2021-22 regular season thread

[Revenged25]

What I cringe at is the argument that Sexton doesn't make the team better empty stats box of nuts etc so we should not expect anyone else to value him as high as he should be if he were on a better team doing the same thing yet we praise the other guard as a kid whos job is making the team better yet he gets no scrutiny for them not in fact being better.

Other teams and their fans are getting the chance to show how much they value Sexton. I think Knicks fans are convincing themselves that Collin would be worth matching whatever he gets offered as a RFA, but they still don't want to give up much for that opportunity, certainly nowhere near what they'd give up for Lillard who's already 30, owed a ton of money, and would eat up their cap space.

There's actually a fair amount of evidence that if Collin is your team's primary playmaker - you're going to have a bad team, and whether you like it or not that's a problem for a PG sized player.

Which isn't to say it's impossible to build a good team with Collin playing more of a scoring and secondary play-maker role. We've seen similar things playout with Kyrie, but we sure don't have LeBron James or James Harden on our roster. Maybe Cade could be that guy that would make Collin fit for us, but getting him is an unlikely outcome.

Garland is simply an easier fit when we're on the verge of drafting what we hope will be a franchise SG or PG, plus we have more time to make a decision on what we want to pay him.

THAT IS NOT HIS FU JOB ON THIS TEAM

Especially on this team. I think he would do well on a team that actually emphasizes and utilizes a lead guard that drives a lot, like Thibs. Could you imagine Sexton playing the DRose role for Thibs, with DRose actually there to help him better locate the open man on his attacks.

I mean obviously DRose had a much more natural feel for the game, but is it weird to see comparisons in Sexton's and DRose's games at least?

[jbk1234]

What I cringe at is the argument that Sexton doesn't make the team better empty stats box of nuts etc so we should not expect anyone else to value him as high as he should be if he were on a better team doing the same thing yet we praise the other guard as a kid whos job is making the team better yet he gets no scrutiny for them not in fact being better.

Other teams and their fans are getting the chance to show how much they value Sexton. I think Knicks fans are convincing themselves that Collin would be worth matching whatever he gets offered as a RFA, but they still don't want to give up much for that opportunity, certainly nowhere near what they'd give up for Lillard who's already 30, owed a ton of money, and would eat up their cap space.

There's actually a fair amount of evidence that if Collin is your team's primary playmaker - you're going to have a bad team, and whether you like it or not that's a problem for a PG sized player.

Which isn't to say it's impossible to build a good team with Collin playing more of a scoring and secondary play-maker role. We've seen similar things playout with Kyrie, but we sure don't have LeBron James or James Harden on our roster. Maybe Cade could be that guy that would make Collin fit for us, but getting him is an unlikely outcome.

Garland is simply an easier fit when we're on the verge of drafting what we hope will be a franchise SG or PG, plus we have more time to make a decision on what we want to pay him.

THAT IS NOT HIS FU JOB ON THIS TEAM
IF YOU WANT TO GO THERE WHERE IS THE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR DG WHOS JOB THAT IS AND THE LOSING RECORD???
But you can clearly ignore that till blue in the face and when he is the primary at some point in his career which should be sooner than later with DG out of his way... you maybe will understand he is more than a microwave.
No org is using rgm forums to generate player value

Two thing: 1) Relax; and 2) the idea that three different coaching staffs haven't asked him to do any more than what he's doing, three seasons in a row, strikes me as borderline impossible.

Sexton's job isn't whatever you decide it is. The organization gets to make that call. If they felt he was doing everything asked of him, then he'd probably be getting the extension he wants.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[jbk1234]

Other teams and their fans are getting the chance to show how much they value Sexton. I think Knicks fans are convincing themselves that Collin would be worth matching whatever he gets offered as a RFA, but they still don't want to give up much for that opportunity, certainly nowhere near what they'd give up for Lillard who's already 30, owed a ton of money, and would eat up their cap space.

There's actually a fair amount of evidence that if Collin is your team's primary playmaker - you're going to have a bad team, and whether you like it or not that's a problem for a PG sized player.

Which isn't to say it's impossible to build a good team with Collin playing more of a scoring and secondary play-maker role. We've seen similar things playout with Kyrie, but we sure don't have LeBron James or James Harden on our roster. Maybe Cade could be that guy that would make Collin fit for us, but getting him is an unlikely outcome.

Garland is simply an easier fit when we're on the verge of drafting what we hope will be a franchise SG or PG, plus we have more time to make a decision on what we want to pay him.

