2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

[Doctor MJ]

I have no idea what to make of Jrue Holiday. Obviously his call to fame is not scoring but he's been so putrid on that side on high volume at <42% TS on 19 FGA so far in the finals. He's not exactly a great playmaker either; his passes and creation seem to be mostly basic ones and I sometimes sorta scratch my head at his 8 AST average.

Is his defensive effort actually so transcendent and impactful that despite his offensive woes he's still a positive in this series? I really feel like the Buck are in the series in spite of Jrue and certainly not because of him thus far.

The +/- on Jrue always remains pretty dang good, so I'm pretty sold on him as someone who scales to the toughest of competition. You don't want him to be your lead offensive guard obviously, but presuming you've got someone else to handle that, I think his defense makes him worth it.

I've actually been thinking that while I don't consider Jrue to be the most valuable defensive player in the game - or even on his team cuz Giannis - because he plays a less valuable role than other larger guys, I'd say Jrue is probably better at playing his defensive role than anyone who played in the playoffs (which is my way of saying 'cept for Dray).

[70sFan]

I agree with Doc, Jrue is playing absolutely ATG playoffs on defense for a guard. Only very few PGs in NBA history could make comparable impact strictly on defensive end.

[Texas Chuck]

I agree with Doc, Jrue is playing absolutely ATG playoffs on defense for a guard. Only very few PGs in NBA history could make comparable impact strictly on defensive end.

This is one of the reasons I'm so much higher on Jason Kidd than most here. His defense in the playoffs while not as impressive to the naked eye just added so much value. You want to see some silly on/off numbers check out the end of Kidd's playoff career(start with last year in Jersey then Dallas. You also see it in his peak Jersey years too.

[parsnips33]

Kinda unfortunate Booker's game last night is getting overshadowed by the loss/foul shenanigans

Incredible shotmaking, in a game where nobody else on his team could do much, against elite defenders

[Dupp]

Remember like a week ago when we thought Giannis season was over? Now he’s doing this. Truely a freak.

[RCM88x]

Paul needs to be better, he's been lowkey ass in this series. I think injuries are catching up to Phoenix a bit too, reduces their ability to adjust and match up.

[Dr Positivity]

Holiday is doing fine, at his current defensive level which is historic for a PG if he was actually all-star level on offense, he'd be basically 96 Payton level and nobody can expect that.

This series had to go at least 6 so I don't think the Suns should feel too bad yet. They had my preferred defensive strategy this game which was to "double" Giannis more (unique way in his case in the wall) and take their chances that the Bucks supporting cast outside of Middleton isn't lights out enough on open shots when they are playing so hard on D. However their offense wasn't good enough. My swing player would be Payne who has been ice cold since his big Clippers game, I feel having him come in and spark them is what takes the Suns to the next level. I'm taking Bucks in 6 since the superstars tend to come out on top historically and I think Giannis is the outright dominant guy here.

[parsnips33]

What do people think the impact of the Saric injury is? Phoenix badly needs a second big besides Ayton, but I'm not sure Saric would have solved all the problems they have when Deandre is on the bench

[Colbinii]

What do people think the impact of the Saric injury is? Phoenix badly needs a second big besides Ayton, but I'm not sure Saric would have solved all the problems they have when Deandre is on the bench

An excuse.

[MartinToVaught]

I think injuries are catching up to Phoenix a bit too, reduces their ability to adjust and match up.

Maybe, but the Suns don't get to use that explanation when we've been hearing all postseason that injuries are part of the game, just an excuse for losing, all the team's fault for investing in injury-prone players, etc.

[falcolombardi]

I think injuries are catching up to Phoenix a bit too, reduces their ability to adjust and match up.

