Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic

[infinite11285]

Lebron's and Lakers 2020 ring needs an asterisk. Not sayin he didnt deserve it, both teams didnt have to travel by car of plane and was living lavishly at the disney resorts. That one def was a stupid ring

So not traveling by bus or plane somehow gave LeBron, and only LeBron, a competitive advantage on the court? How do hotel accommodations contribute to a championship?

[WeSkrongDen]

Why is it the only one? 2012 Bosh missed most of the ECF and Lebron had to have a huge series to get past the Celtics and the Thunder team he beat may have been less experienced but it was just as talented. 2013 was a tight series and Lebron had 2 huge performances in consecutive elimination games to win. Giannis team just closed out the ECF without him

Wade one of the 50 best players in NBA history, a guy who carried a team to a title on his back. End of discussion. LeBron's MO to team up with one of the best players in the league.

in 2013 and 2012 he was not that player. End of discussion because your biased and don't want to discuss nuance. LeBron had to play at an extremely high level, similar to Giannis in these finals, in order to win every one of his rings.

LeBron's Heat finals were not as good as Giannis, not even particularly close actually and he still won 2 because his teammates were better. Last year statistically his Finals was close to Giannis but it was much easier for him playing next to a top 5 player in Davis. Wade was still amazing in 2012, stop making chit up, it hurts your credibility. In 2013, he started to decline but was still an all star caliber player and better than Holiday and Middleton. He fell off in 2014 and surprise! LeBron decided to bounce at that point.

Giannis did something LeBron has never done. He stayed loyal and won a chip without a superteam. Could Lebron have? He could have but he never has. He wanted to play it safe and form a superteam.

[mulamutti]

Wade one of the 50 best players in NBA history, a guy who carried a team to a title on his back. End of discussion. LeBron's MO to team up with one of the best players in the league.

This is only the end of the discussion if you don't actually look at context or want to present a disingenuous argument


Magic/Kareem - both top 50 players
Larry/McHale - both top 50 players
Jordan/Pippen - both top 50 players
Kobe/Shaq - both top 50 players
Robinson/Duncan - both top 50 players
Wade/Shaq - both top 50 players
Kobe/Gasol - both top 50 players


Why is is that LeBron is the only player who gets crucified for playing with other top tier talent? Wade was a shell of himself by 2013 and Bosh was never a top 10 player to begin with

It’s simple both Lebron and Durant NBA historically speaking are the biggest parity breakers and it’s not even close to close.

They are mercenaries. Nothing about either of their choosing is organic it’s literally my league stuff.

Do you know how long it’s been before all of this happened with colluding and buddy buddy team up? Since 08’ by my count. I do dock parity breakers when they do it on purpose.

The other duos were more or less made organically.
They were drafted Kobe, Pippen, Bird, Magic, Wade etc. or trades happened

Not how Lebron and Durant did it.

LeGM? Theres a reason for that moniker tag.

Durant’s legacy is really what? The weakest but best scoring mercenary ever.

Which sucks for him because as a player he’s box office.

He literally went to a 73-9 team. Cmon now.

Exactly.

[nikster]

I mean, after the Nets series, noone would call KD's performance "pathetic". In my view, he showed that he is clear cut the best player the league has and theres no shame in losing a team game if unfortunate injuries happen. Also, i stick by my point that the move Giannis pulled on Kyrie was borderline dirty; those guys are pros and know EXACTLY what they do when they step under an airborne player.

Its not so much Giannis as it is karma that the Bucks came out more or less as the only team without severe injuries. Thats why i hold Dirks title in higher regard - not only was his team much much weaker, he also had to beat legit superteams at their full force. The attempts to spin the narrative ("advanced statistics say otherwise!") are just sad imho.

KD arguably wasnt even better than Giannis in their series, and this Finals performances dwarves any series KD has had

Thats your opinion and youre entitled to it. Its not a fact though, i'd label it as recency bias and probably a negative bias towards KD that clouds your judgement.

"Giannis might have had a better series" "KD showed he is the clear cut best player in the league". One of those comments shows a lot more bias.

