Re: Sexton Convo, Update PG: 15 - Knicks most aggressive suitor

[DrCoach]

We need sexton, we have nobody to go up against Kyrie and Trae. Hes built for NY

[N Y K]

So no news right? Paging up

[thebuzzardman]

I actually wouldn't mind Oubre. He's young, athletic. and I think he has potential to be better than what he is right now

I wouldn't mind Oubre, depending on price.

Obviously it would have to be after Sexton or whoever they get for PG.

The trouble with Oubre is that he prevents the team from getting another big time player, unless my calculations are wrong.

[thebuzzardman]

Oubre seems like a Scott Perry/Thibs choice.

Pure speculation. I have no idea what the other voices in the FO might think, nor do I actually know what Perry and Thibs are thinking.
Aller tends to value value players - so I think any feelings he'll have on Oubre that are strong have to do with $ and years.
Perrin is more college scouting - I'm sure he still gets a say.
Zanin is pro player scouting, so he'll definitely have an opinion/recommendation, but I have no idea if he favors certain kinds of players.

Thibs/Perry.
Thibs like defensive intensity and players that attack the rim. Oubre will do that. IF they think his 3 point shooting profiles upward based on 2nd half of last year, that might be something Thibs has locked in on.
Perry seems to be into finding value in players who may have started their trend upward. All his "2nd draft" guys were attempts to get cheap guys who just may be starting the upswing. Vonleh, Mudiay, Super Mario come to mind. THJr was all Mills, but that also was an attempt to get a player on the rise - which is why last player - Randle - is always a little up in the air as "Mills move" or "Perry move" or "Both move" Anyway, if Perry, then Oubre seems to be at a similar career junction, where he's mostly, but critically not completely, figured it out. Perry might think there is still upside to unlock where Oubre outperforms his contract.

Again, I like him enough as a player. I'm a bit cautious of his fit where the lineup is Point Guard X and then RJ and then Oubre.
I think it demands a level of internal development from RJ to start them together.
I wouldn't mind Oubre as a super 6th man backing up SF/SG and even a little PF, but why would he come to the Knicks for that?
This above scenario if somehow the Knicks have some super sneaky way to get him on the team but yet be able to free money for another big time player (unlikely) or they sign him to a 1 year deal (unlikely for Oubre to accept)

[thebuzzardman]

Question

This year, the statements out of the FO is that they need "Players who attack the rim and shooters"

Was the statement "Need to get taller and more athletic" the statement from the Leon Rose FO last year, or was that the year before with Perry\Mills\Thibs?

[KnixinSix]

Oubre seems like a Scott Perry/Thibs choice.

Pure speculation. I have no idea what the other voices in the FO might think, nor do I actually know what Perry and Thibs are thinking.
Aller tends to value value players - so I think any feelings he'll have on Oubre that are strong have to do with $ and years.
Perrin is more college scouting - I'm sure he still gets a say.
Zanin is pro player scouting, so he'll definitely have an opinion/recommendation, but I have no idea if he favors certain kinds of players.

Thibs/Perry.
Thibs like defensive intensity and players that attack the rim. Oubre will do that. IF they think his 3 point shooting profiles upward based on 2nd half of last year, that might be something Thibs has locked in on.
Perry seems to be into finding value in players who may have started their trend upward. All his "2nd draft" guys were attempts to get cheap guys who just may be starting the upswing. Vonleh, Mudiay, Super Mario come to mind. THJr was all Mills, but that also was an attempt to get a player on the rise - which is why last player - Randle - is always a little up in the air as "Mills move" or "Perry move" or "Both move" Anyway, if Perry, then Oubre seems to be at a similar career junction, where he's mostly, but critically not completely, figured it out. Perry might think there is still upside to unlock where Oubre outperforms his contract.

Again, I like him enough as a player. I'm a bit cautious of his fit where the lineup is Point Guard X and then RJ and then Oubre.
I think it demands a level of internal development from RJ to start them together.
I wouldn't mind Oubre as a super 6th man backing up SF/SG and even a little PF, but why would he come to the Knicks for that?
This above scenario if somehow the Knicks have some super sneaky way to get him on the team but yet be able to free money for another big time player (unlikely) or they sign him to a 1 year deal (unlikely for Oubre to accept)

Oubre and Lonzo seem to fit the mold of what they want. Length, plus defensive potential. In regards to Lonzo, 3 ball is pretty good and ball distribution is very good.

