The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition

Moderators: Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063, penbeast0, PaulieWal

Freighttrain
Analyst
Posts: 3,663
And1: 7,084
Joined: Aug 08, 2014
   

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#821 » by Freighttrain » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:18 pm

Greyhound wrote:
donnieme wrote:
Freighttrain wrote:
:lol: Did you even see Shröder on the Lakers? He's a terrible fit with LeBron with a poor attitude whenever things don't go his way. He put up donuts in the playoffs. I don't care how good he was defensively, which he was decent at, but I'd rather have the Caruso/KCP combination, so he wouldn't even have the starting position. With Westbrook, we get a guy that can feed lobs to AD at will, create shots for others, is a monster rebounder and his teammates love him, no matter what the fans or media claim. A Westbrook/AD pairing can win us games in the regular season whilst LeBron can finally load manage in the regular season for once. I also think he'll be motivated as hell if we were to match up with the Nets in the finals.

I don't know about his teammates loving him, Westbrook is about to have his 3rd superstar teammate skip town. One loss with him has stars feeling their careers won't go anywhere. The team casts aren't great but 2 mvps should never feel like a hopeless situation if the 2nd wasn't Westbrook. He probably isn't getting AD many lobs when teams are going under screens and doubling AD to dare him to shoot.

His defense is also bad most nights, AD will have his hands full rim protecting for a guard with this kind of effort. It's the Drummond signing all over again. He had a small iq improvement last season where he scaled back his scoring and kept to playmaking, often racking so many 20 assist nights but the player still isn't a winning package. Steer clear, Lebron is no longer young enough to compensate roster irregularities.

He is not ideal but I think he could work in a formation featuring LeBron at the PF and Davis at C.

He would essentially take the place of the non-shooting center that typically lines up alongside Anthony Davis. He can replicate the rebounding while also providing additional play making and ball handling. He will hinder the defense.

Hopefully Davis (playing center) will be able to reach his vast defensive potential and cover for that with a defensive player of the year type season.

———-

Westbrook tends to create a lot of looks for his centers on drop passes, so I do not think he will be as detrimental to Davis’s scoring as Schroder. He has also never played with a non PG ball handler as smart as LeBron. I can envision pick and roll sets between him and LeBron that can be utilized both ways.

For the record I prefer Lonzo.

That being said, Westbrook’s value lies in his ability to do things that will preserve LeBron for the postseason.

That holds plenty value at this stage in LeBron’s career.



He would not be my first choice, but in the event he is acquired, I am trying to look at his acquisition from a glass half full point of view.


Well said and agreed. That was basically my thought process as well, but more eloquently put :lol:
Greyhound
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,815
And1: 2,723
Joined: Jul 15, 2002
Location: Earth

The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#822 » by Greyhound » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:34 pm

homecourtloss wrote:Current Westbrook will not make the defense better, will not make the half-court offense better, will not make the transition offense better,


All of that is understood.

The question is can he do his thing well enough, and can he carry the Lakers offense respectably enough (in the first three quarters) to preserve LeBron for fourth quarters and the postseason?

Having a LeBron unburdened enough to go full force in fourth quarters and be relatively fresh for the postseason could be a game changer.



If done correctly, it could lead to a gaudy regular season record and a favorable postseason draw (along with a well preserved LeBron James).
Don't believe the hype...
Bergmaniac
General Manager
Posts: 7,570
And1: 11,344
Joined: Jan 08, 2010
 

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#823 » by Bergmaniac » Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:00 pm

I don't understand the Westbrook to Lakers talk with his current salary, it's totally not worth it for the Lakers. 3 players on a veteran max means there are barely any money left for the rest of the roster and Westbrook is nowhere near good enough right now to be worth putting the team in such a situation financially.
User avatar
LikeABosh
RealGM
Posts: 19,189
And1: 8,900
Joined: Jun 15, 2011
     

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#824 » by LikeABosh » Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:04 pm

Bergmaniac wrote:I don't understand the Westbrook to Lakers talk with his current salary, it's totally not worth it for the Lakers. 3 players on a veteran max means there are barely any money left for the rest of the roster and Westbrook is nowhere near good enough right now to be worth putting the team in such a situation financially.


They're already over the cap so as long they're not hard capped it doesn't really matter
trickshot
Head Coach
Posts: 6,840
And1: 7,542
Joined: Feb 27, 2012

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#825 » by trickshot » Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:18 pm

Greyhound wrote:
donnieme wrote:
Freighttrain wrote:
:lol: Did you even see Shröder on the Lakers? He's a terrible fit with LeBron with a poor attitude whenever things don't go his way. He put up donuts in the playoffs. I don't care how good he was defensively, which he was decent at, but I'd rather have the Caruso/KCP combination, so he wouldn't even have the starting position. With Westbrook, we get a guy that can feed lobs to AD at will, create shots for others, is a monster rebounder and his teammates love him, no matter what the fans or media claim. A Westbrook/AD pairing can win us games in the regular season whilst LeBron can finally load manage in the regular season for once. I also think he'll be motivated as hell if we were to match up with the Nets in the finals.