And, yes, an all time great finals series tends to elevate the standing of players. Who would have thought

[trickshot]

Lebron's and Lakers 2020 ring needs an asterisk. Not sayin he didnt deserve it, both teams didnt have to travel by car of plane and was living lavishly at the disney resorts. That one def was a stupid ring

Nah,
-Lakers lost homecourt advantage they would have had across 4 different series.
-were the only contender to have a starter opt out.
- it said a lot about the bubble that the teams known by their leadership and disciplined preparations were the ones who excelled while the ones who were known for strippers and chicken wings faltered.
- also said a lot that when everyone got to play on equal footing it would be Lebron and the Lakers to come out on top.

Last year they were the best team period. It's been a year already, time to let it go. We have a new champion.

[mulamutti]

Wade one of the 50 best players in NBA history, a guy who carried a team to a title on his back. End of discussion. LeBron's MO to team up with one of the best players in the league.

This is only the end of the discussion if you don't actually look at context or want to present a disingenuous argument


Magic/Kareem - both top 50 players
Larry/McHale - both top 50 players
Jordan/Pippen - both top 50 players
Kobe/Shaq - both top 50 players
Robinson/Duncan - both top 50 players
Wade/Shaq - both top 50 players
Kobe/Gasol - both top 50 players


Why is is that LeBron is the only player who gets crucified for playing with other top tier talent? Wade was a shell of himself by 2013 and Bosh was never a top 10 player to begin with

the attempts to discredit Wade and Bosh, Love and Kyrie are beyond ridiculous.

As for your question: You dont think it makes a difference wether a generational talent actually develops a rookie into an all star, or just buys him? Pippen didnt come out of nowhere. Kobe and Shaq grew together. Duncan helped MAKING Tony Parker, Manu into the players they became.

Meanwhile, LeBron joined Wade who won a ring by himself before, and Bosh who was considered a top 10 player easily. It does not matter that - probably because he played next to LeBron - his production suffered. By the time they came together, all three were absolute superstars and franchise players.

Exactly. Pippen grew with Jordan to be a top 50 player. Lebron and Durant just curated or joined their super team. That's similar to Jordan losing for a few years in the playoffs, and then just recruiting Barkley and Malone over poker. Jordan defeted his rivals. Lebron curated an easy(ier) path to a championship. and Durant is the worst offender who just joined a championship team, who didn't even need him to contend.

[kg01]

The Nets took the Bucks to 7 with a hobbled Harden playing at 25% and no Kyrie. It's clear to everyone with a brain that they would have won with a healthy roster. And of course it's a Raptors fan defending an injury ring.

Wait, what? Raptors fan? Who? How?

And we don't know what the Nets would've done fully healthy. We can only suppose.

Ah my bad, thought I was quoting another post.

And yes, we can only guess what would have happened. But some guesses are more certain than others. The Nets lost an MVP caliber player and an All-Star. And still took the eventual champs to 7. Seems clear as day what would have happened had all 3 been healthy.

And yes, health is part of the game. Every year there are injuries to key players. I agree and I don't like assigning asterisks for that reason. It's dumb in most cases. But what happened this year was a crazy outlier. Harden was an ironman his entire career, up until this year which was riddled with freak injuries.

I'm not sure if I can recover from being called a raptor fan. (Just kidding, Canada.)

I hear what you're saying. But I kinda think it sounds like when people see a team score 80 points then assume, adding a guy that scores 20 points automatically means they would've scored 100 points. It doesn't work that way.

Who knows if the Nets, fully healthy, would've played with the same urgency. Who knows if they would've been able to play consistently well defensively. Rebound well, etc.

We just don't know. Which is why I refuse to give them 'credit' for it by knocking the Bucks.

[LesGrossman]

This is only the end of the discussion if you don't actually look at context or want to present a disingenuous argument


Magic/Kareem - both top 50 players
Larry/McHale - both top 50 players
Jordan/Pippen - both top 50 players
Kobe/Shaq - both top 50 players
Robinson/Duncan - both top 50 players
Wade/Shaq - both top 50 players
Kobe/Gasol - both top 50 players


Why is is that LeBron is the only player who gets crucified for playing with other top tier talent? Wade was a shell of himself by 2013 and Bosh was never a top 10 player to begin with

the attempts to discredit Wade and Bosh, Love and Kyrie are beyond ridiculous.

