » by DatHomieYouHaTe » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:15 pm

I believe Barnes will be the Raptors pick. It's their type of guy and i think they like Flynn as the future PG and don't want another small backcourt.
Image
User avatar
hyper316
RealGM
Posts: 14,743
And1: 10,032
Joined: Dec 23, 2006
   

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1176 » by hyper316 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:24 pm

DatHomieYouHaTe wrote:I believe Barnes will be the Raptors pick. It's their type of guy and i think they like Flynn as the future PG and don't want another small backcourt.


You are contradicting yourself

FVV and Flynn is definition of small backcourt
User avatar
HolyMage110
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,497
And1: 3,492
Joined: Jun 11, 2012
         

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1177 » by HolyMage110 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:29 pm

Barnes can legit play PG for us. His jumpshot is not broken and can easily be worked on. Not opposed to trading down to snab hi
Image
will
RealGM
Posts: 52,083
And1: 50,740
Joined: Jan 08, 2006
Location: Pat's Homestyle Jamaican Restaurant. Shouts to Sheryl's Caribbean Cuisine
Contact:
         

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1178 » by will » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:30 pm

Lets go Jalen Suggs, son!
ciueli
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,807
And1: 2,776
Joined: Apr 11, 2007

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1179 » by ciueli » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:36 pm

When you have a guy like Suggs available at your draft pick you shouldn't really be concerned about what that means for Flynn.
User avatar
JShuttlesworth
RealGM
Posts: 10,182
And1: 13,344
Joined: Dec 09, 2013
Location: Toronto
 

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1180 » by JShuttlesworth » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:37 pm

Just over 2 weeks away, I'm excited to see how things play out.

I'm still holding onto hope for Mobley

Return to Toronto Raptors