2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

[70sFan]

Another good game from Milwaukee, their defense has been excellent after game 1. Booker had marvelous game, but it wasn't enough as Paul had one of his worst games of the season. Ayton disappointed as well tonight.

Giannis's block at the end is possibly the best defensive play this postseason, what a recovery!

I still don't like how Bucks treat Lopez when Giannis isn't on the court, but it seems that I won't get any other big Brook game. As long as they're winning, I can live with that.

Also, refs were absolutely terrible tonight. I'm not even talking about doing everything to prevent Booker from fouling out (it's too obvious to even talk about it). They missed a few fouls, they called some questionable ones and they even missed some easy whistles like giving the ball out of bounds for a wrong team. Seriously, the level of officiating in NBA has been very inconsistent this season and this game shows everything that's wrong with refs in this league. I really don't get it how you can tolerate such a massive underperformance among refs in such an important game.

[Colbinii]

Can't wait to read MTV's thoughts on CP3's performance tonight

I knew he was bad tonight, but when I saw that statline, I started wondering how Pablo Prigioni and Jason Terry managed to sneak onto the court in Bucks jerseys without anyone noticing.

Regardless of how the rest of this series plays out, it's time for people to tone down the "Point God" hero worship. CP3 has still only had one great series this playoffs and it was against a Campazzo-Rivers backcourt. The Suns are Booker and Ayton's team.

Well, Chris Paul has been better than Devin Booker in this series and that's with Jrue Holiday guarding him. So, there's that.

Before this game Booker was scoring less than 40% from the field, 33 % from 3 point land and scoring less points than CP3. Been miserable on defense as well.

Can't say this series has shown it is "Devin Booker's team".

Yes you can. Its the internet, and as MTV likes to show, you can say anything--true or not.

[frica]

Really wish NBA would adopt some FIBA rules.

[falcolombardi]

fiba and nba rules are basically the same, specially after fiba officially allowed gather steps, any notable difference comes down to better or worse refs

the 3 notable rules difference between fiba and nba are a shorter 3 point line (wouldnt be liked probably)
offensive goaltending (which i like but is not a huge difference)
and no seconds in the paint (which i like but would have the net effect of slightly less drives amd more jumpshots, a thingh most wouldnt like)

[Doctor MJ]

Those two non-calls on Booker to me just really show how badly broken refereeing is.

It was clear an example where the refs are thinking “We probably called one or two fouls on Booker we shouldn’t have and if we call another he’s out of the game and people will blame us, so we’ll not call the next one.”, and then they weren’t expecting Booker to be that stupid - and I mean this, I cannot believe how poor Bookers awareness was with 5 fouls. Any notion that Booker can be trusted to make sure he doesn’t foul out clearly is out the window.

But back to the refs:

They have managed to get trained for years to be this indefensibly bad, and the NBA needs to recognize that they need a fundamentally different system to be put in place.


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[Doctor MJ]

One other thing:

The idea that Paul has been better than Booker in this series is a bit silly to me.

The better of the two is always they one not guarded by Jrue. End of story.


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[Texas Chuck]

I always think its funny that we accept that the very best players in the world make mistakes, miss shots, miss rotations, are careless with the ball. Like its baked in. But we expect refs to be 100% perfect all the time in real speed without multiple looks/angles/super slomo dealing with incredible athletes moving at high rates of speed.

Seems absurd to me. Obviously the choosing to not foul out Booker is totally unacceptable and that ref should not work another game this Finals and have to earn his or her way back into ever working a playoff game again. But missing that a ball went off Tucker and not Booker or calling a foul on Tucker when he didn't foul the jump shooter or whatever, sorry some of that is going to happen and its okay.

Yes refs should be constantly evaluated and the best ones should work the biggest games and the worst should be replaced and the NBA needs to be doing more to increase their pool of refs and have more competition for the jobs. But in game expecting them to fet everything right when they don't have all the advantages you do seeing in slow motion and 5x. Nah. I disagree with you guys on that.

[Texas Chuck]

Can't wait to read MTV's thoughts on CP3's performance tonight

I knew he was bad tonight, but when I saw that statline, I started wondering how Pablo Prigioni and Jason Terry managed to sneak onto the court in Bucks jerseys without anyone noticing.

Regardless of how the rest of this series plays out, it's time for people to tone down the "Point God" hero worship. CP3 has still only had one great series this playoffs and it was against a Campazzo-Rivers backcourt. The Suns are Booker and Ayton's team.

Well, Chris Paul has been better than Devin Booker in this series and that's with Jrue Holiday guarding him. So, there's that.

Before this game Booker was scoring less than 40% from the field, 33 % from 3 point land and scoring less points than CP3. Been miserable on defense as well.

