Roy The Natural wrote: I think winning with Dame is clearly option A for Portland. But if they can't, I still see the 76ers on the outside looking in from Portland's prospective. 76ers have very little that's appealing for a rebuild.
I dont know what the Pels can offer.
But Sixers can match it if they want to and Im not saying we will do it
For instance..
Cavs: Tobias Harris and Thybulle Kings: Ben Simmons and Sexton OKC: Maxey SA: Paul Reed
Blazers: DeAaron Fox Marvin Bagley 2021 6th pick OKC 2021 9th pick Kings 2021 12th pick SAS 2022 pick swap with Sixers 2023 Sixers first round pick
There's a lot of moving parts in there and questionable accepts from other teams... However, yes... If Philly can get a bunch of other teams to give up big value for their stuff then obviously they can compete. However, the more help you need to complete a trader the more dubious the outlook becomes.
i have a couple questions for you as a Portland fan-
Do you think that if Portland were to trade Dame he would have a say on where he goes?
Also, if they trade Dame do you think the FO would want to go in full rebuild mode or want to continue to compete?
I will crack up laughing at Dame's reaction if he gets sent to New Orleans.
That's not a realistic destination for him. I know the Blazers want to maximize their return, but superstar deals are not about maximizing return. You just get the most you can from the team the star wants to go to.
I'm mot saying he ends up in Philly, either. Rather I think Dame is staying put. At least for now.
76ciology wrote: I dont know what the Pels can offer.
But Sixers can match it if they want to and Im not saying we will do it
For instance..
Cavs: Tobias Harris and Thybulle Kings: Ben Simmons and Sexton OKC: Maxey SA: Paul Reed
Blazers: DeAaron Fox Marvin Bagley 2021 6th pick OKC 2021 9th pick Kings 2021 12th pick SAS 2022 pick swap with Sixers 2023 Sixers first round pick
There's a lot of moving parts in there and questionable accepts from other teams... However, yes... If Philly can get a bunch of other teams to give up big value for their stuff then obviously they can compete. However, the more help you need to complete a trader the more dubious the outlook becomes.
i have a couple questions for you as a Portland fan-
Do you think that if Portland were to trade Dame he would have a say on where he goes?
Also, if they trade Dame do you think the FO would want to go in full rebuild mode or want to continue to compete?
I think Dame will get "some" say... he's not going to be allowed dictate some small list though. If/when Dame goes, Olshey is likely gone after, which will give the franchise the cover they need to blame everything on Olshey, including potentially trading Dame to a destination which wasn't in his top 3. I don't think the Blazers will do Dame dirty, but they'll probably take the best crop of offers that they like, feel comfortable with the value/fit of and let Dame choose from there. That's what I would think.
As for question 2. I think Portland will be looking to rebuild. Nurkic has already been stated to want out if Dame leaves... Covington will be moved due to his contract coming to an end... there's no realistic path forward off the treadmill in a situation revolving around a Ben Simmons type return. If Dame is moved Portland will likely move Nurkic and Covington as well to get value for them while they're under contract and will probably hold onto CJ for a year and see if he can up his value as a primary scorer ball-handler and take another year off the contract.
There's really not a legitimate viewpoint in which Portland tries to stay competitive after Dame with the contract situations as they currently are. At best you're looking at a surprise OKC a year ago type of "competing" where it's just taking an extra year to clean house.
the_process wrote:I will crack up laughing at Dame's reaction if he gets sent to New Orleans.
That's not a realistic destination for him. I know the Blazers want to maximize their return, but superstar deals are not about maximizing return. You just get the most you can from the team the star wants to go to.
I'm mot saying he ends up in Philly, either. Rather I think Dame is staying put. At least for now.
Generally this happens more when the star has a bunch of leverage. When's the last time we've seen a star with as much time on his contract as Dame get traded? Surely the Blazers will try and do right by him if it fits the needs of the organization to a respectable degree, but I don't expect the organization to bend over backwards to appease him on the way out. Give the reality that the organization and GM could be getting turned over soon as well, there is more at play here then your average low-control star trade.
the_process wrote:I will crack up laughing at Dame's reaction if he gets sent to New Orleans.
That's not a realistic destination for him. I know the Blazers want to maximize their return, but superstar deals are not about maximizing return. You just get the most you can from the team the star wants to go to.
I'm mot saying he ends up in Philly, either. Rather I think Dame is staying put. At least for now.
Generally this happens more when the star has a bunch of leverage. When's the last time we've seen a star with as much time on his contract as Dame get traded? Surely the Blazers will try and do right by him if it fits the needs of the organization to a respectable degree, but I don't expect the organization to bend over backwards to appease him on the way out. Give the reality that the organization and GM could be getting turned over soon as well, there is more at play here then your average low-control star trade.
Whats ur honest assessment on Dame? Can we win a championship with him and Embiid, say we trade Ben for him.