I don't know about his teammates loving him, Westbrook is about to have his 3rd superstar teammate skip town. One loss with him has stars feeling their careers won't go anywhere. The team casts aren't great but 2 mvps should never feel like a hopeless situation if the 2nd wasn't Westbrook. He probably isn't getting AD many lobs when teams are going under screens and doubling AD to dare him to shoot.

His defense is also bad most nights, AD will have his hands full rim protecting for a guard with this kind of effort. It's the Drummond signing all over again. He had a small iq improvement last season where he scaled back his scoring and kept to playmaking, often racking so many 20 assist nights but the player still isn't a winning package. Steer clear, Lebron is no longer young enough to compensate roster irregularities.

He is not ideal but I think he could work in a formation featuring LeBron at the PF and Davis at C.

He would essentially take the place of the non-shooting center that typically lines up alongside Anthony Davis. He can replicate the rebounding while also providing additional play making and ball handling. He will hinder the defense.

Hopefully Davis (playing center) will be able to reach his vast defensive potential and cover for that with a defensive player of the year type season.

———-

Westbrook tends to create a lot of looks for his centers on drop passes, so I do not think he will be as detrimental to Davis’s scoring as Schroder. He has also never played with a non PG ball handler as smart as LeBron. I can envision pick and roll sets between him and LeBron that can be utilized both ways.

For the record I prefer Lonzo.

That being said, Westbrook’s value lies in his ability to do things that will preserve LeBron for the postseason.

That holds plenty value at this stage in LeBron’s career.



He would not be my first choice, but in the event he is acquired, I am trying to look at his acquisition from a glass half full point of view.

Remember the Rockets, this was his role. They shipped out their center midseason to let Westbrook be the only non-shooting center figure on the floor. Actually worked out pretty well in the regular season then the formula got exposed in the playoffs against the Lakers. Now that I think about it Lakers were the last team to expose his limitations so they should know better. Turns out no matter who Westbrook shares the floor with teams will guard the others and prefer to make him a shooter. A Westbrook pullup, rushed layup or 3pointer is so much a no-brainer.

Great regular season filler, horrible postseason fodder. They are overthinking this. They need to get off the spreadsheets and find just any player that can punish the huge amount of real estate AD creates on picks with his gravity. Similar to how the Suns guards play with Ayton. It's just a pity Lebron is no longer blazing quick coming off the pick and roll.
thebigbird
General Manager
Posts: 7,581
And1: 20,493
Joined: Jul 11, 2018
 

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#826 » by thebigbird » Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:42 pm

Guys it’s not complicated. Westbrook is a bad fit on this team, just like he is on any team with championship aspirations on his current contract. Buddy Hield is the guy they should be targeting. 40% from 3 on 10 attempts a game last year. He fills their biggest gap - guard shooting. And (I don’t think) he wouldn’t hard cap them.
User avatar
Dupp
RealGM
Posts: 112,394
And1: 67,145
Joined: Aug 16, 2009
Location: Lifelong Nuggets Fan
 

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#827 » by Dupp » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:04 pm

Don’t see buddy as attainable
falcolombardi
General Manager
Posts: 9,607
And1: 7,199
Joined: Apr 13, 2021
       

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#828 » by falcolombardi » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:10 pm

1 weak defender can ruin a great defense or become unplayable in the playoffs

Forbes is a great shooter but he had to ride the bench nearly all playoffs for bucks

i dont know if buddy is quite thst bad in defense (his reputation amd king results are stupid bad tho) but he doesnt inspire confidence
User avatar
Mos_Heat
RealGM
Posts: 10,622
And1: 36,990
Joined: Jan 12, 2016
Location: Meh
 

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#829 » by Mos_Heat » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:10 pm

Dupp wrote:Don’t see buddy as attainable

heh? He's a role player on a huge deal. He's very attainable. The only problem might be that the Kangz wanna be better next year, so they won't trade their veterans
:reporter:
User avatar
Dupp
RealGM
Posts: 112,394
And1: 67,145
Joined: Aug 16, 2009
Location: Lifelong Nuggets Fan
 

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#830 » by Dupp » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:12 pm

Mos_Heat wrote:
Dupp wrote:Don’t see buddy as attainable

heh? He's a role player on a huge deal. He's very attainable. The only problem might be that the Kangz wanna be better next year, so they won't trade their veterans

I actually just looked at his deal and tbh I thought it was way worse. It’s not too bad.


