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2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22

Grade the Suns off-season moves so far

A
4
5%
B
40
53%
C
23
30%
D
8
11%
F
1
1%
 
Total votes: 76

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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#261 » by BobbieL » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:07 pm

grumpysaddle wrote:CP3 wasn't my favorite choice in the off-season as I doubted he would be able to keep from declining at this stage in his career, but he mostly proved me wrong, until what I thought was a lackluster Finals performance (decent offensive numbers, but watching games 3-6, it definitely felt like he disappeared, IMO, disagree if you want).

Hypothetically, if you could trade CP3 + say... 4 FRPs to the Blazers for Damian Lillard, would you?

Lillard is 31, but he's still playing ridiculous basketball that I don't see slowing down for at least 5 more seasons. He's had sort of crap teams surrounding him that were all lacking in something important. He's coldblooded in pressure moments. You can always get FRPs back in future trades. I think I'd definitely do it.


Serious question - would Lillard and Booker work well together. Paul seems to be a better facilitator than Paul. No doubt Damian is a tremendous scorer of the ball but would he limit the growth of Ayton, Booker, Bridges, CAm J - etc
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#262 » by grumpysaddle » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:16 pm

BobbieL wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:CP3 wasn't my favorite choice in the off-season as I doubted he would be able to keep from declining at this stage in his career, but he mostly proved me wrong, until what I thought was a lackluster Finals performance (decent offensive numbers, but watching games 3-6, it definitely felt like he disappeared, IMO, disagree if you want).

Hypothetically, if you could trade CP3 + say... 4 FRPs to the Blazers for Damian Lillard, would you?

Lillard is 31, but he's still playing ridiculous basketball that I don't see slowing down for at least 5 more seasons. He's had sort of crap teams surrounding him that were all lacking in something important. He's coldblooded in pressure moments. You can always get FRPs back in future trades. I think I'd definitely do it.


Serious question - would Lillard and Booker work well together. Paul seems to be a better facilitator than Paul. No doubt Damian is a tremendous scorer of the ball but would he limit the growth of Ayton, Booker, Bridges, CAm J - etc


That's valid, but I think Monty could work with him on it. I think Portland just asked him to do EVERYTHING for them, when the Suns have so much more option-wise. I think he could be a great facilitator if the offense was based around it. Obviously, he'll never be on the level of CP3 in that role, but not many are or ever will be. The team has super important experience now and I feel like they continue to grow regardless of CP3 being here.

I'm not against keeping CP3, just thinking of options for the future. I'd rather have Lillard at supermax at 31-35/36 than Paul at $33M/yr at 37-40.
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#263 » by BobbieL » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:21 pm

grumpysaddle wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:CP3 wasn't my favorite choice in the off-season as I doubted he would be able to keep from declining at this stage in his career, but he mostly proved me wrong, until what I thought was a lackluster Finals performance (decent offensive numbers, but watching games 3-6, it definitely felt like he disappeared, IMO, disagree if you want).

Hypothetically, if you could trade CP3 + say... 4 FRPs to the Blazers for Damian Lillard, would you?

Lillard is 31, but he's still playing ridiculous basketball that I don't see slowing down for at least 5 more seasons. He's had sort of crap teams surrounding him that were all lacking in something important. He's coldblooded in pressure moments. You can always get FRPs back in future trades. I think I'd definitely do it.


Serious question - would Lillard and Booker work well together. Paul seems to be a better facilitator than Paul. No doubt Damian is a tremendous scorer of the ball but would he limit the growth of Ayton, Booker, Bridges, CAm J - etc


That's valid, but I think Monty could work with him on it. I think Portland just asked him to do EVERYTHING for them, when the Suns have so much more option-wise. I think he could be a great facilitator if the offense was based around it. Obviously, he'll never be on the level of CP3 in that role, but not many are or ever will be. The team has super important experience now and I feel like they continue to grow regardless of CP3 being here.

I'm not against keeping CP3, just thinking of options for the future. I'd rather have Lillard at supermax at 31-35/36 than Paul at $33M/yr at 37-40.


The biggest part of this is the Suns cannot sign and trade Paul. Well I doubt he would go to the Blazers
So a three way trade
Lakers: Paul
Suns; LIllard
Blazers: get whatever from Suns and Lakers..