And whats the problem with him and cj? Both guys can play off the ball when one is creating with the ball right? Maybe the problem is having Kanter or Nurkic on defense? I personally think Blazers made a mistake on Roco. I’d probably get myself a C who is a better defender than Nurkic and Kanter. What can you say about Roco?
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
the_process wrote:I will crack up laughing at Dame's reaction if he gets sent to New Orleans.
That's not a realistic destination for him. I know the Blazers want to maximize their return, but superstar deals are not about maximizing return. You just get the most you can from the team the star wants to go to.
I'm mot saying he ends up in Philly, either. Rather I think Dame is staying put. At least for now.
Generally this happens more when the star has a bunch of leverage. When's the last time we've seen a star with as much time on his contract as Dame get traded? Surely the Blazers will try and do right by him if it fits the needs of the organization to a respectable degree, but I don't expect the organization to bend over backwards to appease him on the way out. Give the reality that the organization and GM could be getting turned over soon as well, there is more at play here then your average low-control star trade.
Whats ur honest assessment on Dame? Can we win a championship with him and Embiid, say we trade Ben for him.
And whats the problem with him and cj? Both guys can play off the ball when one is creating with the ball right? Maybe the problem is having Kanter or Nurkic on defense? I personally think Blazers made a mistake on Roco. I’d probably get myself a C who is a better defender than Nurkic and Kanter. What can you say about Roco?
Gun to head assessment of the Blazers... Not a single good defender on the bench in the rotation. For all the talk of CJ and Lillard being bad defenders.... they're subpar.... the Blazers had the 8th ranked defense 3 years ago and 18th 2 years ago with guys like Aminu, Harkless, and Evan Turner at the wings.
The real defensive issues with the Blazers are that they don't have a true point of attack defender on the roster that they can use throughout the game to halt penetration... and what's worse, is Stotts. He either doesn't understand NBA defense, or isn't holding the players accountable on that end. I feel as if Portland's players are often put in terrible positions defensively, positions that set them up to fail.
For example, I can't tell you how many times an opposing guard gets penetration and CJ is tasked with covering the strongside corner shooter. The corner shooter could be Seth Curry, and it could be Thybulle driving to the rim, and CJ will collapse all the way into the paint to swipe at the ball and leave Seth Curry wide open for the corner 3. This is by design, this is the design of the Blazers defense... I think Stotts doesn't really know what he's doing defensively. CJ doesn't have the size or athleticism to be an effective helper in such a situation, and he doesn't have the size or athleticism to recover 16 feet to contest a corner 3... why not just design the defense around him covering up that shooter?.... The Blazers don't do that... I don't know why.
Nurkic is a FANTASTIC defender. I think a bunch of people still struggle with understanding Nurkic as a player... he's not a big white stiff... he's one of the best defensive 5's in the game IMO. With Nurkic healthy and playing 30 minutes a game, I'd posit the Blazers are ranked more around 18-22 defensively over the year. Nurk just can't stay healthy though. The starting lineup even when Powell/CJ/Lillard played together was actually pretty decent defensively. The problem is that the bench minutes go to Simons, Carmelo, and Kanter primarily.... that's an awful trio defensively... and the offense stagnates horribly when the bench comes in as well due to a lineup full of players who tend to isolate more than play team ball. I actually think Nassir Little looked pretty solid defensively when he got run, and I thought DJJ was Portland's best perimeter defender last year... but they never got run because Stotts seemed to give up and try to just outscore everyone.
I think Dame and Embiid is probably a contender. I think Embiid and Lillard in the pick and pop is fantastic, and I think you get the best of Dame if he can rest offensively throughout the game and not have to dictate offense every moment of the game. Which I think you can do with Embiid. I would try and keep Thybulle if I'm trading Simmons if I'm the 76ers... but Tobias/Lillard/Embiid is good enough to when any series if they're all playing well.
Bullock doesn't provide any defensive impact. And he lacks the bulk to take on bigger defensive assignments than Green can. And no intangibles that Danny possesses.
Bullock is basically just a skinny shooting specialists with no defense or handle.
Roy The Natural wrote: Generally this happens more when the star has a bunch of leverage. When's the last time we've seen a star with as much time on his contract as Dame get traded? Surely the Blazers will try and do right by him if it fits the needs of the organization to a respectable degree, but I don't expect the organization to bend over backwards to appease him on the way out. Give the reality that the organization and GM could be getting turned over soon as well, there more at play here then your average low-control star trade.
Whats ur honest assessment on Dame? Can we win a championship with him and Embiid, say we trade Ben for him.
And whats the problem with him and cj? Both guys can play off the ball when one is creating with the ball right? Maybe the problem is having Kanter or Nurkic on defense? I personally think Blazers made a mistake on Roco. I’d probably get myself a C who is a better defender than Nurkic and Kanter. What can you say about Roco?
Gun to head assessment of the Blazers... Not a single good defender on the bench in the rotation. For all the talk of CJ and Lillard being bad defenders.... they're subpar.... the Blazers had the 8th ranked defense 3 years ago and 18th 2 years ago with guys like Aminu, Harkless, and Evan Turner at the wings.
