ImageImageImageImageImage

Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!!

Moderators: 7 Footer, Morris_Shatford, DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX

User avatar
Badonkadonk
General Manager
Posts: 7,904
And1: 12,486
Joined: Jul 11, 2012

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1401 » by Badonkadonk » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:41 pm

vulture wrote:
Badonkadonk wrote:
vulture wrote:Anyone expecting Mobley to be a center is going to be surprised. He's basically a wing player forced to be a center because he's a 7 footer. He has less strength than siakam and siakam had trouble playing center this season.

What? He projects as a 5 on defense in almost every way. Watching even one scouting video should make this obvious. What makes him a unique defensive prospect is ability to cover the perimeter as well, but his man AND weakside rim protection is classic center stuff.

Even offense most of his value comes out of that position as well (especially his jump hook, which is impossible to guard), but he's got a nifty midrange game and has shown good form from behind the arc. Of course he brings the obvious center stuff too (i.e. lob threat, camping the dunker's spot on some sets).

He moves like a 3, but he'll play the role of a 5 on both ends.


this is literally the boucher conundrum. He doesn't have the strength to hold his position defensively or offensively. He gets moved by smaller players all the time and he can't set screens because he's always looking to slip due to lack of physicality.
His offense is outside in rather than inside out so I don't think he'll be able to play center until he adds strength.


This is literally NOT the Boucher conundrum. Boucher was a grown-ass man by the time he played his way into the rotation.

This has been posted several times before, but the closest analogy to Mobley is Anthony Davis, who had the exact same things written about his physical profile, and more importantly, about how his skillset would make that a moot point eventually.

The video just posted is just one place where the specific attributes get mapped.

And yeah, every prospect has their weaknesses - Cade is not athletic or explosive, Suggs needs to shoot better, Mobley needs to get bigger/stronger, Green needs to learn how to play D and read offenses. That doesn't mean you gloss over the very rare stuff that any of them bring to the table.

Boucher and Mobley are on completely different planets skill-wise.
Image
User avatar
HumbleRen
RealGM
Posts: 18,366
And1: 25,326
Joined: Jul 02, 2021
 

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1402 » by HumbleRen » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:49 pm

Read on Twitter
Yallbecrazy
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,758
And1: 5,427
Joined: Nov 25, 2013

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1403 » by Yallbecrazy » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:49 pm

EH15 wrote:I'd like to remind everyone that if Mobley was so generational, he would by vying for the first overall pick right now, not meandering between 3rd and 4th.

There has been historically a bias for bigs with the top pick in the NBA. It has always been this way. The best prospect in each of the next two draft at this very moment is Holmgren and Wembanyama. Mobley can't even get top 2 buzz.

Give me Suggs and call it a day. Utter nonsense trying to justify Mobley falling all the way to 4th and thinking we hit the jackpot. 1 team passing on him is good fortune, two is serendipity, three means there's likely a reason for it.



Do you see who those 3 teams are?
2 teams passed on Doncic too. These teams are picking in the top 3 for a reason.
User avatar
HumbleRen
RealGM
Posts: 18,366
And1: 25,326
Joined: Jul 02, 2021
 

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1404 » by HumbleRen » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:50 pm

Comparing Boucher and Mobley is insane lol.

Mobley is already light years ahead of Boucher as a defender and passer.
EH15
General Manager
Posts: 8,076
And1: 7,140
Joined: Jan 15, 2008

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1405 » by EH15 » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:56 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
Read on Twitter

This guy's going to be f*cking good. That's all there is to it.

At the same ages

More athletic then Dame
Better IQ then Lowry
Better defender than DRose

It's not a matter if he'll be good, it's how good. The absolutely worst case scenario is a super charged Brogdon/peak George Hill.
User avatar
bon
General Manager
Posts: 7,854
And1: 13,530
Joined: Jul 17, 2015
 

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1406 » by bon » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:01 pm

Badonkadonk wrote:
This has been posted several times before, but the closest analogy to Mobley is Anthony Davis, who had the exact same things written about his physical profile, and more importantly, about how his skillset would make that a moot point eventually.

The video just posted is just one place where the specific attributes get mapped.

And yeah, every prospect has their weaknesses - Cade is not athletic or explosive, Suggs needs to shoot better, Mobley needs to get bigger/stronger, Green needs to learn how to play D and read offenses. That doesn't mean you gloss over the very rare stuff that any of them bring to the table.

Boucher and Mobley are on completely different planets skill-wise.


Yup

Spoiler:
Image


If a prospect's biggest weakness is their strength (when the majority of player's get stronger after their rookie season) I'm willing to bet that guy's skillset is extremely good.
Image
User avatar
WuTang_OG
RealGM
Posts: 40,834
And1: 51,293
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1407 » by WuTang_OG » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:09 pm

Read on Twitter
Yallbecrazy
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,758
And1: 5,427
Joined: Nov 25, 2013

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1408 » by Yallbecrazy » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:10 pm

rarefind wrote:Wait.. wait...wait.

We literally have posters saying Sengun is still going to fill out and grow and folks suggesting Mobley is done filling out?

lol... pick a narrative and apply it consistently guys. The Raptors (and nobody else) is taking Sengun at 4. I'm not opposed to him by any means but you'd be acquiring another pick to draft him.



