2021 Draft Thread - Part II

[Gig18]

Amen to that!

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Watch on YouTube

[Dat2U]

I honestly don't see the Moody love. Maybe I didn't watch enough. But he looked like he plays below the rim, doesn't have any explosion, and didn't drive and finish at the rim very well at all. Didn't see any passing that wowed me. Yes, he's long, but I fidn't sense he had very quick feet, which means he'd be reaching at the next level. I think he's going, so maybe he gets stronger.
As for a few others, wasn't wowed by wagner and i know shariffe is exciting, but if can't shoot from outside, how's he significantly different from Ish Smith?
I like tre mann, he and boughnight both look like they can shoot and score.

I get alot of the same vibes about Moody. But with so few quality wings available they have to find someone to prop up even if he feels like a middlin' prospect.

I think Ish is Sharife's floor but Sharife has more pure PG skills and was a much better passer & finisher in college. Ish could always get to the rim but has always struggled with what to do when he gets there. If Sharife gets a respectable jumper, he's a potential all-star IMO.

[payitforward]

I honestly don't see the Moody love. Maybe I didn't watch enough. But he looked like he plays below the rim, doesn't have any explosion, and didn't drive and finish at the rim very well at all. Didn't see any passing that wowed me. Yes, he's long, but I fidn't sense he had very quick feet, which means he'd be reaching at the next level. I think he's going, so maybe he gets stronger.
As for a few others, wasn't wowed by wagner and i know shariffe is exciting, but if can't shoot from outside, how's he significantly different from Ish Smith?
I like tre mann, he and boughnight both look like they can shoot and score.

I get alot of the same vibes about Moody. But with so few quality wings available they have to find someone to prop up even if he feels like a middlin' prospect....

Yes, very well put. Probably why we're seeing Duarte & Murphy on return visits.

You kind of get the feeling that it's Duarte -- or Murphy if Duarte's gone. I'd a lot rather have 2 lower R1 picks or 1 plus a high R2 pick than take that route. You might get Murphy anyway, & even if you don't, you'd be likely to do better picking the bpa at #21 & #32 than focusing on "a wing" at #15.

That said, there is a chance that Murphy turns out well & maybe even more of a chance in Duarte's case.

I think Ish is Sharife's floor but Sharife has more pure PG skills and was a much better passer & finisher in college. Ish could always get to the rim but has always struggled with what to do when he gets there. If Sharife gets a respectable jumper, he's a potential all-star IMO.

Without a doubt. But... what if he doesn't get a jumper...?

I'm with SUPERBALLMAN on this. Trade down if possible. If Cooper is there at the higher of the 2 picks you got, roll the dice on him. At least you get another shot with the 2d of those picks.

[verbal8]

5 days to go - all sorts of maneuvering and disinformation going on...

I think it is going to be a very interesting draft. One thing that is especially interesting is a number of teams in the top of the draft are win-now or potentially win-now.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I honestly don't see the Moody love. Maybe I didn't watch enough. But he looked like he plays below the rim, doesn't have any explosion, and didn't drive and finish at the rim very well at all. Didn't see any passing that wowed me. Yes, he's long, but I fidn't sense he had very quick feet, which means he'd be reaching at the next level. I think he's going, so maybe he gets stronger.
As for a few others, wasn't wowed by wagner and i know shariffe is exciting, but if can't shoot from outside, how's he significantly different from Ish Smith?
I like tre mann, he and boughnight both look like they can shoot and score.

I get alot of the same vibes about Moody. But with so few quality wings available they have to find someone to prop up even if he feels like a middlin' prospect....

Yes, very well put. Probably why we're seeing Duarte & Murphy on return visits.

You kind of get the feeling that it's Duarte -- or Murphy if Duarte's gone. I'd a lot rather have 2 lower R1 picks or 1 plus a high R2 pick than take that route. You might get Murphy anyway, & even if you don't, you'd be likely to do better picking the bpa at #21 & #32 than focusing on "a wing" at #15.

That said, there is a chance that Murphy turns out well & maybe even more of a chance in Duarte's case.

