The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition

[homecourtloss]

this may be the okc fan in me talking but i am always surprised that so many people have dursnt as default best player these years

he literally has 1 healthy playoffs run in 3 years where he went evenly (arguably outplayed slightly) with giannis

the other years he was unhealthy and his team made the finals without him for half of that run or missed the year altogher

lebron actually has as many full series played the past 3 years , kawhi has more, curry has as many and he is a dude who missed the playoffs in 2021 and got hurt all of 2020

and i think all of those 3 have similar or better series in that period

why do so many people default to durant as best player? i unironically think he has a better case in 2017-2018 when his team was absurd.
2019-2021 is a total crapshoot period

I believe it has to do with the way he plays, i.e., ostensibly unstoppable scorer who can raise up against any defender and “get his own shot” even though LeBron scores on unassisted baskets a much higher rate.

The same scrutiny James gets is not given to a Durant. After that game 5, the phrase “played like peak Jordan” were thrown about with the phrase meaning to all “the best you can be.” LeBron on a worse team playing against a better team, i.e., the 2018 Warriors, had an even more incredible scoring game played at a slower pace but was given none of the accolades nor encomiums Durant got but was actual critiqued. Durant was forgiven for his 0-6 OT because he “was tired from carrying the team,” something James was never given the benefit of the doubt about.

Durant played inefficiently with Kyrie and Harden off the court and created poor overall team offense, but that was never brought up. When the series James essentially won by himself were brought up, they were all dismissed as scrub teams regardless if they were 60 win teams being swept or 59 win teams with a +7 SRS.

[falcolombardi]

this may be the okc fan in me talking but i am always surprised that so many people have dursnt as default best player these years

he literally has 1 healthy playoffs run in 3 years where he went evenly (arguably outplayed slightly) with giannis

the other years he was unhealthy and his team made the finals without him for half of that run or missed the year altogher

lebron actually has as many full series played the past 3 years , kawhi has more, curry has as many and he is a dude who missed the playoffs in 2021 and got hurt all of 2020

and i think all of those 3 have similar or better series in that period

why do so many people default to durant as best player? i unironically think he has a better case in 2017-2018 when his team was absurd.
2019-2021 is a total crapshoot period

I believe it has to do with the way he plays, i.e., ostensibly unstoppable scorer who can raise up against any defender and “get his own shot” even though LeBron scores on unassisted baskets a much higher rate.

The same scrutiny James gets is not given to a Durant. After that game 5, the phrase “played like peak Jordan” were thrown about with the phrase meaning to all “the best you can be.” LeBron on a worse team playing against a better team, i.e., the 2018 Warriors, had an even more incredible scoring game played at a slower pace but was given none of the accolades nor encomiums Durant got but was actual critiqued. Durant was forgiven for his 0-6 OT because he “was tired from carrying the team,” something James was never given the benefit of the doubt about.

Durant played inefficiently with Kyrie and Harden off the court and created poor overall team offense, but that was never brought up. When the series James essentially won by himself were brought up, they were all dismissed as scrub teams regardless if they were 60 win teams being swept or 59 win teams with a +7 SRS.

scoring + aesthetics. durant is known as the best scorer (questionable but is the reputation) and right now is scoring more/better thsn older lebron
and even when they scored roughly the same, dursnt has the jumpshot scoring thst looks more skillful and "beatiful" while lebron is seen as a passer or a lay up/dunker


scorers/shooters are seen as unstopabble and "clutch" and valued more highly

doesnt help that for most people team stats about how you make the whole offense great fall in the real of nerd **** and the people who in charles barkley words "had their lunch stolen in P.E class"
plus minus stats may as well be wizardry

[CKRT]

I know it's the off season but the constant whining about how other players are viewed vs LeBron is getting to be too much. Who cares.

[kayess]

I know it's the off season but the constant whining about how other players are viewed vs LeBron is getting to be too much. Who cares.

Ngl, Durant's game 5 suddenly being up there with LeBron's best games was a godawful hot take that tilted me, but if Giannis continues playing like this I won't mind the comparisons, because that's a guy with a legitimate trajectory to overtake Bron.

[SeniorWalker]

LeBron gets hate for his political stances because he's not genuine about them. He does whatever his corporate overlords tell him to do for his brand building and because in the west it is very easy to take non-stances like "fk trump" and "equality", etc. And many guys do, LeBron is just the biggest one but his legions of fans believe him and that's the travesty.

