Trade targets

bkohler · Post #161 » by **bkohler** » Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:36 am

My personal favorite is still attempting to talk the Warriors into Ingles/Bogey for Wiggins + 7. Or Ingles/Bogey/Favors for Wiggins/ Paschall/14.

Wiggins is overpaid but still decent and adding a lottery pick to that core which would still compete would be ideal. Use 7( or 14) /30 and hopefully a purchased second rounder to fill out the roster with cheaper talent. Wiggins becomes a very large expiring next year and I'm not convinced he doesn't have a bit more than neutral value right now.

Mitchell / ???
Moses Moody(?) / Clarkson / Oni
Wiggins / ???
Royce / Batum (TP MLE)
Gobert / Dok

Gert42 · Post #162 » by **Gert42** » Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:42 am

It's not a terrible deal because it keeps the Warriors with all of their premium youth assets (Wiseman & #7) and gets the Jazz into the lottery. I'm not sure about it if we are worried about keeping Donovan long term how trading out Bogey & Ingles for the package helps, but I do think Wiggins is being too harshly judged for what he hasn't lived up to be as a former #1 overall pick and not what he can contribute to a team now.

babyjax13 · Post #163 » by **babyjax13** » Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:08 am

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
Gert42 wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
I think the right team will find value in Favs.

I just don't see it. A team may value what Favors has to offer, but not enough to trade something of real value to bring him in. Guys like Favors get signed to 1 year deals between every 4-6 million every off-season. Some team would have to be really enamored with him.

I really have a hard time trying to figure out what kind of value Bogey & or Ingles has in the trade market. They certainly would have interest, but who could we get back that would actually make the Jazz better based on they lose from trading them?

I've thrown it out there before, and am warming up to the idea even more myself since then- Bogey and #30 for Kuzma, McKennie and #22.
Kuzma was on the rise before AD came along, and he has better defense and athletism and size than Bogey. You'll probably lose some shooting, but hopefully the defense will offset and perhaps Kuzma could surprise on offense too. Bogey is also getting old.

With McKinnie, you either build depth or have the flexibility of unloading Oni or Thomas. Since all of them are NG, you could theoretically dump them all and I believe be under the luxury tax (until Conley is resigned) and have some flexiblity to sign other free agents in the BAE to MLE level.

#30 is going to be a decent pick this year, #22 gets you into a typical late lottery selection most years, IMO.

Lakers get the outside shooting they need and someone on the timeline of their win now mode.

Not sure that Ingles gets you more than he costs the Jazz. I would keep him, nice to have his skills.

I think Kuzma + 22 for Bojan is reasonable value, but I really dislike Kuzma and would only do this if he's going elsewhere. Adding 30 just makes it a huge no-go.

zero24gravity · Post #164 » by **zero24gravity** » Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:31 pm

Unless he's part of a bigger package that brings is a true game-changer, I don't see the Jazz trading Ingles. You'd need to bring in 2 players (a wing & a PG) to replace him, and from everything I've read/heard, his locker-room presence is invaluable. He's a glue guy, whom everyone loves to play with. His cap hit is minimal compared to his contribution to the team. I just don't see it happening. Trading "equal" value for him wouldn't actually bring back anything close to equal, IMO.

Using Bojan to get a more athletic forward would be ideal. He's a good player, who is capable of being a 20 ppg scorer for a lot of teams, or a great 2nd/3rd option for a contender that already has enough athleticism. There has to be a trade partner out there for him. A (3 team) trade to get a guy like Larry Nance Jr (or D.Hunter... even though I'm sure he's not available) would be preferable to me.

If you can move Favs, you probably have to do it. I think he's more valuable than a lot of others believe, but I get there are better ways to use cap space, and the man it slowing down.

Clarkson, I'm still on the fence about. Having a player, other than Mitchell (and Conley), who can just light it up & strike fear into the other team, is great! He's fantastic at his role as 6th man, obviously. Still, will his value ever be higher? Will he sustain that role for the next couple years? Hard to say.

chrbal · Post #165 » by **chrbal** » Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:18 pm

zero24gravity wrote:If you can move Favs, you probably have to do it. I think he's more valuable than a lot of others believe, but I get there are better ways to use cap space, and the man it slowing down.

Would the jazz attach 30 to Favors to move him for essentially cap space?