I don't think the Suns would be worse with Damian Lillard with how he is playing. The dollars are the dollars. But what is the cost to get him from a playerDraft pick level. The Lakers don't have jack squat to give up for Lillard.
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#264 » by grumpysaddle » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:23 pm

BobbieL wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Serious question - would Lillard and Booker work well together. Paul seems to be a better facilitator than Paul. No doubt Damian is a tremendous scorer of the ball but would he limit the growth of Ayton, Booker, Bridges, CAm J - etc


That's valid, but I think Monty could work with him on it. I think Portland just asked him to do EVERYTHING for them, when the Suns have so much more option-wise. I think he could be a great facilitator if the offense was based around it. Obviously, he'll never be on the level of CP3 in that role, but not many are or ever will be. The team has super important experience now and I feel like they continue to grow regardless of CP3 being here.

I'm not against keeping CP3, just thinking of options for the future. I'd rather have Lillard at supermax at 31-35/36 than Paul at $33M/yr at 37-40.


The biggest part of this is the Suns cannot sign and trade Paul. Well I doubt he would go to the Blazers
So a three way trade
Lakers: Paul
Suns; LIllard
Blazers: get whatever from Suns and Lakers..

I don't think the Suns would be worse with Damian Lillard with how he is playing. The dollars are the dollars. But what is the cost to get him from a playerDraft pick level. The Lakers don't have jack squat to give up for Lillard.

Or perhaps Knicks in a three-way trade?
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#265 » by BobbieL » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:35 pm

grumpysaddle wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:
That's valid, but I think Monty could work with him on it. I think Portland just asked him to do EVERYTHING for them, when the Suns have so much more option-wise. I think he could be a great facilitator if the offense was based around it. Obviously, he'll never be on the level of CP3 in that role, but not many are or ever will be. The team has super important experience now and I feel like they continue to grow regardless of CP3 being here.

I'm not against keeping CP3, just thinking of options for the future. I'd rather have Lillard at supermax at 31-35/36 than Paul at $33M/yr at 37-40.


The biggest part of this is the Suns cannot sign and trade Paul. Well I doubt he would go to the Blazers
So a three way trade
Lakers: Paul
Suns; LIllard
Blazers: get whatever from Suns and Lakers..

I don't think the Suns would be worse with Damian Lillard with how he is playing. The dollars are the dollars. But what is the cost to get him from a playerDraft pick level. The Lakers don't have jack squat to give up for Lillard.

Or perhaps Knicks in a three-way trade?


Good point - maybe Paul goes to the Knicks

I am sure the Suns would have to give up Bridges or Cam plus draft picks
(if we are rosterbating over Dame Time :D )
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#266 » by suns12345 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:29 pm

BobbieL wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
The biggest part of this is the Suns cannot sign and trade Paul. Well I doubt he would go to the Blazers
So a three way trade
Lakers: Paul
Suns; LIllard
Blazers: get whatever from Suns and Lakers..

I don't think the Suns would be worse with Damian Lillard with how he is playing. The dollars are the dollars. But what is the cost to get him from a playerDraft pick level. The Lakers don't have jack squat to give up for Lillard.

Or perhaps Knicks in a three-way trade?


Good point - maybe Paul goes to the Knicks

I am sure the Suns would have to give up Bridges or Cam plus draft picks
(if we are rosterbating over Dame Time :D )


I'd probably do that to be fair. won't happen though.
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#267 » by sunskerr » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:31 pm

Id love to get lillard here. And I would give up Paul for him as well as Bridges. I think all the players that Lillard+Booker+Ayton would attract would more than make up for Bridges' absence. But I don't think that Bridges + whatever picks we have is nearly enough to be a centerpiece for a Lillard acquisition (Blazers will not take Paul) and the Lakers literally have no pieces at all.

That being said, Lillard would be a massive upgrade over Paul. I think Paul's defense at this point is pretty diminished (at best, marginally better than Lillard's) and Lillard outclasses him massively on offense now.
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#268 » by spanishninja » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:45 pm

sunskerr wrote:Id love to get lillard here. And I would give up Paul for him as well as Bridges. I think all the players that Lillard+Booker+Ayton would attract would more than make up for Bridges' absence. But I don't think that Bridges + whatever picks we have is nearly enough to be a centerpiece for a Lillard acquisition (Blazers will not take Paul) and the Lakers literally have no pieces at all.