I still think Plan A though is Lillard, Kawhi. Lonzo, Oubre become possibilities if we trade for the 'cheaper' stars Sexton ,SGA etc. or only get one of the max guys instead of two.

[thebuzzardman]

Oubre seems like a Scott Perry/Thibs choice.

Pure speculation. I have no idea what the other voices in the FO might think, nor do I actually know what Perry and Thibs are thinking.
Aller tends to value value players - so I think any feelings he'll have on Oubre that are strong have to do with $ and years.
Perrin is more college scouting - I'm sure he still gets a say.
Zanin is pro player scouting, so he'll definitely have an opinion/recommendation, but I have no idea if he favors certain kinds of players.

Thibs/Perry.
Thibs like defensive intensity and players that attack the rim. Oubre will do that. IF they think his 3 point shooting profiles upward based on 2nd half of last year, that might be something Thibs has locked in on.
Perry seems to be into finding value in players who may have started their trend upward. All his "2nd draft" guys were attempts to get cheap guys who just may be starting the upswing. Vonleh, Mudiay, Super Mario come to mind. THJr was all Mills, but that also was an attempt to get a player on the rise - which is why last player - Randle - is always a little up in the air as "Mills move" or "Perry move" or "Both move" Anyway, if Perry, then Oubre seems to be at a similar career junction, where he's mostly, but critically not completely, figured it out. Perry might think there is still upside to unlock where Oubre outperforms his contract.

Again, I like him enough as a player. I'm a bit cautious of his fit where the lineup is Point Guard X and then RJ and then Oubre.
I think it demands a level of internal development from RJ to start them together.
I wouldn't mind Oubre as a super 6th man backing up SF/SG and even a little PF, but why would he come to the Knicks for that?
This above scenario if somehow the Knicks have some super sneaky way to get him on the team but yet be able to free money for another big time player (unlikely) or they sign him to a 1 year deal (unlikely for Oubre to accept)

Oubre and Lonzo seem to fit the mold of what they want. Length, plus defensive potential. In regards to Lonzo, 3 ball is pretty good and ball distribution is very good.

I still think Plan A though is Lillard, Kawhi. Lonzo, Oubre become possibilities if we trade for the 'cheaper' stars Sexton ,SGA etc. or only get one of the max guys instead of two.

Yeah, I'm not sure what is up with Oubre.

There seems to be some noise/smoke he's heading to the Knicks. However, I'm not sure if most of that is around Oubre's "speaking tour" where he's talking to various reporters/youtube hosts, etc. Is he doing this in other cities with cap space? Is it a new age Chris Webber/Grant Hill thing, where you mention the Knicks because they have some cap space and it creates buzz? I have no idea.

I'd think Lonzo/Oubre is an either/or, since Knicks need a PG who actually heads into the paint, and that's not Lonzo. I mean, do I wish the Knicks could get Lonzo and they miraculously make him good at dribble penetration? Sure. But I don't think that's a solid approach.

[thebuzzardman]

There's something to be said in getting players like Sexton and Oubre who actually seem to WANT to play on the Knicks

[KnixinSix]

If we go the 'cheaper' route and somehow pull off Sexton, SGA and then Kawhi (at sub 40 mill) would be a pretty awesome haul.

You could then also have the money to sign Oubre. Kawhi believes his game at this point of his career is best served with good passers. SGA and Sexton would give him that so he wouldn't have to create everything on his own anymore.

[cgmw]

There's something to be said in getting players like Sexton and Oubre who actually seem to WANT to play on the Knicks

Where’d you see that?

[thebuzzardman]

I doubt this is the reason for the chatter, but if the Knicks were to put RJ into a trade, Oubre basically replaces (actually upgrades) what RJ is capable of NOW.

The downsides are that RJ may\probably will exceed what Oubre is doing now, as RJ is just starting year 3, while Oubre is starting, what, year 7? And the fact that RJ is making roughly 8 million for another year or two, while Oubre would be double that, if not a little more.
So, nothing I'm advocating, but interesting.