I think he’s good enough opposing teams would offer more than the Lakers can.
User avatar
Mos_Heat
RealGM
Posts: 10,622
And1: 36,990
Joined: Jan 12, 2016
Location: Meh
 

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#831 » by Mos_Heat » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:13 pm

falcolombardi wrote:1 weak defender can ruin a great defense or become unplayable in the playoffs

Forbes is a great shooter but he had to ride the bench nearly all playoffs for bucks

i dont know if buddy is quite thst bad in defense (his reputation amd king results are stupid bad tho) but he doesnt inspire confidence

He's not that bad, and more versatile as a scorer, but he would be unplayable against a team like the Nets
:reporter:
nzahir
RealGM
Posts: 11,588
And1: 5,089
Joined: Nov 04, 2017
 

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#832 » by nzahir » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:14 pm

Mos_Heat wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:1 weak defender can ruin a great defense or become unplayable in the playoffs

Forbes is a great shooter but he had to ride the bench nearly all playoffs for bucks

i dont know if buddy is quite thst bad in defense (his reputation amd king results are stupid bad tho) but he doesnt inspire confidence

He's not that bad, and more versatile as a scorer, but he would be unplayable against a team like the Nets

Why is he unplayable? Because he isn't a great defender?

What about Kyrie, Harris, and Harden
User avatar
Mos_Heat
RealGM
Posts: 10,622
And1: 36,990
Joined: Jan 12, 2016
Location: Meh
 

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#833 » by Mos_Heat » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:15 pm

Dupp wrote:
Mos_Heat wrote:
Dupp wrote:Don’t see buddy as attainable

heh? He's a role player on a huge deal. He's very attainable. The only problem might be that the Kangz wanna be better next year, so they won't trade their veterans

I actually just looked at his deal and tbh I thought it was way worse. It’s not too bad.


I think he’s good enough opposing teams would offer more than the Lakers can.

Disagree, his contract is about 20-24 millions under water. His salary should be around 12-13 millions per
:reporter:
User avatar
Mos_Heat
RealGM
Posts: 10,622
And1: 36,990
Joined: Jan 12, 2016
Location: Meh
 

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#834 » by Mos_Heat » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:17 pm

nzahir wrote:
Mos_Heat wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:1 weak defender can ruin a great defense or become unplayable in the playoffs

Forbes is a great shooter but he had to ride the bench nearly all playoffs for bucks

i dont know if buddy is quite thst bad in defense (his reputation amd king results are stupid bad tho) but he doesnt inspire confidence

He's not that bad, and more versatile as a scorer, but he would be unplayable against a team like the Nets

Why is he unplayable? Because he isn't a great defender?

What about Kyrie, Harris, and Harden

Kyrie and Harden are top 10 offensive players, and Buddie Hield isn't close to that. Harris is bigger and better as a defender, imho
:reporter:
nzahir
RealGM
Posts: 11,588
And1: 5,089
Joined: Nov 04, 2017
 

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#835 » by nzahir » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:41 pm

Mos_Heat wrote:
nzahir wrote:
Mos_Heat wrote:He's not that bad, and more versatile as a scorer, but he would be unplayable against a team like the Nets

Why is he unplayable? Because he isn't a great defender?

What about Kyrie, Harris, and Harden

Kyrie and Harden are top 10 offensive players, and Buddie Hield isn't close to that. Harris is bigger and better as a defender, imho

Hield isn't close to that, but he is a 40% career guy and 39% the last 2 years on about 4 makes a game

If he is getting good looks, which he should here, and continues to shoot at say 40%. That is 1.2ppp, that is all time great offense

Dennis was underwhelming, especially as a playmaker and shooter, but he was good at getting to the basket and finishing

I wonder if we add more shooting it would allow him to go more 1 on 1 and teams couldn't hedge/help as much

Close with Dennis, Hield, Lebron, AD and 1 of AC, KCP, mle wing (Batum, OPJ?, etc?)

Pretty good, but not sure if its enough vs fully healthy BKN

Lowry would be great, but is he worth more than Dennis, Hield, and 1 of AC/THT (we would likely lose 1 if we got hard capped, rather have AC to win now)?

If we could get Lowry for THT, 1st, and Kuzma on a discount and DD on a discount and keep AC, that would probably be a better option, right?

Can keep Gasol, KCP, and AC hopefully and then all vet min guys

Lowry, KCP, Lebron, AD, Gasol
AC, Wes?, Derozan, Kieff?, Vet big like Dwight/Mcgee/etc?
Mclemore? Alfonzo?