To put it into perspective this is what I’m thinking. Detroit has already traded Plumlee without taking back a veteran center or something like that.

So Detroit trades 52 or 42 with jahlil Okafor for 30 and Derrick Favors.

Jazz open up $7.5 million in cap space and remove the 2nd year entirely. Okafor is more just a cheap 3rd string center, possibly just dealt to another team.

Pistons secure a late 1st and add a replacement young veteran to help the kids along. Also gets Stewart into the starting spot full time. Pick is more needed to combine with another 2nd to move up if needed.

zero24gravity · Post #166 » by **zero24gravity** » Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:37 pm

chrbal wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:If you can move Favs, you probably have to do it. I think he's more valuable than a lot of others believe, but I get there are better ways to use cap space, and the man it slowing down.

Would the jazz attach 30 to Favors to move him for essentially cap space?

To put it into perspective this is what I’m thinking. Detroit has already traded Plumlee without taking back a veteran center or something like that.

So Detroit trades 52 or 42 with jahlil Okafor for 30 and Derrick Favors.

Jazz open up $7.5 million in cap space and remove the 2nd year entirely. Okafor is more just a cheap 3rd string center, possibly just dealt to another team.

Pistons secure a late 1st and add a replacement young veteran to help the kids along. Also gets Stewart into the starting spot full time. Pick is more needed to combine with another 2nd to move up if needed.

Freeing up cap space only matters if enough is freed to be able to use it. Just dumping Favors alone, gets the team nowhere, especially if Conley comes back. But if it's a move that gets them someone else (similar to the last time the Jazz traded Favors to make room for Bojan), then I can see something like this working. (Although we'd get plenty of people wanting to crucify the FO for "wasting" draft picks.)

Hoping the team feels confident they can give Azubuike real run this year, when needed. As well as adding a more flexible "small ball" center. If they do, Favors (who is one of my favorite players) is expendable & they need to find a way to move him one way or another.

chrbal · Post #167 » by **chrbal** » Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:35 pm

zero24gravity wrote:
chrbal wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:If you can move Favs, you probably have to do it. I think he's more valuable than a lot of others believe, but I get there are better ways to use cap space, and the man it slowing down.

Would the jazz attach 30 to Favors to move him for essentially cap space?

To put it into perspective this is what I’m thinking. Detroit has already traded Plumlee without taking back a veteran center or something like that.

So Detroit trades 52 or 42 with jahlil Okafor for 30 and Derrick Favors.

Jazz open up $7.5 million in cap space and remove the 2nd year entirely. Okafor is more just a cheap 3rd string center, possibly just dealt to another team.

Pistons secure a late 1st and add a replacement young veteran to help the kids along. Also gets Stewart into the starting spot full time. Pick is more needed to combine with another 2nd to move up if needed.

Freeing up cap space only matters if enough is freed to be able to use it. Just dumping Favors alone, gets the team nowhere, especially if Conley comes back. But if it's a move that gets them someone else (similar to the last time the Jazz traded Favors to make room for Bojan), then I can see something like this working. (Although we'd get plenty of people wanting to crucify the FO for "wasting" draft picks.)

Hoping the team feels confident they can give Azubuike real run this year, when needed. As well as adding a more flexible "small ball" center. If they do, Favors (who is one of my favorite players) is expendable & they need to find a way to move him one way or another.

I mean yeah, you would be looking to add help. I just thought the jazz were really close to the tax line, I get Conley doesn’t get some crazy contract but he will sign for something. Not to mention the jazz could use some more help.

I was thinking along the lines of the jazz dumping Davis and Bradley last offseason, figured favors was the most likely to go.

CAE15 · Post #168 » by **CAE15** » Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:16 am

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
Gert42 wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
I think the right team will find value in Favs.

I just don't see it. A team may value what Favors has to offer, but not enough to trade something of real value to bring him in. Guys like Favors get signed to 1 year deals between every 4-6 million every off-season. Some team would have to be really enamored with him.

I really have a hard time trying to figure out what kind of value Bogey & or Ingles has in the trade market. They certainly would have interest, but who could we get back that would actually make the Jazz better based on they lose from trading them?

I've thrown it out there before, and am warming up to the idea even more myself since then- Bogey and #30 for Kuzma, McKennie and #22.
Kuzma was on the rise before AD came along, and he has better defense and athletism and size than Bogey. You'll probably lose some shooting, but hopefully the defense will offset and perhaps Kuzma could surprise on offense too. Bogey is also getting old.