THAT IS NOT HIS FU JOB ON THIS TEAM

Especially on this team. I think he would do well on a team that actually emphasizes and utilizes a lead guard that drives a lot, like Thibs. Could you imagine Sexton playing the DRose role for Thibs, with DRose actually there to help him better locate the open man on his attacks.

I mean obviously DRose had a much more natural feel for the game, but is it weird to see comparisons in Sexton's and DRose's games at least?

There are a number of plausible scenarios for how things would work out for Sexton under Thibs. Not all of them are good.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[mcfly1204]

Other teams and their fans are getting the chance to show how much they value Sexton. I think Knicks fans are convincing themselves that Collin would be worth matching whatever he gets offered as a RFA, but they still don't want to give up much for that opportunity, certainly nowhere near what they'd give up for Lillard who's already 30, owed a ton of money, and would eat up their cap space.

There's actually a fair amount of evidence that if Collin is your team's primary playmaker - you're going to have a bad team, and whether you like it or not that's a problem for a PG sized player.

Which isn't to say it's impossible to build a good team with Collin playing more of a scoring and secondary play-maker role. We've seen similar things playout with Kyrie, but we sure don't have LeBron James or James Harden on our roster. Maybe Cade could be that guy that would make Collin fit for us, but getting him is an unlikely outcome.

Garland is simply an easier fit when we're on the verge of drafting what we hope will be a franchise SG or PG, plus we have more time to make a decision on what we want to pay him.

THAT IS NOT HIS FU JOB ON THIS TEAM

Especially on this team. I think he would do well on a team that actually emphasizes and utilizes a lead guard that drives a lot, like Thibs. Could you imagine Sexton playing the DRose role for Thibs, with DRose actually there to help him better locate the open man on his attacks.

I mean obviously DRose had a much more natural feel for the game, but is it weird to see comparisons in Sexton's and DRose's games at least?

The Rose reference is kind of funny in that he has averaged more than 5 asp once since his ACL injury in 2012. One could even go on to argue that his high assist numbers pre-injury were a result of bailout drive and kick scenarios, along with a strong cast of shooters (Deng, Boozer, Korver, etc.).

[Revenged25]

THAT IS NOT HIS FU JOB ON THIS TEAM

Especially on this team. I think he would do well on a team that actually emphasizes and utilizes a lead guard that drives a lot, like Thibs. Could you imagine Sexton playing the DRose role for Thibs, with DRose actually there to help him better locate the open man on his attacks.

I mean obviously DRose had a much more natural feel for the game, but is it weird to see comparisons in Sexton's and DRose's games at least?

There are a number of plausible scenarios for how things would work out for Sextonunder Thibs. Not all of them are good.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I like to think it'd be a lot better for Sexton under Thibs than currently. Granted this is just Sexton + Thibs pairing, not looking at a lot of the other deciding factors for how well it plays out. Like I think Sexton/Okoro would be good fits under Thibs, Mobley probably would be, not sure how he would like Allen/Garland. Nance is just a glue guy so he fits regardless.

My problem with Bickerstaff is I just don't feel like he has a real plan so he can't make a real push for needs and I think Altman's plan was just acquire the best talent so the roster is a jumble missmash of pieces that don't fit well as a whole. Some good pieces when combined certain ways, but there is at least 1 piece constantly causing issues leaving various size holes in the puzzle.

Push forward with Sexton - Need better shooters on the outside, questions about his ability to be a lead facilitator due to his AST%/USG% ratio being under 1 still, though improved up to .74 from .53 previously. Though defense should be improved by going back to the defacto PG and not being matched against larger opponents. This also moves Okoro to SG which improves his play defensively potentially but his shooting is a question mark. Leaves a big hole at SF, would likely be best to find someone that can shoot from outside and do some facilitating. PF/C would be Mobley/Allen, good defensive back-end, really lacking offensively from range, maybe even midrange depending on Mobley's shot.

Push forward with Garland - Need to find a decisive, confident, elite scorer to replace Sexton. Was a bad defender while guarding PGs already, not sure that changes much by the fact Sexton is gone, but Okoro moves down to SG in theory which improves backcourt size at least. SF still needs someone that can score and have size, likely with some good midrange to 3pt shooting. Most players that fill this role are guys like Butler/Kawhi/PG3/LeBron etc that are the Queen of the Prom. Mobley still likely the pick at #3 so the frontcourt will be solid defensively, but still questions about spacing and shooting.

