Re: Sexton Convo, Update PG: 15 - Knicks most aggressive suitor

[thebuzzardman]

A good write up on Sexton.


NBA Draft: Could Cavs have gone a different direction in 2018?
by Justin Brownlow 2 days ago Follow @BrownlojCLE

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Collin Sexton, Cleveland Cavaliers
Cavs: Looking back at the 2018 NBA Draft

To start off here, let’s be honest and say the 2018 NBA Draft, at least the top of it, has to be one of the best in league history. Deandre Ayton was taken first overall by the Phoenix Suns, who are two wins away from a title. The second and fourth picks were Marvin Bagley III and Jaren Jackson Jr., who are still a work in progress, but the progress looks good. Finally picks 3 and 5 were Luka Doncic and Trae Young.

I could go into detail about the trades that happened, but for now, let’s just call this group, the tier one of the 2018 NBA Draft, and Collin Sexton is nowhere near that tier.

Sexton was listed as a point guard when drafted, but at this point, he’s not a primary ball-handler. So for the sake of the article, let’s overlook the success that Michael Porter Jr. (14), Miles Bridges (12), and Mikal Bridges (10) have had, because they play completely different roles for their individual teams.

So going forward, let’s compare Sexton’s time in the league with guys like Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Donte DiVincenzo, Kevin Huerter and Zhaire Smith.

Cavs: Sexton is an inferior player compared to Gilgeous-Alexander

The first thing you do when you look at the first round of the 2018 NBA Draft is you see that Sexton was taken eighth, while Shai Gilgeous-Alexander was taken 11th. Through the first two years of their careers, there is an argument to be made that Sexton was the better player. However, after this past year, it’s become clear that SGA is much better.

This year Gilgeous-Alexander scored almost 24 points per game, to go with six assists and five rebounds per game. On top of that he shot 42 percent from three, and had a 57 percent effective field goal percentage. In contrast, Sexton only shot 37 percent from three and had an effective field goal percentage of 52 percent. To pile on some more, Sexton has a really high usage rate of 29 percent, while also having a low assist rate.

Finally, if you watch Sexton and Gilgeous-Alexander, it’s clear the SGA is the superior guard, and a much better defender.

A lot of words to say SGA better than Sexton. No kidding. At least we have Knox.

[pwayknicks]

I can’t see the cabs accepting obi Knox and a pick for Colin ..

I do think I’d rather take sexton and 1 extra year of loves contract than take the chance of paying big long term money to Lonzo…

If we can get sexton and take love for Knox and a future Dallas pick I’d be all for it


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[Jeffrey]

Sexton played SG for the most part with Garland but he played PG when Garland was out.


For us, Thibs might like him more as an attacking PG & then we can focus on getting a wing for the 2/3 in the draft or free agency.

Which has been Thibs offense for over a decade. I haven't seen much change in that. He might want to bring back Rose to show Sexton the ropes LOL

[Jeffrey]

Rather keep Obi at almost all costs. Don't @ me but I think I rather keep Obi over RJ perhaps, or at least similar. Quick and Mitch next and all basically tied for keepable. Rest can go.

Wait what?! RJ's first year you can see there's something. Obi hasn't done much except for a few minutes of high flying.

[mrpoetryNmotion]

Knox + Obi + a pick is reasonable for Sexton. At the same time, I see no outlier ability in him that makes me particularly want him--a 6-foot shooting guard. He is solid, no doubt, and has dog in him, but I'm not sure I trust that when playoff defenses are truly tuning in. Our top 3 players wouldn't have natural advantages based on their physical profile or skillset and I don't think that would particularly lead us anywhere. You need at least one player who is so physically imposing in some area or has some crazy outlier skill that you can leverage to create and capitalize off advantages.

I wouldn't mind trading for him, though, and it might be refreshing to watch a guard who can actually do something with the ball, but I don't really expect it to be a winning move, really. Maybe I'd be wrong, IDK

[Knick4Real]

Sexton/Rose
Lonzo/IQ
RJ/Vildoza
Randle/?
Mitch/Olynyk
Bullocks for shooting depth and continuity. Pinson for towel waiving. That Belgian dude for development. Pelle for 6 hard fouls. Some G-League guy to sell hope to Westchester.

Is it a championship team? No.
I'd say there are several players not that hard to trade if it doesn't work out, though timing will matter if it's pre max or post max Randle/RJ/Sexton.

[HighRyzer83]

damn, his value is real low. even though i'm not sold, it's worth the gamble at that price.

