2021 Playoff and Offseason Speculation - the playoffs. PLAYOFFS????

[Saberestar]

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He gone.

Not really up to him.

I think it's BS when a player signs a huge max deal...meaning a team commits to him...and then before it even starts he wants out.

I understand players points about "they can trade us at any time..why should we be loyal" but the point here is they committed a lot of money to him for a long time.

If I were them, I would play the Presti game and just wait until a huge offer came in for him. I wouldn't trade him just for Simmons right now...I'd ask for way more but I don't like building around a PG who can't shoot...not in today's league.

I'd monitor other interested teams like NY and see how those young players do.

What would Miami offer? Bam and Herro? Is it worth moving on from Nurkic to have Bam as main guy? Not that it's not an upgrade and a younger guy but it's just an upgrade to one position and an overrated player in Herro.

A loaded team like the Hawks makes sense for assets, and he could view them as a contender, but he doesn't really make sense with Trae.

I just don't see a contender...unless someone like Kawhi or George leave.

He makes near $40 million so hard to come up with matching money too.

I don't think the Pelicans are a contender with just him and Zion...their supporting cast isn't good enough. I don't think that's much better (if at all) than Booker and Ayton, but we also need Paul, Bridges, Cam, Payne, Crowder to be a contender. Are the Pelicans any better than the Blazers? Blazers have more depth, CJ is underrated. Covington has always been underrated and Nurkic too. A couple years ago he was 16/10/3 with good D, and last year before he went down, 18/10/4 and this year added a 3...so he can score, rebound, pass, hit 3s, block shots and play decent D. Bam can't shoot 3s..is a better passer and probably a better defender but not a huge upgrade. Nurkic is only 26 too. He is a FA but I think he will re-sign if they want him.

If Lillard says that he wants out he will be out. Period.

They will trade him for the best package available.

Simmons + Maxey + some first round picks makes a lot of sense IMO. Lillard in the East would be great for the Suns.

Edit: From what I am reading now it looks like Lillard wants the Blazers to improve severely their roster and in that case he will stay on the team.

We will see...it is gonna be interesting.

[WeekapaugGroove]

It's hard to be as high on Toppin after the year, but with Randle playing more minutes than most, them suddenly being a solid middle of the pack playoff team, and Barrett being a guy that does most of his stuff, I don't see what can be expected from Toppin in limited minutes. He is mainly a finisher and 3 pt shooter so he has to rely on his creator, and their best creator is Randle.

I always thought Toppin could likely thrive in the right situation with a bunch of floor spreaders (even a C) allowing him to thrive finishing like Amare did. But the Knicks are about the worst floor spreading team, especially with Randle and other starters sitting..and other guys like Burks and Rose were out like half the season or more. On top of that, playing with Noel or Robinson or Taj isn't doing you any favors opening up the lane.

I had thought if GS dropped to like 5 or something he might make sense with Curry/Klay/Wiggins...defense could hurt, but with Wiseman gone I don't know who you take unless you draft another SG like Okoro. Anyway, I don't know what kind of chance he will get if he stays behind Randle so he might be better served in a new place. Honestly this entire rookie class wasn't all that impressive outside of Ball, Haliburton and Edwards the latter half...maybe Avdija and a few of the guards had some good games. Not sure about Williams.

Knicks should have probably taken Haliburton though...would have made perfect since for them without much of a PG or SG and Barrett/Randle there (though they might have been planning on moving on from Randle before last season).

I never understood why they took Toppin after hiring Thibs as the coach, that seemed like a terrible pairing from day 1.

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Yeah, but theoretically, he would be a guy that could really help Toppin with his defense (though not sure what he did with Towns and Wiggins)....and you could have said the same thing about Ayton after college, so you never know. His defense wasn't thought of highly in the draft, but he was probably a better defender than Ayton in college.

My take on that predraft remains the same Ayton couldn't defend because he didn't understand how to but he always had the physical tools to defend. While Toppin to me was in a hard spot because I don't think he moves well enough to guard modern 4s and isn't big enough for 5s, so it more of a physical thing. Now as a bench scorer, something I think he destined to become that won't matter as much.

I actually think Edwards D is a better Ayton comp, all the physical tools you would want in a defender but he just doesn't know how to play it yet. Who knows if he'll ever actually figure it out, some guys do some don't. Plus the possible 'special' skill with Edwards will be taking it to the hole on O he's got a rare combo of size and athletism for a wing.

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[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

He gone.

Not really up to him.

I think it's BS when a player signs a huge max deal...meaning a team commits to him...and then before it even starts he wants out.

I understand players points about "they can trade us at any time..why should we be loyal" but the point here is they committed a lot of money to him for a long time.