With McKinnie, you either build depth or have the flexibility of unloading Oni or Thomas. Since all of them are NG, you could theoretically dump them all and I believe be under the luxury tax (until Conley is resigned) and have some flexiblity to sign other free agents in the BAE to MLE level.

#30 is going to be a decent pick this year, #22 gets you into a typical late lottery selection most years, IMO.

Lakers get the outside shooting they need and someone on the timeline of their win now mode.

Not sure that Ingles gets you more than he costs the Jazz. I would keep him, nice to have his skills.

Nah if Bogey is going to LA; where he would fit in beautifully. I want Kuzma, KCP and 22.

SoCalJazzFan · Post #169 » by **SoCalJazzFan** » Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:07 am

CAE15 wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:
Gert42 wrote:
I just don't see it. A team may value what Favors has to offer, but not enough to trade something of real value to bring him in. Guys like Favors get signed to 1 year deals between every 4-6 million every off-season. Some team would have to be really enamored with him.

I really have a hard time trying to figure out what kind of value Bogey & or Ingles has in the trade market. They certainly would have interest, but who could we get back that would actually make the Jazz better based on they lose from trading them?

I've thrown it out there before, and am warming up to the idea even more myself since then- Bogey and #30 for Kuzma, McKennie and #22.
Kuzma was on the rise before AD came along, and he has better defense and athletism and size than Bogey. You'll probably lose some shooting, but hopefully the defense will offset and perhaps Kuzma could surprise on offense too. Bogey is also getting old.

With McKinnie, you either build depth or have the flexibility of unloading Oni or Thomas. Since all of them are NG, you could theoretically dump them all and I believe be under the luxury tax (until Conley is resigned) and have some flexiblity to sign other free agents in the BAE to MLE level.

#30 is going to be a decent pick this year, #22 gets you into a typical late lottery selection most years, IMO.

Lakers get the outside shooting they need and someone on the timeline of their win now mode.

Not sure that Ingles gets you more than he costs the Jazz. I would keep him, nice to have his skills.
Nah if Bogey is going to LA; where he would fit in beautifully. I want Kuzma, KCP and 22.

KCP will cost you Ingles. Still want him? I don't.

Wolverine · Post #170 » by **Wolverine** » Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:18 am

So Dallas want Conley, what about sign & trade Mike & Favors for Porzingis?
We get bigger & a secondary rim protector & Dallas get the player they covet.

Post #171 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:01 am

I don't think Gobert and Porzingis can play together. I also don't think Gobert and Ben Simmons can play together.

Wolverine · Post #172 » by **Wolverine** » Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:20 am

Inigo Montoya wrote:I don't think Gobert and Porzingis can play together. I also don't think Gobert and Ben Simmons can play together.

Simmons would bolster our D and feed him in the paint better than Conley and Porzingis can shoot a bit and can address one of our biggest needs in a secondary defender

CAE15 · Post #173 » by **CAE15** » Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:30 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
CAE15 wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:I've thrown it out there before, and am warming up to the idea even more myself since then- Bogey and #30 for Kuzma, McKennie and #22.
Kuzma was on the rise before AD came along, and he has better defense and athletism and size than Bogey. You'll probably lose some shooting, but hopefully the defense will offset and perhaps Kuzma could surprise on offense too. Bogey is also getting old.

With McKinnie, you either build depth or have the flexibility of unloading Oni or Thomas. Since all of them are NG, you could theoretically dump them all and I believe be under the luxury tax (until Conley is resigned) and have some flexiblity to sign other free agents in the BAE to MLE level.

#30 is going to be a decent pick this year, #22 gets you into a typical late lottery selection most years, IMO.

Lakers get the outside shooting they need and someone on the timeline of their win now mode.

Not sure that Ingles gets you more than he costs the Jazz. I would keep him, nice to have his skills.
Nah if Bogey is going to LA; where he would fit in beautifully. I want Kuzma, KCP and 22.

KCP will cost you Ingles. Still want him? I don't.

I'm not so sure that's true.

