2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[Barkley6]

While that's true, there are a number of future moves to be made to lower that hit.
1. This is speculative because the biggest factor, Paul, doesn't have a firm number attached to him yet. If he opted in and then re-signed for 2 years $45 million, that would be about $8m less in salary (I'm too lazy to do the luxury tax math right now)

2. After next season, Saric, Crowder and especially Carter become significantly easier to move as expiring contracts. If Stix and CamJo have progressed well enough at that point, we might sell low on those two and just open up salary cap space. That would free up an additional $24m. In essence, if we moved all three of them a year early, that would wipe out the $68m of the luxury tax the article mentions for 22-23.

3. You could sign guys for 2 years under the MLE (and obviously have to under the BAE) so that they'd be expiring the same time that Crowder, Carter and Saric are. Then you'd have 5 expiring deals (worth aprox. $37m) that will either come off the books the following year, or could be used in a trade for either picks, cash, or possibly to package with Bridges to get a star, depending on where the team stands both basketball wise and financially.

4. You re-sign Bridges now at $18m/per, and if you desperately need to make a move later because of financial issues, you can do so. But you're securing his long term trade value by signing that extension, because if we trade him now, or don't sign him to an extension you're going to get little to nothing for him. (Remember, we traded Jared freaking Dudley to get Eric Bledsoe because he hadn't signed an extension and was going into RFA).

The point being here, that while yeah a near $100m luxury tax bill sounds scary, we have a ton of time to figure out how to reduce that to a much more manageable number while still keeping the core of our team together, AND adding new pieces. Additionally, after the Finals run, revenues are through the roof, I'm sure season tickets will sell out, merchandise is flying off the shelves, etc. So you might look at the numbers and say, yeah, it sucks to take pay a $100m tax,....BUT if we continue to win and sell ourselves as a team, we can make that money back and more...then maybe it's not such a crazy thing to expect Sarver to do.

Yeah, no way Sarver/Jones/Monty view a MLE guy, Crowder and Saric more than Bridges, so like I've said, MLE guy is likely only one year...and then we can trade Crowder and/or Saric before those contracts kick in if Sarver doesn't want a big bill.

We still have a lot of depth, especially if Smith contributes. So we sign a cheap big and a one year MLE guy...then we have a bench of the Cams or at least one Cam, Nader and/or Craig, Smith, a rookie this year, Saric (after next year), a cheap big this next year and then the emergency guys after that.

We will have a tax bill for one year, and it will not be nearly what he is saying. But I imagine we will make the most we have made in over a decade the next couple of years in ticket sales and concessions, so a tax bill one or two years will not be a big deal.

Sarver can sell more ownership stakes too for money since the team value probably went way up while maintaining a similar dollar share with a lower percentage of ownership.

1 or 2 years for an MLE guy, I think if you go into the 22-23 offseason with a bunch of expiring deals you can find ways to move off those guys, particularly if you feel like your window is closed/closing.

Lastly, I don't know when luxury tax calculations/payments are made. If you move some guys on like at the deadline, does that affect your cap number?

[bwgood77]

While that's true, there are a number of future moves to be made to lower that hit.
1. This is speculative because the biggest factor, Paul, doesn't have a firm number attached to him yet. If he opted in and then re-signed for 2 years $45 million, that would be about $8m less in salary (I'm too lazy to do the luxury tax math right now)

2. After next season, Saric, Crowder and especially Carter become significantly easier to move as expiring contracts. If Stix and CamJo have progressed well enough at that point, we might sell low on those two and just open up salary cap space. That would free up an additional $24m. In essence, if we moved all three of them a year early, that would wipe out the $68m of the luxury tax the article mentions for 22-23.

3. You could sign guys for 2 years under the MLE (and obviously have to under the BAE) so that they'd be expiring the same time that Crowder, Carter and Saric are. Then you'd have 5 expiring deals (worth aprox. $37m) that will either come off the books the following year, or could be used in a trade for either picks, cash, or possibly to package with Bridges to get a star, depending on where the team stands both basketball wise and financially.

