The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition

[Mos_Heat]

If the Wizards and Lakers are discussing the framework for a deal, it's not impossible. Hope it doesn't happen

Well, they should read CBA then

Or maybe you should? Or just read the 3 sentence report of what they're discussing

Yep, my bad. Turns out you can combine multiple free agents in one s&t deal.

Still would be terrible, lol

[LikeABosh]

Well, they should read CBA then

Or maybe you should? Or just read the 3 sentence report of what they're discussing

Yep, my bad. Turns out you can combine multiple free agents in one s&t deal.

Still would be terrible, lol

Indeed. Hope it doesn't happen

[dcstanley]

I still want Lowry on this team.. even if it means getting hard-capped. CP3 is ideal as well but a total pipedream.

[Mos_Heat]

Lowry is almost impossible cuz of hard cap issue. What i don't get is why are they targetting Westbrook, not someone like Brogdan, FVV or Kemba even? Yes, it would cost more. But trading for Westbrook is a definition of ALL IN move

[nzahir]

Lowry is almost impossible cuz of hard cap issue. What i don't get is why are they targetting Westbrook, not someone like Brogdan, FVV or Kemba even? Yes, it would cost more. But trading for Westbrook is a definition of ALL IN move

Lowry is still possible

But every dollar counts with hard cap

3/57 deal?

17, 19, 21. Is that possible?

I’d prefer Brogdon or FVV as well if possible

Kemba...meh

Knees worry me and undersized for playoffs

Russ kills our spacing, worse on D

What do we gain?

Someone who can maybe help keep us afloat for when Bron sits?

That’s only like 5-10 min in higher stake playoff games

Lowry should be the main target still

[TroubleS0me]

lol here comes the Giannis comparison/hype vs LBJ

[falcolombardi]

lol here comes the Giannis comparison/hype vs LBJ

i dont mind that lol, comparisions are fun (that is why de have this board)

the issue is that most people will go with "giannis is a real ring cause small market and not a super team so giannis better like magic or jordan"

god forbids someone ever brings up magic or jordan or kobe didnt need to team up in a bit market cause they were drafted by those already and got their superteams without leaving

[thebigbird]

lol here comes the Giannis comparison/hype vs LBJ

They’ll go away soon enough just like the Kawhi ones. I like how in 2018 after LeBron swept the 59 win Raptors and beat the 55 win #1 defense Celtics, all we heard was how trash the East was. Giannis faces the 5 seed Hawks in the ECF and… crickets.

[nzahir]

If we really go after Russ and send THT, we better get back Gafford or at least Garrison Matthews

We would have to move THT regardless though as he wouldn’t fit

Say we get Gafford and Russ for Kuz, Dennis and THT sign and trade and some 2nds

Russ, Pope, Lebron, AD, Gasol/Stretch 5 like Kelly O (mle)
AC, Wes?, ?, Kieff? Gafford

Or sign a 3 point guy off the bench with mle?

Mills?
Green?
OPJ maybe? Worth way more if healthy, but injury risk

Meh

I hope Rob doesn’t screw us here

[McBubbles]

I will be so upset if the Lakers trade for Westbrook. Would do 3 things:

1. Truly eliminate the Lakers from championship contention with the LeBron + AD core, however long that lasts.

2. Make LeBron look worse for not winning a championship with a "former MVP" despite that player being a washed, horrible fit.

3. Would indicate to me that no one on the Lakers organisation from the star players to the coach to the front office have absolutely any **** clue what they're doing (more so than the Drummond signing already somewhat indicated) and prove in my mind that 2020 was a fluke.

[SeniorWalker]

lol here comes the Giannis comparison/hype vs LBJ

They’ll go away soon enough just like the Kawhi ones. I like how in 2018 after LeBron swept the 59 win Raptors and beat the 55 win #1 defense Celtics, all we heard was how trash the East was. Giannis faces the 5 seed Hawks in the ECF and… crickets.

Well, Giannis isn't in the g.o.a.t. discussion, is he?

LeBron + Love and role players is enough to steamroll an east with literally not one superstar opponent. Giannis has literally just now proved himself. You have to have those moments before people expect it from you.

If Giannis were in the g.o.a.t. conversation he would faced the same level of scrutiny and nitpicking. It's how it works. It's a compliment to LeBron that people pick him apart against MJ and Kareem. It's shows he belongs in the discussion.

