Center Options

[Braggins]

I think they should be avoiding most of the bigs in this free agent class and should be looking for value signings.

Drummond is absolutely awful and I wouldn't want him on the team if he literally played for free. Cousins still has some talent, but he is likely shot physically and would only be a good signing if it was a super cheap contract where it didn't matter if he couldn't play at all. Holmes is pretty nice, but he wants 20 mil per year and I don't think he is worth that. Allen will also get overpaid.

They should be targeting guys that could potentially be signed with a cap exception, like Theis and Noel, so that they can retain current depth and fill the center position short term without ruining the teams cap sheet. I would much rather keep Monk and sign Theis/Noel with an exception than lose Monk to sign Holmes, who is really only marginally better than Theis/Noel.

Also, a little ot, but the front office is insane if they are considering paying Graham anywhere near 19 million per year. Like, if they spend 40 million per year on long term contracts for Devonte and Holmes, that seems crazy when they could potential get Theis/Noel + Monk for like half that much and Monk is younger/better than Devonte and is a better fit for what the team needs.

[BigSlam]

I think they should be avoiding most of the bigs in this free agent class and should be looking for value signings.

Aggggggggrreeeeeeeeeeeeeed!!

I know which options of these are most attractive to me:

Draft a centre at #11 (if there is a good one on the board to draft when we are on the clock).
Noel at $5-$7mil a year over 2 years with a 3rd year team option.
Holmes at $20mil a year over 3+ years.
Allen at $25mil a year over 4+ years.
Trading #11 combined with other assets for Turner.

[Bassman]

I think they should be avoiding most of the bigs in this free agent class and should be looking for value signings.

Aggggggggrreeeeeeeeeeeeeed!!

I know which options of these are most attractive to me:

Draft a centre at #11 (if there is a good one on the board to draft when we are on the clock).
Noel at $5-$7mil a year over 2 years with a 3rd year team option.
Holmes at $20mil a year over 3+ years.
Allen at $25mil a year over 4+ years.
Trading #11 combined with other assets for Turner.

On the other hand, how long are we going to try and win with a mediocre center? It’s time we pay for a quality 5, and sometimes you have to overpay

> I do not see Noel signing such a cheap & short contract. He’s worth more than that and, at 27, entering his prime. Good defender, average rebounder, no offense.
> Holmes is the real deal. No all-star but is athletic, contributes on all levels, and would blend well with our swarming attack. My preference for our free agent signing.

[wilson115]

An earlier report from Kings beat writer James Ham on NBC Sports in the Bay Area noted that Holmes is expected to seek a deal in free agency worth around four years and $80 million—$20 million per year. One executive, when presented with that number, laughed.

“I mean, goals and aspirations are good things,” he said. “But if this guy is looking for that kind of money, he’s going to have to play the lottery. He can’t shoot and he can’t stay healthy and he plays a position where it is just too easy to find cheaper options. He’ll get paid but it won’t be how he thinks.”

The exec referenced Holmes’ flaws, primarily his inability to stay healthy. He missed 11 games this season after sitting for 28 games last year, and has never played out a full season in his career. He’s also a throwback big guy, in a bad way: He can’t shoot 3s. After trying to develop his shot beyond the arc early in his career, Holmes has gone 2-for-11 from deep in the past three seasons.

There will be others waiting to pounce—most notably, a source said, the Hornets. Charlotte considered trading for Holmes during the season and would be a very good fit because Charlotte could use a dirty-work center who does not need to score but who could fit well with LaMelo Ball and Gordon Hayward.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/seandeveney/2021/06/27/sacramento-kings-hit-big-with-richaun-holmes-whos-now-set-to-leave/?sh=776f4fe23f4e

[Benjamin Linus]

Richaun Holmes is a little older than I originally thought. He'll be 28 at the start of the season so a four year contract will put him at 30 and 31 in the final two years. Is that a bit of concern for a guy who relies a lot on athleticism and doesn't have great size for a center at 6'8.5 without shoes

[BigSlam]

On the other hand, how long are we going to try and win with a mediocre center? It’s time we pay for a quality 5, and sometimes you have to overpay.