4. You re-sign Bridges now at $18m/per, and if you desperately need to make a move later because of financial issues, you can do so. But you're securing his long term trade value by signing that extension, because if we trade him now, or don't sign him to an extension you're going to get little to nothing for him. (Remember, we traded Jared freaking Dudley to get Eric Bledsoe because he hadn't signed an extension and was going into RFA).

The point being here, that while yeah a near $100m luxury tax bill sounds scary, we have a ton of time to figure out how to reduce that to a much more manageable number while still keeping the core of our team together, AND adding new pieces. Additionally, after the Finals run, revenues are through the roof, I'm sure season tickets will sell out, merchandise is flying off the shelves, etc. So you might look at the numbers and say, yeah, it sucks to take pay a $100m tax,....BUT if we continue to win and sell ourselves as a team, we can make that money back and more...then maybe it's not such a crazy thing to expect Sarver to do.

Yeah, no way Sarver/Jones/Monty view a MLE guy, Crowder and Saric more than Bridges, so like I've said, MLE guy is likely only one year...and then we can trade Crowder and/or Saric before those contracts kick in if Sarver doesn't want a big bill.

We still have a lot of depth, especially if Smith contributes. So we sign a cheap big and a one year MLE guy...then we have a bench of the Cams or at least one Cam, Nader and/or Craig, Smith, a rookie this year, Saric (after next year), a cheap big this next year and then the emergency guys after that.

We will have a tax bill for one year, and it will not be nearly what he is saying. But I imagine we will make the most we have made in over a decade the next couple of years in ticket sales and concessions, so a tax bill one or two years will not be a big deal.

Sarver can sell more ownership stakes too for money since the team value probably went way up while maintaining a similar dollar share with a lower percentage of ownership.

1 or 2 years for an MLE guy, I think if you go into the 22-23 offseason with a bunch of expiring deals you can find ways to move off those guys, particularly if you feel like your window is closed/closing.

Lastly, I don't know when luxury tax calculations/payments are made. If you move some guys on like at the deadline, does that affect your cap number?

Yeah, you can move them during the season...GS did that. Anyway, we have over a year to think about it and pre plan...sign MLE to only one year, trade Saric and/or Crowder, etc. All these are way more probable than moving Bridges. Not sure why people think they'd rather have a MLE guy, Saric and Crowder for a year or two over Bridges long term.

[BobbieL]

While that's true, there are a number of future moves to be made to lower that hit.
1. This is speculative because the biggest factor, Paul, doesn't have a firm number attached to him yet. If he opted in and then re-signed for 2 years $45 million, that would be about $8m less in salary (I'm too lazy to do the luxury tax math right now)

2. After next season, Saric, Crowder and especially Carter become significantly easier to move as expiring contracts. If Stix and CamJo have progressed well enough at that point, we might sell low on those two and just open up salary cap space. That would free up an additional $24m. In essence, if we moved all three of them a year early, that would wipe out the $68m of the luxury tax the article mentions for 22-23.

3. You could sign guys for 2 years under the MLE (and obviously have to under the BAE) so that they'd be expiring the same time that Crowder, Carter and Saric are. Then you'd have 5 expiring deals (worth aprox. $37m) that will either come off the books the following year, or could be used in a trade for either picks, cash, or possibly to package with Bridges to get a star, depending on where the team stands both basketball wise and financially.

4. You re-sign Bridges now at $18m/per, and if you desperately need to make a move later because of financial issues, you can do so. But you're securing his long term trade value by signing that extension, because if we trade him now, or don't sign him to an extension you're going to get little to nothing for him. (Remember, we traded Jared freaking Dudley to get Eric Bledsoe because he hadn't signed an extension and was going into RFA).

The point being here, that while yeah a near $100m luxury tax bill sounds scary, we have a ton of time to figure out how to reduce that to a much more manageable number while still keeping the core of our team together, AND adding new pieces. Additionally, after the Finals run, revenues are through the roof, I'm sure season tickets will sell out, merchandise is flying off the shelves, etc. So you might look at the numbers and say, yeah, it sucks to take pay a $100m tax,....BUT if we continue to win and sell ourselves as a team, we can make that money back and more...then maybe it's not such a crazy thing to expect Sarver to do.

Yeah, no way Sarver/Jones/Monty view a MLE guy, Crowder and Saric more than Bridges, so like I've said, MLE guy is likely only one year...and then we can trade Crowder and/or Saric before those contracts kick in if Sarver doesn't want a big bill.

