Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!!

[Yallbecrazy]

There's a clear top 3 for me,
1: Mobley
2: Sengun
3: Suggs
Gap
4: Barnes, Cade, Green
Gap
everyone else

I know you're a big Sengun fan. Think of it this way, Raptors are getting Suggs or Mobley.

Sengun over Cade? Suggs? Barnes AND Green?

Wow man. All due respect, thank God you're not picking for us.

When he runs away with the rookie of the year award it won't seem so crazy. He's currently the best player of all prospects and I understand there are significant question marks about how his game will translate he put up the best stats Ive ever seen coming into the NBA. Him and Luka stand alone for pre draft prospects when adjusting for competition.

[Risk101]

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?s=21

[UnbelievablyRAW]

What if Cleveland is willing to give up the 3rd for the 4th pick if we take on Kevin Love and maybe even give up Boucher as well? Maybe one of our seconds as well

[UnbelievablyRAW]

I know you're a big Sengun fan. Think of it this way, Raptors are getting Suggs or Mobley.

Sengun over Cade? Suggs? Barnes AND Green?

Wow man. All due respect, thank God you're not picking for us.

When he runs away with the rookie of the year award it won't seem so crazy. He's currently the best player of all prospects and I understand there are significant question marks about how his game will translate he put up the best stats Ive ever seen coming into the NBA. Him and Luka stand alone for pre draft prospects when adjusting for competition.

Which team is running their offense through him? Luka was always gonna get the ball and his game translates perfectly. A post up big that’s undersized doesn’t sound like it translates very well

[DG88]

I know you're a big Sengun fan. Think of it this way, Raptors are getting Suggs or Mobley.

Sengun over Cade? Suggs? Barnes AND Green?

Wow man. All due respect, thank God you're not picking for us.

When he runs away with the rookie of the year award it won't seem so crazy. He's currently the best player of all prospects and I understand there are significant question marks about how his game will translate he put up the best stats Ive ever seen coming into the NBA. Him and Luka stand alone for pre draft prospects when adjusting for competition.

But how?

Luka is a ballhandler with size at his position who plays on the perimeter. No one is disagreeing that Sengun isn't talented but he is not the best talent in the draft. He's small for a 5 both from height and length perspective and he would hold the most import postion defensively. He's going to put in space and in PnR action every possession until he's subbed out. Even in his own league this was happening to him and it's not going to get easier in the NBA. He'll be a really good scoring big with defensive limitations.

[Psubs]

I also think it's weird that Barnes at 6'9" only averaged 4 rebounds/game even though he was playing almost 25 minutes/game. Suggs averaged 5.3 rebounds per game as a guard in only 4 minutes more per game.

I think that's more on how he plays guarding dudes out on the perimeter and such.

Suggs averaged 5 rebounds guarding the perimeter...


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Ayayi averaged 7 rebounds besides Suggs. Ha, Suggs+Ayayi outrebounded Kispert+Timme!!!

[planetmars]

What if Cleveland is willing to give up the 3rd for the 4th pick if we take on Kevin Love and maybe even give up Boucher as well? Maybe one of our seconds as well

Love makes $31M. Boucher makes $7M. Need a lot more than a second rounder to make that trade work.

[Psubs]

Sengun over Cade? Suggs? Barnes AND Green?

Wow man. All due respect, thank God you're not picking for us.

When he runs away with the rookie of the year award it won't seem so crazy. He's currently the best player of all prospects and I understand there are significant question marks about how his game will translate he put up the best stats Ive ever seen coming into the NBA. Him and Luka stand alone for pre draft prospects when adjusting for competition.

But how?

Luka is a ballhandler with size at his position who plays on the perimeter. No one is disagreeing that Sengun isn't talented but he is not the best talent in the draft. He's small for a 5 both from height and length perspective and he would hold the most import postion defensively. He's going to put in space and in PnR action every possession until he's subbed out. Even in his own league this was happening to him and it's not going to get easier in the NBA. He'll be a really good scoring big with defensive limitations.

Right now he's somewhere between Jared Sullinger (mocked to go late lottery but dropped to #21) up to Kevin Love without a 3.

Times and the game has changed. 10 years ago Luka Garza would've been at least drafted as high as Tyler Hansborough.

[Raps in 4]

Aw man I hope we don't reach for Barnes at 4, just go with one of Green/Mobley/Suggs.

Barnes handle is decent for a big guy, but don't think it'll be good enough to run point in the NBA.

He looks like a defensive beast, and looks like he'll be a great utility guy in the NBA that can guard multiple positions. Yet, his shot looks awful at the moment, and half court offense is our biggest issue right now.

If we end up acquiring another high draft pick by trading Siakam or something, then I'd be cool with us taking him with the additional pick.

Right now, he's just another Ben Simmons. That's not a bad player, but if you can't teach him to shoot (and that's very likely), he'll have a limited NBA career.

[Raps in 4]

I know you're a big Sengun fan. Think of it this way, Raptors are getting Suggs or Mobley.

Sengun over Cade? Suggs? Barnes AND Green?

Wow man. All due respect, thank God you're not picking for us.

When he runs away with the rookie of the year award it won't seem so crazy. He's currently the best player of all prospects and I understand there are significant question marks about how his game will translate he put up the best stats Ive ever seen coming into the NBA. Him and Luka stand alone for pre draft prospects when adjusting for competition.

An unathletic, undersized big with slow foot speed who can't shoot is not being taken in the top-10 and isn't sniffing ROY. I'd be shocked if he ever became a starter in the NBA.