I mean no matter what this roster has issues, most of which will be addressed with the #3 pick and how Mobley's game looks next to Allen. It's almost to a point where the Cavs would be better off trying to get more of a stretch 5 to pair with Mobley temporarily and moving off of Allen already, regardless of the path they go.

[Revenged25]

THAT IS NOT HIS FU JOB ON THIS TEAM

Especially on this team. I think he would do well on a team that actually emphasizes and utilizes a lead guard that drives a lot, like Thibs. Could you imagine Sexton playing the DRose role for Thibs, with DRose actually there to help him better locate the open man on his attacks.

I mean obviously DRose had a much more natural feel for the game, but is it weird to see comparisons in Sexton's and DRose's games at least?

The Rose reference is kind of funny in that he has averaged more than 5 asp once since his ACL injury in 2012. One could even go on to argue that his high assist numbers pre-injury were a result of bailout drive and kick scenarios, along with a strong cast of shooters (Deng, Boozer, Korver, etc.).

That was sort of my thinking too, but I think DRose also had a better feel for the bailouts than Sexton which helps as well, not to mention the much better cast around him. Like if it was ONLY surrounding talent, Sexton would've still had more assists, but I think it's a combination of DRose being more natural along with the talent.

[JonFromVA]

What I cringe at is the argument that Sexton doesn't make the team better empty stats box of nuts etc so we should not expect anyone else to value him as high as he should be if he were on a better team doing the same thing yet we praise the other guard as a kid whos job is making the team better yet he gets no scrutiny for them not in fact being better.

Other teams and their fans are getting the chance to show how much they value Sexton. I think Knicks fans are convincing themselves that Collin would be worth matching whatever he gets offered as a RFA, but they still don't want to give up much for that opportunity, certainly nowhere near what they'd give up for Lillard who's already 30, owed a ton of money, and would eat up their cap space.

There's actually a fair amount of evidence that if Collin is your team's primary playmaker - you're going to have a bad team, and whether you like it or not that's a problem for a PG sized player.

Which isn't to say it's impossible to build a good team with Collin playing more of a scoring and secondary play-maker role. We've seen similar things playout with Kyrie, but we sure don't have LeBron James or James Harden on our roster. Maybe Cade could be that guy that would make Collin fit for us, but getting him is an unlikely outcome.

Garland is simply an easier fit when we're on the verge of drafting what we hope will be a franchise SG or PF, plus we have more time to make a decision on what we want to pay him.

The only 2 correct options at #3 are Mobley and Green. Suggs, Barnes, Kuminga, etc aren't in that tier and Cade likely isn't there at #3, but if he is, then that's a different story.

Also the reason Garland is an easier fit is because he's a very good but not great NBA PG. He's not someone you actually build around, just someone you are happy is running point for you. Sexton is more of a piece you build around, but getting the right pieces around him, including coaching, is tough. For example Thibs is a great example of a coach that loves a lead scoring guard that attacks the basket extremely well, which Sexton does among the best in the NBA. With Thibs they could probably even improve on Sexton's facilitating using the pull that his drives create. I mean Thibs favorite PG he always goes back to is Derrick Rose after wall.

We won't know their respective ceilings for years (for instance, Garland is just hitting the age Steph Curry was when he entered the league); so, IMO it's more about their respective development curves.

To build around either player you have to project things neither has demonstrated.

But Garland is tracking very well as a young point ... and I think if you could put up a poll with Knicks fans, I suspect the majority would prefer to trade for Garland over Sexton if they were both being offered.

[JonFromVA]

What I cringe at is the argument that Sexton doesn't make the team better empty stats box of nuts etc so we should not expect anyone else to value him as high as he should be if he were on a better team doing the same thing yet we praise the other guard as a kid whos job is making the team better yet he gets no scrutiny for them not in fact being better.

Other teams and their fans are getting the chance to show how much they value Sexton. I think Knicks fans are convincing themselves that Collin would be worth matching whatever he gets offered as a RFA, but they still don't want to give up much for that opportunity, certainly nowhere near what they'd give up for Lillard who's already 30, owed a ton of money, and would eat up their cap space.

There's actually a fair amount of evidence that if Collin is your team's primary playmaker - you're going to have a bad team, and whether you like it or not that's a problem for a PG sized player.

