Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!!

[dgr81]

Lol we aren’t drafting Barnes.

has masai ever drafted anyone people expected the raps to draft?

[Federalies]

Our Boy, Adam Spinella has put out his Mock Draft 5.0 (top 14). He still has Suggs going to us at 4 but also still believes he’s the second best player in the draft. Thinks Suggs getting slept on. That said, he’s also high on Barnes (mocks him at 5)!

Watch on YouTube

[T-d0t]

Lol we aren’t drafting Barnes.

has masai ever drafted anyone people expected the raps to draft?

Masai hasnt drafted this high.

[Young_Buc]

Lol we aren’t drafting Barnes.

has masai ever drafted anyone people expected the raps to draft?

Aside from OG? Nope. But he's usually drafted at the end of the 1st round.

[Van_Trump]

One thing I can't understand, if the top 4 are as good as people think, is all these trade proposals that involve the top 4.
Bad teams should keep these players.

The only exception is if you get a Lebron James type impact player, and only Toronto is in the market for someone like that among the top 4.

[S ID]

Lol we aren’t drafting Barnes.

has masai ever drafted anyone people expected the raps to draft?

Jakob

[WuTang_CMB]

Lol we aren’t drafting Barnes.

has masai ever drafted anyone people expected the raps to draft?

Jakob

Jakob was maybe 10% of this board, if that.

We were hoping any of the picks fell to 9 but if they didnt ... It was Sabonis or Skal at that pick .

[S ID]

has masai ever drafted anyone people expected the raps to draft?

Jakob

Jakob was maybe 10% of this board, if that.

We were hoping any of the picks fell to 9 but if they didnt ... It was Sabonis or Skal at that pick .

I’m sure people had their favourites but Jakob was the 9th best prospect that year and was mocked to us like 80% of the time. I remember people wanting Chriss to drop but I’m pretty sure everyone expected Jakob if he didn’t.

[Tofubeque]

Name me things Barnes does better than lets say Suggs cause hes the most likely to fall to us at 4...

Does he pass better than Suggs? Nope...
Does he Handle the ball better than Suggs? Not really
Does He Attack the basket better than Suggs? Nope Suggs is a rim attacker with various ways to finish
Is he a Better defender? Maybe this is the thing he beats Suggs in but Suggs is no slouch on Defense either
Does He Win as good as Suggs? Proof Shows Suggs is more of a Winner
Does He Have a better Shot than Suggs? Nope Not Close at all Suggs Form is worlds away better
Does He Have a Better Halfcourt game than Suggs? Nope Suggs shows flashes he can break a player down off the dribble
Does He Have a Better transition Game than Suggs? Nope Suggs is the best transition passer in this draft and thrives in Transition play
Does He Have a better Body than Suggs at his position? Prolly Not Barnes is 6"8 And will either be playing a PF/SF And at 6"8 Hes the normal Size for that Position....Suggs Is 6"4 PG which is bigger than alot of the PGs in the NBA Right now
Does He have better stats than Suggs? Nope Suggs Stats are much more impressive
Does He have a better game than Suggs based on eye test? Nope based on my eye test Suggs looks more like the polished player

Who has more bust potential Suggs or Barnes? I would Say Barnes...

So tbh all in all its really not Close with the two and thats why there is a drop off in talent after 4 in this draft

So you handwave away an entire half of the court, and then try to say it's better to be 6'4" with a 6'5" wingspan than 6'8" with a 7'2" wingspan.

Barnes played PG the entire college season and put up a better AST/TO ratio than Cade and Suggs, and assisted more per minute, so I don't know where you're getting it that he can only play PF/SF. He's too tall I guess? The most notable thing about him is positional versatility, and obviously being switchable and versatile is critical in an all-switching league.

I don't even think Barnes should go ahead of Suggs necessarily, but they're not that far apart. Any further skill development (like with shooting) will take Barnes further than it can take Suggs, because they're separated by 9 inches of wingspan and the longer guy also has a 36 inch vertical. With a good jump shot he'd be a monster.

