Kawhi undergoes surgery for partial ACL tear

[TrueLAfan]

So I’m not a medical doctor, but here’s how I think this goes.

The surgery to repair a partially torn (Grade II) or completely torn (Grade III) ACL is, as wco81 says, exactly the same. The difference is in the amount of other damage to the knee resulting or occurring with the ACL tear. People with Grade II tears usually can walk okay after the injury. (Like Kawhi.) Maybe even jog. But they can’t go side to side—the knee is unstable—and there are “pops” or “clicks” and pain no matter what. Still, the knee doesn’t have a lot of extra damage. With a Grade III tear, which is often called a rupture, there’s more damage to other ligaments and knee structures. You can’t walk, or walk without a lot of help and/or a huge limp, with a Grade III tear. Recovery is longer with a Grade III than a Grade II because there’s more bad stuff to recover from.

How long? Grade II is 6-9 months; Grade III is 9-12 months. Spencer Dinwiddie apparently had a classic Grade II tear and not much else. He was cleared for all basketball activities in a bit under 6 months—which is at the upper end of the scale. I doubt Kawhi will be there. I think hoping Kawhi is cleared before mid-February is wishful thinking. Best case scenario is probably mid-March, which is more like 8 to 8.5 months. Here’s a funny thing that wco81 alluded, Kawhi-related; we don’t know when he had surgery. You’re probably thinking Sure we know. The team announced it. Yes, we released a statement that Kawhi Leonard had had surgery for a partial ACL tear. No dates. I would not be at all surprised if he had had surgery before the end of the Phoenix series—more like the beginning of the month.

In terms of resigning, what I think will happen is that Kawhi will opt in for this year. He’ll still be able to get the Supermax extension next year and will lose, relatively speaking, a small amount of money. He and his group can assess how well the team handles the rehab and press. This is a huge deal because, as we all know, San Antonio screwed that up. If Kawhi and his group are unhappy with the Clippers, I think they’ll do what they had the Spurs do—pursue a sign-and-trade. I agree that he’s going to stay; my bet is that he goes for the opt-in. It gives everyone the most flexibility.

[madmaxmedia]

I have no idea if you’re right, but it seems to corroborate with observations about others and makes some sense of conflicting information.

Opting in does seem like a likely scenario, which is interesting in that it was extremely unlikely before the injury. The injury sucks no two ways about it, but beyond the missed time there are other ramifications that will play out- one of which was the toughness shown by the team the last few weeks in response to the injury.

I agree it’s quite likely the surgery happened sometime before the announcement. I imagine he took some time to make absolutely sure about the diagnosis and game plan going forward, other than that there’s absolutely no reason to delay the surgery beyond that, it helps no one least of all himself.

[wco81]

I had my ACL over 30 years ago. They told me it was a complete tear. But I didn't have surgery for a few months. Swelling went down a lot after about a month and I could walk, even jog a bit, but I knew not to sprint or try to jump off the knee.

Doctor even told me I didn't have to get the surgery, that I could do low-intensity activities like hiking. But did say not doing the surgery could cause complications like arthritis decades later.

Well of course I got the surgery. They didn't do an MRI back then and they said the one thing they were uncertain about was whether there was meniscus damage to clean up, which they wouldn't know until they put the arthroscope in, before opening up the knee wider.

No meniscus damage and had a pretty good recovery, probably got as fit as I ever been during rehab. It felt good after 6-8 months but I didn't try to play hoops until more like 10-11 months, more out of caution, though I did other things.

Of course, my rehab was nothing like the rehab process and personnel which pro athletes have access to, especially these days.

[KL2]

I agree with most anonymous polled execs that Leonard still opts out. He’ll sign the 1+1 and get his big contract next off season. He didn’t leave all that money on the table in SA and Toronto to get shortchanged in LA. If Durant can get his max after a ruptured Achilles the Clippers won’t blink giving Leonard the max for this.

If he’s out for the season I hope they’ll come out and say so. None of this he’s rehabbing with intent to return or whatever. That may be the plan at this time, of course, but if it changes let it it be known.

All cases are different but Leonard, his team, and the Clippers might keep tabs on Bryant and Dinwiddie to see how they look after such surgeries too.

[donemilio21]

This could have been diagnosed within a day of happening. This happened 3+ weeks ago. Why is he having surgery now and we are finding out now? If he has kept the injury news from the team, we should NOT resign him. To be honest, I don't trust the guy. Let some other team take the risk of Kawhi sitting for two years (yes, he very well may sit for two, as I doubt our medical team or FO has any say when he can play) while getting paid $80M.