The real defensive issues with the Blazers are that they don't have a true point of attack defender on the roster that they can use throughout the game to halt penetration... and what's worse, is Stotts. He either doesn't understand NBA defense, or isn't holding the players accountable on that end. I feel as if Portland's players are often put in terrible positions defensively, positions that set them up to fail.
For example, I can't tell you how many times an opposing guard gets penetration and CJ is tasked with covering the strongside corner shooter. The corner shooter could be Seth Curry, and it could be Thybulle driving to the rim, and CJ will collapse all the way into the paint to swipe at the ball and leave Seth Curry wide open for the corner 3. This is by design, this is the design of the Blazers defense... I think Stotts doesn't really know what he's doing defensively. CJ doesn't have the size or athleticism to be an effective helper in such a situation, and he doesn't have the size or athleticism to recover 16 feet to contest a corner 3... why not just design the defense around him covering up that shooter?.... The Blazers don't do that... I don't know why.
Nurkic is a FANTASTIC defender. I think a bunch of people still struggle with understanding Nurkic as a player... he's not a big white stiff... he's one of the best defensive 5's in the game IMO. With Nurkic healthy and playing 30 minutes a game, I'd posit the Blazers are ranked more around 18-22 defensively over the year. Nurk just can't stay healthy though. The starting lineup even when Powell/CJ/Lillard played together was actually pretty decent defensively. The problem is that the bench minutes go to Simons, Carmelo, and Kanter primarily.... that's an awful trio defensively... and the offense stagnates horribly when the bench comes in as well due to a lineup full of players who tend to isolate more than play team ball. I actually think Nassir Little looked pretty solid defensively when he got run, and I thought DJJ was Portland's best perimeter defender last year... but they never got run because Stotts seemed to give up and try to just outscore everyone.
I think Dame and Embiid is probably a contender. I think Embiid and Lillard in the pick and pop is fantastic, and I think you get the best of Dame if he can rest offensively throughout the game and not have to dictate offense every moment of the game. Which I think you can do with Embiid. I would try and keep Thybulle if I'm trading Simmons if I'm the 76ers... but Tobias/Lillard/Embiid is good enough to when any series if they're all playing well.
Thanks! I learned a lot from your response.
First off, I think the best way to play defense is switching. And that’s why Blazers have a hard time playing defense. You got 2-3 guys who aren’t switchable or possibly targets on defense. Ability to switch is actually the Bucks biggest strength on their game for me. Its also the same reason for the last 3 champion teams.
With that said, you can’t be switchable on defense with Dame and CJ. So you need to play it on your game which is turning the game into a scoring contest. Its pretty much what other teams like the Suns, Nets, Hawks and Nets plans to do.
I haven’t looked at the numbers recently, but the last time I checked Blazers offense and iso numbers are elite.
Teams usually do the “final piece” move by trading multiple picks for a player to get them their final piece. Suns did it with CP3, Nets with Harden and Bucks with Jrue. And I think thats where Blazers went wrong and is paying the price by using it for Roco.
If you ask me, I’d attach a couple of picks and trade CJ for a 2 way player instead. That would solve your defensive problem and still allow you to be great on offense. You wont be able to solve this even if you have Ben Simmons in place of roco, because you have two weak links that is hard to make-up.
I agree that Dame and Embiid looks good. I think the league is inconsistent with their calls. Early in the playoffs they were soft on fouls then suddenly they allow more physicality on defense, and this favors the Bucks style of play. With that said looking at the Bucks, they can play “”soft on fouls” by letting Jrue and Middleton lead and “more physical on fouls” by unleashing Giannis.
You rarely see Giannis going for alley opps off the PnR. It’s more of trying to get him into some mismatch he can take advantage with on 1v1, it’s something we can also do.
I like Dame. I think we can get him if we really want to get him but I also entertain the possibility of not being able to get him for a lot of reasons and it actually has a higher probability than being able to get him.
Defensively, I think you can get away with it with only having one liability. Then have guys who have the length that can send help and rotate quick. This is where I think Blazers is wrong to pair two weak defending backcourts and I agree with you that we need to retain Thybulle or get someone similar.
Its just that I dont want to be in a position again where we focus on getting talent then dont think it through on their fit and relative to how the game is played that is leading to all these clunkiness
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
Foshan wrote:Looks like Cavs are trying to move Love, and maybe are realizing his value is crap.
I think we should call about Tobi for Love/Sexton.
I think Tobi gives the vet stability that a young team could use in hoping to jump from crappy lotto team, to start getting playoff experience.
Tobias is the best player of the 3, Sexton/Love don’t like each other & Love has one of the worst contracts
Cavs would need to pay us a lot to take this on
Love likely won’t be playing. So the fact he and Sexton don’t get along (on the court, Love hates that Sexton is a ball hog) won’t matter. If you can get that done without picks and you’re keeping Ben it makes it all the more attractive.
