Does Kobe Bryant have the 2 Greatest Titles in Laker history?

[Stalwart]

The 50s 70s, and 80s Laker teams were all bonafide superteams featuring 3-5 hall of famers each. The Shaq-Kobe Lakers featured possibly the greatest duo in Nba history. The 2020 Lakers was the bubble season.

So that leaves the '09/'10 Lakers teams. These rosters are by far the least stacked title teams in Laker history. They are the only Laker teams not to feature multiple superstars and ATGs. They also faced some of the stiffest competition in Laker history. Out of the 8 playoff series they won 7 were against 50 win teams. They capped it off with a win over a Celtics superteam featuring 4 Hall of Famers.

Considering he wasn't playing with other superstars and ATGs, given the competition he faced, plus the fact he beat a Celtics superteam...can we say that Kobe Bryant has the 2 greatest championships in Lakers history?

[Dutchball97]

Pau Gasol is quickly becoming the most underrated player on this forum.

[drchaos]

1987 is the pinnacle.

[Hellcrooner]

Pau Gasol spites in the face of the OP

[hauntedcomputer]

You mean the rings Pau gave to Kobe with incredible efficiency?

[celtics543]

The '10 Celtics were not a superteam. They were a 4 seed in the regular season and caught a break Lebron melting down in the second round. This was KG post-knee injury.

And I agree with Dutchball97, Pau Gasol was a superstar during that stretch, he should've been the finals MVP. Plus you add super role guys, Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom, Ron Artest, Ariza, and that's a really solid team.

[cupcakesnake]

What is with this little burst of Kobe legacy threads?

If we're just talking narrative: I'm probably going to go with Jerry West finally getting a title in 1972. They had to beat young Kareem's 63 win Bucks team on their way there with a 35-year-old Wilt. The 80s Lakers beat some pretty monster squads on the way to their titles (Larry Bird Celtics and some stacked Phili teams with Moses and Dr. J). The finals were always a bloodbath in the 80s.

The KobePau Lakers were a great team. Monstrous size and skill in the frontcourt, Kobe unstoppable in the triangle. I'd argue that after Kevin Garnett's knee injury, those Lakers were clearly the best team in the league. Orlando was a very good team and the Lakers handled them. I don't look at the West as being crazy competitive during those years. Phoenix had faded (until a quick weird scrappy comeback in 2010), San Antonio was taking a mini-break from being good. The best teams (the ones the Lakers beat) were Billups/Melo Nuggets, The D-Will/Boozer Jazz, and then that scrappy comeback Steve Nash season Suns. Houston was supposed to be big competition, but McGrady and Yao barely even played together in the playoffs (Lakers beat them with both injured). I think those Lakers would be competitive against anyone in any year, they were a great team. But we can't pretend that they were whooping juggernauts on the way to their titles.

[Slava]

Those teams had pretty good #1/#2 options and a capable wing defender like Ariza or Artest but beyond that, they were scarily thin.

Bynum was constantly injured. Odom was inconsistent and while plenty capable, nowhere in the realm of players like Draymond, Klay, Ginobili, Bosh or Kevin Love, who were the nominal 3rd options on teams that made multiple finals appearances or repeated as champions.

The bench was even worse with Luke Walton, Radmanovic, Jordan Farmar, Sasha Vujacic, Ronny Turiaf etc, who did not stick around the league beyond their tenure with the Lakers. Hell, they even got plenty of time from Shannon Brown, who was born with a pogo stick in his leg but couldn't dribble to save his life running the back up PG.

That three year run of three straight finals appearances and repeat championships looks better by the year.

[Stalwart]

Pau Gasol is quickly becoming the most underrated player on this forum.

It's just history correcting itself. Pau was a legit All Star caliber player uniquely suited to compliment Kobe's game and personality. But never, ever, in any universe was Pau a superstar or an all time great. That was always a false narrative.

[OdomFan]

In the entire Laker history? I'd say no. To me the most important ones were.

1. 1980 - Lakers first championship since 72
2. 2000 - Lakers first championship since 88
3. 2009 - Lakers first championship since 02

Kobe absolutely did a good job leading the Lakers from 09-10 but I wont give him all the credit. Gasol helped out. Gasol was never the better player but he was a huge part of the teams returning to championship ready status. Fact is Gasol needed Kobe as much as Kobe needed Gasol.