That being said, Lillard would be a massive upgrade over Paul. I think Paul's defense at this point is pretty diminished (at best, marginally better than Lillard's) and Lillard outclasses him massively on offense now.


yeah, and it's sad to say, but CP3 has made too many enemies in this league. not just talking about Scott Foster either. we'd continue to suffer by association.
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#269 » by BobbieL » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:46 pm

sunskerr wrote:Id love to get lillard here. And I would give up Paul for him as well as Bridges. I think all the players that Lillard+Booker+Ayton would attract would more than make up for Bridges' absence. But I don't think that Bridges + whatever picks we have is nearly enough to be a centerpiece for a Lillard acquisition (Blazers will not take Paul) and the Lakers literally have no pieces at all.

That being said, Lillard would be a massive upgrade over Paul. I think Paul's defense at this point is pretty diminished (at best, marginally better than Lillard's) and Lillard outclasses him massively on offense now.


The problem is - the Lakers got jack squat to send in a trade. I know on twitter that Lakers fans think KCP, Kuzma or Harrell and the incredibe prospect - THT - will have value. Needless to say -its the pupu platter of trades and all of their draft picks are already going to the Big Easy

So making it a three team trade - again for rosterbation purposes :D -work with the Knicks

What could the Knicks trade the Suns essentially for Chris Paul (if he were amenable to go there) - that can be added to the Suns assets for Dame Lillard

And if the Knicks are giving up assets - they would just go get Lillard themselves.

I am not sure I see a pathway for Lillard
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#270 » by grumpysaddle » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:01 pm

BobbieL wrote:
sunskerr wrote:Id love to get lillard here. And I would give up Paul for him as well as Bridges. I think all the players that Lillard+Booker+Ayton would attract would more than make up for Bridges' absence. But I don't think that Bridges + whatever picks we have is nearly enough to be a centerpiece for a Lillard acquisition (Blazers will not take Paul) and the Lakers literally have no pieces at all.

That being said, Lillard would be a massive upgrade over Paul. I think Paul's defense at this point is pretty diminished (at best, marginally better than Lillard's) and Lillard outclasses him massively on offense now.


The problem is - the Lakers got jack squat to send in a trade. I know on twitter that Lakers fans think KCP, Kuzma or Harrell and the incredibe prospect - THT - will have value. Needless to say -its the pupu platter of trades and all of their draft picks are already going to the Big Easy

So making it a three team trade - again for rosterbation purposes :D -work with the Knicks

What could the Knicks trade the Suns essentially for Chris Paul (if he were amenable to go there) - that can be added to the Suns assets for Dame Lillard

And if the Knicks are giving up assets - they would just go get Lillard themselves.

I am not sure I see a pathway for Lillard

I have no clue, I'm really bad at trying to piece together trades that work. I'm also hesitant to give Bridges up, but I know you need to pay to get good stuff back. I mean the Blazers could go full rebuild and get 4 FRPs from the Suns and 2 FRPs from the Knicks, in exchange we send CP3 to the Knicks if he'd agree to that, and Lillard comes here. Or Bridges and maybe 3 FRPs to Blazers. Knicks basically get CP3 for 2 picks, Suns get Lillard for bridges (or CamJo) and 3 picks, and blazers get a great young player or two and 5 pucks to build for the future. I'm bad at all this, but damn I want Dame on the Suns.
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#271 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:11 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Adrao wrote:Mike Vigil says Suns sould try to hire a third star trading if needed. It souns interesting.


Just sent to his twitter to find that he posted this...

Read on Twitter

The guy has so much hate in his heart. Let it go Salts McGee
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#272 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:18 pm

BobbieL wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:CP3 wasn't my favorite choice in the off-season as I doubted he would be able to keep from declining at this stage in his career, but he mostly proved me wrong, until what I thought was a lackluster Finals performance (decent offensive numbers, but watching games 3-6, it definitely felt like he disappeared, IMO, disagree if you want).

Hypothetically, if you could trade CP3 + say... 4 FRPs to the Blazers for Damian Lillard, would you?

Lillard is 31, but he's still playing ridiculous basketball that I don't see slowing down for at least 5 more seasons. He's had sort of crap teams surrounding him that were all lacking in something important. He's coldblooded in pressure moments. You can always get FRPs back in future trades. I think I'd definitely do it.


Serious question - would Lillard and Booker work well together. Paul seems to be a better facilitator than Paul. No doubt Damian is a tremendous scorer of the ball but would he limit the growth of Ayton, Booker, Bridges, CAm J - etc

I would do it. If Dame could work with CJ, I think he can work with Book. CP3 is certainly better at elevating the team but how long can he do it for and are we going to seriously rely on him this much moving forward?

