2021 Free Agency & Off-season

[Wizop]

Is Levert going to 6th man a demotion? He is still playing 30 minutes a night.

I have no problem with the Red Auerbach system of bringing a starter off the bench at the 6 minute mark provided the coaches have explained the plan to the team so no egos are bruised. however, if the problem is defending small, speedy point guards, I see that as a need for situational substitutions rather than an every day rotation change.

I'm with Scoot though in thinking the real problem with the trade is the long term cap plan. I want to keep TJ. I'm willing to let Doug go and to trade Aaron. I'm inclined to keep Lamp so that his expiring money can go to Warren in a year.

I'd write more but my power just went out and I'm on the UPS. I need to shut down.

[Tom White]

So dump Aaron and draft a top defender. I'm not for trading or demoting Brogdon or LeVert.

I guess you could say I'm two-thirds the way with you on this.

I'd darn near give away A. Holiday.

Honestly I don't feel like I've seen enough of LeVert to make any kind of judgement on him. Anything I might say about LeVert would be unfair just because of a lack of knowledge about him.

Brogdon is a different case, for me. He is not who I want running the offense on this team. Would he be better as a 2-guard? Yeah, maybe. But he is not the creative type of point guard that I envision when thinking of the position, nor is he the defender needed at that position. I'm not even sure he is the defender I want at the 2-guard position.

[Scoot McGroot]

Murray Levert
Brogdon Sumner
Warren Holiday
Turner Brissett
Sabonis Goga


That would be our 10 deep with about 11M? salary left.

With 5 roster spots to fill. That’s essentially 5 vet minimum guys. Jakarr Sampson’s, at best.


But also, what’s your follow up deal for Levert? He’s probably likely to want a deal ASAP, too. He just got a chance to start reliably, and played pretty decent. Can’t imagine he’ll like a demotion. And guys nowadays view benching as demoted. Even if they get starters minutes.

[Scoot McGroot]

"So dump Aaron and draft a top defender. I'm not for trading or demoting Brogdon or LeVert."

Is Levert going to 6th man a demotion? He is still playing 30 minutes a night and likely on the floor with Murray and Brogdon to close out games. Your logic seems flawed.

Yes. Players see it as a demotion. Core of their career players do. Career role players do not, necessarily. But, say he plays 6th man minutes of 28-32 a night (which is less than a starter), who finishes games? Who is leaned on and given offensive and defensive freedom?

These guys would likely see it as a demotion. It is, by and large and by definition, a lesser role.

[Wizop]

I guess you could say I'm two-thirds the way with you on this.

Sabonis is under contract for 3 more years. Everyone else is 1 year or 2. I suppose I need to exclude Warren and maybe TJ as both should be extended. Brogdon, LeVert, and Myles are all 2 year guys. so after this draft and next, they'll be in their last year. It sure looks like this draft is going to give us a guard/wing and they say we will be looking for one ready to get minutes as a rookie. if so, I think we can be patient for a year and see where we are then.

[Scoot McGroot]

I guess you could say I'm two-thirds the way with you on this.

Sabonis is under contract for 3 more years. Everyone else is 1 year or 2. I suppose I need to exclude Warren and maybe TJ as both should be extended. Brogdon, LeVert, and Myles are all 2 year guys. so after this draft and next, they'll be in their last year. It sure looks like this draft is going to give us a guard/wing and they say we will be looking for one ready to get minutes as a rookie. if so, I think we can be patient for a year and see where we are then.

In fairness to the opposing arguments, the trade value on Myles/Brogdon/Levert would be MUCH higher now, with 2 years remaining, as opposed to next year when they all have 1 year remaining.

However, all those guys (as well as Warren) are extension eligible this offseason. Brogdon can extend as of July 6, Turner is extension eligible already, and Caris will be extension eligible on August 26th. They would each only be able to extend on a new deal with no more than a 20% raise over their last season currently under contract with 8% raises annually. Warren could take on up to 4 years, while Turner, Brogdon, and Levert could all take on only 3 additional years.

I don’t think any extensions are likely. There’s a VERY SMALL chance that Warren could look to lock up some guaranteed years after seeing Oladipo risk it, and his associated injury history. The other guys would all likely think they’re due a bigger raise?

[Tom White]

In fairness to the opposing arguments, the trade value on Myles/Brogdon/Levert would be MUCH higher now, with 2 years remaining, as opposed to next year when they all have 1 year remaining.

You may have a point there. If we are looking to trade any of them, the receiving team would want to know they have some good amount of time with their investments.

However, all those guys (as well as Warren) are extension eligible this offseason. Brogdon can extend as of July 6, Turner is extension eligible already, and Caris will be extension eligible on August 26th.

---snip---

I don’t think any extensions are likely. There’s a VERY SMALL chance that Warren could look to lock up some guaranteed years after seeing Oladipo risk it, and his associated injury history. The other guys would all likely think they’re due a bigger raise?

I think this is the first mention I've seen talking about the guys who are now eligible for extensions. Isn't that a bit odd?
It seems to me in the past the team has addressed, in some way, extensions being worked on for eligible players. Could this be because the team has been more focused on putting together the coaching staff? Or is the writing on the wall for at least some of these guys?

[Wizop]

In fairness to the opposing arguments, the trade value on Myles/Brogdon/Levert would be MUCH higher now, with 2 years remaining, as opposed to next year when they all have 1 year remaining.