[WuTang_OG]

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Note if they make a deal, they want Garland to be their PG and move Okoro to SG. Their#1 guy on their board is Green but if he isnt there, it will be interesting to see if they reach for Kuminga. Thats who I think they ultimately take.

[RapsFanInOhio]

It’s not even that I don’t like Barnes, but he doesn’t create shots for himself and that’s the issue. It isn’t the shooting, because even if he could shoot, he still can’t create. He’s not a natural scorer, which is going to limit his ceiling in the NBA. He may have played PG in high school or whatever, but that doesn’t mean he can get a bucket when he needs to. His ceiling is closer to Aaron Gordon than it is Kawhi.

He’s a great defender, he’s aggressive, and he’s super athletic. I think he ends up being an average shooter because he’ll put the work in. My issue with picking him over guys like Suggs or even Mobley is that their shot creating upside is much higher than Barnes. I worry about this with Mobley to an extent, but he’s both bigger and has a better creating game than Barnes. If you’re bigger, it’s naturally easier to score.

I’ve got it:
Cade
Green
Suggs
Mobley
Barnes / Kuminga

And that’s mostly based on how I rate their ability to create shots. When you’re picking in the top 5, the skills that you have to aim for are shot making and self shot creating. Those skills give you the best chance to hit on a star. I’m not picking for defense or upside, I want to see how you can create buckets for yourself.

[Yallbecrazy]

Sengun over Cade? Suggs? Barnes AND Green?

Wow man. All due respect, thank God you're not picking for us.

When he runs away with the rookie of the year award it won't seem so crazy. He's currently the best player of all prospects and I understand there are significant question marks about how his game will translate he put up the best stats Ive ever seen coming into the NBA. Him and Luka stand alone for pre draft prospects when adjusting for competition.

But how?

Luka is a ballhandler with size at his position who plays on the perimeter. No one is disagreeing that Sengun isn't talented but he is not the best talent in the draft. He's small for a 5 both from height and length perspective and he would hold the most import postion defensively. He's going to put in space and in PnR action every possession until he's subbed out. Even in his own league this was happening to him and it's not going to get easier in the NBA. He'll be a really good scoring big with defensive limitations.

He is so extremely skilled in the PnR as a roller and rim finisher, he also passes out of the pick n roll the best of any big in the league right now other than Jokic and Draymond. He is so young it won't be unheard of for him to develop his PnR defense, I'm not sure of too may bigs that are good PnR defenders at 18.
I'm not saying he's the best talent, I'm saying he currently is the best player of all prospects because of his advanced skill set and high BBIQ.
I think he can play the 4 or the 5, and he will shoot the 3 fine as a rookie with potential to be a knockdown shooter later given his form. He didn't take 3s, because his eFG% was so high in the pnr and in the low post that he would have had to be a 47% 3 pt shooter to make it more efficient than his normal offense.

He put up really good block and steal numbers despite his lack of athleticism, I figure he will end up being a decent defender more often than not. Also, his lack of athleticism is overblown.

If you went strictly by box scores, adjusting for age then Sengun is the best prospect in the last 30 years and it isn't close. Obviously there are more factors, but you can't just dismiss the numbers he put up either.

[Raps in 4]

I've never been more confident that the consensus is wrong about so many of the top guys. Cade does not belong in the top 3.

youbecrazy

all I do is post facts and warning signs about Cade's terrible stats and how he compares terribly to other top draft prospects

You put too much stock into prospect stats. They aren't that relevant at this level.

[DelAbbot]

Sengun looks like a star... if this were the 90s/00s

[Dalek]

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Note if they make a deal, they want Garland to be their PG and move Okoro to SG. Their#1 guy on their board is Green but if he isnt there, it will be interesting to see if they reach for Kuminga. Thats who I think they ultimately take.

One interesting idea might be for them to draft Sharife Cooper who played with Isaac Okoro in highschool. They have a strong bond and play well.

Not sure they need to move Okoro. He can just stay as a SF and Garland as their SG. Garland isn't a PG so he can be their scorer. Imagine Cooper throwing lobs to Allen and Nance.

Cavs seem tailor made for Cooper. They might be able to trade down and get an asset.

[WuTang_OG]

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[PD28]

Sengun looks like a star... if this were the 90s/00s

Jahlil Okafor and Enes Kanter were also born a decade or two early.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

What if Cleveland is willing to give up the 3rd for the 4th pick if we take on Kevin Love and maybe even give up Boucher as well? Maybe one of our seconds as well

Love makes $31M. Boucher makes $7M. Need a lot more than a second rounder to make that trade work.

Could be a 3 team trade and maybe Love and that second rounder to the Knicks and we take the 3rd pick

[mtcan]

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Note if they make a deal, they want Garland to be their PG and move Okoro to SG. Their#1 guy on their board is Green but if he isnt there, it will be interesting to see if they reach for Kuminga. Thats who I think they ultimately take.

One interesting idea might be for them to draft Sharife Cooper who played with Isaac Okoro in highschool. They have a strong bond and play well.

Not sure they need to move Okoro. He can just stay as a SF and Garland as their SG. Garland isn't a PG so he can be their scorer. Imagine Cooper throwing lobs to Allen and Nance.

Cavs seem tailor made for Cooper. They might be able to trade down and get an asset.

I can see the Heat getting the deal done with a Herro plus first round pick.

Then you would start Herro at the 2 and Okoro at the 3.

The Lakers don't really have much to offer. THT is a free agent and so is Caruso and Schroeder. Montrezl Harrell has a player option...but he isn't on the same level.

I don't see trade that doesn't have another starter-worthy guard coming back in return for Sex.