Cade Cunningham

[clyde21]

first time I heard of this Dean guy...per usual some good and some bad takes.

like last year, he had Hali and Williams #4 and #5...good take...but he followed that up with putting Isaac Okoro and Nico **** Mannion 6th and 7th overall

[Marcus]

first time I heard of this Dean guy...per usual some good and some bad takes.

like last year, he had Hali and Williams #4 and #5...good take...but he followed that up with putting Isaac Okoro and Nico **** Mannion 6th and 7th overall

when i first started really looking at this prospect thing (probably around 2014) I found some of his work and with all due respect to analytics and their usefulness i just can't fathom leaning solely on numbers alone to gather an opinion about a prospect.

[Charm]

Cade has the bad-teammates excuse for his lukewarm stats, and Green has the tougher-competition excuse for his lukewarm advanced stats. I find Green's excuse a little bit more compelling, but I don't feel particularly confident in either of them.

[Marcus]

Cade has the bad-teammates excuse for his lukewarm stats, and Green has the tougher-competition excuse for his lukewarm advanced stats. I find Green's excuse a little bit more compelling, but I don't feel particularly confident in either of them.

if you said it, then i missed it. Who is your number 1?

[Charm]

Cade has the bad-teammates excuse for his lukewarm stats, and Green has the tougher-competition excuse for his lukewarm advanced stats. I find Green's excuse a little bit more compelling, but I don't feel particularly confident in either of them.

if you said it, then i missed it. Who is your number 1?

I have Sengun #1, followed by Barnes and Mobley. Numbers guy, in case that wasn't obvious enough, haha.

[Marcus]

Cade has the bad-teammates excuse for his lukewarm stats, and Green has the tougher-competition excuse for his lukewarm advanced stats. I find Green's excuse a little bit more compelling, but I don't feel particularly confident in either of them.

if you said it, then i missed it. Who is your number 1?

I have Sengun #1, followed by Barnes and Mobley. Numbers guy, in case that wasn't obvious enough, haha.

lol yeahhhhhhh kinda picked that part up a while back.

not to derail the thread or anything. Why Barnes so high?

[Charm]

if you said it, then i missed it. Who is your number 1?

I have Sengun #1, followed by Barnes and Mobley. Numbers guy, in case that wasn't obvious enough, haha.

lol yeahhhhhhh kinda picked that part up a while back.

not to derail the thread or anything. Why Barnes so high?

His assist and steal rates, 9.4 per 100 and 3.4 per 100, are off the charts for a player with his physical tools. Simmons, for comparison, was at 7.5 and 3.1. Assists and steals are two huge indicators for basketball IQ, and when you combine basketball IQ, size, and athleticism, the results are usually very good.

[Marcus]

I have Sengun #1, followed by Barnes and Mobley. Numbers guy, in case that wasn't obvious enough, haha.

lol yeahhhhhhh kinda picked that part up a while back.

not to derail the thread or anything. Why Barnes so high?

His assist and steal rates, 9.4 per 100 and 3.4 per 100, are off the charts for a player with his physical tools. Simmons, for comparison, was at 7.5 and 3.1. Assists and steals are two huge indicators for basketball IQ, and when you combine basketball IQ, size, and athleticism, the results are usually very good.

no concern for his deficiencies on the offensive end?

[Charm]

lol yeahhhhhhh kinda picked that part up a while back.

not to derail the thread or anything. Why Barnes so high?

His assist and steal rates, 9.4 per 100 and 3.4 per 100, are off the charts for a player with his physical tools. Simmons, for comparison, was at 7.5 and 3.1. Assists and steals are two huge indicators for basketball IQ, and when you combine basketball IQ, size, and athleticism, the results are usually very good.

no concern for his deficiencies on the offensive end?

If he was additionally a highly-skilled scorer, he'd basically be LeBron 2.0. He'd be a no-brainer #1 pick prospect. Obviously that's not the case...but still, there's precedent for high-athleticism high-IQ guys developing into good or great scorers over time. What if he's a 4" taller Russell Westbrook? That's a hell of a ceiling. Even if he's never a smooth, graceful scorer like Cade or Green he could be the best player in the draft.

[clyde21]

Cade has the bad-teammates excuse for his lukewarm stats, and Green has the tougher-competition excuse for his lukewarm advanced stats. I find Green's excuse a little bit more compelling, but I don't feel particularly confident in either of them.

if you said it, then i missed it. Who is your number 1?

I have Sengun #1, followed by Barnes and Mobley. Numbers guy, in case that wasn't obvious enough, haha.

wait u have Sengun #1 overall?

now that's a hot take...hotter than my RJ Hampton #1 overall last yr

[Marcus]

His assist and steal rates, 9.4 per 100 and 3.4 per 100, are off the charts for a player with his physical tools. Simmons, for comparison, was at 7.5 and 3.1. Assists and steals are two huge indicators for basketball IQ, and when you combine basketball IQ, size, and athleticism, the results are usually very good.

no concern for his deficiencies on the offensive end?

