Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!!

[_MidNight_]

Really surprised there's no Suggs workout film yet.

It's almost as if he doesn't want to go higher than where he's projected

Seriously tho, we've seen Cade, Green Mobley, Kuminga, Barnes etc... Where is the guy?

[WigginsNation]

mobley strikes me as a duncan type, crazy. suggs strikes me as a jkidd. You just cant go wrong.

Mobley is a Duncan type?? Ie. like the best power forward of all time?? That’s a ridiculous comparison. Duncan had the fundamentals and moves down-pat, and he had a strong well built body coming into the league. That’s not Mobley.

[Clutch0z24]

Read on Twitter

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Same thing could have been said about like a million other players who had great physical measurements but never panned out.

Not at all, Barnes is a solid rebounder, finishes at the rim well, plays good defense with the measurements to improve to be a great defender. He also is an incredible passer/creator who doesn't turn it over. He is super skilled and plays very intelligently, but without the shot.

He averaged 4 rebounds a game in college , i would not say he is a solid rebounder....He is an energy player at best....In the NBA he will be that Junkyard Jerome Williams Type of player at best IMO ....Which is not worthy of a 4th pick IMO....He will end up just being a solid rotation player imo we can do better at 4

[So Clutch]

Same thing could have been said about like a million other players who had great physical measurements but never panned out.

Not at all, Barnes is a solid rebounder, finishes at the rim well, plays good defense with the measurements to improve to be a great defender. He also is an incredible passer/creator who doesn't turn it over. He is super skilled and plays very intelligently, but without the shot.

He averaged 4 rebounds a game in college , i would not say he is a solid rebounder....He is an energy player at best....In the NBA he will be that Junkyard Jerome Williams Type of player at best IMO ....Which is not worthy of a 4th pick IMO....He will end up just being a solid rotation player imo we can do better at 4

That’s definitely selling him short. He’s a good passer and playmaker as well. The gamble is definitely his shooting. People are concerned about Suggs shooting and Barnes is definitely a step behind that. Hard to create consistently at the NBA level without being an offensive threat yourself.


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[Yallbecrazy]

Same thing could have been said about like a million other players who had great physical measurements but never panned out.

Not at all, Barnes is a solid rebounder, finishes at the rim well, plays good defense with the measurements to improve to be a great defender. He also is an incredible passer/creator who doesn't turn it over. He is super skilled and plays very intelligently, but without the shot.

He averaged 4 rebounds a game in college , i would not say he is a solid rebounder....He is an energy player at best....In the NBA he will be that Junkyard Jerome Williams Type of player at best IMO ....Which is not worthy of a 4th pick IMO....He will end up just being a solid rotation player imo we can do better at 4

8.7 oRB% is really good for a wing, he was often playing in huge lineups on the perimeter so he didn't get many defensive rebounds. Energy players usually have poor passing/BBIQs and Barnes has elite passing

[DG88]

Same thing could have been said about like a million other players who had great physical measurements but never panned out.

Not at all, Barnes is a solid rebounder, finishes at the rim well, plays good defense with the measurements to improve to be a great defender. He also is an incredible passer/creator who doesn't turn it over. He is super skilled and plays very intelligently, but without the shot.

He averaged 4 rebounds a game in college , i would not say he is a solid rebounder....He is an energy player at best....In the NBA he will be that Junkyard Jerome Williams Type of player at best IMO ....Which is not worthy of a 4th pick IMO....He will end up just being a solid rotation player imo we can do better at 4

He reminds me of a bigger Andre Iguodala, which isn't a bad player but not worthy of a top 4 pick. From 5-7 yes to get an all around glue guy on your team that would great at that tier level of the draft.

[PD28]

Not at all, Barnes is a solid rebounder, finishes at the rim well, plays good defense with the measurements to improve to be a great defender. He also is an incredible passer/creator who doesn't turn it over. He is super skilled and plays very intelligently, but without the shot.