We still have a lot of depth, especially if Smith contributes. So we sign a cheap big and a one year MLE guy...then we have a bench of the Cams or at least one Cam, Nader and/or Craig, Smith, a rookie this year, Saric (after next year), a cheap big this next year and then the emergency guys after that.

We will have a tax bill for one year, and it will not be nearly what he is saying. But I imagine we will make the most we have made in over a decade the next couple of years in ticket sales and concessions, so a tax bill one or two years will not be a big deal.

Sarver can sell more ownership stakes too for money since the team value probably went way up while maintaining a similar dollar share with a lower percentage of ownership.

1 or 2 years for an MLE guy, I think if you go into the 22-23 offseason with a bunch of expiring deals you can find ways to move off those guys, particularly if you feel like your window is closed/closing.

Lastly, I don't know when luxury tax calculations/payments are made. If you move some guys on like at the deadline, does that affect your cap number?

And to the point above when it comes to signing say Cameron Payne. For me, Bridges is still a longer term priority over Cam Payne. So, if Sarver is truly thinking ahead (unlike years past when he obviously wasnt) - if he doesn't sign say Cam Payne to a longer deal, or even Torrey Craig (though the BAE is only two years and not much money) - maybe these are the long term salary decisions made this year for future years.

Granted the MLE might not be worth much in lux tax world but if you move off of Carter this year - thats $12m I guess.

[bwgood77]

Yeah, no way Sarver/Jones/Monty view a MLE guy, Crowder and Saric more than Bridges, so like I've said, MLE guy is likely only one year...and then we can trade Crowder and/or Saric before those contracts kick in if Sarver doesn't want a big bill.

We still have a lot of depth, especially if Smith contributes. So we sign a cheap big and a one year MLE guy...then we have a bench of the Cams or at least one Cam, Nader and/or Craig, Smith, a rookie this year, Saric (after next year), a cheap big this next year and then the emergency guys after that.

We will have a tax bill for one year, and it will not be nearly what he is saying. But I imagine we will make the most we have made in over a decade the next couple of years in ticket sales and concessions, so a tax bill one or two years will not be a big deal.

Sarver can sell more ownership stakes too for money since the team value probably went way up while maintaining a similar dollar share with a lower percentage of ownership.

1 or 2 years for an MLE guy, I think if you go into the 22-23 offseason with a bunch of expiring deals you can find ways to move off those guys, particularly if you feel like your window is closed/closing.

Lastly, I don't know when luxury tax calculations/payments are made. If you move some guys on like at the deadline, does that affect your cap number?

And to the point above when it comes to signing say Cameron Payne. For me, Bridges is still a longer term priority over Cam Payne. So, if Sarver is truly thinking ahead (unlike years past when he obviously wasnt) - if he doesn't sign say Cam Payne to a longer deal, or even Torrey Craig (though the BAE is only two years and not much money) - maybe these are the long term salary decisions made this year for future years.

Granted the MLE might not be worth much in lux tax world but if you move off of Carter this year - thats $12m I guess.

Yeah, not sure you read my last post but it seems the assumption made by Slim is that Payne, Saric, Crowder a MLE guy, etc, are all more important to the decision makers than Bridges.

[Slim Charless]

Yeah, no way Sarver/Jones/Monty view a MLE guy, Crowder and Saric more than Bridges, so like I've said, MLE guy is likely only one year...and then we can trade Crowder and/or Saric before those contracts kick in if Sarver doesn't want a big bill.

We still have a lot of depth, especially if Smith contributes. So we sign a cheap big and a one year MLE guy...then we have a bench of the Cams or at least one Cam, Nader and/or Craig, Smith, a rookie this year, Saric (after next year), a cheap big this next year and then the emergency guys after that.

We will have a tax bill for one year, and it will not be nearly what he is saying. But I imagine we will make the most we have made in over a decade the next couple of years in ticket sales and concessions, so a tax bill one or two years will not be a big deal.

Sarver can sell more ownership stakes too for money since the team value probably went way up while maintaining a similar dollar share with a lower percentage of ownership.