And to be honest, I felt like the offensive burden on Book was a little too much in the Finals. CP3 can score the ball as we've seen but with another season under his belt and another season further from his prime, you'd have to wonder if he's a guy you can rely on to carry part of that scoring load going forward. If we can nab Dame, I'd certainly explore some trade scenarios.

But it won't happen, not because of chemistry or because he won't work with Book but because I don't think JJ has the heart to do that to CP3 after the fairy tale Finals run we've just had. It's just not JJ's style
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#273 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:26 pm

grumpysaddle wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
sunskerr wrote:Id love to get lillard here. And I would give up Paul for him as well as Bridges. I think all the players that Lillard+Booker+Ayton would attract would more than make up for Bridges' absence. But I don't think that Bridges + whatever picks we have is nearly enough to be a centerpiece for a Lillard acquisition (Blazers will not take Paul) and the Lakers literally have no pieces at all.

That being said, Lillard would be a massive upgrade over Paul. I think Paul's defense at this point is pretty diminished (at best, marginally better than Lillard's) and Lillard outclasses him massively on offense now.


The problem is - the Lakers got jack squat to send in a trade. I know on twitter that Lakers fans think KCP, Kuzma or Harrell and the incredibe prospect - THT - will have value. Needless to say -its the pupu platter of trades and all of their draft picks are already going to the Big Easy

So making it a three team trade - again for rosterbation purposes :D -work with the Knicks

What could the Knicks trade the Suns essentially for Chris Paul (if he were amenable to go there) - that can be added to the Suns assets for Dame Lillard

And if the Knicks are giving up assets - they would just go get Lillard themselves.

I am not sure I see a pathway for Lillard

I have no clue, I'm really bad at trying to piece together trades that work. I'm also hesitant to give Bridges up, but I know you need to pay to get good stuff back. I mean the Blazers could go full rebuild and get 4 FRPs from the Suns and 2 FRPs from the Knicks, in exchange we send CP3 to the Knicks if he'd agree to that, and Lillard comes here. Or Bridges and maybe 3 FRPs to Blazers. Knicks basically get CP3 for 2 picks, Suns get Lillard for bridges (or CamJo) and 3 picks, and blazers get a great young player or two and 5 pucks to build for the future. I'm bad at all this, but damn I want Dame on the Suns.

I'd give up Bridges for a top 10 player in Dame for sure. With a 3 team trade, I just don't know what would be enough for Portland. Assuming CP3 is going to either LA or NY then what's the centerpiece going to Portland? Bridges? THT? Kuz? Mid to late FRPs?

Just can't see an avenue to get Dame here UNLESS Dame wants to come here and Neil Olshey wants to do right by Dame
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#274 » by grumpysaddle » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:43 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
The problem is - the Lakers got jack squat to send in a trade. I know on twitter that Lakers fans think KCP, Kuzma or Harrell and the incredibe prospect - THT - will have value. Needless to say -its the pupu platter of trades and all of their draft picks are already going to the Big Easy

So making it a three team trade - again for rosterbation purposes :D -work with the Knicks

What could the Knicks trade the Suns essentially for Chris Paul (if he were amenable to go there) - that can be added to the Suns assets for Dame Lillard

And if the Knicks are giving up assets - they would just go get Lillard themselves.

I am not sure I see a pathway for Lillard

I have no clue, I'm really bad at trying to piece together trades that work. I'm also hesitant to give Bridges up, but I know you need to pay to get good stuff back. I mean the Blazers could go full rebuild and get 4 FRPs from the Suns and 2 FRPs from the Knicks, in exchange we send CP3 to the Knicks if he'd agree to that, and Lillard comes here. Or Bridges and maybe 3 FRPs to Blazers. Knicks basically get CP3 for 2 picks, Suns get Lillard for bridges (or CamJo) and 3 picks, and blazers get a great young player or two and 5 pucks to build for the future. I'm bad at all this, but damn I want Dame on the Suns.

I'd give up Bridges for a top 10 player in Dame for sure. With a 3 team trade, I just don't know what would be enough for Portland. Assuming CP3 is going to either LA or NY then what's the centerpiece going to Portland? Bridges? THT? Kuz? Mid to late FRPs?

Just can't see an avenue to get Dame here UNLESS Dame wants to come here and Neil Olshey wants to do right by Dame


Book and Dame are gonna be spending a LOT of time together in Tokyo... Just sayinnnnnng.