He averaged 4 rebounds a game in college , i would not say he is a solid rebounder....He is an energy player at best....In the NBA he will be that Junkyard Jerome Williams Type of player at best IMO ....Which is not worthy of a 4th pick IMO....He will end up just being a solid rotation player imo we can do better at 4

He reminds me of a bigger Andre Iguodala, which isn't a bad player but not worthy of a top 4 pick. From 5-7 yes to get an all around glue guy on your team that would great at that tier level of the draft.

I bet someone will counter with, well Iggy is a hall of famer...yes playing with one of the greatest dynasties of all time lol. If he never signed with GSW, he'd never sniff the Hall.

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[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Anyone have a subscription to get his board?

1. Cade
2. Mobley
3. Barnes
4. Sengun
5. Green
6. Suggs
7. Wagner
8. Kuminga
9. Jalen Johnson
10. Giddey


2. Evan Mobley, PF/C, USC, Freshman

Spoiler:

Even when the game is going small, Mobley has an argument to be the top pick. His basic premise is that he can do most of the things perimeter guys can, but he’s the size of a center. You can make an argument that Mobley is better at self-created shots inside the 3-point line than Cunningham is, and is also better at defending the perimeter. We call Mobley a “big” and Cunningham a “wing,” but other than Cunningham’s shooting, Mobley is better at most of the wing stuff, too.

In 2021, however, a big has to be pretty darned good to make a case for himself as being more valuable than a wing with size. Surely there are exceptions — Nikola Jokic won the MVP award, and Joel Embiid was the East’s most dominant player this season — but the bar is higher for bigs.

Mobley is fortunately the right kind of big because it is going to be very hard to play him off the court in the playoffs. His skinny frame, skill set and defensive mobility almost immediately conjure images of Chris Bosh. In particular, some of his defensive clips had me cackling, as guards embarrassed themselves trying to take him off the bounce. He’s great at keeping his feet moving and using his length to contest shots when picking up guards in switches.

That said, you wish Mobley was better at some of the things that actually involve being big. He’s not notably good at posting up, owing in part to his very slender frame. His rebound rate was unimpressive, and he gets pushed around near the basket, where his thin frame becomes a liability. Statistically, he’s a good-but-not-great shot blocker, although that partly results from how often he had to defend on the perimeter. His motor doesn’t always run super hot, either.

Offensively, Mobley hints at upside in all kinds of directions but doesn’t have one overwhelming skill at the moment. As noted above, he’s pretty good when he can attack off the bounce, even against guards. He can put the ball on the floor, score off the dribble as a driver from the free-throw area and finish near the cup. He shows rudiments of stretch ability, making 12 3-pointers on the season and shooting 69.4 percent from the line, and his form suggests he can at least become a break-even proposition as a shooter.

Mobley has All-Star upside, with shades of Bosh and Pau Gasol in his game, but he has work ahead of him to get there.

6. Jalen Suggs, PG, Gonzaga, Freshman

Spoiler:

Suggs reminds me of Jason Kidd in a lot of ways, although the passing is more solid than spectacular. He has pretty good size for a point guard and great end-to-end speed, plus he has absolutely tremendous anticipation at the defensive end. Suggs reads the game almost like a defensive back, closing on the ball with speed to intercept passes. His feet are only average on the ball, and he can get caught reaching, but overall, he projects as a tough defender.

Offensively, his pace in transition is an obvious benefit that helps grease the way to easy baskets, but his half-court game remains a work in progress. Suggs shot 33.7 percent from 3 and 75.4 percent from the line, so teams will dare him to prove he can knock down shots consistently. The good news is that Suggs has a quick release that he’s comfortable getting off the dribble, and he shows pretty good footwork getting into pull-ups in the painted area on pivots and up-and-unders. He doesn’t need to improve his percentages that much to turn the shooting from a liability to a strength.

Bigger picture, the upside as an elite offensive player is maybe a bit limited by the shooting and the lack of elite pick-and-roll craft. That’s why Suggs is a bit lower on my board than some others. After my top five prospects, however, Suggs is the obvious pick due to his long-term starter potential and fairly high floor for such a young player.