Can't say this series has shown it is "Devin Booker's team".

It's not just Booker's play either though he had a great 2 quarter stretch last night. His mental game is so bad. He intentionally took a foul on a good FT shooter that should have removed him from a tight game with lots of time left. He should have about 15 technical fouls in this series as he is constantly showing up refs, he's showed up Monty multiple times. For those who want to dismiss Paul as the primary reason for the Suns being here just look at how mature the rest of the roster now acts. Ayton a totally different guy. Bridges and Cam and Payne all clearly ready for whatever moment comes in ways they weren't last year. Some of that of course is Monty and some is natural progression but its also Paul. But because Booker already had this view of himself as Kobe, its clear he's still just doing what he always does. Some brilliant scoring mixed with a lot of just really dumb stuff that his team is protecting him from.

[Doctor MJ]

I always think its funny that we accept that the very best players in the world make mistakes, miss shots, miss rotations, are careless with the ball. Like its baked in. But we expect refs to be 100% perfect all the time in real speed without multiple looks/angles/super slomo dealing with incredible athletes moving at high rates of speed.

Seems absurd to me. Obviously the choosing to not foul out Booker is totally unacceptable and that ref should not work another game this Finals and have to earn his or her way back into ever working a playoff game again. But missing that a ball went off Tucker and not Booker or calling a foul on Tucker when he didn't foul the jump shooter or whatever, sorry some of that is going to happen and its okay.

Yes refs should be constantly evaluated and the best ones should work the biggest games and the worst should be replaced and the NBA needs to be doing more to increase their pool of refs and have more competition for the jobs. But in game expecting them to fet everything right when they don't have all the advantages you do seeing in slow motion and 5x. Nah. I disagree with you guys on that.

I’m talking about the situation where the refs clearly saw what happened and clearly didnt call what they saw.


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[Texas Chuck]

Other comments were made other than yours.

[parsnips33]

Thoughts on the game:

I kinda thought the Greek Freak nickname was corny at first, but it's really so appropriate. Giannis makes so many plays that just should not be possible for a human being. 1 man defensive wrecking crew at the end of the game.

Devin Booker out of a dribble hand-off is just ridiculous, the way he can totally flip his momentum on a dime to open up space is really impressive. All I could think of last night was could you imagine the 2 man game he would have with Jokic

Jrue Holiday has to have one of the least aesthetically pleasing offensive games in the league I think. Just the short strong guy at pickup who posts up every time because he can't shoot


I really hope this series goes to 7

[Texas Chuck]

Jrue Holiday has to have one of the least aesthetically pleasing offensive games in the league I think. Just the short strong guy at pickup who posts up every time because he can't shoot

He is fascinating. Obviously for most of his career he's been an inefficient scorer. This RS he was actually pretty good with a TS% close to 60% shooting nearly 40% from 3. But in the playoffs he's just really had a terrible time making shots of any kind. Missed a ton of layups even.

Yet even with that, its night and day the difference to the Bucks offense with he in place of Bledsoe in the playoffs. He continues to attack, he continues to make plays for others. He forces defenses to still defend him and that's just vital. It's part of why I try and remember to look past just made and missed shots when judging how a player performs offensively. He's not yet allowed any of his woes to cause him to stop doing what his team needs to do from him offensively.

And this defensive clinic as a small guard is just incredibly fun to watch. He and PJ Tucker on the same team playing on-ball defense is just such a treat and must be exhausting for Paul/Booker. Because while the Bucks do have to switch some neither of those guys just concede the switch like 99% of players in the league do.

Major props to Booker for the shots he was getting/hitting in the middle 2 quarters last night in light of that. But Jrue/Tucker's impact defensively is being felt.

[parsnips33]

Jrue Holiday has to have one of the least aesthetically pleasing offensive games in the league I think. Just the short strong guy at pickup who posts up every time because he can't shoot

He is fascinating. Obviously for most of his career he's been an inefficient scorer. This RS he was actually pretty good with a TS% close to 60% shooting nearly 40% from 3. But in the playoffs he's just really had a terrible time making shots of any kind. Missed a ton of layups even.

Yet even with that, its night and day the difference to the Bucks offense with he in place of Bledsoe in the playoffs. He continues to attack, he continues to make plays for others. He forces defenses to still defend him and that's just vital. It's part of why I try and remember to look past just made and missed shots when judging how a player performs offensively. He's not yet allowed any of his woes to cause him to stop doing what his team needs to do from him offensively.

And this defensive clinic as a small guard is just incredibly fun to watch. He and PJ Tucker on the same team playing on-ball defense is just such a treat and must be exhausting for Paul/Booker. Because while the Bucks do have to switch some neither of those guys just concede the switch like 99% of players in the league do.