[deeps6x]

barnes has less scoring fluidity than og, he looks like a 5 year old and he tries to create off the dribble. no thanks man

I agree. Barnes is also not a very good rebounder, to go with his inconsistent jump shot. All year, he was projected to go 7-9. Now he is being hyped up, because the teams behind Toronto are hoping they pass on Suggs. Suggs should be a no-brainer pick at 4. I watched a couple of games involving Scottie Barnes. Good athlete and passer, but no way should be in the conversation for us at 4. Maybe if we were drafting 7/8. Same with Kuminga. I am good with one of Mobley/Suggs at 4.

100%.

[WuTang_CMB]

https://theathletic.com/2707986/2021/07/15/nba-prospect-profiles-analyzing-uscs-evan-mobley-with-college-hoops-expert-seth-davis/

Seth Davis: Easy: He plays after dark!

For someone who won the league’s player of the year, freshman of the year and defensive player of the year (last guy to do that in a power conference was Anthony Davis), Mobley really didn’t generate much buzz during the college basketball season. Even people who knew who he was and saw his numbers didn’t watch him play much. The Pac-12 does not have very high visibility in the TV marketplace, and of course, the games tip off late back east. USC may have reached the Elite Eight, but it was a borderline top-25 team all season, and it is not considered one of the “marquee” programs in the league (UCLA, Arizona and Oregon usually snatch those honors).

All that said, people who follow basketball, and certainly the front office folks in Houston who have been tracking Mobley since he was in high school, know how talented this young man is. Cade Cunningham won’t be available at No. 2, so Houston’s decision between Mobley and Green comes down to positional needs more than anything. If there is a concern about Mobley, it’s whether he can — or even needs to — develop his offensive game to fit today’s NBA.

It’s nice to protect the rim and score on the block, but if you can’t make shots behind that 3-point line, it’s hard to be a really high-level NBA player. Mobley has a nice stroke and has shown he can make midrange shots, so I’d say he has the potential to be a consistent 3-point shooter if he works at it. He doesn’t have to make a ton of them; he just has to make enough to keep defenses honest in the pick-and-pop. For this reason, I would lean towards taking Green with this pick, but if Mobley ends up going to Houston, you won’t hear any blowback from me.

Iko: Public perception is pretty much neck and neck at this point.

It’s not the easiest task in the world to be glued to a beat and still keep up with the college world at the same time. Mobley certainly went under the radar this season, but how would you evaluate his overall freshman season on a month-to-month basis? What did you like? What didn’t you like?

Davis: Pick any month you want! Mobley started the season going for 21 points, nine rebounds and three assists in a win over California Baptist. Remember now, this was a kid who came in with a lot of hype. It’s not like he flew in under the radar. He had good players around him, but he’s probably the only pro on that roster. (His older brother, Isaiah, decided to withdraw from the draft and return for his junior season.) His preparation, discipline and demeanor were stellar all the way through. He’s a well-spoken, somewhat soft-spoken kid, and he’s been groomed for this, so he’s definitely mature beyond his years.

I don’t know that I would call it a concern, but that niceness is something I kind of wonder about. There are plenty of nice guys who are mean competitors between the lines. Mobley plays basketball in such a measured, almost cheerful way that you have to wonder how much dog he really has in him? Any college freshman needs to add strength, but he is slightly built, so I wonder how much strength he can put on. Then again, in today’s NBA game, the centers are much more agile and finesse-like. That’s why it’s so important for him to develop a respectable 3-point shot. He made 12-for-40 (30 percent) from 3 on the season, which might seem bad, but when you’re talking about a 7-foot 19-year-old center, that shows me he has it in his game somewhere. He just needs to put in those 10,000 hours.

Iko: I’m glad you brought up his shooting at the end. At least as it pertains to Houston, drafting Mobley probably puts him in the starting lineup alongside Christian Wood, right? I say this only because the Rockets experimented with this two-big lineup, slotting Kelly Olynyk next to Wood during the second half of the season. It generated mixed results honestly, but the main takeaway is Houston’s coaching staff was confident enough to give it a try — or injuries forced their hand, whichever floats your boat. The spacing wasn’t a problem for those two, and Mobley being able to hit threes is extremely important for his future (assuming he’ll improve).