This is why John Hollinger is an idiot

[Clutch0z24]

Not at all, Barnes is a solid rebounder, finishes at the rim well, plays good defense with the measurements to improve to be a great defender. He also is an incredible passer/creator who doesn't turn it over. He is super skilled and plays very intelligently, but without the shot.

He averaged 4 rebounds a game in college , i would not say he is a solid rebounder....He is an energy player at best....In the NBA he will be that Junkyard Jerome Williams Type of player at best IMO ....Which is not worthy of a 4th pick IMO....He will end up just being a solid rotation player imo we can do better at 4

That’s definitely selling him short. He’s a good passer and playmaker as well. The gamble is definitely his shooting. People are concerned about Suggs shooting and Barnes is definitely a step behind that. Hard to create consistently at the NBA level without being an offensive threat yourself.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I guess it just bugs me when players get hyped up and over valued cause of these "Writers" and "Reporters"....Barnes is a decent prospect but he was projected to be in the 7-10 range all year long, Not Sniffing the top end of the draft and now based off what did he jump from that range all the way up to top 5 where the Top 4 have been at the top of the board all year long without any doubts or questions....

The Top 4 are Just so much more polished and have way more upside than anyone else outside of that top 4 that its not even close tbh...

Barnes would been awesome to get at 7 if we stayed there but at 4 people need to stop reaching for potential busts when we will never get a high end pick like this for many years ....You can find players like Barnes...The Talent of this Top 4 is to good to pass up on...I don't wanna be the Pistons and get Darko'd

[Risk101]

Jalen Suggs could be Devin Booker type potential if he can improve his scoring. He seems like he could be a small ball 2. Just my opinion.

[Clutch0z24]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Anyone have a subscription to get his board?

1. Cade
2. Mobley
3. Barnes
4. Sengun
5. Green
6. Suggs
7. Wagner
8. Kuminga
9. Jalen Johnson
10. Giddey


2. Evan Mobley, PF/C, USC, Freshman

Spoiler:

Even when the game is going small, Mobley has an argument to be the top pick. His basic premise is that he can do most of the things perimeter guys can, but he’s the size of a center. You can make an argument that Mobley is better at self-created shots inside the 3-point line than Cunningham is, and is also better at defending the perimeter. We call Mobley a “big” and Cunningham a “wing,” but other than Cunningham’s shooting, Mobley is better at most of the wing stuff, too.

In 2021, however, a big has to be pretty darned good to make a case for himself as being more valuable than a wing with size. Surely there are exceptions — Nikola Jokic won the MVP award, and Joel Embiid was the East’s most dominant player this season — but the bar is higher for bigs.

Mobley is fortunately the right kind of big because it is going to be very hard to play him off the court in the playoffs. His skinny frame, skill set and defensive mobility almost immediately conjure images of Chris Bosh. In particular, some of his defensive clips had me cackling, as guards embarrassed themselves trying to take him off the bounce. He’s great at keeping his feet moving and using his length to contest shots when picking up guards in switches.

That said, you wish Mobley was better at some of the things that actually involve being big. He’s not notably good at posting up, owing in part to his very slender frame. His rebound rate was unimpressive, and he gets pushed around near the basket, where his thin frame becomes a liability. Statistically, he’s a good-but-not-great shot blocker, although that partly results from how often he had to defend on the perimeter. His motor doesn’t always run super hot, either.

Offensively, Mobley hints at upside in all kinds of directions but doesn’t have one overwhelming skill at the moment. As noted above, he’s pretty good when he can attack off the bounce, even against guards. He can put the ball on the floor, score off the dribble as a driver from the free-throw area and finish near the cup. He shows rudiments of stretch ability, making 12 3-pointers on the season and shooting 69.4 percent from the line, and his form suggests he can at least become a break-even proposition as a shooter.

Mobley has All-Star upside, with shades of Bosh and Pau Gasol in his game, but he has work ahead of him to get there.