Also, in those interviews, the way the Knicks played defense and their game plan in general made a positive impression on Oubre - just pointing that out. His interest seems genuine.

[thebuzzardman]

There's something to be said in getting players like Sexton and Oubre who actually seem to WANT to play on the Knicks

Where’d you see that?

I can't find the link for Sexton, but someone indicated they saw something that said that both Obi and Sexton wouldn't mind changing locations.

Oubre's interest comes out in any of those interviews he's done.

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/kelly-oubre-discusses-knicks-feelings-nba-free-agency-desires

Those quotes could be cherry picked to make the interest seem larger than it is, but I think it indicates he'd like to join the team.

Ultimately, 99.9% of the time, the players just go to whoever pays them the most and the Knicks do have a lot of cap space, so that's probably his motivation.

[KnixinSix]

I doubt this is the reason for the chatter, but if the Knicks were to put RJ into a trade, Oubre basically replaces (actually upgrades) what RJ is capable of NOW.

The downsides are that RJ may\probably will exceed what Oubre is doing now, as RJ is just starting year 3, while Oubre is starting, what, year 7? And the fact that RJ is making roughly 8 million for another year or two, while Oubre would be double that, if not a little more.
So, nothing I'm advocating, but interesting.

Also, in those interviews, the way the Knicks played defense and their game plan in general made a positive impression on Oubre - just pointing that out. His interest seems genuine.

Yes Oubre really seems to be a Thibs type player. Knicks want those kind of guys even at the sacrifice of a little offense. And agreed on RJ. But he is our top asset in a trade especially for a Superstar. I wouldn't trade RJ for Sexton but I would for Lillard or SGA. Lillard might be the guy that gets Kawhi to us so thats basically a 2 for 1 deal right there. We'd have to trade every player making 4+ mill (Obi, Knox, RJ) and renounce almost all cap holds but wed still have Quickley for floor spacing and Mitch for rim defending. In the Lillard deal you give them ONE of this years picks and both of 2023 FRPs. We then use 19 and 32 and a 2023 2nd round pick to move up to 14 and take Murphy or Duarte. Floor spacers with length which is exactly what you want to surround superstars with.

Mitch/ Vet min
Randle/ MLE (combo PF/SF)
Kawhi / MLE (combo PF/SF- or would Oubre take the MLE?)
Quickley/Duarte
Lillard / Vildoza/Vet Min

[thebuzzardman]

I doubt this is the reason for the chatter, but if the Knicks were to put RJ into a trade, Oubre basically replaces (actually upgrades) what RJ is capable of NOW.

The downsides are that RJ may\probably will exceed what Oubre is doing now, as RJ is just starting year 3, while Oubre is starting, what, year 7? And the fact that RJ is making roughly 8 million for another year or two, while Oubre would be double that, if not a little more.
So, nothing I'm advocating, but interesting.

Also, in those interviews, the way the Knicks played defense and their game plan in general made a positive impression on Oubre - just pointing that out. His interest seems genuine.

Yes Oubre really seems to be a Thibs type player. Knicks want those kind of guys even at the sacrifice of a little offense. And agreed on RJ. But he is our top asset in a trade especially for a Superstar. I wouldn't trade RJ for Sexton but I would for Lillard or SGA. Lillard might be the guy that gets Kawhi to us so thats basically a 2 for 1 deal right there. We'd have to trade every player making 4+ mill (Obi, Knox, RJ) and renounce almost all cap holds but wed still have Quickley for floor spacing and Mitch for rim defending. In the Lillard deal you give them ONE of this years picks and both of 2023 FRPs. We then use 19 and 32 and a 2023 2nd round pick to move up to 14 and take Murphy or Duarte. Floor spacers with length which is exactly what you want to surround superstars with.

I don't like any of the scenarios that would get the Knicks Lillard, but I appreciate everyone who tries to gameplan them out.

[KnixinSix]

I doubt this is the reason for the chatter, but if the Knicks were to put RJ into a trade, Oubre basically replaces (actually upgrades) what RJ is capable of NOW.