Which isn't to say it's impossible to build a good team with Collin playing more of a scoring and secondary play-maker role. We've seen similar things playout with Kyrie, but we sure don't have LeBron James or James Harden on our roster. Maybe Cade could be that guy that would make Collin fit for us, but getting him is an unlikely outcome.

Garland is simply an easier fit when we're on the verge of drafting what we hope will be a franchise SG or PG, plus we have more time to make a decision on what we want to pay him.

THAT IS NOT HIS FU JOB ON THIS TEAM
IF YOU WANT TO GO THERE WHERE IS THE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR DG WHOS JOB THAT IS AND THE LOSING RECORD???
But you can clearly ignore that till blue in the face and when he is the primary at some point in his career which should be sooner than later with DG out of his way... you maybe will understand he is more than a microwave.
No org is using rgm forums to generate player value

So wait, are you saying the only thing that matters is the W-L record?

[JonFromVA]

Especially on this team. I think he would do well on a team that actually emphasizes and utilizes a lead guard that drives a lot, like Thibs. Could you imagine Sexton playing the DRose role for Thibs, with DRose actually there to help him better locate the open man on his attacks.

I mean obviously DRose had a much more natural feel for the game, but is it weird to see comparisons in Sexton's and DRose's games at least?

There are a number of plausible scenarios for how things would work out for Sextonunder Thibs. Not all of them are good.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I like to think it'd be a lot better for Sexton under Thibs than currently. Granted this is just Sexton + Thibs pairing, not looking at a lot of the other deciding factors for how well it plays out. Like I think Sexton/Okoro would be good fits under Thibs, Mobley probably would be, not sure how he would like Allen/Garland. Nance is just a glue guy so he fits regardless.

My problem with Bickerstaff is I just don't feel like he has a real plan so he can't make a real push for needs and I think Altman's plan was just acquire the best talent so the roster is a jumble missmash of pieces that don't fit well as a whole. Some good pieces when combined certain ways, but there is at least 1 piece constantly causing issues leaving various size holes in the puzzle.

Push forward with Sexton - Need better shooters on the outside, questions about his ability to be a lead facilitator due to his AST%/USG% ratio being under 1 still, though improved up to .74 from .53 previously. Though defense should be improved by going back to the defacto PG and not being matched against larger opponents. This also moves Okoro to SG which improves his play defensively potentially but his shooting is a question mark. Leaves a big hole at SF, would likely be best to find someone that can shoot from outside and do some facilitating. PF/C would be Mobley/Allen, good defensive back-end, really lacking offensively from range, maybe even midrange depending on Mobley's shot.

Push forward with Garland - Need to find a decisive, confident, elite scorer to replace Sexton. Was a bad defender while guarding PGs already, not sure that changes much by the fact Sexton is gone, but Okoro moves down to SG in theory which improves backcourt size at least. SF still needs someone that can score and have size, likely with some good midrange to 3pt shooting. Most players that fill this role are guys like Butler/Kawhi/PG3/LeBron etc that are the Queen of the Prom. Mobley still likely the pick at #3 so the frontcourt will be solid defensively, but still questions about spacing and shooting.

I mean no matter what this roster has issues, most of which will be addressed with the #3 pick and how Mobley's game looks next to Allen. It's almost to a point where the Cavs would be better off trying to get more of a stretch 5 to pair with Mobley temporarily and moving off of Allen already, regardless of the path they go.

a) We may have the chance to draft a confident/elite scorer;
b) Who knows how Garland's game expands as a scorer if he had no choice but to take a lot more shots.

[mcfly1204]

There are a number of plausible scenarios for how things would work out for Sextonunder Thibs. Not all of them are good.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I like to think it'd be a lot better for Sexton under Thibs than currently. Granted this is just Sexton + Thibs pairing, not looking at a lot of the other deciding factors for how well it plays out. Like I think Sexton/Okoro would be good fits under Thibs, Mobley probably would be, not sure how he would like Allen/Garland. Nance is just a glue guy so he fits regardless.

My problem with Bickerstaff is I just don't feel like he has a real plan so he can't make a real push for needs and I think Altman's plan was just acquire the best talent so the roster is a jumble missmash of pieces that don't fit well as a whole. Some good pieces when combined certain ways, but there is at least 1 piece constantly causing issues leaving various size holes in the puzzle.