6. Jalen Suggs, PG, Gonzaga, Freshman

Spoiler:

Suggs reminds me of Jason Kidd in a lot of ways, although the passing is more solid than spectacular. He has pretty good size for a point guard and great end-to-end speed, plus he has absolutely tremendous anticipation at the defensive end. Suggs reads the game almost like a defensive back, closing on the ball with speed to intercept passes. His feet are only average on the ball, and he can get caught reaching, but overall, he projects as a tough defender.

Offensively, his pace in transition is an obvious benefit that helps grease the way to easy baskets, but his half-court game remains a work in progress. Suggs shot 33.7 percent from 3 and 75.4 percent from the line, so teams will dare him to prove he can knock down shots consistently. The good news is that Suggs has a quick release that he’s comfortable getting off the dribble, and he shows pretty good footwork getting into pull-ups in the painted area on pivots and up-and-unders. He doesn’t need to improve his percentages that much to turn the shooting from a liability to a strength.

Bigger picture, the upside as an elite offensive player is maybe a bit limited by the shooting and the lack of elite pick-and-roll craft. That’s why Suggs is a bit lower on my board than some others. After my top five prospects, however, Suggs is the obvious pick due to his long-term starter potential and fairly high floor for such a young player.

This is why John Hollinger is an idiot

Whoever pays for his takes is a fool.....The Dude really is way off and throws **** at the wall and hope it sticks

[raptor jesus]

He averaged 4 rebounds a game in college , i would not say he is a solid rebounder....He is an energy player at best....In the NBA he will be that Junkyard Jerome Williams Type of player at best IMO ....Which is not worthy of a 4th pick IMO....He will end up just being a solid rotation player imo we can do better at 4

He reminds me of a bigger Andre Iguodala, which isn't a bad player but not worthy of a top 4 pick. From 5-7 yes to get an all around glue guy on your team that would great at that tier level of the draft.

I bet someone will counter with, well Iggy is a hall of famer...yes playing with one of the greatest dynasties of all time lol. If he never signed with GSW, he'd never sniff the Hall.

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He was an All-Star and Olympian before Golden State; but I'm not sure why I'm dignifying that point - invalidating his Golden State tenure is, of course, ridiculous. He was a Finals MVP and made tons of huge plays on multiple title teams. You guys might want to revisit the history of 4th overal picks tho, it's not all rainbows and sunshine - getting a player with similar impact to Igoudala would be a steal there.

[WuTang_CMB]

PDWeb and Rick O'Donnell did a full breakdown of Mobley's game for those who want to watch. PDWeb only has a few video breakdowns of some prospects in this draft. Hoping he can produce more.

Watch on YouTube

;t=2s&ab_channel=PD

I have no doubt Raps will transform him into a big wing type from the 5 then keep developing his skills like a Giannis type when he drives. Masai always on the hunt for the next star and I think Mobley is that guy

[OAKLEY_2]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Anyone have a subscription to get his board?

1. Cade
2. Mobley
3. Barnes
4. Sengun
5. Green
6. Suggs
7. Wagner
8. Kuminga
9. Jalen Johnson
10. Giddey


2. Evan Mobley, PF/C, USC, Freshman

Spoiler:

Even when the game is going small, Mobley has an argument to be the top pick. His basic premise is that he can do most of the things perimeter guys can, but he’s the size of a center. You can make an argument that Mobley is better at self-created shots inside the 3-point line than Cunningham is, and is also better at defending the perimeter. We call Mobley a “big” and Cunningham a “wing,” but other than Cunningham’s shooting, Mobley is better at most of the wing stuff, too.

In 2021, however, a big has to be pretty darned good to make a case for himself as being more valuable than a wing with size. Surely there are exceptions — Nikola Jokic won the MVP award, and Joel Embiid was the East’s most dominant player this season — but the bar is higher for bigs.

Mobley is fortunately the right kind of big because it is going to be very hard to play him off the court in the playoffs. His skinny frame, skill set and defensive mobility almost immediately conjure images of Chris Bosh. In particular, some of his defensive clips had me cackling, as guards embarrassed themselves trying to take him off the bounce. He’s great at keeping his feet moving and using his length to contest shots when picking up guards in switches.