Major props to Booker for the shots he was getting/hitting in the middle 2 quarters last night in light of that. But Jrue/Tucker's impact defensively is being felt.

Oh yeah don't get me wrong, defensively he's extremely effective and fun to watch, doesn't give a quarter of an inch if he doesn't have to. Between him, PJ, and Middleton, they were hardly conceding any easy shots. Just gotta give credit to Booker for hitting all those hard ones

[Clyde Frazier]

I'm not sure I can remember such a blatant no call in my life when a player had 5 fouls. And I get it, the refs don't want to foul a star out late but that was flat out bizarre. These grind it out games are a lot of fun.

Nice to see middleton getting respect from fans. His inconsistency is an issue but his talent/skillset has been overlooked for far too long. That block by Giannis was just incredible. In the post game he mentioned he knew the lob was coming and felt like he committed too much on booker, so he had to take a chance and go for the block to make up for it.

Pumped for game 5!

[70sFan]

Jrue Holiday has to have one of the least aesthetically pleasing offensive games in the league I think. Just the short strong guy at pickup who posts up every time because he can't shoot

I find him extremely exciting to watch on offense. Big, strong guys who like to post up are always my type of guards.

It would be better if he had made more shots though

[eminence]

A couple of thoughts based on recent comments:

I for one would love no limits on seconds in the paint (offense or defense)

Devin Booker had one of the fastest lane agility times in combine history and it really shows on court

Jrue's spent more time on CP3 than Booker this series, which to me points to MIL seeing CP3 as the bigger threat

[H2tObes]

Jrue Holiday has to have one of the least aesthetically pleasing offensive games in the league I think. Just the short strong guy at pickup who posts up every time because he can't shoot

I find him extremely exciting to watch on offense. Big, strong guys who like to post up are always my type of guards.

It would be better if he had made more shots though

It's funny because he was basically a 50/40/80 guy in the RS, if that Jrue can show up for a game or two the Suns will be in big trouble. His shooting struggles have been nothing short of bizarre, not only is he missing open looks from the perimeter, he is blowing layups that he would normally make in his sleep.

Still much better than Bledsoe, Jrue was still able to come up huge outside the atrocious shooting

[CommonerCoffee]

I have no idea what to make of Jrue Holiday. Obviously his call to fame is not scoring but he's been so putrid on that side on high volume at <42% TS on 19 FGA so far in the finals. He's not exactly a great playmaker either; his passes and creation seem to be mostly basic ones and I sometimes sorta scratch my head at his 8 AST average.

Is his defensive effort actually so transcendent and impactful that despite his offensive woes he's still a positive in this series? I really feel like the Buck are in the series in spite of Jrue and certainly not because of him thus far.

[70sFan]

I can be wrong because I'm a fan of Holiday, but even with his terrible scoring so far I view him as clear positive because of his defense and overall agressiveness.

[Doctor MJ]

A couple of thoughts based on recent comments:

I for one would love no limits on seconds in the paint (offense or defense)

Devin Booker had one of the fastest lane agility times in combine history and it really shows on court

Jrue's spent more time on CP3 than Booker this series, which to me points to MIL seeing CP3 as the bigger threat

I'd like to see this broken down in more detail. Here's what I see:

They put Jrue primarily on Booker in Game 1 because they saw him as the bigger threat.

After Paul torched them, they put Jrue on him as the main guy.

Now they're alternating, but it sure seems like Jrue is actually more effective on Paul than on Booker. Booker can still get his shots off against Jrue, Paul can't.

On the other hand, in terms of the other Bucks, they can do a better job on Booker than Paul.

Why the dichotomy? Because Paul is 6'0", Jrue is 6'3", Booker is 6'5", and every other relevant Bucks is bigger than Booker.

All this to say that while my main thought about Paul & Booker right now is that Booker has is a child out there when it comes to awareness of game context, I do think we need to stop pretending that Paul's been torching the Bucks all series. He had a great Game 1, then they put Jrue on him and he's been nullified.

Also I'll say this:

I hope Giannis wins Finals MVP, and I really hope he wins it if the series goes 7.

The Andre Iguodala remains the stupidest voting I've ever seen, and I think that people really wanted to give it to LeBron and should have given how they saw things. But there was an issue: The Suns won the final 3 games. They figured out the Cavs in the state they were in, and in the end, it wasn't that close.

If the Bucks take this to 7, the series clearly needs to be seen as one where Giannis was the best player by all reasonable people.

The same is mostly true even if the Suns take the next two games to close it out - though granted if Booker goes for 50 (points, not fouls) or something that could change my mind.