Push forward with Sexton - Need better shooters on the outside, questions about his ability to be a lead facilitator due to his AST%/USG% ratio being under 1 still, though improved up to .74 from .53 previously. Though defense should be improved by going back to the defacto PG and not being matched against larger opponents. This also moves Okoro to SG which improves his play defensively potentially but his shooting is a question mark. Leaves a big hole at SF, would likely be best to find someone that can shoot from outside and do some facilitating. PF/C would be Mobley/Allen, good defensive back-end, really lacking offensively from range, maybe even midrange depending on Mobley's shot.

Push forward with Garland - Need to find a decisive, confident, elite scorer to replace Sexton. Was a bad defender while guarding PGs already, not sure that changes much by the fact Sexton is gone, but Okoro moves down to SG in theory which improves backcourt size at least. SF still needs someone that can score and have size, likely with some good midrange to 3pt shooting. Most players that fill this role are guys like Butler/Kawhi/PG3/LeBron etc that are the Queen of the Prom. Mobley still likely the pick at #3 so the frontcourt will be solid defensively, but still questions about spacing and shooting.

I mean no matter what this roster has issues, most of which will be addressed with the #3 pick and how Mobley's game looks next to Allen. It's almost to a point where the Cavs would be better off trying to get more of a stretch 5 to pair with Mobley temporarily and moving off of Allen already, regardless of the path they go.

a) We may have the chance to draft a confident/elite scorer;
b) Who knows how Garland's game expands as a scorer if he had no choice but to take a lot more shots.

Mobley intrigues me at #3. With his ability as a roller, I can only imagine what Garland's assist rate could\should spike to if Mobley ends up with the Cavs.

[Revenged25]

Other teams and their fans are getting the chance to show how much they value Sexton. I think Knicks fans are convincing themselves that Collin would be worth matching whatever he gets offered as a RFA, but they still don't want to give up much for that opportunity, certainly nowhere near what they'd give up for Lillard who's already 30, owed a ton of money, and would eat up their cap space.

There's actually a fair amount of evidence that if Collin is your team's primary playmaker - you're going to have a bad team, and whether you like it or not that's a problem for a PG sized player.

Which isn't to say it's impossible to build a good team with Collin playing more of a scoring and secondary play-maker role. We've seen similar things playout with Kyrie, but we sure don't have LeBron James or James Harden on our roster. Maybe Cade could be that guy that would make Collin fit for us, but getting him is an unlikely outcome.

Garland is simply an easier fit when we're on the verge of drafting what we hope will be a franchise SG or PF, plus we have more time to make a decision on what we want to pay him.

The only 2 correct options at #3 are Mobley and Green. Suggs, Barnes, Kuminga, etc aren't in that tier and Cade likely isn't there at #3, but if he is, then that's a different story.

Also the reason Garland is an easier fit is because he's a very good but not great NBA PG. He's not someone you actually build around, just someone you are happy is running point for you. Sexton is more of a piece you build around, but getting the right pieces around him, including coaching, is tough. For example Thibs is a great example of a coach that loves a lead scoring guard that attacks the basket extremely well, which Sexton does among the best in the NBA. With Thibs they could probably even improve on Sexton's facilitating using the pull that his drives create. I mean Thibs favorite PG he always goes back to is Derrick Rose after wall.

We won't know their respective ceilings for years (for instance, Garland is just hitting the age Steph Curry was when he entered the league); so, IMO it's more about their respective development curves.

To build around either player you have to project things neither has demonstrated.

But Garland is tracking very well as a young point ... and I think if you could put up a poll with Knicks fans, I suspect the majority would prefer to trade for Garland over Sexton if they were both being offered.

Garland isn't Steph please will people stop with this asinine comps, even based on the age he's entering the league. Difference is Steph shot 3's like most people shoot 2s. On top of that Steph was confident and decisive. If the shot was there he was taking it and he was confident he was making it. Like just stop, some players have it some don't. Garland has the tools, but he doesn't have the mentality and that plays just as big, if not bigger, factor in development.

[Revenged25]

There are a number of plausible scenarios for how things would work out for Sextonunder Thibs. Not all of them are good.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I like to think it'd be a lot better for Sexton under Thibs than currently. Granted this is just Sexton + Thibs pairing, not looking at a lot of the other deciding factors for how well it plays out. Like I think Sexton/Okoro would be good fits under Thibs, Mobley probably would be, not sure how he would like Allen/Garland. Nance is just a glue guy so he fits regardless.

