NBA Finals: Milwaukee Bucks vs. Phoenix Suns, Part 3 | Bucks lead 3-2

[trickshot]

I get it, but make up calls come in many forms. And technically he didn't completely wrap him up, which would have forced them to call it. Clear foul, but not the first time they let something like that go.

He literally wrapped his right arm around him and spun him. "Technically didnt completely wrap him up?" No dude, that's a wrap up.

The official flat out came out and said that in real time he thought he just got a clean swipe at the ball (or something like that) but on replay that he didn't notice he had his entire other arm around the waste and that he missed the call.

I thought that was a massive benefit of the doubt to give him there because of how obvious a wrap up it looked in real time, even if he got the ball it also looked like contact was made on the shooter's arm before that, Booker also didn't even make an attempt at verticality so I wondered where the benefit was to give in the first place. Refs had also been whistle happy this game then randomly decided they were going to allow highly physical contact this one possession.

[soxperry]

Bucks last failures have ruffed them up for this stage. Suns will be ready next year onward(ie. no brainfartonitos). For this reason i think Bucks would be more disappointed and feels like a tiny upset in basketball sense when they lose.

Very true. Its something we saw against Toronto in 19. They had REALLY been through it. What won them that series was not just van vleet shooting 80% from 3, not just Kawhi, but it was also toronto grabbing offensive rebounds after key stops by the bucks. Just straight up taking the ball out of our hands at times. They just wanted it way more and that happened time and time again.

[BigO]

If I'm Budenholzer, I speak to every ref at the beginning of the the remaining games and warn them about Crowder and Booker. Crowder is just plain making stuff up and Booker complains about everything. He actually complained that his foul on Jrue was a tie up. Of course, Bud won't do that.

The closest the Bucks have is Tucker and then Lopez, but not in the same league as Crowder/Booker.

[tamaraw08]

I expect Middleton to be his usual Jeckyll and Hyde self, with another bad shooting game but Jrue will have a better night to keep it close. Suns will feed Ayton more and he will deliver. Bridges and Payne will regain touch while Giannis will miss a bunch of FTS that will lead to their downfall in game 5.

[garrick]

When you see Crowder going full on flop mode for multiple posessions in a short span and then Booker throwing his head back on that Holiday shot, it means two things to me:

1. Ive lost all respect for the Suns. CP was already known for that. Now the others are doing it. Its pathetic.

2. It reeks of desperation.

I hope we win this series and its another 50 years before Phoenix gets a title shot again. Absolutely pathetic.

Players flop in all leagues around the world though it's not good. There is no other league like NBA though rewarding a player who can't shoot for crashing into people like Giannis.

Wishing same to you.

Two totally different things. Giannis driving to the basket and putting the defender in a situation that is very tough to handle without fouling also puts the ref in a tough situation and the tie usually goes to the superstar. But its a basketball move by giannis.

Booker got beat by jrue. He got backed down and he got beat. So instead of taking it like a man, he flailed his head back when he saw the elbow 3 inches from his face. Total bitch move.

Crowder took it to another level altogether. Pat grazed him and he acts like he was hit by a linebacker. Countless times he grabbed at his eyes like he got poked but didnt. Those are things you do when you know your best basketball isnt good enough.

My guy Giannis thought he was beat on that lob but he went for the block anyway. There have been a ton of giannis posters over the years because he just does not care about that. He always tries to make the best basketball play regardless of anything else.

The Suns are without honor. They will not be rewarded by the gods.

As much as I hate flopping LBJ has been flopping for years and acts like he's been mortally wounded on slight fouls and he's won a few championships, Manu was also a flopper as well so I think that those kind of players are integral to winning.

[old skool]

If I'm Budenholzer, I speak to every ref at the beginning of the the remaining games and warn them about Crowder and Booker. Crowder is just plain making stuff up and Booker complains about everything. He actually complained that his foul on Jrue was a tie up. Of course, Bud won't do that.