But how much experience did Mobley have playing with another true big at USC? I know the college game is scaled down from the pros, but would this be the first time he’s played big minutes next to another skilled center? The closest thing I could see from last season was the times he shared the floor with his brother, Isaiah, who shot much better from behind the arc (43.6 percent) but who’s classified as a forward and operated in the post at times. How much confidence do you have in his fit at the next level in a two-big lineup?

Davis: The Mobley brothers playing together is the closest thing to the scenario you’re describing. Yes, Isaiah shot nearly 44 percent as you said, but he only averaged 1.2 attempts per game from behind the arc. Evan averaged the same number. Yet, both those guys showed some offensive versatility as well, so I don’t think Evan would have trouble playing with another big. He may not be a 3-pointer shooter (yet), but he’s still very skilled for a guy his size; plus, he also averaged 2.4 assists per game. He can play in space, and you can run your offense through him.

Let’s face it, in the NBA, you’re better off only playing one big if you can. I see Evan more like a traditional power forward at the next level than a true center. He’s much more comfortable facing the basket, where he can use his quickness, ballhandling and passing ability. I think he’ll be great passing out of double teams. And if you have to respect him in the pick-and-roll, he’ll be devastating as a finisher on lobs and tip dunks. He’ll be one of the best finishers in the NBA on Day 1. So if he’s healthy and progressing as I’d expect, I don’t think the Rockets coaches will be so inclined to play another big man in there.

Iko: I think you laid out exactly why he’s such a gifted offensive player. Any concerns on the other end of the floor?

If he’s more of a power forward than a center, does that affect who he’s asked to guard in the NBA? Mobley has a thin frame, and we’ve seen what can happen when those types of players go up against bigger, stronger matchups. In 2021, there aren’t as many “bruisers” as in decades past, but the Jokics, Embiids, Aytons of the world still exist, as well as the bevy of physical forwards in both conferences.

Davis: Well, it doesn’t look to me like anyone is doing a good job defending those three guys. At the very least, Mobley won’t do any worse! To your point, the down-low bangers and bruisers are definitely fewer and farther between. To the extent that someone in that mold could cause Mobley a problem, he could presumably cause that player even bigger problems at the other end of the floor by forcing him to play in space — especially if he makes the improvements on his shooting range that I anticipate. After all, being strong while also being light on your feet defensively usually don’t go together.

As I said, I don’t expect Mobley will ever be one of those big, chiseled centers, but I also believe that lower-body strength is much more important in basketball, especially in a big man. I could see Mobley being in the Rudy Gobert mode defensively. He won’t be quite the rim protector that Gobert is, but I do think he could be more versatile defending the perimeter. Mobley will be an impactful NBA defender from Day 1. It’s the other stuff that will take some time to develop.

(Photo: Brian Rothmuller / Icon Sportswire via Getty Images)

[OAKLEY_2]

From a talent perspective, Barnes is not on the same level as Cade/Mobley/Green/Suggs. He doesn't pass the eye test, doesn't have the stats to show it, can't rebound or score. From a fit perspective, we're probably the worst fit from the teams drafting top 6. So not really sure what the appeal is other than his measurements and 7'3 wingspan.

Bingo. Which means I think Masai can actually grab Kuminga if Weltman wants best at 4 and prefers Suggs which I would hands down. I mean who wouldn't want Suggs? Sengun promoters? The Barnes physical measurement evaluators? Hollinger on whatever he's smoking? I think we can agree having an alliance with Orlando at 4-5 can decide which of those two really wants Kuminga and if by making it known to each other then how they might extract favour like can we please make a fair deal for Carter Jr. or maybe Mo Bamba. Here is Suggs or Kuminga deivered at cheaper 5 spot by We The North. You get Boucher we take Carter jr. That to me is is the only way anyone else cracks the top 4.

[RapsFanInOhio]

Lol we aren’t drafting Barnes.

Fair enough. No point in even discussing the prospects in that case. See you on the 29th.

Just my opinion. I’ve discussed him. I actually like his demeanor a lot. I think he struggles offensively and that the hype he’s been getting has been drummed up by his representation. I don’t think we’re going to rock the boat too much - it’s whoever falls from Cade, Green, Mobley, and Suggs.

[dgr81]

Lol we aren’t drafting Barnes.

has masai ever drafted anyone people expected the raps to draft?