The downsides are that RJ may\probably will exceed what Oubre is doing now, as RJ is just starting year 3, while Oubre is starting, what, year 7? And the fact that RJ is making roughly 8 million for another year or two, while Oubre would be double that, if not a little more.
So, nothing I'm advocating, but interesting.

Also, in those interviews, the way the Knicks played defense and their game plan in general made a positive impression on Oubre - just pointing that out. His interest seems genuine.

Yes Oubre really seems to be a Thibs type player. Knicks want those kind of guys even at the sacrifice of a little offense. And agreed on RJ. But he is our top asset in a trade especially for a Superstar. I wouldn't trade RJ for Sexton but I would for Lillard or SGA. Lillard might be the guy that gets Kawhi to us so thats basically a 2 for 1 deal right there. We'd have to trade every player making 4+ mill (Obi, Knox, RJ) and renounce almost all cap holds but wed still have Quickley for floor spacing and Mitch for rim defending. In the Lillard deal you give them ONE of this years picks and both of 2023 FRPs. We then use 19 and 32 and a 2023 2nd round pick to move up to 14 and take Murphy or Duarte. Floor spacers with length which is exactly what you want to surround superstars with.

I don't like any of the scenarios that would get the Knicks Lillard, but I appreciate everyone who tries to gameplan them out.

Could you warm up to the line up listed above?


Ok modified here below:

Mitch/ Vet min
Randle/ Vet Min
Kawhi / MLE (Oubre)
Quickley/MLE(Oubre)/(Duarte or Murphy or Sharif Cooper)
Lillard / Vildoza/Vet Min

-Oubre signs the MLE with the 'promise' we sign him to a nice contract going over the cap next year. Or if not we give it to D.Rose.

[thebuzzardman]

Yes Oubre really seems to be a Thibs type player. Knicks want those kind of guys even at the sacrifice of a little offense. And agreed on RJ. But he is our top asset in a trade especially for a Superstar. I wouldn't trade RJ for Sexton but I would for Lillard or SGA. Lillard might be the guy that gets Kawhi to us so thats basically a 2 for 1 deal right there. We'd have to trade every player making 4+ mill (Obi, Knox, RJ) and renounce almost all cap holds but wed still have Quickley for floor spacing and Mitch for rim defending. In the Lillard deal you give them ONE of this years picks and both of 2023 FRPs. We then use 19 and 32 and a 2023 2nd round pick to move up to 14 and take Murphy or Duarte. Floor spacers with length which is exactly what you want to surround superstars with.

I don't like any of the scenarios that would get the Knicks Lillard, but I appreciate everyone who tries to gameplan them out.

Could you warm up to the line up listed above?

I could possibly live with that

[KnixinSix]

I don't like any of the scenarios that would get the Knicks Lillard, but I appreciate everyone who tries to gameplan them out.

Could you warm up to the line up listed above?

I could possibly live with that

I mean that line up is right at the top in the East..Nets fully healthy may have a case but its not a slam dunk they'd beat us either.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Question

This year, the statements out of the FO is that they need "Players who attack the rim and shooters"

Was the statement "Need to get taller and more athletic" the statement from the Leon Rose FO last year, or was that the year before with Perry\Mills\Thibs?

Feels like they say that every year. Didn't Isiah always used to say that? So probably Mills since he was here forever

[thebuzzardman]

Last thought after my zillion posts.

Knicks need to address starting PG, or at the least PG depth for a "PG by committee"
Knicks also need a starting SG or SF, depending on where you want to play RJ

I'm not advocating for it, but Beal seems particularly close with WWW and now he's rumbling about draft day trade.
Something to watch out for.
Still think he goes to some other team, ultimately.

[KnixinSix]

Last thought after my zillion posts.

Knicks need to address starting PG, or at the least PG depth for a "PG by committee"
Knicks also need a starting SG or SF, depending on where you want to play RJ

I'm not advocating for it, but Beal seems particularly close with WWW and now he's rumbling about draft day trade.
Something to watch out for.
Still think he goes to some other team, ultimately.

While we've been heavily linked to other players Lillard, Kawhi, Sexton ,Oubre etc. not a peep about Beal (at least as of yet).

Hoping its because our top Plan is Lillard/Kawhi which would be flat out incredible.