[falcolombardi]

lol here comes the Giannis comparison/hype vs LBJ

They’ll go away soon enough just like the Kawhi ones. I like how in 2018 after LeBron swept the 59 win Raptors and beat the 55 win #1 defense Celtics, all we heard was how trash the East was. Giannis faces the 5 seed Hawks in the ECF and… crickets.

Well, Giannis isn't in the g.o.a.t. discussion, is he?

LeBron + Love and role players is enough to steamroll an east with literally not one superstar opponent. Giannis has literally just now proved himself. You have to have those moments before people expect it from you.

If Giannis were in the g.o.a.t. conversation he would faced the same level of scrutiny and nitpicking. It's how it works. It's a compliment to LeBron that people pick him apart against MJ and Kareem. It's shows he belongs in the discussion.

depending on criteria it can be argued lebron is held to. -higher- criteria than even jordan

Jordan and other all time greats dont get nitpicked to quite the same extent and minutia lebron is in some regards and if someone does it gets shut down cause 6-0 or "they didnt collude" lol

for example, when jordan has a bad efficiency series is no big deal cause he still scored a ton (true) or if he barely wins against a underdog is fine because he still won. which is a luxury not given to lebron the same way

[homecourtloss]

lol here comes the Giannis comparison/hype vs LBJ

They’ll go away soon enough just like the Kawhi ones. I like how in 2018 after LeBron swept the 59 win Raptors and beat the 55 win #1 defense Celtics, all we heard was how trash the East was. Giannis faces the 5 seed Hawks in the ECF and… crickets.

Bucks went 2-0 vs. the Hawks without him and also...crickets. Meanwhile, the entire GB is one sUpErTeAm thread after another

[homecourtloss]

lol here comes the Giannis comparison/hype vs LBJ

They’ll go away soon enough just like the Kawhi ones. I like how in 2018 after LeBron swept the 59 win Raptors and beat the 55 win #1 defense Celtics, all we heard was how trash the East was. Giannis faces the 5 seed Hawks in the ECF and… crickets.

Well, Giannis isn't in the g.o.a.t. discussion, is he?

LeBron + Love and role players is enough to steamroll an east with literally not one superstar opponent. Giannis has literally just now proved himself. You have to have those moments before people expect it from you.

If Giannis were in the g.o.a.t. conversation he would faced the same level of scrutiny and nitpicking. It's how it works. It's a compliment to LeBron that people pick him apart against MJ and Kareem. It's shows he belongs in the discussion.

You’re looking at a name and calling him a star. Love was a role player himself in 2018, and not above the level of “role players.” See 2018 BPM, VORP, RPM/RAPM, 538, LEBRON, anything that puts him at anything above a role player.

2018 playoffs Love:
—15/10 on 51.1% TS
—BPM of -.9
—.80 points per possession on 4.2 post ups per game (6th most posts ups per game in the playoffs, 31st percentile on these post ups so pretty much useless across the board)
—57% shooting at the rim

Middleton, Jrue, Portis, and Lopez were all better than 2018 playoffs Love (BPM, 538, etc.) who got plenty of post ups and chances to prove himself defensively and failed at everything.

[Bidofo]

Love was so bad in the 2018 playoffs it’s amazing people still call him a star or even an all-star level player. His one good series was against the Casey-coached Raptors who decided to put CJ Miles on him for stretches.

[homecourtloss]

Love was so bad in the 2018 playoffs it’s amazing people still call him a star or even an all-star level player. His one good series was against the Casey-coached Raptors who decided to put CJ Miles on him for stretches.

Before the formula change for BPM and hence VORP on BKREF, KLove had a negative VORP for the playoffs.

45.7% eFG is not good. 51.1% TS is also terrible.
— Before the formula change he had a -2.3 BPM
— .073 WS/48
—And -.1 VORP. That’s below a replacement level player, i.e., a bench 12th man scrub.

Only TWO players in NBA history have played 600+ minutes in a single playoffs, taken 250+ FGA and had a negative VORP (pre formula change):

Love in 2018 and Demar DeRozan in 2016.