If he was additionally a highly-skilled scorer, he'd basically be LeBron 2.0. He'd be a no-brainer #1 pick prospect. Obviously that's not the case...but still, there's precedent for high-athleticism high-IQ guys developing into good or great scorers over time. What if he's a 4" taller Russell Westbrook? That's a hell of a ceiling. Even if he's never a smooth, graceful scorer like Cade or Green he could be the best player in the draft.

and see, this is where these conversations get tricky for me. To bring it back on topic, Cade gets spoken about in tones of he is now what he will always be and the numbers attached to that will prove to stay the same or worsen. There isn't the same "what if" tag placed on him. If numbers are the end all be all for the evaluation i don't see where the room to say what if he's a bigger whomever or better passing whatchamacallit exist. Might be the reason i weigh numbers only but so far.

He will never have the bounce or first step to be an elite or (one could argue) average NBA athlete, but a kid who was putting cannonballs into the backboard just a year ago is now 40% from distance with ability to hit off the bounce and catch. Tells me there's enough work ethic in there to figure out "i might need to add a floater to my finishing around the cup" "i'll need to be more technically sound on how i navigate these picks to make up for lack of burst" "gotta tighten this handle to create the space i otherwise wouldn't have so i can get off these looks i've put hours and hours of time and repetition into hitting". Doesn't automatically mean he will also doesn't mean he won't.

So when i see "what if he's a 4" taller Russell Westbrook" despite having nothing in common with what makes Russ Russ outside of the energy they play with (and granted i'm assuming that was an exaggeration as an example) I gotta wonder where that trigger in the brain losses access.

[Big J]

That's funny because aren't you a Green fan and this guy has Green not even in the top 4.

I am a Green guy, and I very much disagree with his assessment of him. That doesn't invalidate the flaws that he points out about Cade though.

so his opinion counts when it's on Cade but not Green?

Do your opinions fully align with every scout you agree with?

[Charm]

no concern for his deficiencies on the offensive end?

If he was additionally a highly-skilled scorer, he'd basically be LeBron 2.0. He'd be a no-brainer #1 pick prospect. Obviously that's not the case...but still, there's precedent for high-athleticism high-IQ guys developing into good or great scorers over time. What if he's a 4" taller Russell Westbrook? That's a hell of a ceiling. Even if he's never a smooth, graceful scorer like Cade or Green he could be the best player in the draft.

and see, this is where these conversations get tricky for me. To bring it back on topic, Cade gets spoken about in tones of he is now what he will always be and the numbers attached to that will prove to stay the same or worsen. There isn't the same "what if" tag placed on him. If numbers are the end all be all for the evaluation i don't see where the room to say what if he's a bigger whomever or better passing whatchamacallit exist. Might be the reason i weigh numbers only but so far.

He will never have the bounce or first step to be an elite or (one could argue) average NBA athlete, but a kid who was putting cannonballs into the backboard just a year ago is now 40% from distance with ability to hit off the bounce and catch. Tells me there's enough work ethic in there to figure out "i might need to add a floater to my finishing around the cup" "i'll need to be more technically sound on how i navigate these picks to make up for lack of burst" "gotta tighten this handle to create the space i otherwise wouldn't have so i can get off these looks i've put hours and hours of time and repetition into hitting". Doesn't automatically mean he will also doesn't mean he won't.

So when i see "what if he's a 4" taller Russell Westbrook" despite having nothing in common with what makes Russ Russ outside of the energy they play with (and granted i'm assuming that was an exaggeration as an example) I gotta wonder where that trigger in the brain losses access.

I'm not gonna die on the hill of this Russ comparison, but I do think they were pretty similar as prospects. Sensational athletes, very high bball IQ, great energy/motor, but questionable scoring touch and shaky jumpshots held them back from being #1 pick types. Barnes with slightly superior physical tools on account of his size, Russ just a bit more polished offensively, but overall people are either excited about them or wary of them for all the same reasons going into the draft.

As for Cade, I don't think he's that far off Barnes offensively (with Cade lacking Barnes' explosiveness, Barnes lacking Cade's jumper, and perhaps generously calling playmaking ability a wash). But there's a huge gap on defense, where Barnes realistically projects to guard 1-4, while Cade is a bit of a 3/4 tweener at the next level. So I'd much rather take Barnes, who I'm very confident will at least be a positive contributor on defense.

[azcatz11]

if you said it, then i missed it. Who is your number 1?