Mobley is over a year older than Sengun. Mobley was the best player in college basketball last year and he is so fluid and athletic while being a really good passer. Those traits are so rare in a big man.

I hate the argument that it is a guard or wing driven league, it is a skill driven league and because of the rarity of tall players being highly skilled with high BBIQs is why you see more guards dominate.

None of the top guards have generational athleticism or crush all the metrics:

Cade: very poor turnover ratio, poor creation, terrible rebounding numbers, poor passer, poor steals/blocks.
Green: poor FTr, poor rebounding, poor assist to turnover ratio.
Suggs: poor rebounding, which shows a lack of aggression given his physical tools. Older than the other top guys, played on the best offensive team in the nation so his assists are inflated and turnovers deflated from defenses not being able to key on him and his teammates missing fewer shots.

Mobley and Sengun are the only two in this draft that I can see a >1% chance being top 5 players and MVP candidates. Mobley is much more coveted because it is easy to see how his defense will translate. Sengun developed his shot incredibly well over a year and is the most skilled big man with the highest BBIQ I've seen despite his physical limitations. Highly skilled players are far more likely to develop new high end skills and enhance their current skills than unskilled athletic players are to become highly skilled at anything.
User avatar
WuTang_OG
RealGM
Posts: 40,834
And1: 51,293
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1409 » by WuTang_OG » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:10 pm

Read on Twitter
User avatar
WuTang_OG
RealGM
Posts: 40,834
And1: 51,293
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1410 » by WuTang_OG » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:26 pm



this guy does the best scoutin reports
DG88
Forum Mod - Raptors
Forum Mod - Raptors
Posts: 39,146
And1: 29,944
Joined: Jul 26, 2008
Location: You don't know my location but I know yours
     

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1411 » by DG88 » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:30 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:

this guy does the best scoutin reports

There's a reason why Suggs was touted as the #2 prospect in this draft. If he's there at 4 that would be amazing.
Image
User avatar
Jcity08
RealGM
Posts: 12,854
And1: 17,743
Joined: May 06, 2018
       

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1412 » by Jcity08 » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:38 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:

this guy does the best scoutin reports


He makes a damn strong case for Suggs, ngl.
Image
Image

Signed with team T.W.O for the 2022-23 2023-24 2024-25 season.
User avatar
TOStateofMind
RealGM
Posts: 29,057
And1: 21,847
Joined: Jul 16, 2008
   

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1413 » by TOStateofMind » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:39 pm

Like others have said. Just don’t overthink it. We literally got a gift moving into top 4 and the pick is obvious.
Image
User avatar
WuTang_OG
RealGM
Posts: 40,834
And1: 51,293
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1414 » by WuTang_OG » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:41 pm

https://youtu.be/AfSLNBiDgCQ?t=447

amazing play

Mobley or Suggs cant go wrong !!!!!!
DG88
Forum Mod - Raptors
Forum Mod - Raptors
Posts: 39,146
And1: 29,944
Joined: Jul 26, 2008
Location: You don't know my location but I know yours
     

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1415 » by DG88 » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:45 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:https://youtu.be/AfSLNBiDgCQ?t=447

amazing play

Mobley or Suggs cant go wrong !!!!!!

Nope you can't but I do see an "it" factor with Suggs with his winning plays. So he has the edge for me but I'd still be happy with either.
Image
JPriest
Senior
Posts: 741
And1: 843
Joined: Feb 01, 2006

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1416 » by JPriest » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:48 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:

this guy does the best scoutin reports


classically trained guitarist that knows every chord, every scale and the specific reason that every note works in concert vs a self taught blues musician, the guy that knows what sounds good when he's shredding even if he couldn't tell you what note it is. some deep stuff here.
User avatar
WuTang_OG
RealGM
Posts: 40,834
And1: 51,293
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1417 » by WuTang_OG » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:50 pm

JPriest wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:

this guy does the best scoutin reports


classically trained guitarist that knows every chord, every scale and the specific reason that every note works in concert vs a self taught blues musician, the guy that knows what sounds good when he's shredding even if he couldn't tell you what note it is. some deep stuff here.

lmao
i laughed @ that too.
User avatar
Syd-TK3
RealGM
Posts: 19,091
And1: 19,482
Joined: Jun 07, 2015
 

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1418 » by Syd-TK3 » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:52 pm

People be throwing around "generational" way too easily
Image
mtcan
RealGM
Posts: 27,582
And1: 23,961
Joined: May 19, 2001

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1419 » by mtcan » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:58 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:
Read on Twitter

...says the former GM who struck out on 2 top 10 picks in the SAME draft in Dragan Bender and Marquis Chriss :lol: :lol:

Also the guy who blew top 5 picks on Josh Jackson and Alex Len.
User avatar
niQ
Forum Mod - Raptors
Forum Mod - Raptors
Posts: 15,992
And1: 29,831
Joined: Jun 14, 2011

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#1420 » by niQ » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:58 pm

DG88 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:https://youtu.be/AfSLNBiDgCQ?t=447

amazing play

Mobley or Suggs cant go wrong !!!!!!

Nope you can't but I do see an "it" factor with Suggs with his winning plays. So he has the edge for me but I'd still be happy with either.


Agreed 100%

Return to Toronto Raptors