As for your question: You dont think it makes a difference wether a generational talent actually develops a rookie into an all star, or just buys him? Pippen didnt come out of nowhere. Kobe and Shaq grew together. Duncan helped MAKING Tony Parker, Manu into the players they became.

Meanwhile, LeBron joined Wade who won a ring by himself before, and Bosh who was considered a top 10 player easily. It does not matter that - probably because he played next to LeBron - his production suffered. By the time they came together, all three were absolute superstars and franchise players.

...
Lebron curated an easy(ier) path to a championship. and Durant is the worst offender who just joined a championship team, who didn't even need him to contend.

Thats a very interesting statement with which i strongly disagree but i think it justifies its own thread.

[Bornstellar]

Wade one of the 50 best players in NBA history, a guy who carried a team to a title on his back. End of discussion. LeBron's MO to team up with one of the best players in the league.

This is only the end of the discussion if you don't actually look at context or want to present a disingenuous argument


Magic/Kareem - both top 50 players
Larry/McHale - both top 50 players
Jordan/Pippen - both top 50 players
Kobe/Shaq - both top 50 players
Robinson/Duncan - both top 50 players
Wade/Shaq - both top 50 players
Kobe/Gasol - both top 50 players


Why is is that LeBron is the only player who gets crucified for playing with other top tier talent? Wade was a shell of himself by 2013 and Bosh was never a top 10 player to begin with

the attempts to discredit Wade and Bosh, Love and Kyrie are beyond ridiculous.

As for your question: You dont think it makes a difference wether a generational talent actually develops a rookie into an all star, or just buys him? Pippen didnt come out of nowhere. Kobe and Shaq grew together. Duncan helped MAKING Tony Parker, Manu into the players they became.

Meanwhile, LeBron joined Wade who won a ring by himself before, and Bosh who was considered a top 10 player easily. It does not matter that - probably because he played next to LeBron - his production suffered. By the time they came together, all three were absolute superstars and franchise players.

No, I don't. LeBron was never going to make Mo Williams into a championship level player. And no, I don't think Duncan MADE Tony Parker into anything, nor do I think he made Manu into a better player either. They improved because they had the drive and the talent. Manu was already an international superstar before he came to SA. Sure, them growing and playing together was part of it, but let's not act like TP/Manu are only good players because Tim Duncan made them into good players.

So basically a player trying to put himself in a position to win rings is bad, but a GM doing it is good. Y'all are ridiculous on how you want titles to not be "bought" or whatever, and this is coming from a Spurs fans. Y'all are just mad that a player took his destiny into his own hands rather than letting some dude in a suit do it for him. And then you all sit here on RealGM claiming X player sucks because he didn't win a ring or didn't win multiple rings or whatever, and you wonder why players feel the need to dictate their own futures? Lmao

Again, your post ignores context. Not everything is black and white. Wade won a title with Shaq in 2006. LeBron joined him 5 years later after he already started having issues and he declined swiftly after 2012. And sorry, but no, Bosh was never a "superstar" player, ever

[shi-woo]

Why is it the only one? 2012 Bosh missed most of the ECF and Lebron had to have a huge series to get past the Celtics and the Thunder team he beat may have been less experienced but it was just as talented. 2013 was a tight series and Lebron had 2 huge performances in consecutive elimination games to win. Giannis team just closed out the ECF without him

Wade one of the 50 best players in NBA history, a guy who carried a team to a title on his back. End of discussion. LeBron's MO to team up with one of the best players in the league.