My problem with Bickerstaff is I just don't feel like he has a real plan so he can't make a real push for needs and I think Altman's plan was just acquire the best talent so the roster is a jumble missmash of pieces that don't fit well as a whole. Some good pieces when combined certain ways, but there is at least 1 piece constantly causing issues leaving various size holes in the puzzle.

Push forward with Sexton - Need better shooters on the outside, questions about his ability to be a lead facilitator due to his AST%/USG% ratio being under 1 still, though improved up to .74 from .53 previously. Though defense should be improved by going back to the defacto PG and not being matched against larger opponents. This also moves Okoro to SG which improves his play defensively potentially but his shooting is a question mark. Leaves a big hole at SF, would likely be best to find someone that can shoot from outside and do some facilitating. PF/C would be Mobley/Allen, good defensive back-end, really lacking offensively from range, maybe even midrange depending on Mobley's shot.

Push forward with Garland - Need to find a decisive, confident, elite scorer to replace Sexton. Was a bad defender while guarding PGs already, not sure that changes much by the fact Sexton is gone, but Okoro moves down to SG in theory which improves backcourt size at least. SF still needs someone that can score and have size, likely with some good midrange to 3pt shooting. Most players that fill this role are guys like Butler/Kawhi/PG3/LeBron etc that are the Queen of the Prom. Mobley still likely the pick at #3 so the frontcourt will be solid defensively, but still questions about spacing and shooting.

I mean no matter what this roster has issues, most of which will be addressed with the #3 pick and how Mobley's game looks next to Allen. It's almost to a point where the Cavs would be better off trying to get more of a stretch 5 to pair with Mobley temporarily and moving off of Allen already, regardless of the path they go.

a) We may have the chance to draft a confident/elite scorer;
b) Who knows how Garland's game expands as a scorer if he had no choice but to take a lot more shots.

a) If Green is there at #3, it's just Sexton with a little extra size. Still not expected to be a plus defender. Might as well just trade Sexton & #3 for Lavine if you want to see what it'd look like with Garland/Green. I'm telling you now, it still won't be pretty.
b) Real scorers don't need to have "no other choice" to take a lot more shots. Not to mention who the hell else should've been taking the shots on the Cavs if not Garland or Sexton? No one else could shoot and/or were healthy.

[JonFromVA]

The only 2 correct options at #3 are Mobley and Green. Suggs, Barnes, Kuminga, etc aren't in that tier and Cade likely isn't there at #3, but if he is, then that's a different story.

Also the reason Garland is an easier fit is because he's a very good but not great NBA PG. He's not someone you actually build around, just someone you are happy is running point for you. Sexton is more of a piece you build around, but getting the right pieces around him, including coaching, is tough. For example Thibs is a great example of a coach that loves a lead scoring guard that attacks the basket extremely well, which Sexton does among the best in the NBA. With Thibs they could probably even improve on Sexton's facilitating using the pull that his drives create. I mean Thibs favorite PG he always goes back to is Derrick Rose after wall.

We won't know their respective ceilings for years (for instance, Garland is just hitting the age Steph Curry was when he entered the league); so, IMO it's more about their respective development curves.

To build around either player you have to project things neither has demonstrated.

But Garland is tracking very well as a young point ... and I think if you could put up a poll with Knicks fans, I suspect the majority would prefer to trade for Garland over Sexton if they were both being offered.

Garland isn't Steph please will people stop with this asinine comps, even based on the age he's entering the league. Difference is Steph shot 3's like most people shoot 2s. On top of that Steph was confident and decisive. If the shot was there he was taking it and he was confident he was making it. Like just stop, some players have it some don't. Garland has the tools, but he doesn't have the mentality and that plays just as big, if not bigger, factor in development.

Nope, not going to stop until Garland has the chance to prove himself one way or another.

All the traits you list that you feel Steph demonstrated and Garland has not come directly from success ... chicken meet egg, cart meet horse.

I'm never going to knock a player for a lack of irrational confidence.

[JonFromVA]

I like to think it'd be a lot better for Sexton under Thibs than currently. Granted this is just Sexton + Thibs pairing, not looking at a lot of the other deciding factors for how well it plays out. Like I think Sexton/Okoro would be good fits under Thibs, Mobley probably would be, not sure how he would like Allen/Garland. Nance is just a glue guy so he fits regardless.

My problem with Bickerstaff is I just don't feel like he has a real plan so he can't make a real push for needs and I think Altman's plan was just acquire the best talent so the roster is a jumble missmash of pieces that don't fit well as a whole. Some good pieces when combined certain ways, but there is at least 1 piece constantly causing issues leaving various size holes in the puzzle.