I have no issue with him or any athlete having a voice or opinion but I'm not going to take them seriously just because they have one. And LeBron has not shown really even a modicum of careful thought on political issues, he really knows zilch and it's really a joke that people compare him to Ali, who was far more serious and informed, and risked it all in a truly hostile environment which popular media was not supportive of him and many of his peers, the total opposite of today.

I think LeBron has gotten a lot of hate. I don't think all of it is fair all of the time but a hell of a lot of it is deserved. His team put a target on his back with a lot of things he said and did and he has to live with that. To his credit, LeBron has had an incredible career and managed to keep his image (with a lot of help) very clean. Good for him, honestly.

Lol you have to be delusional to think he gets hatred because he's not genuine about them. Dude donated money to help people vote, put pressure on the NBA to show more support for BLM, paid for underprivileged kids going to college... Most of the hate is 100% because conservative nutjobs can't take it.

"Not shown really even a modicum of careful thought" LMAO, do you really need "careful thought" on the topics he's supported? Absolutely mind-bogglingly bad hot take.

The only legitimate reason to hate on James for his political stances are his take on the China (absolutely godawful, he should be crucified on that alone), and his inconsistency (supporting BLM but being quiet on SJAX's outspoken support of an anti-semite). On the latter, sure you can argue that he's not obliged to comment on everything, but that was in the wake of the George Floyd stuff and would have sent a powerful message. It's clear he didn't want to step on some toes.

And no, NOT good on him for being able to keep a clean image if that's not what he deserves. All the good and bad have to be taken together, just like Ali. Guy ragged on Joe Frazier and claimed he represented the unheard part of America; imagined doing that when you're a middle-class kid talking to someone who grew up in abject poverty, in **** sharecropper county. But it's ok, it was for "promotion" LMAO. Also made some extremely sexist comments, had a relationship with a 16 year-old (as a 30+ year old), was a philanderer, and had some reaaally questionable views on race (as well as questionable alignments). He's almost the opposite of LeBron, people view his legacy without much criticism, while LeBron gets hated on for (mostly) the wrong things viz his political views, as people have forgotten about his China comments already.

Yes, you do need careful thought on issues LeBron has supported. Issues surrounding the black community are complex and grandstanding and saying you support BLM doesn't mean a fking thing. BLM matter isn't even for the black community, they're a predatory organization and it's why quite a number of their individual chapters have abandoned the movement, because they realized it for the **** it really is. They've even been exposed for fraud, though that won't make the news of course. They preach about removing fathers from the home and being purveyors of chaos, which is literally the tactics used against us during slavery and during the era of the prison industrial complex....which hasn't ended. How anyone could know black history and support that garbage is beyond me but you're probably not a black person so I know you have no idea, are confused and scared of being on "the wrong side of history" as many liberal Caucasians tend to be. But the organization is supported by globalist forces, so it gets defended in the media and brain washed folks know no better.

LeBron goes around acting like he's Malcolm x for social credit, which is why he carries that book with him to press conferences for the dummies who worship him even though he's not read a page of it and can't articulate any of the problems discussed by Malcolm x. People like LeBron and many of his peers who act like they're for the black community but really push to serve other interests and are some of our worst enemies.

And Ive noticed a lot of Caucasian liberals push for "voting rights" in the black community, as if that's any semblance of a fix. Both sides of the political aisle have repeatedly fked our community since the civil rights era and continue to do so. Voting has never, and will never change our condition, which is why wealth and ownership has not grown for us in 50 years, is expected to slide going forward, and our incarceration rates are far higher than they were during the civil rights movements, among many other issues. I'm glad a lot of the community has figured it out at least, so we can defend ourselves from more sales pitches about how to fix our community from the people who are hugely responsible for destroying it.

I wasn't going to respond but I loathe people like you. You get under my skin more than I want to admit. I'll just end this here, not going to bring this up again. LeBron is a all-time great athlete and I like many things he has done but he's not a genuine champion of black social justice. He is using it to gain clout, like a number of other athletes today but to an even greater degree.

[TheGOATRises007]

I know it's the off season but the constant whining about how other players are viewed vs LeBron is getting to be too much. Who cares.