I have Sengun #1, followed by Barnes and Mobley. Numbers guy, in case that wasn't obvious enough, haha.

wait u have Sengun #1 overall?

now that's a hot take...hotter than my RJ Hampton #1 overall last yr

That's all he posts on here - he must be part of his family or something

[Charm]

I have Sengun #1, followed by Barnes and Mobley. Numbers guy, in case that wasn't obvious enough, haha.

wait u have Sengun #1 overall?

now that's a hot take...hotter than my RJ Hampton #1 overall last yr

That's all he posts on here - he must be part of his family or something

I'm sorry, I'll try to be more obnoxious about my other opinions for a change

[azcatz11]

wait u have Sengun #1 overall?

now that's a hot take...hotter than my RJ Hampton #1 overall last yr

That's all he posts on here - he must be part of his family or something

I'm sorry, I'll try to be more obnoxious about my other opinions for a change

Haha - doesn't bother me. It's a free forum after all

[buzzkilloton]

https://deanondraft.com/2021/06/18/is-cade-cunningham-clearly-the-best-prospect-in-2021/

This backs up a lot of what I'm seeing with Cade.

Dean is an analytics guru who questions Cade's Efficiency, Passing IQ, Shot Selection, and Motor/Effort. Just too many warts for a so called clear cut #1.

Dean Demarkis self proclaimed anaylytics guru this is hilarious. Deans background is coming from the 2+2 poker forums sports sub forum where there is a NBA thread. Harlabob used to post there many years ago. I've seen alot of Deans posts over the years way before he started a sports blog. He was a pro poker player who moved into sportsbetting.

Deans whole thing on his blog and twitter is to make against the grain takes to get views. For example last season 1. Onyeka Okongwu. I'd be careful with using him as your guy he doesnt watch prospects in person or travel to see them. Hes entertaining but much better draft sources with NBA connections to follow for draft stuff like Givony and Hollinger. Dean has some good takes and bad takes I read his work but I wouldnt go quote it as gospel to back up my points.

He was slowing down on his draft work. He was on talking about going into the "pick up women" sector not that long ago for his side projects. Recently hes been picking up again but hes not all that active outside of draft time.

[Cammo101]

I think the ultimate takeaway here is that Cade has been the favorite to go #1 for so long that it makes him seem like more of a sure thing than he actually is. Like he is some sort of elite franchise changer. I have Cade as the top guy in this draft, but he is not an elite, can't miss top guy. The difference between him and guys like Green and Mobley is negligible.

[buzzkilloton]

I think the ultimate takeaway here is that Cade has been the favorite to go #1 for so long that it makes him seem like more of a sure thing than he actually is. Like he is some sort of elite franchise changer. I have Cade as the top guy in this draft, but he is not an elite, can't miss top guy. The difference between him and guys like Green and Mobley is negligible.

Hes surely not a LBJ/Zion/AD type one pick. Hes a worthy one pick though. Better then some 1 picks and worse then some.

One interesting thing about Cade was he was considered the 1 prospect in highschool everywhere but ESPN going into his college season. The knack on him was his 3pt shooting wasnt good. After working hard on it now his 3pt shooting is the trait everyone hypes. A guy like that who can turn a weakness around in one year and turn it into one of their strong points is a guy whos going to improve other aspects like handles and adding a floater. Cades not a finished product hes shown hes still making dramatic improvements to his game and he will continue to do so.

The difference between him and Mobley/Green is enough that the teams under us are trying to move up to pick one to get him. Cavs,Pels,Thunder, and Rockets all interested. The Rockets beat writer from the athletic just wrote the Rockets would love to get Cade. He even wrote he would offer 4 picks to move up to get him.

https://theathletic.com/2700614/2021/07/12/rockets-trade-possibilities-who-says-no-in-potential-deals-for-no-2-pick-in-nba-draft/

"Offer: Rockets trade the No. 2 pick in the 2021 NBA Draft, the No. 23 pick in the 2021 NBA Draft, its own first-round pick in the 2023 NBA Draft and gives Detroit its future first-round back for the No. 1 pick in the 2021 NBA Draft"

Deal or no deal?

Deal.

For starters, let’s just reiterate that as much as the Rockets like Green, they love Cunningham. There’s no question how badly Houston wanted deputy commissioner Mark Tatum to flip their team card last during the lottery show a few weeks ago."

[buzzkilloton]

That's funny because aren't you a Green fan and this guy has Green not even in the top 4.

I am a Green guy, and I very much disagree with his assessment of him. That doesn't invalidate the flaws that he points out about Cade though.

so his opinion counts when it's on Cade but not Green?

Hes only a "analytics guru" when discussing the negative traits of Cade Cunningham. No guru when discussing negative traits of Jalen Green.

4.Cade
5.Wagner
6.Giddey
7.Sengun
8.Green

His big board Cade 4 and Green 8 under Wagner,Giddey,Sengun hes not the guru there. Ignore that it means nothing.

https://deanondraft.com/category/big-boards/