That said, you wish Mobley was better at some of the things that actually involve being big. He’s not notably good at posting up, owing in part to his very slender frame. His rebound rate was unimpressive, and he gets pushed around near the basket, where his thin frame becomes a liability. Statistically, he’s a good-but-not-great shot blocker, although that partly results from how often he had to defend on the perimeter. His motor doesn’t always run super hot, either.

Offensively, Mobley hints at upside in all kinds of directions but doesn’t have one overwhelming skill at the moment. As noted above, he’s pretty good when he can attack off the bounce, even against guards. He can put the ball on the floor, score off the dribble as a driver from the free-throw area and finish near the cup. He shows rudiments of stretch ability, making 12 3-pointers on the season and shooting 69.4 percent from the line, and his form suggests he can at least become a break-even proposition as a shooter.

Mobley has All-Star upside, with shades of Bosh and Pau Gasol in his game, but he has work ahead of him to get there.

6. Jalen Suggs, PG, Gonzaga, Freshman

Spoiler:

Suggs reminds me of Jason Kidd in a lot of ways, although the passing is more solid than spectacular. He has pretty good size for a point guard and great end-to-end speed, plus he has absolutely tremendous anticipation at the defensive end. Suggs reads the game almost like a defensive back, closing on the ball with speed to intercept passes. His feet are only average on the ball, and he can get caught reaching, but overall, he projects as a tough defender.

Offensively, his pace in transition is an obvious benefit that helps grease the way to easy baskets, but his half-court game remains a work in progress. Suggs shot 33.7 percent from 3 and 75.4 percent from the line, so teams will dare him to prove he can knock down shots consistently. The good news is that Suggs has a quick release that he’s comfortable getting off the dribble, and he shows pretty good footwork getting into pull-ups in the painted area on pivots and up-and-unders. He doesn’t need to improve his percentages that much to turn the shooting from a liability to a strength.

Bigger picture, the upside as an elite offensive player is maybe a bit limited by the shooting and the lack of elite pick-and-roll craft. That’s why Suggs is a bit lower on my board than some others. After my top five prospects, however, Suggs is the obvious pick due to his long-term starter potential and fairly high floor for such a young player.

This is why John Hollinger is an idiot

Pretty much...this.

[Pointgod]

1. Cade
2. Mobley
3. Barnes
4. Sengun
5. Green
6. Suggs
7. Wagner
8. Kuminga
9. Jalen Johnson
10. Giddey


2. Evan Mobley, PF/C, USC, Freshman

Spoiler:

6. Jalen Suggs, PG, Gonzaga, Freshman

Spoiler:

This is why John Hollinger is an idiot

Whoever pays for his takes is a fool.....The Dude really is way off and throws **** at the wall and hope it sticks

John Hollinger is what happens when you’ve built a one dimensional career and religiously stick to that dimension just because it’s what your brand is built on, even if you’re hilariously wrong and look like an idiot. I know that’s not a mock draft but even as a big board it’s pretty ****.

[DatHomieYouHaTe]

1. Cade
2. Mobley
3. Barnes
4. Sengun
5. Green
6. Suggs
7. Wagner
8. Kuminga
9. Jalen Johnson
10. Giddey


2. Evan Mobley, PF/C, USC, Freshman

Spoiler:

6. Jalen Suggs, PG, Gonzaga, Freshman

Spoiler:

This is why John Hollinger is an idiot

Pretty much...this.

Check his mock last year. He was pretty spot on in terms of the good players for the most part

[Reeko]

Watch on YouTube

[Jadoogar]

1. Cade
2. Mobley
3. Barnes
4. Sengun
5. Green
6. Suggs
7. Wagner
8. Kuminga
9. Jalen Johnson
10. Giddey


2. Evan Mobley, PF/C, USC, Freshman

Spoiler:

6. Jalen Suggs, PG, Gonzaga, Freshman

Spoiler:

This is why John Hollinger is an idiot

Whoever pays for his takes is a fool.....The Dude really is way off and throws **** at the wall and hope it sticks

Everyone gets some picks wrong. What would be the point of every mock draft being the same?
For what's it worth, Hollinger had Haliburton #4 on his board last year.