If I were them, I would play the Presti game and just wait until a huge offer came in for him. I wouldn't trade him just for Simmons right now...I'd ask for way more but I don't like building around a PG who can't shoot...not in today's league.

I'd monitor other interested teams like NY and see how those young players do.

What would Miami offer? Bam and Herro? Is it worth moving on from Nurkic to have Bam as main guy? Not that it's not an upgrade and a younger guy but it's just an upgrade to one position and an overrated player in Herro.

A loaded team like the Hawks makes sense for assets, and he could view them as a contender, but he doesn't really make sense with Trae.

I just don't see a contender...unless someone like Kawhi or George leave.

He makes near $40 million so hard to come up with matching money too.

I don't think the Pelicans are a contender with just him and Zion...their supporting cast isn't good enough. I don't think that's much better (if at all) than Booker and Ayton, but we also need Paul, Bridges, Cam, Payne, Crowder to be a contender. Are the Pelicans any better than the Blazers? Blazers have more depth, CJ is underrated. Covington has always been underrated and Nurkic too. A couple years ago he was 16/10/3 with good D, and last year before he went down, 18/10/4 and this year added a 3...so he can score, rebound, pass, hit 3s, block shots and play decent D. Bam can't shoot 3s..is a better passer and probably a better defender but not a huge upgrade. Nurkic is only 26 too. He is a FA but I think he will re-sign if they want him.

If Lillard says that he wants out he will be out. Period.

They will trade him for the best package available.

Simmons + Maxey + some first round picks makes a lot of sense IMO. Lillard in the East would be great for the Suns.

He would be but there would be no rush. Good GMs have learned that waiting will net you better deals. Presti learned this the very hard way.

[bwgood77]

I never understood why they took Toppin after hiring Thibs as the coach, that seemed like a terrible pairing from day 1.

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Yeah, but theoretically, he would be a guy that could really help Toppin with his defense (though not sure what he did with Towns and Wiggins)....and you could have said the same thing about Ayton after college, so you never know. His defense wasn't thought of highly in the draft, but he was probably a better defender than Ayton in college.

My take on that predraft remains the same Ayton couldn't defend because he didn't understand how to but he always had the physical tools to defend. While Toppin to me was in a hard spot because I don't think he moves well enough to guard modern 4s and isn't big enough for 5s, so it more of a physical thing. Now as a bench scorer, something I think he destined to become that won't matter as much.

I actually think Edwards D is a better Ayton comp, all the physical tools you would want in a defender but he just doesn't know how to play it yet. Who knows if he'll ever actually figure it out, some guys do some don't. Plus the possible 'special' skill with Edwards will be taking it to the hole on O he's got a rare combo of size and athletism for a wing.

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Is that your personal analysis on watching Toppin or just taking from what some of the analysts said? He has pretty solid athleticism and I think that is quite overblown. Obviously few guys have the physical tools like Ayton does.

Yeah, Edwards is athletic and has a decent wingspan so maybe he will get there on defense but he has a very long ways to go.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Not really up to him.

I think it's BS when a player signs a huge max deal...meaning a team commits to him...and then before it even starts he wants out.

I understand players points about "they can trade us at any time..why should we be loyal" but the point here is they committed a lot of money to him for a long time.

If I were them, I would play the Presti game and just wait until a huge offer came in for him. I wouldn't trade him just for Simmons right now...I'd ask for way more but I don't like building around a PG who can't shoot...not in today's league.

I'd monitor other interested teams like NY and see how those young players do.

What would Miami offer? Bam and Herro? Is it worth moving on from Nurkic to have Bam as main guy? Not that it's not an upgrade and a younger guy but it's just an upgrade to one position and an overrated player in Herro.

A loaded team like the Hawks makes sense for assets, and he could view them as a contender, but he doesn't really make sense with Trae.

I just don't see a contender...unless someone like Kawhi or George leave.

He makes near $40 million so hard to come up with matching money too.

I don't think the Pelicans are a contender with just him and Zion...their supporting cast isn't good enough. I don't think that's much better (if at all) than Booker and Ayton, but we also need Paul, Bridges, Cam, Payne, Crowder to be a contender. Are the Pelicans any better than the Blazers? Blazers have more depth, CJ is underrated. Covington has always been underrated and Nurkic too. A couple years ago he was 16/10/3 with good D, and last year before he went down, 18/10/4 and this year added a 3...so he can score, rebound, pass, hit 3s, block shots and play decent D. Bam can't shoot 3s..is a better passer and probably a better defender but not a huge upgrade. Nurkic is only 26 too. He is a FA but I think he will re-sign if they want him.