Yeah giving them obi considering the flashes he showed AND draft picks for Sexton is nonsensical. Sexton is not established.

He's a 24 ppg scorer on above-average efficiency.

The fact that he's not "established" as an All-Star or as a winning player (yet) is the only reason he's on the market. If he were established, he'd cost a lot more than that.

Knicks have to gamble at some point. Sexton fits the archetype of the player who's been in the wrong situation and who's waiting to break out. I'd gamble on that for an underperforming prospect and a pick that very likely won't amount to much considering this regime's plan to compete after making the playoffs.

Sexton also fits RJ and IQ's timeline.

Idk Chanel lottery prospects and 1st round draft picks is what you give up for a star player. Just because the clippers ripped and gutted for Paul George doesn't make right. I bet they'd like that trade back

[RHODEY]

Yeah giving them obi considering the flashes he showed AND draft picks for Sexton is nonsensical. Sexton is not established.

He's a 24 ppg scorer on above-average efficiency.

The fact that he's not "established" as an All-Star or as a winning player (yet) is the only reason he's on the market. If he were established, he'd cost a lot more than that.

Knicks have to gamble at some point. Sexton fits the archetype of the player who's been in the wrong situation and who's waiting to break out. I'd gamble on that for an underperforming prospect and a pick that very likely won't amount to much considering this regime's plan to compete after making the playoffs.

Sexton also fits RJ and IQ's timeline.

Idk Chanel lottery prospects and 1st round draft picks is what you give up for a star player. Just because the clippers ripped and gutted for Paul George doesn't make right. I bet they'd like that trade back

Paul George just took them to the WCF without Kahwi from the 2nd round on...so I'm not sure I agree here.

[HighRyzer83]

They can have that bum Frank. Knox and 1 1st draft pick. If we give both picks then we have no shot at drafting Tre Mann, whom I think has serious potential.

[Montmorencie]

Frank, Knox and Obi +2nd rounder should seal the deal. Dont get me wrong, I like Obi as character but the kid cant play.

[aggo]

Sexton fixes a lot of problems on the team, and doesnt have a long term contract, and will have 0 impedance on our ability to sign other players or UFAs/RFA max. He's young and might benefit from playing with a hard ass coach.

the fact that there are so many people are against this simply makes me think you guys are actually just scared to try and improve the team. What assets? 19/21? we also have 32. The NBA is not about fielding an all youngster roster.

Sexton for something like 19 + Knox + Obi is a steal & the exact definition of low risk high reward.

Obi isn't quite a bust (yet) but I didn't see anything in his rookie year that made me believe he could be a 36mpg player anytime soon, certainly not before Sexton is due for his RFA max. In which case I would argue that Sexton getting a tryout for a RFA deal with the Knicks is worth way more than waiting around to see if Obi can play 36mpg or play center. This would be a different case if Sexton was playing RJ's position where there would be overlap on how he would benefit the team. Sexton fills a pretty big hole. He's a malcontent, perhaps a bit selfish, perhaps hes just Mitchell Donovan-lite. Who knows, but 19 + knox + obi is worth finding out if he is.

[FutureKnicksGM]

They can have Obi, but no picks. Sexton ain't that good.

[thebuzzardman]

Sexton played SG for the most part with Garland but he played PG when Garland was out.


For us, Thibs might like him more as an attacking PG & then we can focus on getting a wing for the 2/3 in the draft or free agency.

Which has been Thibs offense for over a decade. I haven't seen much change in that. He might want to bring back Rose to show Sexton the ropes LOL

I mean, no one has pointed out that young Rose and Sexton were kind of similar, at least in approach to playing the game?

Yes, I get that Rose was unbelievable athletically and was about using that speed and leaping to get to the hoop, while Sexton is a much better outside shooter than Rose was at year 3, but both about getting to the rim and scoring, being a floor general, not so much.

[thebuzzardman]

Knox + Obi + a pick is reasonable for Sexton. At the same time, I see no outlier ability in him that makes me particularly want him--a 6-foot shooting guard. He is solid, no doubt, and has dog in him, but I'm not sure I trust that when playoff defenses are truly tuning in. Our top 3 players wouldn't have natural advantages based on their physical profile or skillset and I don't think that would particularly lead us anywhere. You need at least one player who is so physically imposing in some area or has some crazy outlier skill that you can leverage to create and capitalize off advantages.

I wouldn't mind trading for him, though, and it might be refreshing to watch a guard who can actually do something with the ball, but I don't really expect it to be a winning move, really. Maybe I'd be wrong, IDK

Sorry, Greg Oden isn't available.

