NBA Draft - 2021 Draft Prospects

KqWIN · Post #201 » by **KqWIN** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:54 pm

stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Not to be that guy...but I'm starting to think that it's somewhat likely that this pick will be traded to dump Favors. If Conley is back, this pick is being used to dump Favors.

If we end up taking a prospect, I think it's likely that we know Conley is gone.

That's exactly what came accross my mind in the Conley/Lonzo thread. I can absolutely see us using yet another assett to try to fix the center mistakes of the past. What would that be?

1st for acquiring Bradley + 2 seconds for getting rid off him
2 seconds for getting rid off Ed Davis.
1st for acquiring Udoka
1st/2 2nds for getting rid off Favors.

This is in the span of 3 years. 3 1st round picks and 4 seconds JUST FOR BACKUP CENTER! And this is when we already have Gobert as the starter.

The best part...still no backup Center.

Compared to others, I'm somewhat of a DL apologist. He did assemble a team that was the title favorite during the playoffs. But it's hard to ignore his massive failures in 1) finding a "pg" and 2) finding a backup C when both pursuits should not have been a priority in the first place. We never needed a "PG" to play next to Mitchell and backup C is the easiest position to fill in the league and least important when your best player is also a C.

Catchall · Post #202 » by **Catchall** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:03 pm

Brandon Boston didn't look ready for the NBA in his Pro Day. He struggles from NBA range and looks like he might benefit from another year in school.

stitches · Post #203 » by **stitches** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:10 pm

KqWIN wrote:
stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Not to be that guy...but I'm starting to think that it's somewhat likely that this pick will be traded to dump Favors. If Conley is back, this pick is being used to dump Favors.

If we end up taking a prospect, I think it's likely that we know Conley is gone.

That's exactly what came accross my mind in the Conley/Lonzo thread. I can absolutely see us using yet another assett to try to fix the center mistakes of the past. What would that be?

1st for acquiring Bradley + 2 seconds for getting rid off him
2 seconds for getting rid off Ed Davis.
1st for acquiring Udoka
1st/2 2nds for getting rid off Favors.

This is in the span of 3 years. 3 1st round picks and 4 seconds JUST FOR BACKUP CENTER! And this is when we already have Gobert as the starter.

The best part...still no backup Center.

It's similar to the PG situation. We've spent like 6-7 first round picks since 2013 on PGs and we still don't have a PG to play in the playoffs. Part of it is misfortune with Conley's injuries, but it's not like he was perfect picture of health even before he came to the Jazz... It was part of the risk we took and we have nothing to show for it. Other part is misidentifying that we need a specific position player regardless of their weaknesses - small(Conley), non-shooter non offensive threat(Rubio).

KqWIN wrote:Compared to others, I'm somewhat of a DL apologist. He did assemble a team that was the title favorite during the playoffs. But it's hard to ignore his massive failures in 1) finding a "pg" and 2) finding a backup C when both pursuits should not have been a priority in the first place. We never needed a "PG" to play next to Mitchell and backup C is the easiest position to fill in the league and least important when your best player is also a C.

Yeah, right now I don't think we need a PG... we need players with specific skillsets more than small playmaking guards. If Mitchell is your star you need to put him in the center of your team building just like we did to some extent with Gobert(surrounding him with tons of shooting). Now we need to maximize Mitchell's skills and minimize his weaknesses. We need bigger guards/wings to be able to somewhat take the load off of Mitchell on defense, if he's going to be heavily focused on on offense.

SoCalJazzFan · Post #204 » by **SoCalJazzFan** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:01 pm

While I was hoping Mitchell would become a PG, I remain unconvinced. At best he is a combo guard. When he is acting as the PG, he slowly walks the ball up the court, in what appears to be looking for his opening to drive or shoot, and then secondarily looks to create for others. While his court vision and passing have improved, he really doesn't have good feel or tempo to run the plays or system, IMO. I think that having Conley out of the playoffs really hurt us as the PnR basically disappeared. The unfortunate reality is that we have a really good player whose playing style should be a shooting guard, but has the size of a point guard. Ideally, IMO, you find a taller PG who is a good defender vs taller players and can still hit his outside shots (good luck prying that player away from another team).

If the Jazz give up their FRP this year to unload Favors, I will be pissed (again). That move could come back and bite us if we face the Lakers in the playoffs next year as Favors actually matches up decently with AD. Doke might be a better rim protector than Favors, but from what I saw in his pre-draft videos he is extremely limited to playing close to the rim. Basically Gobert lite with added limitations. That was why I was so ticked off when DL drafted him.

bkohler · Post #205 » by **bkohler** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:04 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:If the Jazz give up their FRP this year to unload Favors, I will be pissed (again). That move could come back and bite us if we face the Lakers in the playoffs next year as Favors actually matches up decently with AD. Doke might be a better rim protector than Favors, but from what I saw in his pre-draft videos he is extremely limited to playing close to the rim. Basically Gobert lite with added limitations. That was why I was so ticked off when DL drafted him.

I think these two decisions exacerbate each other drafting Dok is more forgivable without signing Favors. Signing Favors works out much better drafting a wing. The two together seem unforgivable.