Push forward with Sexton - Need better shooters on the outside, questions about his ability to be a lead facilitator due to his AST%/USG% ratio being under 1 still, though improved up to .74 from .53 previously. Though defense should be improved by going back to the defacto PG and not being matched against larger opponents. This also moves Okoro to SG which improves his play defensively potentially but his shooting is a question mark. Leaves a big hole at SF, would likely be best to find someone that can shoot from outside and do some facilitating. PF/C would be Mobley/Allen, good defensive back-end, really lacking offensively from range, maybe even midrange depending on Mobley's shot.

Push forward with Garland - Need to find a decisive, confident, elite scorer to replace Sexton. Was a bad defender while guarding PGs already, not sure that changes much by the fact Sexton is gone, but Okoro moves down to SG in theory which improves backcourt size at least. SF still needs someone that can score and have size, likely with some good midrange to 3pt shooting. Most players that fill this role are guys like Butler/Kawhi/PG3/LeBron etc that are the Queen of the Prom. Mobley still likely the pick at #3 so the frontcourt will be solid defensively, but still questions about spacing and shooting.

I mean no matter what this roster has issues, most of which will be addressed with the #3 pick and how Mobley's game looks next to Allen. It's almost to a point where the Cavs would be better off trying to get more of a stretch 5 to pair with Mobley temporarily and moving off of Allen already, regardless of the path they go.

a) We may have the chance to draft a confident/elite scorer;
b) Who knows how Garland's game expands as a scorer if he had no choice but to take a lot more shots.

a) If Green is there at #3, it's just Sexton with a little extra size. Still not expected to be a plus defender. Might as well just trade Sexton & #3 for Lavine if you want to see what it'd look like with Garland/Green. I'm telling you now, it still won't be pretty.
b) Real scorers don't need to have "no other choice" to take a lot more shots. Not to mention who the hell else should've been taking the shots on the Cavs if not Garland or Sexton? No one else could shoot and/or were healthy.

The draft is a crap shoot, but the Cavs wouldn't be drafting Green if they thought he was just Sexton with a 1" wider wingspan.

I'm not particularly interested in what a "real scorer" would have done. We should be trying to instill and encourage good habits in our young players.

[Stillwater]

I like to think it'd be a lot better for Sexton under Thibs than currently. Granted this is just Sexton + Thibs pairing, not looking at a lot of the other deciding factors for how well it plays out. Like I think Sexton/Okoro would be good fits under Thibs, Mobley probably would be, not sure how he would like Allen/Garland. Nance is just a glue guy so he fits regardless.

My problem with Bickerstaff is I just don't feel like he has a real plan so he can't make a real push for needs and I think Altman's plan was just acquire the best talent so the roster is a jumble missmash of pieces that don't fit well as a whole. Some good pieces when combined certain ways, but there is at least 1 piece constantly causing issues leaving various size holes in the puzzle.

Push forward with Sexton - Need better shooters on the outside, questions about his ability to be a lead facilitator due to his AST%/USG% ratio being under 1 still, though improved up to .74 from .53 previously. Though defense should be improved by going back to the defacto PG and not being matched against larger opponents. This also moves Okoro to SG which improves his play defensively potentially but his shooting is a question mark. Leaves a big hole at SF, would likely be best to find someone that can shoot from outside and do some facilitating. PF/C would be Mobley/Allen, good defensive back-end, really lacking offensively from range, maybe even midrange depending on Mobley's shot.

Push forward with Garland - Need to find a decisive, confident, elite scorer to replace Sexton. Was a bad defender while guarding PGs already, not sure that changes much by the fact Sexton is gone, but Okoro moves down to SG in theory which improves backcourt size at least. SF still needs someone that can score and have size, likely with some good midrange to 3pt shooting. Most players that fill this role are guys like Butler/Kawhi/PG3/LeBron etc that are the Queen of the Prom. Mobley still likely the pick at #3 so the frontcourt will be solid defensively, but still questions about spacing and shooting.

I mean no matter what this roster has issues, most of which will be addressed with the #3 pick and how Mobley's game looks next to Allen. It's almost to a point where the Cavs would be better off trying to get more of a stretch 5 to pair with Mobley temporarily and moving off of Allen already, regardless of the path they go.

a) We may have the chance to draft a confident/elite scorer;
b) Who knows how Garland's game expands as a scorer if he had no choice but to take a lot more shots.