This is only the end of the discussion if you don't actually look at context or want to present a disingenuous argument


Magic/Kareem - both top 50 players
Larry/McHale - both top 50 players
Jordan/Pippen - both top 50 players
Kobe/Shaq - both top 50 players
Robinson/Duncan - both top 50 players
Wade/Shaq - both top 50 players
Kobe/Gasol - both top 50 players


Why is is that LeBron is the only player who gets crucified for playing with other top tier talent? Wade was a shell of himself by 2013 and Bosh was never a top 10 player to begin with

Because all of those guys became team mates through organic means, not by collusion and intentional team building to break the competative balance of the league?

None of those guys are viewed as mercenaries for hire. Journeyman used to be a term used for borderline scrubs and roleplayers, now it's used for arguable the best player in the game.

Teams had to give stuff up to get Shaq to MIA. Gasol to LA. KG to BOS. Teams had to draft and make great trades to for nucleus's like Bird/McHale and Jordan/Pippen.

They didn't sit down and form those teams over a class of wine and dinner 3 years before hand

[bkseven]

This is only the end of the discussion if you don't actually look at context or want to present a disingenuous argument


Magic/Kareem - both top 50 players
Larry/McHale - both top 50 players
Jordan/Pippen - both top 50 players
Kobe/Shaq - both top 50 players
Robinson/Duncan - both top 50 players
Wade/Shaq - both top 50 players
Kobe/Gasol - both top 50 players


Why is is that LeBron is the only player who gets crucified for playing with other top tier talent? Wade was a shell of himself by 2013 and Bosh was never a top 10 player to begin with

the attempts to discredit Wade and Bosh, Love and Kyrie are beyond ridiculous.

As for your question: You dont think it makes a difference wether a generational talent actually develops a rookie into an all star, or just buys him? Pippen didnt come out of nowhere. Kobe and Shaq grew together. Duncan helped MAKING Tony Parker, Manu into the players they became.

Meanwhile, LeBron joined Wade who won a ring by himself before, and Bosh who was considered a top 10 player easily. It does not matter that - probably because he played next to LeBron - his production suffered. By the time they came together, all three were absolute superstars and franchise players.

No, I don't. LeBron was never going to make Mo Williams into a championship level player. And no, I don't think Duncan MADE Tony Parker into anything, nor do I think he made Manu into a better player either. They improved because they had the drive and the talent. Manu was already an international superstar before he came to SA

So basically a player trying to put himself in a position to win rings is bad, but a GM doing it is good. Y'all are ridiculous on how you want titles to not be "bought" or whatever, and this is coming from a Spurs fans. Y'all are just mad that a player took his destiny into his own hands rather than letting some dude in a suit do it for him. And then you all sit here on RealGM claiming X player sucks because he didn't win a ring or didn't win multiple rings or whatever, and you wonder why players feel the need to dictate their own futures? Lmao

GMs run the team.. LeGM and KD do not. I don't think they are claiming that these players suck. They're just saying these guys took the easy way out.

The list you have above are just duos. How many "top 50 players" did Bron and KD have?

[Bornstellar]

Wade one of the 50 best players in NBA history, a guy who carried a team to a title on his back. End of discussion. LeBron's MO to team up with one of the best players in the league.

This is only the end of the discussion if you don't actually look at context or want to present a disingenuous argument


Magic/Kareem - both top 50 players
Larry/McHale - both top 50 players
Jordan/Pippen - both top 50 players
Kobe/Shaq - both top 50 players
Robinson/Duncan - both top 50 players
Wade/Shaq - both top 50 players
Kobe/Gasol - both top 50 players


Why is is that LeBron is the only player who gets crucified for playing with other top tier talent? Wade was a shell of himself by 2013 and Bosh was never a top 10 player to begin with

Because all of those guys became team mates through organic means, not by collusion and intentional team building to break the competative balance of the league?

None of those guys are viewed as mercenaries for hire. Journeyman used to be a term used for borderline scrubs and roleplayers, now it's used for arguable the best player in the game.

Teams had to give stuff up to get Shaq to MIA. Gasol to LA. KG to BOS. Teams had to draft and make great trades to for nucleus's like Bird/McHale and Jordan/Pippen.