1 or 2 years for an MLE guy, I think if you go into the 22-23 offseason with a bunch of expiring deals you can find ways to move off those guys, particularly if you feel like your window is closed/closing.

Lastly, I don't know when luxury tax calculations/payments are made. If you move some guys on like at the deadline, does that affect your cap number?

Yeah, you can move them during the season...GS did that. Anyway, we have over a year to think about it and pre plan...sign MLE to only one year, trade Saric and/or Crowder, etc. All these are way more probable than moving Bridges. Not sure why people think they'd rather have a MLE guy, Saric and Crowder for a year or two over Bridges long term.

I really don't wanna trade Mikal as much as I bring it up. Also, the cap is gonna rise I think expansion when it happens-and it will. That's gonna increase the available money for owners so that's gotta help. I mean but what were we talking about in this very forum like 2 yrs ago? Sarver being a cheap and crappy owner.

I honestly hope I'm wrong here. I want to see us signing Mikal, DA and Payne to new deals next month along with our CP3 extension.

[BobbieL]

1 or 2 years for an MLE guy, I think if you go into the 22-23 offseason with a bunch of expiring deals you can find ways to move off those guys, particularly if you feel like your window is closed/closing.

Lastly, I don't know when luxury tax calculations/payments are made. If you move some guys on like at the deadline, does that affect your cap number?

And to the point above when it comes to signing say Cameron Payne. For me, Bridges is still a longer term priority over Cam Payne. So, if Sarver is truly thinking ahead (unlike years past when he obviously wasnt) - if he doesn't sign say Cam Payne to a longer deal, or even Torrey Craig (though the BAE is only two years and not much money) - maybe these are the long term salary decisions made this year for future years.

Granted the MLE might not be worth much in lux tax world but if you move off of Carter this year - thats $12m I guess.

Yeah, not sure you read my last post but it seems the assumption made by Slim is that Payne, Saric, Crowder a MLE guy, etc, are all more important to the decision makers than Bridges.

I think I was responding when you had posted or just had posted. Of those names - Mikal Bridges to me is not only the first priority but also the second and third.

So if this offseason the Suns bring back Paul and extend Bridges and Ayton but do not use the MLE or limit the dollars of the MLE - I can understand it longer term.

[Slim Charless]

Also, I do like Crowder. I like his vet leadership and truly believe that he was HUGE for the lockerroom this yr. I love the fact the he seems to be one of the few guys in the league that isn't scared of Lebron and kinda gets under Lebron's skin too.

I obviously value Mikal above him, but don't discount what Jae brings to this team.

[bwgood77]

And to the point above when it comes to signing say Cameron Payne. For me, Bridges is still a longer term priority over Cam Payne. So, if Sarver is truly thinking ahead (unlike years past when he obviously wasnt) - if he doesn't sign say Cam Payne to a longer deal, or even Torrey Craig (though the BAE is only two years and not much money) - maybe these are the long term salary decisions made this year for future years.

Granted the MLE might not be worth much in lux tax world but if you move off of Carter this year - thats $12m I guess.

Yeah, not sure you read my last post but it seems the assumption made by Slim is that Payne, Saric, Crowder a MLE guy, etc, are all more important to the decision makers than Bridges.

I think I was responding when you had posted or just had posted. Of those names - Mikal Bridges to me is not only the first priority but also the second and third.

So if this offseason the Suns bring back Paul and extend Bridges and Ayton but do not use the MLE or limit the dollars of the MLE - I can understand it longer term.

I think the can use the MLE and stay under the tax, even signing Payne. It might depend on how much Payne gets, if they use full MLE and if the disabled money available under Saric counts against the cap.

[Barkley6]

Also, I do like Crowder. I like his vet leadership and truly believe that he was HUGE for the lockerroom this yr. I love the fact the he seems to be one of the few guys in the league that isn't scared of Lebron and kinda gets under Lebron's skin too.

I obviously value Mikal above him, but don't discount what Jae brings to this team.

I think the idea with Jae was he was brought in for exactly what you describe, but with the idea that Cam Johnson is going to take on more of that stretch 4 role as time goes on and Crowder gets older.

[SunsLyf3]

Marvin Bagley?

Still has untapped potential and great size. Could thrive with a simplified role.