AingesBurner · Post #174 » by **AingesBurner** » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:06 pm

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946155-bs-meter-on-latest-nba-trade-draft-free-agency-rumors

sip · Post #175 » by **sip** » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:20 pm

GobertReport wrote:https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946155-bs-meter-on-latest-nba-trade-draft-free-agency-rumors

It would be incredible if the front office was really willing to shake things up with Ingles and Bojan possibly being moved. I will believe it when I see it though. With Lindsey gone there is at least a small chance of that happening.

AingesBurner · Post #176 » by **AingesBurner** » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:25 pm

sip wrote:
GobertReport wrote:https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946155-bs-meter-on-latest-nba-trade-draft-free-agency-rumors

It would be incredible if the front office was really willing to shake things up with Ingles and Bojan possibly being moved. I will believe it when I see it though. With Lindsey gone there is at least a small chance of that happening.

For sure. Maybe that’s why we haven’t heard much about the Jazz draft workouts…

babyjax13 · Post #177 » by **babyjax13** » Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:57 am

Utah trades: Derrick Favors, Udoka Azubuike, Miye Oni, Matt Thomas, protections removed from 2022 1st, 2024 UTA 1st (1-14 protected, 2 2nds)
Utah receives: Spencer Dinwiddie, 2022 CHA 2nd (protected 56-60), 2023 BOS 2nd

Utah replaces Conley with a guard that can still act as a third option. It's not the perfect solution for Utah (I think Derrick White would be better, for example) but it is probably the least costly because they retain Bojan, Ingles, and O'neale (all who seem to be possible trade options) for a possible consolidation deal. This trade is made possible by Memphis owning our protected 2022 1st, and the way I see it is it works out to us trading our backup center, 2 non-rotation players (Dok/Thomas), and a nice but not amazing prospect + a future lateish 1st for our starting guard. We at least recoup some future 2nds to try and find rotation players in the draft.

Brooklyn trades: Spencer Dinwiddie, 2023 2nd (least favorable of ATL/PHI/BRK), 2024 BRK 2nd
Brooklyn receives: TPE
Get the TPE.

Charlotte trades: 2022 CHA 2nd (protected 56-60), 2023 BOS 2nd
Charlotte receives: Udoka Azubuike
Get a young center recently drafted in the first round whose positive attributes are elite athleticism and rim-protection. Could be really fun with Ball.

Memphis trades: cap space, fake 2nd
Memphis receives: Derrick Favors, Miye Oni, Matt Thomas 2022 UTA 1st (protections removed), 2024 UTA 1st (1-14 protected, 2 2nds), 2023 2nd (least favorable of ATL/PHI/BRK), 2024 BRK 2nd
Memphis sees the downgrade from Conley to Dinwiddie and bets on Utah possibly missing the playoffs in 2022 + gets another first and some 2nds.

red4hf · Post #178 » by **red4hf** » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:21 pm

babyjax13 wrote:Utah trades: Derrick Favors, Udoka Azubuike, Miye Oni, Matt Thomas, protections removed from 2022 1st, 2024 UTA 1st (1-14 protected, 2 2nds)
Utah receives: Spencer Dinwiddie, 2022 CHA 2nd (protected 56-60), 2023 BOS 2nd

Utah replaces Conley with a guard that can still act as a third option. It's not the perfect solution for Utah (I think Derrick White would be better, for example) but it is probably the least costly because they retain Bojan, Ingles, and O'neale (all who seem to be possible trade options) for a possible consolidation deal. This trade is made possible by Memphis owning our protected 2022 1st, and the way I see it is it works out to us trading our backup center, 2 non-rotation players (Dok/Thomas), and a nice but not amazing prospect + a future lateish 1st for our starting guard. We at least recoup some future 2nds to try and find rotation players in the draft.

Brooklyn trades: Spencer Dinwiddie, 2023 2nd (least favorable of ATL/PHI/BRK), 2024 BRK 2nd
Brooklyn receives: TPE
Get the TPE.

Charlotte trades: 2022 CHA 2nd (protected 56-60), 2023 BOS 2nd
Charlotte receives: Udoka Azubuike
Get a young center recently drafted in the first round whose positive attributes are elite athleticism and rim-protection. Could be really fun with Ball.

Memphis trades: cap space, fake 2nd
Memphis receives: Derrick Favors, Miye Oni, Matt Thomas 2022 UTA 1st (protections removed), 2024 UTA 1st (1-14 protected, 2 2nds), 2023 2nd (least favorable of ATL/PHI/BRK), 2024 BRK 2nd
Memphis sees the downgrade from Conley to Dinwiddie and bets on Utah possibly missing the playoffs in 2022 + gets another first and some 2nds.