Ngl, Durant's game 5 suddenly being up there with LeBron's best games was a godawful hot take that tilted me, but if Giannis continues playing like this I won't mind the comparisons, because that's a guy with a legitimate trajectory to overtake Bron.

Durant's game 5 is up there with anyone's best games.

I don't know why some of you refuse to acknowledge how special that singular game was.

[Statlanta]

I don't know if this fits any thread but....

Read on Twitter

[falcolombardi]

I know it's the off season but the constant whining about how other players are viewed vs LeBron is getting to be too much. Who cares.

Ngl, Durant's game 5 suddenly being up there with LeBron's best games was a godawful hot take that tilted me, but if Giannis continues playing like this I won't mind the comparisons, because that's a guy with a legitimate trajectory to overtake Bron.

Durant's game 5 is up there with anyone's best games.

I don't know why some of you refuse to acknowledge how special that singular game was.

game 5 was incredible , i am more saying the overall series is overated and dursnt last 3 years as a whole are a bit overated when considering actual availability

he has played 3 full series: his bucks series, the clippers series in 2019 (8th seed*) and the boston series (injured 7th seed) in 3 years. as well as most of a rockets series that warriors finished off without him

one of those was a underperforming (vs clippers) or at least not a impressive showing
another was a good but expected victory against a injured middlinh team (vs celtics)
another was a strong series against a strong team (bucks)

this last one is praised heavily for durant carrying the injured nets on the back of his scoring, which is true but ignores the actual nets offense was pretty bad, he carried it but not to particularly great or even good heights.
if westbrook has carried the same injured offense and got the same team results it would have been called empty stats

as impressive as the scoring was, it was still omly in moderate efficiency and without great playmaking to compensate, the offense of the team as a whole was weak despute durant volume scoring

overall a good but not great series, we have seen a lot of better offensive carryjobs that are less valued cause they didnt have as much raw points per game

so in that sense i think dursnt and his bucks series (and last 3 years as a whole ) are overated a fair bit

the game 5 was historical, and the game 7 was fantastic but the series was more than those 2 games

[kayess]

Spoiler:

LeBron gets hate for his political stances because he's not genuine about them. He does whatever his corporate overlords tell him to do for his brand building and because in the west it is very easy to take non-stances like "fk trump" and "equality", etc. And many guys do, LeBron is just the biggest one but his legions of fans believe him and that's the travesty.

I have no issue with him or any athlete having a voice or opinion but I'm not going to take them seriously just because they have one. And LeBron has not shown really even a modicum of careful thought on political issues, he really knows zilch and it's really a joke that people compare him to Ali, who was far more serious and informed, and risked it all in a truly hostile environment which popular media was not supportive of him and many of his peers, the total opposite of today.

I think LeBron has gotten a lot of hate. I don't think all of it is fair all of the time but a hell of a lot of it is deserved. His team put a target on his back with a lot of things he said and did and he has to live with that. To his credit, LeBron has had an incredible career and managed to keep his image (with a lot of help) very clean. Good for him, honestly.

Lol you have to be delusional to think he gets hatred because he's not genuine about them. Dude donated money to help people vote, put pressure on the NBA to show more support for BLM, paid for underprivileged kids going to college... Most of the hate is 100% because conservative nutjobs can't take it.

"Not shown really even a modicum of careful thought" LMAO, do you really need "careful thought" on the topics he's supported? Absolutely mind-bogglingly bad hot take.

The only legitimate reason to hate on James for his political stances are his take on the China (absolutely godawful, he should be crucified on that alone), and his inconsistency (supporting BLM but being quiet on SJAX's outspoken support of an anti-semite). On the latter, sure you can argue that he's not obliged to comment on everything, but that was in the wake of the George Floyd stuff and would have sent a powerful message. It's clear he didn't want to step on some toes.

And no, NOT good on him for being able to keep a clean image if that's not what he deserves. All the good and bad have to be taken together, just like Ali. Guy ragged on Joe Frazier and claimed he represented the unheard part of America; imagined doing that when you're a middle-class kid talking to someone who grew up in abject poverty, in **** sharecropper county. But it's ok, it was for "promotion" LMAO. Also made some extremely sexist comments, had a relationship with a 16 year-old (as a 30+ year old), was a philanderer, and had some reaaally questionable views on race (as well as questionable alignments). He's almost the opposite of LeBron, people view his legacy without much criticism, while LeBron gets hated on for (mostly) the wrong things viz his political views, as people have forgotten about his China comments already.