Rivers? Tony Snell? Andre Roberson? Avery Bradley? Etc.
McBubbles
Rookie
Posts: 1,213
And1: 1,361
Joined: Jun 16, 2020

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#836 » by McBubbles » Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:21 pm

kayess wrote:For all the acclaim LeBron gets for his BBIQ, I have no **** idea why once an offseason there's legit sources linking his teams to players that would be awful next to him. And yes, I'm assuming that he gets significant input on who the team should look at.


90% of ATG players have **** player evaluation skills. It's a law of physics.

Which is why it annoys me to no end when someone says X superstar point guard would be a great coach because of their on court BBIQ, as if history hasn't shown us that it doesn't translate to signings or coaching
You said to me “I will give you scissor seven fine quality animation".

You left then but you put flat mediums which were not good before my scissor seven".

What do you take me for, that you treat somebody like me with such contempt?
User avatar
Mos_Heat
RealGM
Posts: 10,622
And1: 36,990
Joined: Jan 12, 2016
Location: Meh
 

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#837 » by Mos_Heat » Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:30 pm

nzahir wrote:
Mos_Heat wrote:
nzahir wrote:Why is he unplayable? Because he isn't a great defender?

What about Kyrie, Harris, and Harden

Kyrie and Harden are top 10 offensive players, and Buddie Hield isn't close to that. Harris is bigger and better as a defender, imho

Hield isn't close to that, but he is a 40% career guy and 39% the last 2 years on about 4 makes a game

If he is getting good looks, which he should here, and continues to shoot at say 40%. That is 1.2ppp, that is all time great offense

There's a difference between guys who will kill you in iso and a guy like Hield who's depended

Anyways, I would be ok with Hield, if they can keep the pick, if not I'm out on this deal. Too costly for a flawed player
:reporter:
nzahir
RealGM
Posts: 11,588
And1: 5,089
Joined: Nov 04, 2017
 

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#838 » by nzahir » Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:02 pm

Mos_Heat wrote:
nzahir wrote:
Mos_Heat wrote:Kyrie and Harden are top 10 offensive players, and Buddie Hield isn't close to that. Harris is bigger and better as a defender, imho

Hield isn't close to that, but he is a 40% career guy and 39% the last 2 years on about 4 makes a game

If he is getting good looks, which he should here, and continues to shoot at say 40%. That is 1.2ppp, that is all time great offense

There's a difference between guys who will kill you in iso and a guy like Hield who's depended

Anyways, I would be ok with Hield, if they can keep the pick, if not I'm out on this deal. Too costly for a flawed player

We have seen Lebron surrounded with shooters do pretty well though

Buddy can create a bit himself too from what I have seen. This isn't Mike Miller

My question is, who is our pg if we move our salary for Hield

Dennis again?

Dinwiddie if he takes the mle? (start AC maybe and let him come off the bench?)

Brunson for THT and some 2nds? Brunson for our 1st and 2 future 2nds? Not sure why Dallas does this unless they don't want to pay him soon and need the cap space?
trickshot
Head Coach
Posts: 6,840
And1: 7,542
Joined: Feb 27, 2012

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#839 » by trickshot » Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:21 pm

McBubbles wrote:
kayess wrote:For all the acclaim LeBron gets for his BBIQ, I have no **** idea why once an offseason there's legit sources linking his teams to players that would be awful next to him. And yes, I'm assuming that he gets significant input on who the team should look at.


90% of ATG players have **** player evaluation skills. It's a law of physics.

Which is why it annoys me to no end when someone says X superstar point guard would be a great coach because of their on court BBIQ, as if history hasn't shown us that it doesn't translate to signings or coaching

Def covered by thermodynamics. Look it up. The universe saying nothing personal but you're too OP on the basketball court to have a clue off it.
User avatar
Dupp
RealGM
Posts: 112,394
And1: 67,145
Joined: Aug 16, 2009
Location: Lifelong Nuggets Fan
 

Re: The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition 

Post#840 » by Dupp » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:54 am

Mos_Heat wrote:
Dupp wrote:
Mos_Heat wrote:heh? He's a role player on a huge deal. He's very attainable. The only problem might be that the Kangz wanna be better next year, so they won't trade their veterans

I actually just looked at his deal and tbh I thought it was way worse. It’s not too bad.


I think he’s good enough opposing teams would offer more than the Lakers can.

Disagree, his contract is about 20-24 millions under water. His salary should be around 12-13 millions per



No way he’s worth only 13 mil. I think Joe Harris is a good point of reference, overpaid or not still probably market value. Buddy shot 39% from 3 on 10 attempts last season.


I think he would be perfect but think kings would be looking for
More than Lakers offer.

Return to Player Comparisons