[thebuzzardman]

Yeah giving them obi considering the flashes he showed AND draft picks for Sexton is nonsensical. Sexton is not established.

He's a 24 ppg scorer on above-average efficiency.

The fact that he's not "established" as an All-Star or as a winning player (yet) is the only reason he's on the market. If he were established, he'd cost a lot more than that.

Knicks have to gamble at some point. Sexton fits the archetype of the player who's been in the wrong situation and who's waiting to break out. I'd gamble on that for an underperforming prospect and a pick that very likely won't amount to much considering this regime's plan to compete after making the playoffs.

Sexton also fits RJ and IQ's timeline.

Idk Chanel lottery prospects and 1st round draft picks is what you give up for a star player. Just because the clippers ripped and gutted for Paul George doesn't make right. I bet they'd like that trade back

Right, and lets build on this and Channel's point.

Let me get out of the way that Sexton isn't perfect - he's not "pass enough" for a PG and certainly not for one that is on the short side, so it's not as if he can guard multiple positions etc. What he is is a pretty good player - not great, not with the longest track record, but "good"

So instead of looking at superstar trades, we should look at what the cost of a "good" player in a trade was. Obviously there are all sorts of scenarios, caveats etc. Was the trade to facilitate a FA player who was leaving anyway? Was it the case of a good player who was very expensive and the team wanted to clear current or future cap space?

Someone not as lazy as me should really look into this.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2020%E2%80%9321_NBA_season_transactions

Schroeder went for Danny Green and rights to Jaden McDaniels (No. 28)

Luke Kennard went for Jay Scrub and 4 2nd rounders (we know Detroit didn't want to pay his upcoming bigger 2nd deal)

Oubre went for 2021 GSW protected first-round pick, 2021 DEN second-round pick

Fournier went for Jeff Teague (cut)2025 second-round pick, 2027 BOS second-round pick

3/4's of the trades involve OKC..lol

There are a lot of other trades, but I avoided ones where somewhat equal players went for each others or the star trades

Sexton has proven to be good in 3 seasons, while Knox and Obi haven't, though it's early on Obi.

I think a #1 and Knox OR Obi is fair considering Cleveland doesn't want to resign Sexton.
On the other hand, maybe other teams like Pacers or Heat are interested and that might drive up the price and why the rumor is 3 pieces.

What Cleveland thinks about Obi and his upside or what the Knicks can convince Cleveland of might keep this deal much more favorable to the Knicks. Knicks leverage is Sexton wants out, Cleveland doesn't want to pay NEXT year, Cleveland leverage is they can wait a year or at least until the deadline, play a few teams off each other, real interest by them or not.

I get Sexton had 24 ppg. I also know he got to take a lot of shots on a bad team. Schroeder has never had a season like Sexton did, but Schroeder had some good years and had more of a track record. Kennard is still about "upside" but I don't feel he's as good as Sexton and Oubre is "good" and still retains "upside"

Honestly, with the right maneuvering, Sexton should probably be had for a #1 and Knox or Obi and Knox and at the MOST, a #1 (21) and Obi.

[Montmorencie]

They can have Obi, but no picks. Sexton ain't that good.

I'd say he is good, but his intentions and dedication are questionable. But the talent is there.

[oldshoolballer]

Sexton/Rose
Lonzo/IQ
RJ/Vildoza
Randle/?
Mitch/Olynyk
Bullocks for shooting depth and continuity. Pinson for towel waiving. That Belgian dude for development. Pelle for 6 hard fouls. Some G-League guy to sell hope to Westchester.

Is it a championship team? No.
I'd say there are several players not that hard to trade if it doesn't work out, though timing will matter if it's pre max or post max Randle/RJ/Sexton.

Good take Buzzardman very realistic. The team would be a little guard heavy. You would need a decent backup at the 3 and 4. Not a championship team but better than last year.

[Zenzibar]

Watch on YouTube

[Juco24]

Sexton is a 6'1" shooting guard who doesn't shoot great. He doesn't move the ball (just ask KLove). He's not a good defender. He's a good scorer that I honestly can't see fitting in well with Randle and Barrett. Some of the same people on here wanting him complained about Randle having sticky fingers. Sexton has that reputation

[Meat]

They can have Obi, but no picks. Sexton ain't that good.

I'd say he is good, but his intentions and dedication are questionable. But the talent is there.

Sexton is the dog that continued to attack relentlessly during that 3 v 5 at uni right? That was him.. but you’re right let’s question his dedication