If Lillard says that he wants out he will be out. Period.

They will trade him for the best package available.

Simmons + Maxey + some first round picks makes a lot of sense IMO. Lillard in the East would be great for the Suns.

He would be but there would be no rush. Good GMs have learned that waiting will net you better deals. Presti learned this the very hard way.

The funny thing is I'd argue Presti did better with his Harden trade than Houston just did with theirs. I'm still shocked by how incredibly bad they fumbled that, the return was flat out embarrassing.

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[WeekapaugGroove]

Yeah, but theoretically, he would be a guy that could really help Toppin with his defense (though not sure what he did with Towns and Wiggins)....and you could have said the same thing about Ayton after college, so you never know. His defense wasn't thought of highly in the draft, but he was probably a better defender than Ayton in college.

My take on that predraft remains the same Ayton couldn't defend because he didn't understand how to but he always had the physical tools to defend. While Toppin to me was in a hard spot because I don't think he moves well enough to guard modern 4s and isn't big enough for 5s, so it more of a physical thing. Now as a bench scorer, something I think he destined to become that won't matter as much.

I actually think Edwards D is a better Ayton comp, all the physical tools you would want in a defender but he just doesn't know how to play it yet. Who knows if he'll ever actually figure it out, some guys do some don't. Plus the possible 'special' skill with Edwards will be taking it to the hole on O he's got a rare combo of size and athletism for a wing.

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Is that your personal analysis on watching Toppin or just taking from what some of the analysts said? He has pretty solid athleticism and I think that is quite overblown. Obviously few guys have the physical tools like Ayton does.

Yeah, Edwards is athletic and has a decent wingspan so maybe he will get there on defense but he has a very long ways to go.

I didn't study this past draft as much as some past ones so it's a combo others analysis and watching some highlights. But my little bit of watching I agreed with the draft peeps who didn't think he moved laterally all that well. I honestly started watching that class and just didn't really like anyone. Haliburton, Patrick Williams, and Kira Lewis were the guys I liked the best and even them I didn't love.

I know even less about this upcoming draft, haven't got into that class one bit.

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[AtheJ415]

We are likely to bring everybody back regardless of what happens here. I would like to package Crowder, Saric, and Kaminsky's salaries to bring back something more useful (maybe Covington or Josh Richardson?). Or hell, if D'jounte Murray is actually available I'd consider trading quite a bit for 1 year of him under CP3 before taking the starting role.

Crowder is just horribly overrated imo. I think most here would be really pissed off if they looked at his defensive splits in the last 2 rounds. Bring back Craig. Keep Cam & Bridges. Try to get someone like Noel and a different, cheaper 3 & D wing.

[Frank Lee]

The way they played the ‘Culture Card’ this yr, can’t see them moving Jae. Best bet is start CamJo and let Crowder beat up a second stringer. We gotta add some length and athleticism though. With Saric out for a while, there is 15 C minutes to offer up. Going to be tricky to juggle the needs with the allotted salary spots. But dear gawd, let Shank walk.

[Jdiddy701]

I would not be thrilled if the Suns were to move on from Jae Crowder. I can’t see us beating the Lakers without him. His defense has definitely slipped as of late but made a ton of winning plays in these playoffs. I’m not sure we would be in the finals without him. He’s been a huge part of our culture and success this season. Keep Crowder at all costs.


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[RaisingArizona]

I'd let Craig walk and make Cam the starter next year.

[BobbieL]

I'd let Craig walk and make Cam the starter next year.

I like Torrey Craig and I like Cam Payne

And I get there is the cap, luxury tax and how much Sarver is willing to pay - but if I am James Jones - I might just look a bit deeper into the market to see if there are players that might be better fits moving forward. That doesn't mean Payne and Craig (BAE) aren't back - just means Jones needs to do his due damn diligence. There might be better options.

[bwgood77]

I would not be thrilled if the Suns were to move on from Jae Crowder. I can’t see us beating the Lakers without him. His defense has definitely slipped as of late but made a ton of winning plays in these playoffs. I’m not sure we would be in the finals without him. He’s been a huge part of our culture and success this season. Keep Crowder at all costs.


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He's underrated here. He provides toughness. RAPTOR for example rates him as our biggest impact defender by far. Ayton and Bridges probably have tougher assignments but he has made a difference except when he goes really cold shooting, but he also gets hot shooting sometimes and helps.

There is a reason teams want him and Miami misses him big time.

We won't trade him. Monty says he's hard to keep off the floor. We are in the finals with him playing a big part on our team. Saric I may have traded but can't now...and Monty likes him too much.