The NBA is using veteran referees in the Finals. These refs are pros. They all saw the previous games. They likely review video on every game and discuss the games from an officiating perspective with their fellow refs. A coach warning the refs "about Crowder and Booker" would come across as childish. Really? The refs know more about what goes on during a game than fans watching on TV. They see it all from a neutral perspective. They and their supervisors see things that are obvious to all fans and catch nuances that escape most of us. Historically, some coaches (Jackson, Popovich) have attempted to create a public narrative to possibly influence the officials. Coaches can make points with officials, but I don't think it is effective to treat refs like they are incompetent goofs wallowing in ignorance on issues integral to their profession.

Refs know they get some calls wrong. Maybe 10% of all calls are missed. Refs get it. But when a coach or reporter or fan only brings up certain missed calls, without acknowledging how bad calls go both ways, that has to seem vapid.

The refs know that Crowder was flopping. The refs know that Booker mauled Holiday and should have picked up his 6th foul. But the refs also know that Giannis inbounded the ball while straddling the end line. The refs know that Middleton got two FTs when they prematurely blew a whistle when Middleton was trapped in the backcourt.

[garrick]

Going to bet the league takes a hard look at moving screens this off season.

Is this legal, or just subtle enough to fly? Not a rules expert here.

https://gfycat.com/slowbogusargentineruddyduck

Ayton usually gets whistled at least once a game. Not sure if any were called last night. Add it to the ‘wtf refs?’ list. Wacky game, whistle wise. Hate to see it become the narrative of what otherwise was a good game to watch, emotions aside.

Thats not a moving screen its a foul on Bridges

https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0042000404

No it was reviewed as a pushoff by Middleton on Bridges prior to the screen according to the 2 minute report so either way it was a missed call by the refs.

Q4 01:34.5 Foul: Offensive Khris Middleton Mikal Bridges INC http://official.nba.com/last-two-minute-report/?gameNo=0042000404&eventNum=2395
Comment: Middleton (MIL) extends his arms into Bridges (PHX) and dislodges him from his position off-ball.

Look at the last 2 minute report and Bucks got away with 1 push off and 1 illegal inbounds while the Suns didn't get a call on a Chris Paul loose ball foul.

[Lunartic]

If I'm Budenholzer, I speak to every ref at the beginning of the the remaining games and warn them about Crowder and Booker. Crowder is just plain making stuff up and Booker complains about everything. He actually complained that his foul on Jrue was a tie up. Of course, Bud won't do that.

The NBA is using veteran referees in the Finals. These refs are pros. They all saw the previous games. They likely review video on every game and discuss the games from an officiating perspective with their fellow refs. A coach warning the refs "about Crowder and Booker" would come across as childish. Really? The refs know more about what goes on during a game than fans watching on TV. They see it all from a neutral perspective. They and their supervisors see things that are obvious to all fans and catch nuances that escape most of us. Historically, some coaches (Jackson, Popovich) have attempted to create a public narrative to possibly influence the officials. Coaches can make points with officials, but I don't think it is effective to treat refs like they are incompetent goofs wallowing in ignorance on issues integral to their profession.

Refs know they get some calls wrong. Maybe 10% of all calls are missed. Refs get it. But when a coach or reporter or fan only brings up certain missed calls, without acknowledging how bad calls go both ways, that has to seem vapid.

The refs know that Crowder was flopping. The refs know that Booker mauled Holiday and should have picked up his 6th foul. But the refs also know that Giannis inbounded the ball while straddling the end line. The refs know that Middleton got two FTs when they prematurely blew a whistle when Middleton was trapped in the backcourt.

Did these "professionals" all just somehow manage to miss Booker enveloping Jrue and somehow didn't realize that was considered a foul? Every single fan watching at home, the commentators, the blind homeless guy in NJ and everyone else saw the play in realtime and knew it was a foul. It's not a "oh we didn't notice" call like Giannis stepping out of bounds, or even a missed goaltend.

It's a fast break, all refs are watching the same play from multiple angles and not one of them could determine that it was a foul?

Real pros those refs are.

[old skool]

I suspect that Paul is playing through an injury. Before the start of game 4 he seemed to me to be limping slightly, favoring his left leg or foot. Walking gingerly a bit. Not enough to be unplayable, but maybe enough to throw him off a bit.