[raptor jesus]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Anyone have a subscription to get his board?

1. Cade
2. Mobley
3. Barnes
4. Sengun
5. Green
6. Suggs
7. Wagner
8. Kuminga
9. Jalen Johnson
10. Giddey


2. Evan Mobley, PF/C, USC, Freshman

Spoiler:

Even when the game is going small, Mobley has an argument to be the top pick. His basic premise is that he can do most of the things perimeter guys can, but he’s the size of a center. You can make an argument that Mobley is better at self-created shots inside the 3-point line than Cunningham is, and is also better at defending the perimeter. We call Mobley a “big” and Cunningham a “wing,” but other than Cunningham’s shooting, Mobley is better at most of the wing stuff, too.

In 2021, however, a big has to be pretty darned good to make a case for himself as being more valuable than a wing with size. Surely there are exceptions — Nikola Jokic won the MVP award, and Joel Embiid was the East’s most dominant player this season — but the bar is higher for bigs.

Mobley is fortunately the right kind of big because it is going to be very hard to play him off the court in the playoffs. His skinny frame, skill set and defensive mobility almost immediately conjure images of Chris Bosh. In particular, some of his defensive clips had me cackling, as guards embarrassed themselves trying to take him off the bounce. He’s great at keeping his feet moving and using his length to contest shots when picking up guards in switches.

That said, you wish Mobley was better at some of the things that actually involve being big. He’s not notably good at posting up, owing in part to his very slender frame. His rebound rate was unimpressive, and he gets pushed around near the basket, where his thin frame becomes a liability. Statistically, he’s a good-but-not-great shot blocker, although that partly results from how often he had to defend on the perimeter. His motor doesn’t always run super hot, either.

Offensively, Mobley hints at upside in all kinds of directions but doesn’t have one overwhelming skill at the moment. As noted above, he’s pretty good when he can attack off the bounce, even against guards. He can put the ball on the floor, score off the dribble as a driver from the free-throw area and finish near the cup. He shows rudiments of stretch ability, making 12 3-pointers on the season and shooting 69.4 percent from the line, and his form suggests he can at least become a break-even proposition as a shooter.

Mobley has All-Star upside, with shades of Bosh and Pau Gasol in his game, but he has work ahead of him to get there.

6. Jalen Suggs, PG, Gonzaga, Freshman

Spoiler:

Suggs reminds me of Jason Kidd in a lot of ways, although the passing is more solid than spectacular. He has pretty good size for a point guard and great end-to-end speed, plus he has absolutely tremendous anticipation at the defensive end. Suggs reads the game almost like a defensive back, closing on the ball with speed to intercept passes. His feet are only average on the ball, and he can get caught reaching, but overall, he projects as a tough defender.

Offensively, his pace in transition is an obvious benefit that helps grease the way to easy baskets, but his half-court game remains a work in progress. Suggs shot 33.7 percent from 3 and 75.4 percent from the line, so teams will dare him to prove he can knock down shots consistently. The good news is that Suggs has a quick release that he’s comfortable getting off the dribble, and he shows pretty good footwork getting into pull-ups in the painted area on pivots and up-and-unders. He doesn’t need to improve his percentages that much to turn the shooting from a liability to a strength.

Bigger picture, the upside as an elite offensive player is maybe a bit limited by the shooting and the lack of elite pick-and-roll craft. That’s why Suggs is a bit lower on my board than some others. After my top five prospects, however, Suggs is the obvious pick due to his long-term starter potential and fairly high floor for such a young player.

This is why John Hollinger is an idiot

We won't be able to judge this for some time; but Hollinger could very well be closer to getting it right by going against the group think of mock drafts.

Go back and look at any draft and filter by win shares - the results are never in line with the order of selection.

e.g. 2016:

Win share rank/Pick
1/1
2/11
3/27
4/9
5/38
6/7
7/32
8/3
9/6
10/2

[DG88]

Watch on YouTube

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