Mobley intrigues me at #3. With his ability as a roller, I can only imagine what Garland's assist rate could\should spike to if Mobley ends up with the Cavs.

Like any pg can't find a roller lol
So if they draft Mobley you think Allen is s/t out or what?

[Stillwater]

The only 2 correct options at #3 are Mobley and Green. Suggs, Barnes, Kuminga, etc aren't in that tier and Cade likely isn't there at #3, but if he is, then that's a different story.

Also the reason Garland is an easier fit is because he's a very good but not great NBA PG. He's not someone you actually build around, just someone you are happy is running point for you. Sexton is more of a piece you build around, but getting the right pieces around him, including coaching, is tough. For example Thibs is a great example of a coach that loves a lead scoring guard that attacks the basket extremely well, which Sexton does among the best in the NBA. With Thibs they could probably even improve on Sexton's facilitating using the pull that his drives create. I mean Thibs favorite PG he always goes back to is Derrick Rose after wall.

We won't know their respective ceilings for years (for instance, Garland is just hitting the age Steph Curry was when he entered the league); so, IMO it's more about their respective development curves.

To build around either player you have to project things neither has demonstrated.

But Garland is tracking very well as a young point ... and I think if you could put up a poll with Knicks fans, I suspect the majority would prefer to trade for Garland over Sexton if they were both being offered.

Garland isn't Steph please will people stop with this asinine comps, even based on the age he's entering the league. Difference is Steph shot 3's like most people shoot 2s. On top of that Steph was confident and decisive. If the shot was there he was taking it and he was confident he was making it. Like just stop, some players have it some don't. Garland has the tools, but he doesn't have the mentality and that plays just as big, if not bigger, factor in development.

This is what separates the men from the boys and why I cannot support retaining DG. Because if in fact he is confident and decisive then he must not want to be here or care about being a leader and for that I say he needs to walk the plank otherwise the ship is going down with a drunken driver check that he doesn't even want to drive, just ride along watching the world go by

[mcfly1204]

a) We may have the chance to draft a confident/elite scorer;
b) Who knows how Garland's game expands as a scorer if he had no choice but to take a lot more shots.

Mobley intrigues me at #3. With his ability as a roller, I can only imagine what Garland's assist rate could\should spike to if Mobley ends up with the Cavs.

Like any pg can't find a roller lol
So if they draft Mobley you think Allen is s/t out or what?

If we draft Mobley, I do not see Allen going anywhere initially. If anything, we start Love or Nance initially, and see how Mobley transitions. Long-term, it seems feasible to have Mobley playing PF next to Allen, but a lot depends on how well Mobley shoots it at the next level.

[Stillwater]

Mobley intrigues me at #3. With his ability as a roller, I can only imagine what Garland's assist rate could\should spike to if Mobley ends up with the Cavs.

Like any pg can't find a roller lol
So if they draft Mobley you think Allen is s/t out or what?

If we draft Mobley, I do not see Allen going anywhere initially. If anything, we start Love or Nance initially, and see how Mobley transitions. Long-term, it seems feasible to have Mobley playing PF next to Allen, but a lot depends on how well Mobley shoots it at the next level.

I think Mobley is already offensively advanced by comparison to Allen currently they just are not the same type of big on that side of the ball but very similar defensively already so all it would take is if someone offers him a max sheet, the Cavs let him walk if they are truly that high on Mobley.
I am pretty positive they are not as high on him because of Allen as they would be without him. But I like Mobley as the starting 4 as a rookie. They are not bringing the 3rd overall pick off the bench after playing rookies picked later in the draft 40 + a game all season every season.
I'm in the camp that wants a mid 1st to get Dosumnu or a late first early 2nd for Bones Hyland. Both have above average length for the position and esp Ayo can replace either guard in the rotation as needed making it much much easier to justify parting with either smaller guard or both of them if the Cavs take Green or Suggs.

[LivingLegend]

Apparently the Cavs have their eye on Alex Caruso in free agency according to Cleveland.com.

Would prefer McConnell but hey, Caruso wouldbt be bad either as a rotational PG.

[mcfly1204]

Unless we trade back up into the lottery, it seems unlikely that we will be drafting a starting caliber SF. With that in mind, any thoughts on how we can upgrade the position this summer? Wiggins is one name that has been thrown around, but given his salary, it does not seem like the direction we would want to go in if Love's contract is still on the books.