That's your key word right there ^

Are you suggesting someone like Holmes is quality?

He's knocking on the door of 30, can't shoot, can't stay healthy and is undersized.

And Allen? I've always liked him, I was on him coming out of Texas. But you want to pay top dollar for a guy who can't shoot and can't create any of his own offense at all and can't defend away from the paint?

Finally Turner: Can shoot, good age but can't stay healthy and also can't defend away from the paint.

I'd much rather a year long stop gap like Noel, or even bring Cody back - both on the cheap, than to over pay for some of the other really mediocre options.

[yosemiteben]

He missed 10 games last season. Our threshold for "can't stay healthy" is WAY lower than that.

[BigSlam]

He missed 10 games last season. Our threshold for "can't stay healthy" is WAY lower than that.

Holmes games played since coming into the league in 2015:

2015/16 = 51
2016/17 = 57
2017/18 = 48
2018/19 = 70
2019/20 = 44
2020/21 = 61

[Diop]

Ugh I dunno, I want to move on from Zeller/Biz at centre but I don’t want to break the bank on mediocrity.

I guess I just have to pray for a miracle

[SWedd523]

Ugh I dunno, I want to move on from Zeller/Biz at centre but I don’t want to break the bank on mediocrity.

I guess I just have to pray for a miracle

Hence my desire to draft one.

Either pay 20+ million for a FA that may or may not work out, or get one on a rookie deal that may or may not work out.

Much cheaper that way and it's easier to find guards/wings on the open market

[BigSlam]

Ugh I dunno, I want to move on from Zeller/Biz at centre but I don’t want to break the bank on mediocrity.

I guess I just have to pray for a miracle

Hence my desire to draft one.

Either pay 20+ million for a FA that may or may not work out, or get one on a rookie deal that may or may not work out.

Much cheaper that way and it's easier to find guards/wings on the open market

I could not agree with this sentiment any more if I tried. It just makes good business and basketball sense to me and has long been my stance.

Plus, for me, seeing our own drafted player develop and become something is so much more exciting and enjoyable.

[HornetJail]

Ugh I dunno, I want to move on from Zeller/Biz at centre but I don’t want to break the bank on mediocrity.

I guess I just have to pray for a miracle

Hence my desire to draft one.

Either pay 20+ million for a FA that may or may not work out, or get one on a rookie deal that may or may not work out.

Much cheaper that way and it's easier to find guards/wings on the open market

Reason #1 I think the Hayward signing was idiotic, is we completely punted any chance at the Mobley sweepstakes, or having a high enough pick for someone to give a very good young C in a trade. Christian Wood is basically the only realistic option for the pick straight up. Someone like Turner will certainly require more than just #11, where we probably could've gotten them interested straight up at pick 5-7 if we weren't lucky enough to get a top 4 pick for ourselves. This was the year we actually probably needed to tank a bit.

This team has a strong and very annoying tendency to tank in bad drafts and get decent just before good drafts.

[LofJ]

There's no way we're going to roll into next season with a rookie as our starting center. No one in the organization would be happy with that plan. We could definitely draft a big at 11, but we're still going to either sign someone in free agency or trade for them.

I agree with others that it's crazy to give Rishaun Holmes $20 million. I'm also not excited about the idea of trading PJ and 11 for Turner. So hopefully whatever we end up doing won't be that costly.

[Braggins]

If they do a trade for Turner it should be centered around Hayward or Rozier and not involve any of our first round picks or PJ imo. The teams franchise player is only 20 years old, so making trades that make the team older should be off the table unless they are getting a legit star (MJ needs to learn patience). I think Turner is overrated and both Hayward and Rozier are better players, but I think you could justify a deal for roster balance considerations and also getting Hayward off the books for say (Turner + Lamb) would give the team a ton of cap relief.