I think Ish is Sharife's floor but Sharife has more pure PG skills and was a much better passer & finisher in college. Ish could always get to the rim but has always struggled with what to do when he gets there. If Sharife gets a respectable jumper, he's a potential all-star IMO.

Without a doubt. But... what if he doesn't get a jumper...?

I'm with SUPERBALLMAN on this. Trade down if possible. If Cooper is there at the higher of the 2 picks you got, roll the dice on him. At least you get another shot with the 2d of those picks.

Right, and I have similar thoughts on Moody. He's long, and can stroke it, but he's not very quick.

I definitely prefer trade down. Maybe the Rockets at 23 & 24, or Knicks 21 & 32?

Right now on NBA DRAFT ROOM 23 & 24 are mocked with Murphy and Springer. Hello.

21 is mocked with Butler.

If there is a player they have their eye on and want to move up for at 15, maybe someone like Mitchell, or Moody, or Jalen Johnson or Cam Thomas, that's better for them, because they already have multiple picks. Knicks can deal 21 & 32 for 15 and also have 19. Rockets can deal 23 & 24 for 15 and also are at 2, and they have 3 1sts next year! They can consolidate quantity for quality because they have the volume of picks, whereas we need to diversify our asset.

Instead of putting all our eggs in one basket with someone at 15 like Moody, or even Mitchell as much as I like him, I'd rather come away with Murphy AND Springer. Or Butler AND Wieskamp.

I do like Cooper, but I actually prefer McBride.

[dckingsfan]

5 days to go - all sorts of maneuvering and disinformation going on...

I think it is going to be a very interesting draft. One thing that is especially interesting is a number of teams in the top of the draft are win-now or potentially win-now.

You just kind of feel like something epic is going to happen...

[Gig18]

The thing that's making me most uncomfortable right now is the quiet after yesterday's Beal rumor. Not a sound from Brad.
Everyone always wants to start over. This game is about stars and shooting these days. We HAVE 2 stars. I don't feel like this is the time to trade one or both of them. It's time to try to finagle a way to get a third. Or more top end shooting to make them better.
We've never been really able to draw too end free agents. Getting to the playoffs and establishing a winning culture could change that.
I don' want to lose Beal for the 7 and 14 in a 5 player draft.

[gambitx777]

I don't believe this is so much a 3 - 5 player draft as people say it is.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[payitforward]

I definitely prefer trade down. Maybe the Rockets at 23 & 24, or Knicks 21 & 32?

...Knicks can deal 21 & 32 for 15 and also have 19. Rockets can deal 23 & 24 for 15 and also are at 2, and they have 3 1sts next year! They can consolidate quantity for quality because they have the volume of picks, whereas we need to diversify our asset....

The Knicks trade would be about an even exchange of value, IMO.

But, Houston -- even they want to consolidate -- should be able to get more than #15 for #23 & 24. Probably a couple of picks higher anyway. We could maybe make up the difference by loosening protection on the '23 pick we owe them.

[payitforward]

I don't believe this is so much a 3 - 5 player draft as people say it is.

I agree -- in fact, this is an extremely deep draft, chock full of quality prospects.

[Gig18]

Quality? Sure. But right now, based on current evaluations, there are like 4 "sure things" guys everybody feels will turn into multiple all star appearance guys. The kind of guys you trade a still young all star guy for. A dude you build around.
Someone always exceeds expectations but projecting those guys is really difficult. If it wasn'y, they'd be picked number one. Because you want them, you crave them, you, as a GM, build your career around. If I were a GM I would only want to trade a franchise guy for another franchise guy --- not a bunch of not-so-sure picks hoping you strike gold. Otherwise you just end up being a farm team for the big boys --- hoping that you stuck so bad that you end up lucky enough to get a top 3 pick so you van draft a guy like you gave away.
Jus sayin

[Ruzious]

I don't believe this is so much a 3 - 5 player draft as people say it is.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

Who do you like at 5 through 10?

[payitforward]

Sure! No one trades a sure thing for a maybe thing. For that matter, I wouldn't say there are 5 sure things in this draft -- if you mean sure-thing stars. In fact, there are none. & that's pretty much always the way it is.