[donemilio21]

what's the usual timeline for recovery for a partial ACL tear? is it always a year-long thing?

Kevin O'Connor says it is, supposedly requires the same full reconstruction surgery, that is your replace the original ACL, you can't stitch it up.

So they may have thrown in the "partial" to give hope but they also didn't say when he had surgery. Probably would have been better if he has surgery shortly after the diagnosed it.


So now, this adds a wrinkle to his contract status. Maybe guarantees it even more that he will opt out and maybe sign a 1-year bridge contract to a 5-year super Max.

He's left money on the table moving on from Spurs and Raptors and now with this injury, may want to maximize what could be his last contract.

Clippers have no choice but to accommodate him at this point right? Him opting out (to sign a bigger 1-year deal) wouldn't give the Clippers a window of cap space to sign someone else.

They have to hope that after however long a rehab, he'll still be the player he was. So next May or June, the question will be whether Kawhi might be ready in round 1 or 2 but Clippers may have to really have things work out well to be safely in the playoffs instead of in a 7-10 position.

Most money Kawhi could make is not using his player option and continue 2021-2022 season in current contract, but sign an extension right away with full 4 year amount of 40% cap for 10+ years veteran max. that runs through 2022-2026. Total amount of money is around 5 year 240 million USD for the next5 years(2021-2026). If kawhi use the opiton to become FA, other teams can only offer him around 4/195. If this injury means Kawhi to get as much money as possible without any risk, then Clippers obviously the best choice. I think he was resign with us 90% of possibility before this news. Now I think it's 99%

Do we want to sign someone to such a large contract before we see him recover from the injury though? What if he doesn't see court for two+ years? We will be in salary cap hell with no draft picks until 2027. We can't control his opt in but it'd be stupid of us to sign him to an extension.

[wco81]

What’s your alternative if you don’t sign him?

Nex year May be lost for contention but the follow8ng year?

Whom can the Clipper acquire who been all NBA many times, is an MVP level player?

No guarantees hat h could return to hat form but after all the assets the team gave up, they have to double down?

[Clemenza]

Read on Twitter

[wco81]

Bill Simmons and Ryan Russillo are suggesting that Kawhi kept the team in the dark about the extent of his injury.

Kawhi and other players distrust team medical staff so it may be that he saw only his doctors for this injury.

So if the Clippers give him super Max, is this situation going to continue, the team has to take word on his health?

May explain why it took so long to confirm an ACL tear. Really most experienced orthopedist can diagnose right away, even without MRI.

So for whatever reason, Kawhi withheld this info, including from the team which is going to pay him $240 million?

[donemilio21]

Skip Bayless said this

“He had the surgery, and the Clippers weren’t even aware he was going to have the surgery until Kawhi and company called them yesterday and said, ‘We need to go ahead and release that we had surgery,”

Could he have had surgery without telling the team?

[KL2]

I’ll give Skip credit for calling the surgery last week but I’m going to wait until someone like Woj, Haynes, or Shams report if there is trouble behind the scenes. In SA there were leaks every day while Toronto kept quiet until he left. So far nothing from the Clippers.

Everyone knows Leonard has his own team of doctors and likes to keep things private. I’ll give them the benefit of doubt for now that they’ve kept the Clippers in the loop. For arguments sake let’s say they did keep mum on the extent of the injury or had surgery without notifying the team they’ll have to provide medical records before contracts are signed right? If for any reason Clippers feel they’re being lied to you walk away.

At least we’ll know in a couple weeks which way things will fall.

[esqtvd]

I don't think it's right that Kawhi's still leaving the org hanging as to his future plans.

OTOH if he's as angry as Bayless says he is, Kawhi feels no obligation to the org whatsoever.

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/skip-bayless-hints-kawhi-leonard-leaving-clippers-injury-mess

The handling of Leonard's injury was confusing at the time. During a postgame presser in the Western Conference Semifinals, Leonard proclaimed that his knee is 'all good' but was later ruled out indefinitely after previously having been declared 'questionable.'


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If Bayless' sources are correct on Leonard feeling as though his injury was misdiagnosed, it's certainly worth monitoring. To be fair, Bayless was the first to report that Leonard's knee surgery would require surgery and was more serious than initially led to believe.