Jakob

a lot of mocks had sabonis to the raps if i remember correctly

[DelAbbot]

Our Boy, Adam Spinella has put out his Mock Draft 5.0 (top 14). He still has Suggs going to us at 4 but also still believes he’s the second best player in the draft. Thinks Suggs getting slept on. That said, he’s also high on Barnes (mocks him at 5)!

Watch on YouTube

He keeps comparing Barnes to Giannis... Masai getting flashbacks of Bruno

[dgr81]

wonder if the raps could trade 4 to orlando along with boucher for 5 and 8

[Clutch0z24]

Name me things Barnes does better than lets say Suggs cause hes the most likely to fall to us at 4...

Does he pass better than Suggs? Nope...
Does he Handle the ball better than Suggs? Not really
Does He Attack the basket better than Suggs? Nope Suggs is a rim attacker with various ways to finish
Is he a Better defender? Maybe this is the thing he beats Suggs in but Suggs is no slouch on Defense either
Does He Win as good as Suggs? Proof Shows Suggs is more of a Winner
Does He Have a better Shot than Suggs? Nope Not Close at all Suggs Form is worlds away better
Does He Have a Better Halfcourt game than Suggs? Nope Suggs shows flashes he can break a player down off the dribble
Does He Have a Better transition Game than Suggs? Nope Suggs is the best transition passer in this draft and thrives in Transition play
Does He Have a better Body than Suggs at his position? Prolly Not Barnes is 6"8 And will either be playing a PF/SF And at 6"8 Hes the normal Size for that Position....Suggs Is 6"4 PG which is bigger than alot of the PGs in the NBA Right now
Does He have better stats than Suggs? Nope Suggs Stats are much more impressive
Does He have a better game than Suggs based on eye test? Nope based on my eye test Suggs looks more like the polished player

Who has more bust potential Suggs or Barnes? I would Say Barnes...

So tbh all in all its really not Close with the two and thats why there is a drop off in talent after 4 in this draft

So you handwave away an entire half of the court, and then try to say it's better to be 6'4" with a 6'5" wingspan than 6'8" with a 7'2" wingspan.

Barnes played PG the entire college season and put up a better AST/TO ratio than Cade and Suggs, and assisted more per minute, so I don't know where you're getting it that he can only play PF/SF. He's too tall I guess? The most notable thing about him is positional versatility, and obviously being switchable and versatile is critical in an all-switching league.

I don't even think Barnes should go ahead of Suggs necessarily, but they're not that far apart. Any further skill development (like with shooting) will take Barnes further than it can take Suggs, because they're separated by 9 inches of wingspan and the longer guy also has a 36 inch vertical. With a good jump shot he'd be a monster.

So again your basing his "Better Ceiling" than Suggs based on Physical Attributes and not real Skill? ...Suggs also has amazing vision and controls the game in a half court setting being the main ball handler...He Also has the potential to become an elite defender since he competes so high.....

Im Saying in the NBA They have a player like Barnes already who does it at a more elite level and thats Ben Simmons ....And we all see the outcome how that turned out and the 76ers are now trading him due to his limitations as a basketball player and thats a former number 1 overall pick who is way more elite than barnes as a passer/defender ....So in what world does Barnes have a higher ceiling than Suggs does?

Based on what exactly? being a tall PG? ...Being a Good defender?....Suggs is both a good passer and a good defender but the difference is his offensive game is already polished compared to Barnes where Barnes needs so much work still that hes worlds away from getting there....

Suggs already has a good Jumper and Form already is an offensive threat and can develop the things hes not so good at where i don't see Barnes ever becoming a good offensive player in the NBA

[WuTang_CMB]

wonder if the raps could trade 4 to orlando along with boucher for 5 and 8

ORL wont do it

[DelAbbot]

wonder if the raps could trade 4 to orlando along with boucher for 5 and 8

Orlando wants a wing (WCJ + MB, Fultz) and has two great choices at 5 in Barnes and Kuminga, so they won't value moving from 5 to 4 much.

[Yallbecrazy]

[

Watch on YouTube

If you aren't on the Sengun hype train at #4 yet then I don't think there's hope for you.