But, there are several other factors involved -- above all in relation to Brad's desire to stay. & uncertainty affects what what we'd be willing to take for Brad. Legitimately affects the question.

As to this being the time to "finagle a way to get a third" star, forget about it. There's no way to get an established star, period. We could draft someone who turns out to be a star, but that's about it. It's kind of pointless to imagine anything else.

[Gig18]

Well, someone is sure going to finagle a way to get a star if we trade Brad.
What would it take to get siakam? Could we pry a younger guy with talent? Would it be better to keep brad, see what a new coach does with some of our younger guys and then risk losing him for nothing and hope to land back in the top 3?
I know what being in the low to middle looks like.

[Dark Faze]

The thing that's making me most uncomfortable right now is the quiet after yesterday's Beal rumor. Not a sound from Brad.
Everyone always wants to start over. This game is about stars and shooting these days. We HAVE 2 stars. I don't feel like this is the time to trade one or both of them. It's time to try to finagle a way to get a third. Or more top end shooting to make them better.
We've never been really able to draw too end free agents. Getting to the playoffs and establishing a winning culture could change that.
I don' want to lose Beal for the 7 and 14 in a 5 player draft.

He's gone bro.

[gambitx777]

I don't believe this is so much a 3 - 5 player draft as people say it is.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

Who do you like at 5 through 10?

I don't know if they are gonna get taken 5-10
But the next 5 best after suggs I'd say is Barnes, Wagner, moody, Kispert and springer. Imo
I'll add some * here sengun might be a dino but if he can put a shot together he could be big time, if guraba can play O he might be the next Marion and not MKG.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[payitforward]

I do not understand why people can't simply look at past drafts & come away understanding that it's simply not the case that the best players are taken near the top. Most of the best players are taken a fair amount lower.

The best players taken in 2017 seem to have been (in no particular order) Jayson Tatum, DeAaron Fox, John Collins, Bam Adebayo, Donovan Mitchell, Jarrett Allen, OG Anunoby, Derrick White, Josh Hart, Thomas Bryant, Dillon Brooks & Monte Morris.

2 guys taken in the top 5. 3 guys taken in the teens. 4 guys taken in the final 10 picks of R1, & 3 taken in R2.

2016 was a little more top-loaded -- but 2015, 2014 & 2013 were all way LESS top-loaded. & 2012 had 3 outstanding players & 2 ok players out of the top 10. The rest of R1 wasn't anywhere near as good as R2 that year -- in fact, R2 produced 9 good players of whom 8 are still in the league.

The year before that the 2 best players went #15 & #30. 2 of the other standouts went #19 & #60.

So... I don't get it: what makes everyone so sure it'll be different this year? Or any year in the future?

[Gig18]

Gosh. I do understand that. So the answer is clear. You don't trade Brad. He's still under contract. And you draft the obvious franchise guy at 15. Or even better, you trade down from 15 and two, maybe three or four obviousfranchisee players. We form our own superteam in this draft! .
I know there are always guys who surprise. But it takes really good fortune to find those guys. ThT's why they're "surprises" you know?
I would be tempted to keep Brad, draft someone we think can help and then fish for low hanging fruit --- get back to the playoffs and try to win. If we have to blow it up, do it when brad and russ's contracts are up and we're flush with green --- the only other color that matters to bigtime free agents.

[DCZards]

The best players taken in 2017 seem to have been (in no particular order) Jayson Tatum, DeAaron Fox, John Collins, Bam Adebayo, Donovan Mitchell, Jarrett Allen, OG Anunoby, Derrick White, Josh Hart, Thomas Bryant, Dillon Brooks & Monte Morris.

2 guys taken in the top 5. 3 guys taken in the teens. 4 guys taken in the final 10 picks of R1, & 3 taken in R2.

I'm gonna add two names to the list of best players taken in 2017: Lonzo Ball (2nd pick) and Jonathan Isaac (6th pick).

Ball belongs on this list, especially if he continues to improve the way that he has, and, if he can ever stay healthy, Isaac will also be on the list of best players from the 2017.