Yes, you do need careful thought on issues LeBron has supported. Issues surrounding the black community are complex and grandstanding and saying you support BLM doesn't mean a fking thing. BLM matter isn't even for the black community, they're a predatory organization and it's why quite a number of their individual chapters have abandoned the movement, because they realized it for the **** it really is. They've even been exposed for fraud, though that won't make the news of course. They preach about removing fathers from the home and being purveyors of chaos, which is literally the tactics used against us during slavery and during the era of the prison industrial complex....which hasn't ended. How anyone could know black history and support that garbage is beyond me but you're probably not a black person so I know you have no idea, are confused and scared of being on "the wrong side of history" as many liberal Caucasians tend to be. But the organization is supported by globalist forces, so it gets defended in the media and brain washed folks know no better.

LeBron goes around acting like he's Malcolm x for social credit, which is why he carries that book with him to press conferences for the dummies who worship him even though he's not read a page of it and can't articulate any of the problems discussed by Malcolm x. People like LeBron and many of his peers who act like they're for the black community but really push to serve other interests and are some of our worst enemies.

And Ive noticed a lot of Caucasian liberals push for "voting rights" in the black community, as if that's any semblance of a fix. Both sides of the political aisle have repeatedly fked our community since the civil rights era and continue to do so. Voting has never, and will never change our condition, which is why wealth and ownership has not grown for us in 50 years, is expected to slide going forward, and our incarceration rates are far higher than they were during the civil rights movements, among many other issues. I'm glad a lot of the community has figured it out at least, so we can defend ourselves from more sales pitches about how to fix our community from the people who are hugely responsible for destroying it.

I wasn't going to respond but I loathe people like you. You get under my skin more than I want to admit. I'll just end this here, not going to bring this up again. LeBron is a all-time great athlete and I like many things he has done but he's not a genuine champion of black social justice. He is using it to gain clout, like a number of other athletes today but to an even greater degree.

First off, let me apologize, I was way too aggressive. My main point is that there's tons of legitimate things to criticize James on (and really, the China stuff is enough for me to not take him seriously overall, but recognize he can still do good just because of his enormous wallet and influence), but I just didn't think being genuine was one of them.

If everything you said is true, then attack him for being ineffective and stupid, not for being not genuine. I'm not delusional enough to think LeBron is some hero; again his stance on China alone makes me think (probably irrationally) that he's probably done net negative good for the world because he won't speak up against China, because it affects his already insanely considerable net worth. But it's just really disingenuous to me to think that a guy who grew up in poverty, is black, and would not have had a shot at upward ability were it not for once-in-a-lifetime genetics, is getting hate for him not being genuine (especially when a ton of that hate is from conservative nut jobs who derisively call even the simplest, most harmless of gestures "virtue signalling"). He could be misguided, or utterly ineffective, or whatever about supporting those causes, but there's just nothing to imply he's not genuine about it.

Your stance on voting sounds like it's coming from a place of hopelessness. I don't think voting alone will ever solve any issue, but how is being properly informed, and being able to vote NOT going to be part of the solution? I obviously don't have studies to prove it, but unless you really think institutions in America are so fundamentally broken that voting will never help I just don't see how this isn't the case

[thebigbird]

I know it's the off season but the constant whining about how other players are viewed vs LeBron is getting to be too much. Who cares.

It’s better than talking about space jam, whether the Lakers will give Schroder $100 million, or, god forbid, signing Carmelo Anthony.

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[falcolombardi]

lets just agree that lebron the person and whatever he does or says off court is a different matter to lebron the basketball player and whatever he does on or related to a basketball court?

some people dislike for lebron basketball wise becomes dislike into lebron the person (many peopke probably hate lebron for basketball then use offcourt stuff to bring hi down)

while for others may be the opposite, dislike of lebron the person makes then biased against lebron the player and more likely to diminish his on court accomplishments

and what applies to disliking can apply to liking. someone who likes lebron as a person may be biased in how favor basketball wise or viceversa

the point being that on court and off court are completely different thinghs and one should not cause bias against the other. basketball opinions shouldnt mold personal opinions on another person nor viceversa

we should remember to keep those spheres separated when we talk about basketball players

[PistolPeteJR]

Guys come on. There is absolutely no way the Lakers can get Lonzo Ball or Zach Lavine.