Hate to sound like a broken record, but I think PJ is going to have a better career than Turner and is younger and our lottery pick this year is too important to trade for someone like Turner for multiple reasons (rookie scale contract, LaMelo timeline, etc). Turner is like 26 and looks like a safe bet to never make an all-star, all-nba, or even an all-defense team (even though hes a defensive specialist), and his best statistical seasons he only puts up like 13/7. I have lots of hardcore Pacer fan friends and they mostly really don't like Turner and some of them think hes straight up terrible and just mindlessly chases blocks and Ive never been very impressed by his game either.

I think he can play and I certainly think he could help our team if the price was right, but I think hes closer than people realize to just being a shot blocking specialist rather than a true impact player.

tldr: Don't trade lottery picks or PJ for Turner. Maybe trade Hayward or Rozier for Turner.

[Braggins]

Who would people rather trade for between Turner and Nurkic? I think Nurkic is an overall better player, but they aren't that far apart and Nurkic is also injury prone and still fouls way too much.

[Diop]

Ugh I dunno, I want to move on from Zeller/Biz at centre but I don’t want to break the bank on mediocrity.

I guess I just have to pray for a miracle

Hence my desire to draft one.

Either pay 20+ million for a FA that may or may not work out, or get one on a rookie deal that may or may not work out.

Much cheaper that way and it's easier to find guards/wings on the open market

I could not agree with this sentiment any more if I tried. It just makes good business and basketball sense to me and has long been my stance.

Plus, for me, seeing our own drafted player develop and become something is so much more exciting and enjoyable.

I guess I’m nervous in relying upon a draft pick to hold down the position.

[SWedd523]

If they do a trade for Turner it should be centered around Hayward or Rozier and not involve any of our first round picks or PJ imo. The teams franchise player is only 20 years old, so making trades that make the team older should be off the table unless they are getting a legit star (MJ needs to learn patience). I think Turner is overrated and both Hayward and Rozier are better players, but I think you could justify a deal for roster balance considerations and also getting Hayward off the books for say (Turner + Lamb) would give the team a ton of cap relief.

Hate to sound like a broken record, but I think PJ is going to have a better career than Turner and is younger and our lottery pick this year is too important to trade for someone like Turner for multiple reasons (rookie scale contract, LaMelo timeline, etc). Turner is like 26 and looks like a safe bet to never make an all-star, all-nba, or even an all-defense team (even though hes a defensive specialist), and his best statistical seasons he only puts up like 13/7. I have lots of hardcore Pacer fan friends and they mostly really don't like Turner and some of them think hes straight up terrible and just mindlessly chases blocks and Ive never been very impressed by his game either.

I think he can play and I certainly think he could help our team if the price was right, but I think hes closer than people realize to just being a shot blocking specialist rather than a true impact player.

tldr: Don't trade lottery picks or PJ for Turner. Maybe trade Hayward or Rozier for Turner.

I look at a potential Turner trade like this:

Hayward + Kai/Sengun/etc

Or

Turner + Moody/Keon/Kispert/Cam/etc



Which would you rather have? Which would make the team better short and long term?

[BigSlam]

[I guess I’m nervous in relying upon a draft pick to hold down the position.

If we drafted someone like Jones or Jackson I'd still want to bring Cody back on the cheap or bring Noel in on the cheap. I wouldn't expect Kai to start from day #1.

If we drafted someone like Şengün or Sharpe there could be a higher expectation for them to start - but even then it would be a long shot - and I'd still want to bring Cody back on the cheap or bring Noel in on the cheap.

[BigSlam]

Who would people rather trade for between Turner and Nurkic? I think Nurkic is an overall better player, but they aren't that far apart and Nurkic is also injury prone and still fouls way too much.

Hard to say without adding what we would be giving up to bring each of them in.

[BigSlam]

I look at a potential Turner trade like this:

Hayward + Kai/Sengun/etc

Or

Turner + Moody/Keon/Kispert/Cam/etc

Which would you rather have? Which would make the team better short and long term?

I like the idea of Moody a lot, but put me down for:

Hayward + Kai/Sengun/etc

I think Turner has already maxed out his potential - but if we drafted someone like Kai and he actually hit his ceiling....