[NippySudz]

I don't think it's right that Kawhi's still leaving the org hanging as to his future plans.

OTOH if he's as angry as Bayless says he is, Kawhi feels no obligation to the org whatsoever.

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/skip-bayless-hints-kawhi-leonard-leaving-clippers-injury-mess

The handling of Leonard's injury was confusing at the time. During a postgame presser in the Western Conference Semifinals, Leonard proclaimed that his knee is 'all good' but was later ruled out indefinitely after previously having been declared 'questionable.'


Read on Twitter
?

If Bayless' sources are correct on Leonard feeling as though his injury was misdiagnosed, it's certainly worth monitoring. To be fair, Bayless was the first to report that Leonard's knee surgery would require surgery and was more serious than initially led to believe.

if that's true, I put this on balmer. He didn't replace Sterlings medical staff. What an idiot if true.

[KL2]

If there was any truth to this I think more would be reporting on it. Still going to wait until Woj, Haynes, or Shams say something about it.

When there are leaks one party usually benefits from it. I don’t see how Leonard or the Clippers benefit from this one.

Clippers certainly don’t. Why would you put it out there that our doctors suck and Leonard is going to leave because of it.

I guess Leonard’s camp could be twisting the Clippers arm to get the contract he wants if they feel the team is balking after this injury. But would you really use Bayless as your mouthpiece instead of one of the other 3? If he’s really unhappy though he could opt in, collect his paycheck while sitting out, and sign a max elsewhere next summer.

[Clemenza]

How did the team doctors misdiagnose him? Once that bump from Ingles happened and his knee flared up he was out of the game and and basically done for the season. Did the doctors and coaches say he was cleared to play and he should get back on the floor? I get the misdiagnoses when he was on the Spurs as that situation dragged out for an entire 82 game season. How do we get a misdiagnoses in a week and a half span where he never touched foot on the court again and the team withheld info to the public about his condition so as not to anger Kawhi and his Uncle Dennis?

[og15]

I'm giving it time to see what happens, but I'll say this. As much as I like Kawhi as a player on the court, he is and has been one of the most difficult players for a team to deal with in terms of everything off the court. He really does have a diva like presentation of himself, and him being quiet has sort of made us all think otherwise in the past, but everythings has to be so difficult with him.

[wco81]

We heard these stories about how he basically ran the team last year, arriving late at practices and even games.

He had the leverage in the relationship with the team.

So it wouldn’t be surprising if he was the one deciding how to manage the messaging or plans for dealing with this injury, would it?

Let’s face it he’s got the Clippers over a barrel. Talent is king in the NBA.

[KL2]

I agree I wouldn’t want to deal with Leonard or his team. But there’s a big difference between showing up late to practice and having surgery before notifying the team.

Skip isn’t just saying Leonard is accusing the team of misdiagnosing his injury but that he withheld the severity of the injury and failed to let the team know he needed surgery. Skip says Leonard had the surgery without the team knowing about it and only after did they tell them to send out a press release. He even goes further by suggesting Leonard is gone by dropping another bombshell when free agency opens.

This is a huge story if true and yet no one else is running with it or shooting it down. I think that’s odd.

If this is a negotiating tactic by Leonard’s team it’s a dumb one. Clippers have all the leverage. If Leonard wants to walk he’s leaving another boat load of money on the table. If he wants to play hide and seek with his injury/medical records the Clippers should move on. Let another team pay him.

[esqtvd]

I agree I wouldn’t want to deal with Leonard or his team. But there’s a big difference between showing up late to practice and having surgery before notifying the team.

Skip isn’t just saying Leonard is accusing the team of misdiagnosing his injury but that he withheld the severity of the injury and failed to let the team know he needed surgery. Skip says Leonard had the surgery without the team knowing about it and only after did they tell them to send out a press release. He even goes further by suggesting Leonard is gone by dropping another bombshell when free agency opens.

This is a huge story if true and yet no one else is running with it or shooting it down. I think that’s odd.

If this is a negotiating tactic by Leonard’s team it’s a dumb one. Clippers have all the leverage. If Leonard wants to walk he’s leaving another boat load of money on the table. If he wants to play hide and seek with his injury/medical records the Clippers should move on. Let another team pay him.

I don't know who or what to believe. But anyone who d-bagged me for saying Kawhi re-signing was NOT in the bag can GFY now

[MartinToVaught]

This is the same medical staff that misdiagnosed one of Blake's injuries, so sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if it actually did happen again with Kawhi.