Paul spent most of the game 4 halftime in the locker room, coming out just a couple of minutes before the 3rd quarter start. Booker was also a no show for most of halftime warmups, coming back onto the floor just a bit before Paul. Maybe their absence was nothing. Maybe they were looking at video or otherwise occupied. But for all of the conjecture over Paul's recent struggles, an injury could be at play.

[BigDan245]

Read on Twitter

[Mrakar]

I was talking first 2 games that Bucks have a room from improvement with adjustments(especially fighting trough screens which they didn't do in first game at all, and not nearly enough in 2nd game). Also they started to press Paul full court, and do quick doubles when needed. Bucks are not good offensive team so they need to do everything else very well in order to win, and they did it in last 2 games. Now we need to see response from Suns.
1st thing is relieving Chris Paul of Holidays pressure. They need to do screens early in possesion before half court, maybe even double screens. Also i would try to get him into foul trouble. He was playing much more agressive in Milwaukee since refs allowed it and i don't think they will allow it on the road (same for Tucker on Booker).
2nd is to get Ayton some early Buckets to get his confidence and energy up. When he feels it it looks like he can cover half of the court by himself... it didn't look like that last 2 games.
And 3rd they need to run faster. They won a lot of games by being faster than their opponent and last game they had 0 points in transition. That can't happen in next game.

4th thing will come by home court advantage as it did for the Bucks. Role players will shoot better, rebound better and defend with energy because of home crowd. Connaughton, Lopez, Tucker, Portis and Middleton played much better in front of home crowd, because they are streaky. Holiday didn't have good offensive games but he was monster on defense.
Suns need big games from some of their role players (Bridges, Johnson, Payne, Craig, Crowder) and they need solid defense and energy from all of them. And of course they need bounce back CP3 game.


As i said at the start, i am giving an advantage to the Bucks since i think they are so good on defense that they can win games where they are awfull on offense, and i don't think Suns can do it. But still it can go either side, its probably going to be 7 games (i hope).
Its so close between these teams that one possession can decide who se champion.

[lakerz12]

He literally wrapped his right arm around him and spun him. "Technically didnt completely wrap him up?" No dude, that's a wrap up.

The official flat out came out and said that in real time he thought he just got a clean swipe at the ball (or something like that) but on replay that he didn't notice he had his entire other arm around the waste and that he missed the call.

I thought that was a massive benefit of the doubt to give him there because of how obvious a wrap up it looked in real time, even if he got the ball it also looked like contact was made on the shooter's arm before that, Booker also didn't even make an attempt at verticality so I wondered where the benefit was to give in the first place. Refs had also been whistle happy this game then randomly decided they were going to allow highly physical contact this one possession.

Yeah it was an obvious foul from every angle. And there was indeed contact on Holiday's left arm the entire time. Lol at "clean swipe". The ref is likely just lying, because of course they aren't going to publicly admit they didn't want to call Booker's 6th foul.

[bwgood77]

When you see Crowder going full on flop mode for multiple posessions in a short span and then Booker throwing his head back on that Holiday shot, it means two things to me:

1. Ive lost all respect for the Suns. CP was already known for that. Now the others are doing it. Its pathetic.

2. It reeks of desperation.

I hope we win this series and its another 50 years before Phoenix gets a title shot again. Absolutely pathetic.

Players flop in all leagues around the world though it's not good. There is no other league like NBA though rewarding a player who can't shoot for crashing into people like Giannis.

Wishing same to you.

Two totally different things. Giannis driving to the basket and putting the defender in a situation that is very tough to handle without fouling also puts the ref in a tough situation and the tie usually goes to the superstar. But its a basketball move by giannis.

Booker got beat by jrue. He got backed down and he got beat. So instead of taking it like a man, he flailed his head back when he saw the elbow 3 inches from his face. Total bitch move.

Crowder took it to another level altogether. Pat grazed him and he acts like he was hit by a linebacker. Countless times he grabbed at his eyes like he got poked but didnt. Those are things you do when you know your best basketball isnt good enough.

My guy Giannis thought he was beat on that lob but he went for the block anyway. There have been a ton of giannis posters over the years because he just does not care about that. He always tries to make the best basketball play regardless of anything else.