They didn't sit down and form those teams over a class of wine and dinner 3 years before hand

And why do you think a player wanting to dictate his own future is somehow bad but a GM doing the same thing is good? Really trying to understand the real thinking behind this. Again, why is a player taking his destiny in his own hands bad but you all love when a GM does it?

[thelead]

Yeah he didn't have two other all-stars on his... er... wait a minute... It wasn't a super-team sure.. but it wasn't a bunch of scrubs either.

Congrats to Bucks and Buck Fans! What a wonderful year for you and your team.

Please tell me the last year Jrue was an all star?

Jrue has been an all-star, but he's also been "Mike Conley'd" in the west multiple years where he would have been an All-star in the east easily.

The point is... not a bunch of scrubs.

I just said he hasn't been an all-star since 2013 not that he was a scrub. I was just stating a fact that he hasn't been an all-star in nearly a decade now.

[Bornstellar]

the attempts to discredit Wade and Bosh, Love and Kyrie are beyond ridiculous.

As for your question: You dont think it makes a difference wether a generational talent actually develops a rookie into an all star, or just buys him? Pippen didnt come out of nowhere. Kobe and Shaq grew together. Duncan helped MAKING Tony Parker, Manu into the players they became.

Meanwhile, LeBron joined Wade who won a ring by himself before, and Bosh who was considered a top 10 player easily. It does not matter that - probably because he played next to LeBron - his production suffered. By the time they came together, all three were absolute superstars and franchise players.

No, I don't. LeBron was never going to make Mo Williams into a championship level player. And no, I don't think Duncan MADE Tony Parker into anything, nor do I think he made Manu into a better player either. They improved because they had the drive and the talent. Manu was already an international superstar before he came to SA

So basically a player trying to put himself in a position to win rings is bad, but a GM doing it is good. Y'all are ridiculous on how you want titles to not be "bought" or whatever, and this is coming from a Spurs fans. Y'all are just mad that a player took his destiny into his own hands rather than letting some dude in a suit do it for him. And then you all sit here on RealGM claiming X player sucks because he didn't win a ring or didn't win multiple rings or whatever, and you wonder why players feel the need to dictate their own futures? Lmao

GMs run the team.. LeGM and KD do not. I don't think they are claiming that these players suck. They're just saying these guys took the easy way out.

The list you have above are just duos. How many "top 50 players" did Bron and KD have?

Clearly "LeGM" does what he wants, and you all hate that a player has so much power to dictate his own circumstances. That's fine, just be real about it instead of this fake "organically built" BS.

RealGM never ceases to amaze me. Every day someone is clamoring about how so and so needs to request a trade or leave X team because they're wasting his prime, yet when said player does it, everyone loses their mind.

[Woodsanity]

Giannis rings>>>> Both of KD's cupcake rings thats for sure.

I would put his win over all of Lebron's rings aside from the Cavs one too. Kevin Love was never that great and Kyrie is an excellent scorer but deficient in every other aspect.

[Ritzo]

It seems like Europian superstars are more loyal to their than the Americans, guys like Dirk and Giannis did it the right way. I hope the same goes to Jokic and Luka.

Meanwhile, Zion's parents already asking for a trade after 2 seasons with his team. Ridiculous!

[UcanUwill]

The only reason he won was that other stars got injured.

GTFOH man. Only reason KD won the chip he joined a team who won 73 games & choked 3-1 lead in Finals.

Yes, but if Brooklyn are healthy, they would have won without a doubt. I mean its great non superteam won, I am not taking anything from Giannis, I am just saying non Superteam way is not optimal way in this league anymore, players will keep building superteams and superteams will get most of the titles.

[WeSkrongDen]

This is only the end of the discussion if you don't actually look at context or want to present a disingenuous argument


Magic/Kareem - both top 50 players
Larry/McHale - both top 50 players
Jordan/Pippen - both top 50 players
Kobe/Shaq - both top 50 players
Robinson/Duncan - both top 50 players
Wade/Shaq - both top 50 players
Kobe/Gasol - both top 50 players


Why is is that LeBron is the only player who gets crucified for playing with other top tier talent? Wade was a shell of himself by 2013 and Bosh was never a top 10 player to begin with

the attempts to discredit Wade and Bosh, Love and Kyrie are beyond ridiculous.