I'll accept your opinion. however, expiring contracts can be attractive.

[Helsbyte]

I know everyone is crunching the numbers for future seasons. How about we operate under the agreement of putting the best team on the floor this season. We have very moveable pieces if we needed to create future money. I would like Warren to stay healthy for a season before I offer a bigger deal, if he can't then let him expire. He does the team no good in street clothes during games.

we can reassess the team during and at the end of the season for adjustments.

[Wizop]

we can reassess the team during and at the end of the season for adjustments.

that's exactly what I want to do and by that I mean I don't want to do anything big before the season except for the draft and keeping TJ. if we keep Doug or lose Aaron or Lamb, that's okay too but I want to see the starting five play for Carlisle before casting any of them away - unless we get the proverbial offer we can't refuse. I'll listen to offers but I'm not shopping any of the starters.

[Scoot McGroot]

In fairness to the opposing arguments, the trade value on Myles/Brogdon/Levert would be MUCH higher now, with 2 years remaining, as opposed to next year when they all have 1 year remaining.

I'll accept your opinion. however, expiring contracts can be attractive.

Yes. For expiring and the players leaving. You would have a hard time also netting a premium for it being a good player…since they’re expiring. The value doesn’t really stack. Rentals go for less.

[Scoot McGroot]

I know everyone is crunching the numbers for future seasons. How about we operate under the agreement of putting the best team on the floor this season. We have very moveable pieces if we needed to create future money. I would like Warren to stay healthy for a season before I offer a bigger deal, if he can't then let him expire. He does the team no good in street clothes during games.

we can reassess the team during and at the end of the season for adjustments.

We have to crunch the numbers for future seasons. Say Levert is injured and Warren has a huge year. Now we have to pay a lot to dump Levert for pure cap space to try and keep a key player. Our deals and moves where we’ve acted solely for this year have also been the ones that hamstring issues for years or set us back much further than we could afford.

[Wizop]

Listened to Setting the Pace podcast discussing trades. I didn't like most if not all of their ideas but they did say something I found interesting. many here have argued for a consolidation trade involving two starters. one of the podcasters said we need to do a consolidation trade on the second unit. now that I could get on board with. letting Doug walk may have the same effect but some combination of Aaron, Justin, and Lamb for one player might be a win now move.

[Scoot McGroot]

Listened to Setting the Pace podcast discussing trades. I didn't like most if not all of their ideas but they did say something I found interesting. many here have argued for a consolidation trade involving two starters. on of the podcasters said we need to do a consolidation trade on the second unit. now that I could get on board with. letting Doug walk may have the same effect but some combination of Aaron, Justin, and Lamb for one player might be a win now move.

We’ve discussed mostly an Aaron/Lamb consolidation around here, from what I’ve seen.

[Tom White]

We’ve discussed mostly an Aaron/Lamb consolidation around here, from what I’ve seen.

The questions are who would be interested in those two, and for what kind of return?
Is their combined value worth any sort of decent draft pick? I really don't know what other teams might think of them.

[Scoot McGroot]

We’ve discussed mostly an Aaron/Lamb consolidation around here, from what I’ve seen.

The questions are who would be interested in those two, and for what kind of return?
Is their combined value worth any sort of decent draft pick? I really don't know what other teams might think of them.

I think a lot of teams would be interested in swaps for positional balance, or still having interest in buying low on Aaron. If we were willing to trade down from 13 a little, well, the possibilities open up a ton more.

[Wizop]

Listened to Setting the Pace podcast discussing trades. I didn't like most if not all of their ideas but they did say something I found interesting. many here have argued for a consolidation trade involving two starters. one of the podcasters said we need to do a consolidation trade on the second unit. now that I could get on board with. letting Doug walk may have the same effect but some combination of Aaron, Justin, and Lamb for one player might be a win now move.

We’ve discussed mostly an Aaron/Lamb consolidation around here, from what I’ve seen.

that's probably true for you, but there have definitely been those wanting to trade two of Brogdon, LeVert, or a Turbonis for a max contract guy. I know I've written more than once that I don't see the need for a consolidation trade of starters. using the same terminology for a second unit trade makes a lot more sense to me.

[Pacers Forever]

I guess our concern going forward is how do we get past a Milwaukee team that swept us this year scoring no less than 130 against us. Will TJ Warren coming back be the person tasked with guarding Giannis since nobody on the roster stopped him this year ? Matter of fact looking at the box scores Forbes and Portis tore us up and maybe they go elsewhere. Not sure we can find a free agent to put us past Milwaukee

[Wizop]

I guess our concern going forward is how do we get past a Milwaukee team

one step at a time. step one could just be to finish higher than the play-in. Milwaukee, Philly, Nets, Celtics, Hawks, Raptors, Knicks, Wizards, Hornets ... we need to get above three of this 9.

[Tom White]

I guess our concern going forward is how do we get past a Milwaukee team that swept us this year scoring no less than 130 against us. Will TJ Warren coming back be the person tasked with guarding Giannis since nobody on the roster stopped him this year ? Matter of fact looking at the box scores Forbes and Portis tore us up and maybe they go elsewhere. Not sure we can find a free agent to put us past Milwaukee

Before we worry about that, there are a number of teams better than us we should worry about. I mean a NUMBER of teams.