Isn't Dinwiddie a free agent? How much is he getting in this sign and trade?

babyjax13 · Post #179 » by **babyjax13** » Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:14 pm

red4hf wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Utah trades: Derrick Favors, Udoka Azubuike, Miye Oni, Matt Thomas, protections removed from 2022 1st, 2024 UTA 1st (1-14 protected, 2 2nds)
Utah receives: Spencer Dinwiddie, 2022 CHA 2nd (protected 56-60), 2023 BOS 2nd

Utah replaces Conley with a guard that can still act as a third option. It's not the perfect solution for Utah (I think Derrick White would be better, for example) but it is probably the least costly because they retain Bojan, Ingles, and O'neale (all who seem to be possible trade options) for a possible consolidation deal. This trade is made possible by Memphis owning our protected 2022 1st, and the way I see it is it works out to us trading our backup center, 2 non-rotation players (Dok/Thomas), and a nice but not amazing prospect + a future lateish 1st for our starting guard. We at least recoup some future 2nds to try and find rotation players in the draft.

Brooklyn trades: Spencer Dinwiddie, 2023 2nd (least favorable of ATL/PHI/BRK), 2024 BRK 2nd
Brooklyn receives: TPE
Get the TPE.

Charlotte trades: 2022 CHA 2nd (protected 56-60), 2023 BOS 2nd
Charlotte receives: Udoka Azubuike
Get a young center recently drafted in the first round whose positive attributes are elite athleticism and rim-protection. Could be really fun with Ball.

Memphis trades: cap space, fake 2nd
Memphis receives: Derrick Favors, Miye Oni, Matt Thomas 2022 UTA 1st (protections removed), 2024 UTA 1st (1-14 protected, 2 2nds), 2023 2nd (least favorable of ATL/PHI/BRK), 2024 BRK 2nd
Memphis sees the downgrade from Conley to Dinwiddie and bets on Utah possibly missing the playoffs in 2022 + gets another first and some 2nds.

Isn't Dinwiddie a free agent? How much is he getting in this sign and trade?

I figured 15-18 million.

AingesBurner · Post #180 » by **AingesBurner** » Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:02 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
red4hf wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Utah trades: Derrick Favors, Udoka Azubuike, Miye Oni, Matt Thomas, protections removed from 2022 1st, 2024 UTA 1st (1-14 protected, 2 2nds)
Utah receives: Spencer Dinwiddie, 2022 CHA 2nd (protected 56-60), 2023 BOS 2nd

Utah replaces Conley with a guard that can still act as a third option. It's not the perfect solution for Utah (I think Derrick White would be better, for example) but it is probably the least costly because they retain Bojan, Ingles, and O'neale (all who seem to be possible trade options) for a possible consolidation deal. This trade is made possible by Memphis owning our protected 2022 1st, and the way I see it is it works out to us trading our backup center, 2 non-rotation players (Dok/Thomas), and a nice but not amazing prospect + a future lateish 1st for our starting guard. We at least recoup some future 2nds to try and find rotation players in the draft.

Brooklyn trades: Spencer Dinwiddie, 2023 2nd (least favorable of ATL/PHI/BRK), 2024 BRK 2nd
Brooklyn receives: TPE
Get the TPE.

Charlotte trades: 2022 CHA 2nd (protected 56-60), 2023 BOS 2nd
Charlotte receives: Udoka Azubuike
Get a young center recently drafted in the first round whose positive attributes are elite athleticism and rim-protection. Could be really fun with Ball.

Memphis trades: cap space, fake 2nd
Memphis receives: Derrick Favors, Miye Oni, Matt Thomas 2022 UTA 1st (protections removed), 2024 UTA 1st (1-14 protected, 2 2nds), 2023 2nd (least favorable of ATL/PHI/BRK), 2024 BRK 2nd
Memphis sees the downgrade from Conley to Dinwiddie and bets on Utah possibly missing the playoffs in 2022 + gets another first and some 2nds.

Isn't Dinwiddie a free agent? How much is he getting in this sign and trade?

I figured 15-18 million.

I thought the same thing and he’s 6’5”, we get rid of our small backcourt.