But yeah, CP3 would have to want out, but at the same time, they moved Rubio without a second thought. CP3 is 10x the player Rubio has ever been (and I really like Rubio), but I think if the opportunity comes to pick up someone like Lillard, and at CP3's age and desire for a longer, still expensive contract, I think you'd be crazy not to pull the trigger if the opportunity arose.
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#275 » by LukasBMW » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:53 pm

sunskerr wrote:Id love to get lillard here. And I would give up Paul for him as well as Bridges. I think all the players that Lillard+Booker+Ayton would attract would more than make up for Bridges' absence. But I don't think that Bridges + whatever picks we have is nearly enough to be a centerpiece for a Lillard acquisition (Blazers will not take Paul) and the Lakers literally have no pieces at all.

That being said, Lillard would be a massive upgrade over Paul. I think Paul's defense at this point is pretty diminished (at best, marginally better than Lillard's) and Lillard outclasses him massively on offense now.


Maybe some type of 3 way with LAL/Portland/Phoenix

Paul to LAC
Kuzma, Bridges, and 3 Phx #1's to Portland
Lillard to Phoenix

We'd easily pick up 2 or 3 ring chasers for cheap in FA.
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#276 » by darealjuice » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:00 am

It's free to dream, but it sounds like Portland is more likely to trade CJ and go all in with Lillard than anything else. I don't think we have the assets to swing it anyways.
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#277 » by bwgood77 » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:04 am

Lillard would probably love to come to Phx. Him and Booker seem to like each other. They would certainly work better with someone like Bridges next to them and Ayton on D. Those who complain and want more from Bridges and Ayton on offense certainly are not likely to see it with Lillard though. Lillard is an obvious upgrade on the court in individual play over Paul. As a team player I do not know, though obviously Paul will decline fairly quickly if not this next year, probably the following year. I remember being super impressed with Lillard when McCollum and Nurkic were out and he was carrying Portland. But when Nurkic and CJ got back, they seemed worse.

Who do you want taking the last shot? I think Book wants this responsibility but obviously you want Lillard taking it. I think he's the most clutch last second player in a while. He would win games on last second shots, usually 3s fairly often, and I remember one game they were down by like 7 with 9 seconds left or something and he somehow hit some 3s and one...or had like 2 in 5 seconds.

Anyway, we would be a potent guard tandem. I think keeping CP3 a couple more years would help other guys on the team develop a lot more, through teaching as well as being more involved in the offense.

All in all, it would seem dumb not to trade, but if you had to give up a ton, I am not sure it makes sense.

It all is probably moot though, because the Knicks could sign Paul outright..if he knows they will pay him what he wants they sign him outright so they don't have to give up anything.

If he wants to go to the Lakers he would have to opt out...and then a 3 way with Portland can't happen.

I don't see it...I don't think it's realistic from those trade points of view or we have enough assets we would want to deal for him, but also because I think the team, coach and GM love Paul and they just made the finals.

I could see Book wanting it, and Lillard, but I don't think Paul holds any trade value to a team that could sign him outright, and if a team is over the cap they'd have to send out a ton of salary to Portland...and probably assets along with some assets for us. It's hard for us to trade picks for like the next 4-5 years so a team likely wouldn't want that, so they'd want a premier player...more than Bridges. They'd do it for Bridges and Ayton. Or probably Cam and Ayton.
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#278 » by bwgood77 » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:06 am

darealjuice wrote:It's free to dream, but it sounds like Portland is more likely to trade CJ and go all in with Lillard than anything else. I don't think we have the assets to swing it anyways.


But Steven A Smith said what they Lakers should do, is trade Kuzma for Lillard.....while looking at the camera with wide eyes as if this was a crazy good idea that is realistic.
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#279 » by Cutter » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:07 am

I'd pass on Lillard. Not worth it, and won't move the needle for the Suns.
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Re: 2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation 

Post#280 » by grumpysaddle » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:23 am

Another one... If Indy offered Sabonis straight up for Bridges, would you?

Bridges is one of my favorite players on the team, like I've said, but I'd probably do it. I think Sabonis and Ayton can work together, at least for spurts, and they'd grab damn near every rebound available out there. Ayton rebounds with athleticism, but Sabonis is just a hard worker to get them. He's not great defensively, but him in place of Saric or Kaminsky would be crazy. Cam Johnson slides into the starting 5 to space the floor more consistently than Crowder, and Crowder can lead the 2nd unit.

CP3/Booker/CamJo/Sabonis/Ayton

Could be pretty awesome, IMO. But I really like Sabonis and what he brings.
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