I don't think we can add much but we need to draft a ready physical big like Queeta or a ready guard..and can let Moore and/or Galloway go. Then sign a cheap big, particularly if we don't draft one.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I would not be thrilled if the Suns were to move on from Jae Crowder. I can’t see us beating the Lakers without him. His defense has definitely slipped as of late but made a ton of winning plays in these playoffs. I’m not sure we would be in the finals without him. He’s been a huge part of our culture and success this season. Keep Crowder at all costs.


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He's underrated here. He provides toughness. RAPTOR for example rates him as our biggest impact defender by far. Ayton and Bridges probably have tougher assignments but he has made a difference except when he goes really cold shooting, but he also gets hot shooting sometimes and helps.

There is a reason teams want him and Miami misses him big time.

We won't trade him. Monty says he's hard to keep off the floor. We are in the finals with him playing a big part on our team. Saric I may have traded but can't now...and Monty likes him too much.

I don't think we can add much but we need to draft a ready physical big like Queeta or a ready guard..and can let Moore and/or Galloway go. Then sign a cheap big, particularly if we don't draft one.

Yeah I don't get the Crowder hate. But honestly it's seems like it's a select few who just have never liked him so whatever.

Peeps mad he can't shut down Giannis? **** no one can **** shut down Giannis.

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[RaisingArizona]

Crowder is fine but I think he'd be a better 6th man than starter

[Blonde]

It’s tough because PF is our most obvious position to upgrade but Jae has been exactly what we hoped for and a huge part of the team. While I like the idea of trading for Jerami Grant or another upgrade at forward it’s probably most realistic that we will spend resources building around the current starting 5. You have to expect Saric may miss the full year. The front office is likely committed to Payne at backup PG. Nerlens Noel, Blake Griffin, Josh Hart all intrigue me as options to fill in depth that we will be losing. We’ll probably be in play for at least one unexpected veteran willing to sign at a discount.

[darealjuice]

We pretty much need Jae Crowder to be 6' 9" or more lol. His 3-point shooting and defense are his biggest value added, and they're also a great fit with our roster, but we've seen against the Lakers and Bucks that he can also leave us undersized against big teams. The most obvious spot to improve, not an easy task to find the right person for that though. I'd be surprised if he wasn't in a Suns jersey next year.

I'm expecting (hoping for) a pretty quiet offseason. Re-sign CP3, Early Bird Rights for Cam Payne, sign a physical center to back up Ayton, and fill out the roster with good depth signings on minimum contracts like this season. Hopefully Sarver lets us use the MLE to build some more depth. It'd be nice if we could extend Ayton and Bridges without breaking the bank too. We're mostly banking on improved chemistry and internal development making us a better team next year unless James Jones surprises us.

[lilfishi22]

I think it's more about Crowder's value as a starter over someone who is more potent and reliable offensively like CamJ. I've focused on CamJ on both ends of the court and I think he can hang with the best of them. SO that fact that we have someone like CamJ waiting in the wings kind of makes Crowder moveable especially if we can net a true big.

FWIW I don't mind Crowder and I do think he's valuable as a veteran presence, someone who brings toughness and a strong mindset but I also see the chucking he does, the complaining after every foul and just his overall limitations offensively.

[lilfishi22]

We pretty much need Jae Crowder to be 6' 9" or more lol. His 3-point shooting and defense are his biggest value added, and they're also a great fit with our roster, but we've seen against the Lakers and Bucks that he can also leave us undersized against big teams. The most obvious spot to improve, not an easy task to find the right person for that though. I'd be surprised if he wasn't in a Suns jersey next year.

I'm expecting (hoping for) a pretty quiet offseason. Re-sign CP3, Early Bird Rights for Cam Payne, sign a physical center to back up Ayton, and fill out the roster with good depth signings on minimum contracts like this season. Hopefully Sarver lets us use the MLE to build some more depth. It'd be nice if we could extend Ayton and Bridges without breaking the bank too. We're mostly banking on improved chemistry and internal development making us a better team next year unless James Jones surprises us.

Yeah I don't think we're a drastic trade move away from getting over the hump. I mean our biggest strength this year may have been our chemistry brought on just by being relatively healthy. So if anything, it's more about bolstering our roster, especially those end of the bench guys.

[cberry78]

Jae Crowder is the new PJ Tucker.

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[AtheJ415]

Crowder needs to be the 7th or 8th man. Shooting is incredibly streaky and his defense has been running off of reputation the past month. He hasn't defended a lick. And it really, really sucks that we spent a lottery pick on a backup center that we said was a PF and he's not even playable against the Marcus Morris or Bobby Portis's of the world when we need him most. We direly need rebounding and have a 7 footer with super athleticism who apparently cannot play even a minute.