JJ doesn't target whinny little piss ants.

We don't need a whinner who chucks a tantrum when he doesn't get his own way. Epitome of a millennial.

To be fair, he plays for the most disfunctional FO in the entire NBA.

[RunDogGun]

Looks like some of the major FAs still want to go to the Lakers.

[RunDogGun]

I wouldn't mind taking on Bagley. One thing Monty has been great at, is creating a solid culture. Maybe it is the system that was hindering Bagley?

[thamadkant]

Easy off season for me.

Sign a back up big who can jump higher than 6 inches so Kaminsky isn't playing at all.

Get Jalen Smith minutes early and have him play next to Ayton as well as back him up early. I understand not playing a rookie big man while contending... But he was drafted for the exact reasons why suns lost to bucks... Lack of size upfront. James Jones drafted him to help against the Lakers and I think Jones see his value.
We cannot give up on someone who didn't get minutes purely because he was not ready to contribute on a contender.


Offer Chris Paul an extension. If he doesn't sign then go for Lowry.
Another option is maybe sign and trade CP3 to Lakers for Schroeder and Kuzma. Then sign Cam Payne. Kuzma backs up Crowder, and Craig as third string C, PF and SF... So he still gets 12 minutes a game.

Keep the system but develop the core, integrate Jalen Smith and get a legit backup big who can protect the paint when Ayton rest.

[thamadkant]

Suns young core are Booker, Ayton, Bridges. Hopefully Cam Johnson and Jalen Smith become second tier core also. Cam Johnson is 25 years old so he is near his prime years so he is what he is... With mire shots and minutes he can be a solid 15ppg player.

[Barkley6]

Easy off season for me.

Sign a back up big who can jump higher than 6 inches so Kaminsky isn't playing at all.

Get Jalen Smith minutes early and have him play next to Ayton as well as back him up early. I understand not playing a rookie big man while contending... But he was drafted for the exact reasons why suns lost to bucks... Lack of size upfront. James Jones drafted him to help against the Lakers and I think Jones see his value.
We cannot give up on someone who didn't get minutes purely because he was not ready to contribute on a contender.


Offer Chris Paul an extension. If he doesn't sign then go for Lowry.
Another option is maybe sign and trade CP3 to Lakers for Schroeder and Kuzma. Then sign Cam Payne. Kuzma backs up Crowder, and Craig as third string C, PF and SF... So he still gets 12 minutes a game.

Keep the system but develop the core, integrate Jalen Smith and get a legit backup big who can protect the paint when Ayton rest.

Lakers can't do this. They would become hard capped with only 8 players on the roster. 7 if Kuzma is part of the deal. Even if CP3 was willing to take, say, $25 million, they would be hard capped after spending another $14m to fill 8 spots on their roster. Which means essentially minimum deals, so no extension for THT, Caruso walks, Morris walks, Drummond walks.

There is no way the Lakers can acquire a player in a S&T and still have a complete roster because of their salary structure.

[saintEscaton]

Suns young core are Booker, Ayton, Bridges. Hopefully Cam Johnson and Jalen Smith become second tier core also. Cam Johnson is 25 years old so he is near his prime years so he is what he is... With mire shots and minutes he can be a solid 15ppg player.

Hopefully we can get a steal with the 29th pick this coming 29th hehe

[Slim Charless]

The Suns will have to make a decision in the future on Cam Johnson in two years. But I think Sarver should be okay from the luxury tax - meaning a multiple payer - in two years as Carter, Saric and Crowder will be off the books. I think its really the 2022-2023 season potentially that can be expensive for Sarver as the Ayton extension will kick in - probably Bridges too.

Holy **** lol. From the article if we resign Payne, CP3 and extend DA and Bridges. Along with grabbing a vet or 2(not expensive ones). This is the number they're throwing around:

This projection would give the Suns a $97 million luxury tax payment and $270 million in combined payroll and tax payments.

https://hoopshype.com/lists/suns-offseason-preview-salaries-chris-paul-2021-22/

Bridges is gone fellas. There's no way on God's Green Earth that Sarver is forking over 100M in luxury tax.