On the draft topic - I've been wondering If we'd be willing to give up Ingles/Bogey/Clarkson to get into the mid lottery. I'd personally love Moses Moody or Corey Kispert next to Donovan moving forward. Both look awesome with analytics and Moody in particular feels like the ideal size of player to put beside Donovan plus knock-down shooting.

sip · Post #206 » by **sip** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:04 am

KqWIN wrote:Not to be that guy...but I'm starting to think that it's somewhat likely that this pick will be traded to dump Favors. If Conley is back, this pick is being used to dump Favors.

If we end up taking a prospect, I think it's likely that we know Conley is gone.

If Lindsey was still in charge I guarantee this would be the case. I have a little more hope with Zanik in charge because I think he will want to prove that he can identify draft talent. The reality is that he is going to have a short window to prove himself and when you are a cash strapped team you have to be able to recognize cheap draft talent and free agents. That is at least my hope.

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babyjax13 · Post #207 » by **babyjax13** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:16 pm

Locke's numbers seem to like Ayo Dosunmu and Jared Butler - who may slip due to concerns about a heart condition.

SoCalJazzFan · Post #208 » by **SoCalJazzFan** » Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:46 am

babyjax13 wrote:Locke's numbers seem to like Ayo Dosunmu and Jared Butler - who may slip due to concerns about a heart condition.

Ayo could potentially be that larger pg/combo guard to pair with DM. I wouldn’t hate that selection at all, although I would hope the Jazz would buy a pick in the 30s or 40s to get a wing or small ball forward.

red4hf · Post #209 » by **red4hf** » Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:38 am

I am all in on the Roko pick......

Catchall · Post #210 » by **Catchall** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:16 pm

red4hf wrote:I am all in on the Roko pick......

Roko left the Combine early and has only done one workout that I've seen reported. I wonder if he has a promise and he's shutting down his process.

This guy agrees with you though... See 20:30.

Watch on YouTube

SoCalJazzFan · Post #211 » by **SoCalJazzFan** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:15 pm

The only guy I've heard that the Jazz have worked out is Bones Hyland. Have you heard of anyone else?

SoCalJazzFan · Post #212 » by **SoCalJazzFan** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:21 am

This guy could end up pushing down other prospects towards the end of the first round. I think I still like Ayo D. if the Jazz are looking for another guard to pair with DM, though.

Read on Twitter

sip · Post #213 » by **sip** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:52 am

I really like Jared Butler. He has solid size for a combo guard and is just really smooth. He has a lower release point which concerns me but he gets rid of the ball quickly so I don't think it will be an issue. He has a nice mid range game as well. He is one of those guys that can contribute immediately in the backcourt and has the potential to be a longterm starter with Mitchell. His overall game actually reminds me a little of Derrick White.

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TO11 · Post #214 » by **TO11** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:51 am

sip wrote:I really like Jared Butler. He has solid size for a combo guard and is just really smooth. He has a lower release point which concerns me but he gets rid of the ball quickly so I don't think it will be an issue. He has a nice mid range game as well. He is one of those guys that can contribute immediately in the backcourt and has the potential to be a longterm starter with Mitchell. His overall game actually reminds me a little of Derrick White.

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I really liked Jared Butler too! I think he will be good in the NBA, I haven't looked at mock drafts but I think he will get picked up earlier than we can take him.

babyjax13 · Post #215 » by **babyjax13** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:20 am

If Butler is there at 30, which would really only happen because of lingering questions about his long-term outlook (i.e. will he be like LaMarcus Aldridge and eventually have to retire because of his heart, will he be like Jeff Green and have to miss a season for a transplant), I'd absolutely take him...unless Ayo is there, I'm all in on him. But I do think I'd prefer Butler to Roko. Really, though, any of those three would make me extremely happy.

Catchall · Post #216 » by **Catchall** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:46 pm

I think Roko should be in the same draft range as Jalen Johnson and Franz Wagner. Maybe just a touch below. He's a late-lottery / mid-1st guy for me. Easily top 20. I think he has a very high floor, similar to Rui Hachimura. The fact that he's 3 years younger entering the draft gives him more upside.

I think he's my guy outside the lottery, although I'd also like to see what the Jazz could do with Garuba.

Read on Twitter

red4hf · Post #217 » by **red4hf** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:16 pm

I'm guessing Roko is going to be picked by one of the teams with multiple picks in mid to late first...... OKC, Houston or NY.......Maybe for a later trade......

stitches · Post #218 » by **stitches** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:41 pm

Yeah, I like Roko a lot more than NBA draft analysts seem to. That's why I was surprised when earlier in the thread someone said he's being mocked in the second and when I checked it was indeed true. I have no idea why he would be a second round pick. I'd take him back end of the lottery pretty easily and at 30 he would be a huge steal IMO.

sip · Post #219 » by **sip** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:34 pm

Roko has thunder bound written all over him. They can't use all their picks on players that would join the team next year so he is perfect as draft stash. I could see the rockets viewing him the same way if he slips past the thunder.

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Catchall · Post #220 » by **Catchall** » Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:43 pm

Aaaaannnnndddd just like that, Roko withdrew from the draft yesterday. So two guys I liked for the Jazz--Roko and Benedict Mathurin--withdrew in order to improve their draft position.

I'm getting the feeling that the Jazz are going to move off their pick at #30 one way or another. If the Jazz stay at #30, then Ayo, Butler and maybe Thor are candidates. I'm still intrigued by Vrenz Bleijenberg.