Maybe, but the Suns don't get to use that explanation when we've been hearing all postseason that injuries are part of the game, just an excuse for losing, all the team's fault for investing in injury-prone players, etc.

and in fairness bucks have been missing a starter all post season long, Miami was their only series with a full roster and they have been forced to give Forbes and specially teague more minutes that they would like

the Miami series was such a beatdown and feels so long ago that i think most people dont realize bucks were a injured team too

[Texas Chuck]

What do people think the impact of the Saric injury is? Phoenix badly needs a second big besides Ayton, but I'm not sure Saric would have solved all the problems they have when Deandre is on the bench

Always worse not to have an option Monty was using, but I'm not sure they are much worse off playing small with Cam playing this well.

[Dupp]

Suns are lucky bucks don’t have a bench.

Also Jrue has been great. His defense is obvious but his playmaking is really underrated. More importantly the flow down effect of Giannis not having to do that role is massive.

[HeartBreakKid]

Jrue Holiday is a much better passer than his apg suggest.

Jrue Holiday has been huge for sure. When ever he guards Booker or CP3 they have dreadful games. That's way more important than whether Holiday himself scores well.

[Dupp]

Jrue Holiday is a much better passer than his apg suggest.

Jrue Holiday has been huge for sure. When ever he guards Booker or CP3 they have dreadful games. That's way more important than whether Holiday himself scores well.

I mean he’s still averaging 8.3 apg in the post season while Khris is averaging 5.1 and Giannis 5.3 also.

Only 2.4 turnovers per too.

[Texas Chuck]

Suns are lucky bucks don’t have a bench.
.

How dare you denigrate the one man bench mob that is Pat Connaughton. He's not what I would call a good player, but he plays hard, makes shots, rebounds well for his size, and isn't likely to get you beat.

And he's upped his minutes and production in every series. So as the games have gotten bigger more and more has been asked of him and he's really come through. Just a great role player run for him in these playoffs.

[Peregrine01]

It's very interesting how defensive rep matters so much to a defender's ability to play defense. Guys like Jrue and PJ just plain don't get called for fouls the way that other players do. I'm all for this kind of defense by the way and wished that the NBA was more consistent in letting everyone play defense like this.

[Doctor MJ]

It's very interesting how defensive rep matters so much to a defender's ability to play defense. Guys like Jrue and PJ just plain don't get called for fouls the way that other players do. I'm all for this kind of defense by the way and wished that the NBA was more consistent in letting everyone play defense like this.

True, and we're seeing it on both sides of the ball.

More precisely than reputation, I'd kinda say that each player essentially negotiates with the referee community what they can get away with, and some veterans are able to extend their prime a long time on the back of the wiggle room referees have gotten used to giving them. While a player's stature and personality factor into how this all plays out, in the end it's about specific actions that a player either can or cannot get away with.

And of course, there exist times where a veteran referee seems to decide that he's not going to let a guy have the same type of wiggle room as the norm, and it can literally put that player's team at a disadvantage whenever said referee is refereeing.

[Goudelock]

Suns are lucky bucks don’t have a bench.
.

How dare you denigrate the one man bench mob that is Pat Connaughton. He's not what I would call a good player, but he plays hard, makes shots, rebounds well for his size, and isn't likely to get you beat.

And he's upped his minutes and production in every series. So as the games have gotten bigger more and more has been asked of him and he's really come through. Just a great role player run for him in these playoffs.

You gotta give some credit to Bobby Portis too. He's not exactly good either, but he plays with energy, grabs rebounds, and is a threat to hit an open shot. Those two are the only Bucks bench players that seem to be playable.

[Dupp]

Suns are lucky bucks don’t have a bench.
.

How dare you denigrate the one man bench mob that is Pat Connaughton. He's not what I would call a good player, but he plays hard, makes shots, rebounds well for his size, and isn't likely to get you beat.

And he's upped his minutes and production in every series. So as the games have gotten bigger more and more has been asked of him and he's really come through. Just a great role player run for him in these playoffs.

You gotta give some credit to Bobby Portis too. He's not exactly good either, but he plays with energy, grabs rebounds, and is a threat to hit an open shot. Those two are the only Bucks bench players that seem to be playable.

That’s because the entire Suns team slapped his Mum in the face