The Suns are without honor. They will not be rewarded by the gods.

I do hate that a few Suns flop a lot on offense...or jump into guys in the air and throw up a bad shot hoping for a foul (though I think doing this is dumb because they often don't get the call, especially Booker) and then it's a wasted bad shot, when, if a guy is in the air, you can move around him and put up a good shot....why not just do that?

And then they also fall down..like Book and sometimes Crowder will fall down if someone grazes them or their leg like that would really cause you to fall down...and then sometimes take the time to argue with official on non call so it ends up hurting you on both ends.

Now I don't totally blame these guys because the NBA has allowed it and called fouls on this with Harden and many others and to many players..if that's the rule, why not take advantage?

But you would never see MJ or Jordan or any older big name do this...they would likely consider it ridiculous. It's not basketball.

Imagine doing that in a pick up game and then arguing the guy fouled...you simply wouldn't do it because you'd feel stupid...I don't even think these NBA players would do it in a pick up game and expect respect from their opponent if they did it.

Paul hasn't helped with this since he does it too. And I have the utmost respect for Paul as a leader and just from what I've seen this season, but the two vets..him and Crowder set a bad example in this respect.

I'm glad Ayton, Bridges and Cam don't do it..which is impressive considering they are basically coached daily by Paul...just seems more respectable.

And to make matters worse in the finals, typically the Suns opponents will flop as well, so no big deal, but the Bucks don't really do it, so I have respect for that.

And I think the officials not only probably don't have a lot of respect for it, which is why they sometimes don't call it (as a matter of fact I think they called Booker for initiating contact on his shot with his leg which of course I didn't like as a Suns fan do to inconsistency but did like as an NBA fan).

I just hope the league and refs crack down on all of this and don't call it or call it on the offensive player (or defensive if he obviously flops).

I also don't think a defender should be able to slide in front of a guy in the air jumping for a shot in an attempt to draw a charge. This doesn't seem right and really could cause an injury because since the offensive player will obviously land into him, he cold also land on his foot which, if you think about it, doing this is not much different than a defender sliding his foot into a player's landing space.

[gorz]

Bucks last failures have ruffed them up for this stage. Suns will be ready next year onward(ie. no brainfartonitos). For this reason i think Bucks would be more disappointed and feels like a tiny upset in basketball sense when they lose.

I don't like this line of reasoning. Why do the Suns have to "fail" first before they can win it all? First of all, Milwaukee in no way shape or form even deserved to win their series against the Raptors and Heat in the 2019 ECF and 2020 ECSF. The better teams won those respective series. What "failures" did the 2020 Lakers, 2008 Celtics, 2015 Warriors go through first before they won it all? Why can't a team just win if they play like the best team in the league that particular year? Sure Milwaukee has had some disappointments the past couple of years in the playoffs, but guess what? So did the 2018 Rockets and mid 00s Suns and those teams never got to redeem themselves. The team that wins the Finals is the team that deserves to win from playing better than the opponent. No team is entitled anything. They have to earn it regardless of what they gone through in the past.

[BigO]

If I'm Budenholzer, I speak to every ref at the beginning of the the remaining games and warn them about Crowder and Booker. Crowder is just plain making stuff up and Booker complains about everything. He actually complained that his foul on Jrue was a tie up. Of course, Bud won't do that.

The NBA is using veteran referees in the Finals. These refs are pros. They all saw the previous games. They likely review video on every game and discuss the games from an officiating perspective with their fellow refs. A coach warning the refs "about Crowder and Booker" would come across as childish. Really? The refs know more about what goes on during a game than fans watching on TV. They see it all from a neutral perspective. They and their supervisors see things that are obvious to all fans and catch nuances that escape most of us. Historically, some coaches (Jackson, Popovich) have attempted to create a public narrative to possibly influence the officials. Coaches can make points with officials, but I don't think it is effective to treat refs like they are incompetent goofs wallowing in ignorance on issues integral to their profession.

Refs know they get some calls wrong. Maybe 10% of all calls are missed. Refs get it. But when a coach or reporter or fan only brings up certain missed calls, without acknowledging how bad calls go both ways, that has to seem vapid.