As for your question: You dont think it makes a difference wether a generational talent actually develops a rookie into an all star, or just buys him? Pippen didnt come out of nowhere. Kobe and Shaq grew together. Duncan helped MAKING Tony Parker, Manu into the players they became.

Meanwhile, LeBron joined Wade who won a ring by himself before, and Bosh who was considered a top 10 player easily. It does not matter that - probably because he played next to LeBron - his production suffered. By the time they came together, all three were absolute superstars and franchise players.

No, I don't. LeBron was never going to make Mo Williams into a championship level player. And no, I don't think Duncan MADE Tony Parker into anything, nor do I think he made Manu into a better player either. They improved because they had the drive and the talent. Manu was already an international superstar before he came to SA. Sure, them growing and playing together was part of it, but let's not act like TP/Manu are only good players because Tim Duncan made them into good players.

So basically a player trying to put himself in a position to win rings is bad, but a GM doing it is good. Y'all are ridiculous on how you want titles to not be "bought" or whatever, and this is coming from a Spurs fans. Y'all are just mad that a player took his destiny into his own hands rather than letting some dude in a suit do it for him. And then you all sit here on RealGM claiming X player sucks because he didn't win a ring or didn't win multiple rings or whatever, and you wonder why players feel the need to dictate their own futures? Lmao

Again, your post ignores context. Not everything is black and white. Wade won a title with Shaq in 2006. LeBron joined him 5 years later after he already started having issues and he declined swiftly after 2012. And sorry, but no, Bosh was never a "superstar" player, ever

You just sound like a huge player simp lol. Most fans are fans of teams from small markets. Why would we want a league where players show no loyalty and decide to team up on their own? Our markets are never going to be the destination of choice so we're always going to be screwed over in that sense. You must have a very low IQ if you support that sort of league and don't live in one of the small handful of destination cities.

It's healthier for the league and just more fun to watch organic teams built by GMs. People actually really enjoyed that Warriors team before they got KD. They were a great team but you still at least had a chance to beat them. Once they got KD, it was game over. There was no way to possibly compete with that team. A juggernaut like that could never be built without a mercenary team of the best players leaving in free agency. Same with the Nets, they are unbeatable if healthy.

[UcanUwill]

Giannis rings>>>> Both of KD's cupcake rings thats for sure.

I would put his win over all of Lebron's rings aside from the Cavs one too. Kevin Love was never that great and Kyrie is an excellent scorer but deficient in every other aspect.

LeBron sure won with superteams, but he also won without it, like you are saying 2016 CAVS are far from Superteam, take LeBron out and that team and its prime Tankopalooza

[bkseven]

No, I don't. LeBron was never going to make Mo Williams into a championship level player. And no, I don't think Duncan MADE Tony Parker into anything, nor do I think he made Manu into a better player either. They improved because they had the drive and the talent. Manu was already an international superstar before he came to SA

So basically a player trying to put himself in a position to win rings is bad, but a GM doing it is good. Y'all are ridiculous on how you want titles to not be "bought" or whatever, and this is coming from a Spurs fans. Y'all are just mad that a player took his destiny into his own hands rather than letting some dude in a suit do it for him. And then you all sit here on RealGM claiming X player sucks because he didn't win a ring or didn't win multiple rings or whatever, and you wonder why players feel the need to dictate their own futures? Lmao

GMs run the team.. LeGM and KD do not. I don't think they are claiming that these players suck. They're just saying these guys took the easy way out.

The list you have above are just duos. How many "top 50 players" did Bron and KD have?

Clearly "LeGM" does what he wants, and you all hate that a player has so much power to dictate his own circumstances. That's fine, just be real about it instead of this fake "organically built" BS.

RealGM never ceases to amaze me. Every day someone is clamoring about how so and so needs to request a trade or leave X team because they're wasting his prime, yet when said player does it, everyone loses their mind.

We are real about it, so don't know your point.

Never said any thing like that. Go ahead and combine statements from two different people.