Ambrose wrote:NZB2323 wrote:NYK-Mentality85 wrote:Carried by Jordan? Yeah right.
MJ23 first 3 years in the league = 3 losing below .500 seasons (3 1st round exits).
And then Chicago drafted Scottie Pippen during MJ's 4th year and Chicago NEVER lost again.
And in 1992-1993 the Bulls with Jordan won 57 games
But in 1993-1994 without Jordan Chicago still win 55 games and Pippen took my Knicks WITHOUT JORDAN 7 games and put up MVP #s without "MJ".
Pippen: 7 years without Jordan = 6 winning seasons / 1 losing season.
Jordan: 5 years without Pippen = 5 Losing seasons / 0 winning seasons.
Pippen could win without Jordan but Jordan could NEVER win without Pippen.
To consider MJ the greatest but Pippen the most overrated let's me know I shouldn't be talking basketball with you...
Are 22, 9, and 6 really MVP numbers? Because that’s what Pippen averaged in 1994. People love to compare 93 and 94, but in 94 the Bulls added Kukoc, Kerr, and Longley to the team, and that depth helped them. The 1995 Chicago Bulls were 34-31 without Jordan and 13-4 with Jordan. In 1998 Pippen was injured and only played in 44 games, but the Bulls still won 62 games, and Pippen had a migraine again in game 6 against the Jazz when Pippen had 8 points and Jordan had 45.
That’s why I said Pippen’s comparison is Paul George. In 1994 Pippen came in 3rd in MVP voting and in 2019 Paul George came in 3rd in MVP voting, but you’re not winning a title with either one as your best player. Pippen did well pushing the Knicks to 7 without Jordan, and Paul George did well pushing the Suns to 6 without Kawhi. Paul George is a better scorer, Pippen is a better defensive player, and both players have had some really disappointing playoff games.
Today? No.
In 1994? Yeah.
The league is different. Only 16 guys averaged 20 ppg in 1994, this year there were 31.
In 1994 Pippen was 8th in PPG, 22nd in RPG (2nd among non-bigs), 19th in APG (1st among non-PG's), and 2nd in the NBA in SPG. and did this playing for the 3rd seed in the East. PG's big year was 2nd in PPG, 24th in RPG (3rd among non-bigs), 44th in APG (20th among non-PG's) and 1st in spg. They are pretty comparable but Pippen was 'the guy' on a better team.
Among NBA wings Pippen was 3rd in scoring, 2nd in rebounding, first in assists, 1st in steals, and 3rd in blocks while being the best man defender in the league on a really good team. He was certainly a worthy MVP candidate.
You could say the same thing about Paul George in 2019 when I made the comparison and George averaged 28, 8, and 4.
However, I think we can both agree that neither one of those guys was a top 3 player that year. Shaq, Ewing, Barkley, and Malone were better than Pippen and Curry, Dame, Jokic, Embiid, Durant, Kawhi, and Lebron were better than Paul George, and we saw that play out in the playoffs. Paul George lost in the first round, and Pippen lost in the 2nd round. You say Pippen took your knicks to 7 without Jordan, but Pippen had a lot of help. Toni Kukoc hit the game-winning shot when Pippen refused to play, and Pippen may have averaged 22 a game for the series, but both BJ Armstrong and Horace Grant averaged 17 a game with much better efficiency. Horace Grant had a higher Game Score for the series than Pippen, 4 players on the Bulls had a better offensive rating for the series, and one player had a better defensive rating.
The reason why the 1994 Bulls were so good, and the reason why Pippen's 94 season is a little overrated, is because the 1994 Bulls had great depth. Their bench unit was Paxson, Kerr, Scott Williams, Kukoc, and Luc Longley. That's 3 starters and a 6th man of the year winner for championship teams. Pippen getting 3rd in MVP voting in 1994 was closer to Joakim Noah getting 4th in MVP voting in 2014 than it was to Curry getting 3rd in MVP voting this year.
There's a reason why the 1995 Bulls went 34-31 without Jordan and 13-4 with him. There's a reason why the Bulls won 6 championships with Jordan and none without him. There's a reason why the Bulls won 72 games with Jordan and 55 without him. There's a reason why the Bulls were 12-8 in playoff games when Scottie Pippen failed to score in the double digits.
And people can bring up Jordan not having playoff success when he was on a scrub team his first 3 years in the league or the success of a deep Bulls team in 1994, but people don't put those situations into context so it can fit their narrative.