The refs know that Crowder was flopping. The refs know that Booker mauled Holiday and should have picked up his 6th foul. But the refs also know that Giannis inbounded the ball while straddling the end line. The refs know that Middleton got two FTs when they prematurely blew a whistle when Middleton was trapped in the backcourt.

This is about as naive as it gets.

But if you were right, then the refs in game four wouldn't had let Crowder get away with what he did and same with Booker. So no, any good coach would remind them about Crowder and Booker.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Read on Twitter

Hate him as a TV personality but some good messaging there.

[th87]

Going to bet the league takes a hard look at moving screens this off season.

Is this legal, or just subtle enough to fly? Not a rules expert here.

https://gfycat.com/slowbogusargentineruddyduck

Ayton usually gets whistled at least once a game. Not sure if any were called last night. Add it to the ‘wtf refs?’ list. Wacky game, whistle wise. Hate to see it become the narrative of what otherwise was a good game to watch, emotions aside.

Thats not a moving screen its a foul on Bridges

https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0042000404

No it was reviewed as a pushoff by Middleton on Bridges prior to the screen according to the 2 minute report so either way it was a missed call by the refs.

Q4 01:34.5 Foul: Offensive Khris Middleton Mikal Bridges INC http://official.nba.com/last-two-minute-report/?gameNo=0042000404&eventNum=2395
Comment: Middleton (MIL) extends his arms into Bridges (PHX) and dislodges him from his position off-ball.

Look at the last 2 minute report and Bucks got away with 1 push off and 1 illegal inbounds while the Suns didn't get a call on a Chris Paul loose ball foul.

Interesting. Is there a 4 minute report? I wonder if that would contain an infinitely more egregious and impactful error going against the Bucks?

"Don't come after me for murder; get that guy for jaywalking!"

[th87]

If I'm Budenholzer, I speak to every ref at the beginning of the the remaining games and warn them about Crowder and Booker. Crowder is just plain making stuff up and Booker complains about everything. He actually complained that his foul on Jrue was a tie up. Of course, Bud won't do that.

The NBA is using veteran referees in the Finals. These refs are pros. They all saw the previous games. They likely review video on every game and discuss the games from an officiating perspective with their fellow refs. A coach warning the refs "about Crowder and Booker" would come across as childish. Really? The refs know more about what goes on during a game than fans watching on TV. They see it all from a neutral perspective. They and their supervisors see things that are obvious to all fans and catch nuances that escape most of us. Historically, some coaches (Jackson, Popovich) have attempted to create a public narrative to possibly influence the officials. Coaches can make points with officials, but I don't think it is effective to treat refs like they are incompetent goofs wallowing in ignorance on issues integral to their profession.

Refs know they get some calls wrong. Maybe 10% of all calls are missed. Refs get it. But when a coach or reporter or fan only brings up certain missed calls, without acknowledging how bad calls go both ways, that has to seem vapid.

The refs know that Crowder was flopping. The refs know that Booker mauled Holiday and should have picked up his 6th foul. But the refs also know that Giannis inbounded the ball while straddling the end line. The refs know that Middleton got two FTs when they prematurely blew a whistle when Middleton was trapped in the backcourt.

This is about as naive as it gets.

But if you were right, then the refs in game four wouldn't had let Crowder get away with what he did and same with Booker. So no, any good coach would remind them about Crowder and Booker.

Pretending the refs are on the up (despite mile-high corruption smoke like Donaghy and the 2002 WCF) is the only way to preserve the facade that this is a fair and unskewed league.

The Suns have been victimized in the past (hated the suspensions in the Spurs series). And so have the Bucks. Anyone's guess who will get the benefit going forward, but repeatedly rewarding Crowder's egregious flopping and straight up Rams-Saintsing the Booker call scares me.

[Heat4lyf]

Is the game today or tomorrow?

[rilamann]

One of Crowder's defining traits as a player is flopping. Everyone knows this. His flops are blatant, obvious flops. Yet, professional officials continue to fall for, and reward Crowder for his obvious, blatant flops.

NBA officials can't possibly be this stupid, can they?