Just as Shaq needed Kobe as much as Kohe needed Shaq. The 3peat Lakers don't reach any of those Finals without Kobes contributions alongside Shaqs.

[Strepbacter]

Pau Gasol is quickly becoming the most underrated player on this forum.

More like the most overrated. Guy made one All-Star team in seven seasons before joining LA and now you've got a bunch of people claiming he was the best player on the Lakers from 08-10. It's utterly insane. Dude didn't receive a single MVP vote in his entire career lol.

[Hellcrooner]

Pau Gasol is quickly becoming the most underrated player on this forum.

It's just history correcting itself. Pau was a legit All Star caliber player uniquely suited to compliment Kobe's game and personality. But never, ever, in any universe was Pau a superstar or an all time great. That was always a false narrative.

tehn you go and check how many players in history have a bigger resume adding points+rebounds+asists+blocks.
discover its like 3 players.
and go back to your corner in uter shame of having had such an idiotic point of view on an ALL TIME GREAT like Pau.

[Strepbacter]

You mean the rings Pau gave to Kobe with incredible efficiency?

No, he means the rings that Kobe gave to Pau with incredible play, but I'm sure you think it's just a coincidence that Pau's efficiency exploded as soon as he joined the best offensive player in the world.

[DoctorX]

That Lakers team may not have been as talented as previous championship teams but at the time had the most stacked frontcourt in the league. Nobody could match up with their front court of Odom,Bynum,Gasol. All 3 of those guys were averaging close to double doubles at the time. They would kill you on the offensive glass with their back breaking second chance points that most teams were powerless to stop.

Kobe greatly benefited from this. He could have terrible shooting nights and still come out on top simply because he knew the trio of Odom/Bynum/Gasol would rebound his misses and give him plenty of second chance points.

What was interesting how they fell apart when they finally ran into a team that had the size to match up with them in the '11 Mavs who had Dirk,Chandler,Haywood that were all good rebounders. With their dominant rebounding edge taken away they were exposed badly.

[Lakers LeBron]

Pau Gasol was a one time all-star before joining the Lakers. Let's not act like he was some superstar when he arrived. Kobe made Gasol, not the other way around.

[SK21209]

Pau was one of the 15 best players in the league those years. While Bynum and Odom were injured/inconsistent, the collective size of that team was completely overwhelming. Those teams were the last vestige of the 90s/2000s NBA where size/volume scoring was the name of the game. There was a pretty clear transition starting in 2010-2011 toward spacing the floor and running more read & react offense.

[SmoothLefty21]

There was a real argument that Pau deserved Finals MVP in '10.

[DoctorX]

Pau Gasol was a one time all-star before joining the Lakers. Let's not act like he was some superstar when he arrived. Kobe made Gasol, not the other way around.

Pau was a legit star before Kobe. He lead the Grizzlies to the playoffs 3 times in a stacked Western Conference.

[Strepbacter]

That Lakers team may not have been as talented as previous championship teams but at the time had the most stacked frontcourt in the league. Nobody could match up with their front court of Odom,Bynum,Gasol.

lol @ this nonsense.

1) They weren't the best frontcourt in the league in 08, 09, or 2010

2) They were far better on offense than defense from 08-10 as a whole (including the postseason) and Bryant was their best offensive player by far. Don't kid yourself.

2) The 08 Lakers were #22 in the league in OREB rate. They were a terrible offensive rebounding team. They STILL won 58 games, were the #1 seed with a 7.3 SRS, and played at a GOAT level when healthy (+9.7 SRS). And they did that while playing in the best conference ever. Oh, and Bynum only played 35 games in the regular season, and missed the entire postseason. OrEBez though!

3) You can't bring up the offensive rebounding from Pau/Odom/ without acknowledging that means they AND their defenders were crowding/clogging the lane at virtually all times, which hurt Bryant's game. You can't have it both ways. The 2010 Lakers had flat-out porous spacing, even relative to environment. Relative to today? The gap is comical.

[Stannis]

Pau Gasol is quickly becoming the most underrated player on this forum.

For real. It's absolutely criminal.