While that's true, there are a number of future moves to be made to lower that hit.
1. This is speculative because the biggest factor, Paul, doesn't have a firm number attached to him yet. If he opted in and then re-signed for 2 years $45 million, that would be about $8m less in salary (I'm too lazy to do the luxury tax math right now)

2. After next season, Saric, Crowder and especially Carter become significantly easier to move as expiring contracts. If Stix and CamJo have progressed well enough at that point, we might sell low on those two and just open up salary cap space. That would free up an additional $24m. In essence, if we moved all three of them a year early, that would wipe out the $68m of the luxury tax the article mentions for 22-23.

3. You could sign guys for 2 years under the MLE (and obviously have to under the BAE) so that they'd be expiring the same time that Crowder, Carter and Saric are. Then you'd have 5 expiring deals (worth aprox. $37m) that will either come off the books the following year, or could be used in a trade for either picks, cash, or possibly to package with Bridges to get a star, depending on where the team stands both basketball wise and financially.

4. You re-sign Bridges now at $18m/per, and if you desperately need to make a move later because of financial issues, you can do so. But you're securing his long term trade value by signing that extension, because if we trade him now, or don't sign him to an extension you're going to get little to nothing for him. (Remember, we traded Jared freaking Dudley to get Eric Bledsoe because he hadn't signed an extension and was going into RFA).

The point being here, that while yeah a near $100m luxury tax bill sounds scary, we have a ton of time to figure out how to reduce that to a much more manageable number while still keeping the core of our team together, AND adding new pieces. Additionally, after the Finals run, revenues are through the roof, I'm sure season tickets will sell out, merchandise is flying off the shelves, etc. So you might look at the numbers and say, yeah, it sucks to take pay a $100m tax,....BUT if we continue to win and sell ourselves as a team, we can make that money back and more...then maybe it's not such a crazy thing to expect Sarver to do.

I think expecting CP3 to opt in just isn't gonna happen. Who knows what's gonna happen in the future. Chris can secure himself another guaranteed 55M on top of his 45 that'd he'd get this season.

About the rest... you make some good points but I'm not sure if Bridges takes 18. That seems low. I'll be happy to get rid of Saric's dead weight. It's really too bad he got injured (for many reasons) I'd love to be able to have moved him this off-season.

Suns should have money coming in soon with the bonus of being a team in the finals.

[BobbieL]

Easy off season for me.

Sign a back up big who can jump higher than 6 inches so Kaminsky isn't playing at all.

Get Jalen Smith minutes early and have him play next to Ayton as well as back him up early. I understand not playing a rookie big man while contending... But he was drafted for the exact reasons why suns lost to bucks... Lack of size upfront. James Jones drafted him to help against the Lakers and I think Jones see his value.
We cannot give up on someone who didn't get minutes purely because he was not ready to contribute on a contender.


Offer Chris Paul an extension. If he doesn't sign then go for Lowry.
Another option is maybe sign and trade CP3 to Lakers for Schroeder and Kuzma. Then sign Cam Payne. Kuzma backs up Crowder, and Craig as third string C, PF and SF... So he still gets 12 minutes a game.

Keep the system but develop the core, integrate Jalen Smith and get a legit backup big who can protect the paint when Ayton rest.

Not sure how the Suns can afford Lowry - what would an S&T look like though?

I think the Suns would only have 20m of cap space if Paul opted out and didn't come back so probably cannot use the MLE if I know about "under the cap teams" and the MLE.

[RunDogGun]

It really comes down to what Chris wants. Does he want a ton more millions, yet waste away his chances to get to the finals again (I don't think the Suns get back there without upgrades all around our roster), or does he want to be on a team that he could take to the finals again. If its the latter, then he takes less to get the players we need to get there.

[BobbieL]

It really comes down to what Chris wants. Does he want a ton more millions, yet waste away his chances to get to the finals again (I don't think the Suns get back there without upgrades all around our roster), or does he want to be on a team that he could take to the finals again. If its the latter, then he takes less to get the players we need to get there.

Not one of those people that say players shouldn't take whatever they can get... that said - if he likes the team, he likes the direction - maybe there is something where he takes a good deal but allows the Suns exposure to the lux penalties lessened. I don't know what numbers that would be (3/85, 3/90)

Like BWG has said - it would almost be better he if opted in and took a "wink wink" deal next year