[falcolombardi]

one of the thinghs that go against lebron is that he has played with a lot of high recognition names that were not that good by the time of playing with him or were never as good as their rep in the first place
specially because many of those were volume scorers which tend to get overated

is why having non high usage teammates is not only good to optimize teams around superstars. it also leads to them getting more credit

draymond green is as good of a sidekick to have as kyrie but it will never get your team called a superteam like a high volume scorer does

and not to sound like a hater but nobody benefitted from this more than jordan lol, the value of grant or rodman or even pippen is undervalued cause they were not as big of scorers as wade or even kyrie

while players like love or kyrie (or older wade post 2013 injury) had less value than their reputation and raw stats so it makes the main player receive less credit

[thebigbird]

one of the thinghs that go against lebron is that he has played with a lot of high recognition names that were not that good by the time of playing with him or were never as good as their rep in the first place
specially because many of those were volume scorers which tend to get overated

They love talking about the numbers Bosh and Love were putting up before joining LeBron. And sure, they had good box score numbers. But neither were winning anything without him. They were barely playing in the playoffs at all. In 18 combined seasons Love and Bosh have played a total of 11 playoff games without LeBron James on their team. Kevin Love has literally never made the playoffs without LeBron in 9 seasons. But they have the name recognition that someone like Khris Middleton doesn't, so they are stars and people don't see Middleton as one.

We hear about how LeBron's legacy was saved because of Ray Allen and Kyrie Irving because they each hit one clutch shot. And yeah, they were great shots. But the Bucks won two entire games in the ECF without Giannis to win the series. Of the teams LeBron has been on in the conference finals, how many win two games if LeBron doesn't play?

[SeniorWalker]

I mean, if you're judging Kevin Love and Chris Bosh as 1st options then yeah, they're not particular good. Moreso Love on that end, because Bosh was a very, very good player.

But as #3s, both are pretty darn good options to have.

I think in Love's case, in 2018 he could probably be seen as one of the better players in the EC. He did make an all-star team that year, so we shouldn't act like he was garbage. Though undoubtedly Cleveland was a lot weaker without Kyrie. Its just that they went from overwhelming EC favorites, to basically sort of in the pack with the rest of the teams with the clear best player and no superstar opponent. If 2018 Cleveland had to go up against virtually any top 3-4 EC team this year, they'd get bounced fairly easily (and I'm not even high on Trae). The pacers were minutes away from doing just that, before Love had that late game run to save them. Just saying, LeBron + Love and role players is enough to beat teams beneath that caliber. It proves how great he was and how weak the east was at the same time, imo.

[thebigbird]

I mean, if you're judging Kevin Love and Chris Bosh as 1st options then yeah, they're not particular good. Moreso Love on that end, because Bosh was a very, very good player.

But as #3s, both are pretty darn good options to have.

I think in Love's case, in 2018 he could probably be seen as one of the better players in the EC. He did make an all-star team that year, so we shouldn't act like he was garbage. Though undoubtedly Cleveland was a lot weaker without Kyrie. Its just that they went from overwhelming EC favorites, to basically sort of in the pack with the rest of the teams with the clear best player and no superstar opponent. If 2018 Cleveland had to go up against virtually any top 3-4 EC team this year, they'd get bounced fairly easily (and I'm not even high on Trae). The pacers were minutes away from doing just that, before Love had that late game run to save them. Just saying, LeBron + Love and role players is enough to beat teams beneath that caliber. It proves how great he was and how weak the east was at the same time, imo.

Love was fine in the regular season but was pretty terrible in the playoffs. He averaged 14.9 ppg on 51% TS as a second option.

People love to say that the East was super weak in 2018, but look at the East this year. The 1 seed Sixers got beat by the 5 seed Hawks. Milwaukee faced an injury-depleted Brooklyn team in the second round and the 5 seed Hawks in the eastern conference finals. If LeBron faced the teams that Milwaukee faced this year everyone would be talking about how weak the East was. The Cavs swept the 60 win Hawks in the ECF in 2015, the Bucks went to 6 games against the 5th seed Hawks in 2021, but the 60 win team was the "weak competition."

The east the Cavs went through in 2018 was stronger than the east that the Bucks just went through.
2018 Cavs:
48-34 Pacers
59-23 Raptors
55-27 Celtics

2021 Bucks:
40-32 Heat
48-24 injured Brooklyn
41-31 Hawks

You can't tell me that the Bucks went through a harder East this year than the Cavs went through in 2018. The Nets were injured, and they faced a fifth seed in the conference finals. Sure, on paper, it looked like the East was pretty good at the time that the playoffs started. But that wasn't the reality as the postseason unfolded.