I wonder if someone like Malik Beasley is possible; I think that’s more realistic, but still very unlikely.

Yeah Lavine and Ball are out of reach. I don't think they have enough for Brogdon or FVV(if Raps go in full rebuild) either. The best realistic and relatively cheap target is Patty Mills. But knowing Pelinka, he's gonna overpay for Hield in the begining of the free agency

I really hope not. That said, I'd like to see the Lakers package Schroeder, Harrell, Kuz and a 1st and see what kind of two-player package that can net them. Ideally, a PG and a wing.

Is a deal with Cleveland for Sexton and Nance available for something like that, realistically speaking?

A few days after I posted this, Sexton is now reportedly “very available” this offseason. Do the Lakers have a realistic package they can throw at Cleveland to get him? Maybe some kind of package in which they take on Kevin Love too?

[PistolPeteJR]

I know it's the off season but the constant whining about how other players are viewed vs LeBron is getting to be too much. Who cares.

Ngl, Durant's game 5 suddenly being up there with LeBron's best games was a godawful hot take that tilted me, but if Giannis continues playing like this I won't mind the comparisons, because that's a guy with a legitimate trajectory to overtake Bron.

Durant's game 5 is up there with anyone's best games.

I don't know why some of you refuse to acknowledge how special that singular game was.

I agree, it was a terrific game. What’s annoying certain people about it is how it’s being used as some kind of stepping stone to “justify” Durant as being better or the closest thing to Jordan since ever.

[homecourtloss]

Imagine Lebron on this US team and the things that would be said

[falcolombardi]

you dont need to imagine it, the **** on already exists for 2004 bronze even though he barely played in the first place

only lebron would simultaneously be blamed for failure and legacy running defeats at 19 and at 36 lol, majority of players wouldnt even be in the nba at those times

[thebigbird]

you dont need to imagine it, the **** on already exists for 2004 bronze even though he barely played in the first place

only lebron would simultaneously be blamed for failure and legacy running defeats at 19 and at 36 lol, majority of players wouldnt even be in the nba at those times

Facts. I’ve seen certain posters on the general board say that LeBron couldn’t win a gold medal for team USA and “needed Kobe to save the day in 2008” because team USA won bronze with a 19 year old LeBron playing 11.5 mpg, lol. Just goes to show the different standard he’s held to. Kevin Durant leads the team to consecutive losses to Nigeria and Australia and there’s barely a peep.

[LikeABosh]

Wiretap says Lakers looking to play LeBron at the 4 and AD at the 5 more. Great

I'm not crazy about Lonzo Ball, but I think he's proven himself to be a reliable 3 pt shooter the last 2 years

[homecourtloss]

Wiretap says Lakers looking to play LeBron at the 4 and AD at the 5 more. Great

I'm not crazy about Lonzo Ball, but I think he's proven himself to be a reliable 3 pt shooter the last 2 years

Lonzo would be a great get.

AD at the 5 and LeBron at the 4 has been a +17 NET death lineup that’s rarely used due to AD not playing the 5. Smh

[falcolombardi]

i saw a discussion somewhere else about what if 2019 raptors played 2020 lakers in a finals

the argument basically was that raptors would "punish" (whatever that means) the soft davis with their phisicality (as nebulous as it gets of a concept)

and then force lebron to beat them with open jump shots like he is ben simmons or somethingh

it was not a great argument but it got me thinking what that matchup would look like

do you think last year lakers beat kawhi raptors?

[trickshot]

Wiretap says Lakers looking to play LeBron at the 4 and AD at the 5 more. Great

I'm not crazy about Lonzo Ball, but I think he's proven himself to be a reliable 3 pt shooter the last 2 years

Imo he isn't as reliable shooting as his numbers suggest. Towards the ending of the last 2 seasons he has had months where he has been scorching hot, all credit due there but before then had also gone several weeks/months shooting awfully. It's not yet a natural or consistent shooting stroke, a team would have to endure weeks of below average shooting at the pointguard position, something the Lakers are trying to move away from. They want reliable shooting and spacing. Between Caruso, Schroder and THT it's already tough enough having to re-sign 3 unnatural shooting rotation guards.