Simone Biles

[Pelly24]

It's an interesting topic because I think media and fans in general have made it a crime to not be Michael Jordan (who, even himself, took a year and a half break from ball). I think the idea of "choking" and being "mentally weak" probably won't be promoted in the future.

All of that said, it's a slippery slope. I'm trying to think of how it might be received if I have a project I agreed to a long time ago and then the day of, I just say I can't do it. Can I just say it was a mental health issue? It probably would be. Probably nerves and or anxiety that prevented me from doing it. But to what extent is that going to be an acceptable reason? What if it's just the same anxiety most people feel? What happens to the idea of "persevering" and working through anxiety and your fear of failure/anything else? Will that be allowed? Is there any way to distinguish the difference between what Simone Biles just did and what a person who is feeling extremely nervous and throws up just did? Is there really a difference?

Those are the questions I have. Idk about further lionizing Biles for this. On the same spectrum is Naomi Osaka, who, in my opinion, kinda vilified the media in a childish way because she, like a lot of other people, don't want to even face uncomfortable questions. It's just ...idk to me.

On another note, I will say that the margin for error in a Gymnastics is much smaller than in Basketball, stuff like that. I can understand what Biles did a little more on a functional level because of that.

[Jedi32]

what I wanna know is....why is she considered the GOAT so vehemently when she has 6 medals which doesn't even put her in the top 10..is this some Americentrism thing?

Simones routines are the most complex difficult routines ever attempted by any female athlete in gymnastics. The reason Simone wins isn't because the is "perfectly" consistent its that fact that she scores so many more points than the other athletes due to the difficulty part of the scoring that she wins despite any mistakes. Between Olympics and World Championships she has won 27 championships now.

Simone was first ever woman to land
1. Yurchenko Double Pike on Vault
2. Double-Double Dismount on Beam
3. Triple-Double on Floor

The International Gymnastics committee has actually decreased the "difficult" score of some of her tricks because her difficulty factor is drastically higher than every other athlete in the world it makes it impossible for any athlete to beat her unless Simone makes major errors.

i think what you posted was a contributing factor. she probably felt she couldn't duplicate or outdo the previous things she did, so she bowed out. not saying it was the main reason, but she's done so many amazing things that i feel she felt she could no longer maintain that peak.

[KembaWalker]

99% of people criticising her could never live her life. Both live with the pressures and the workload.

nobody here can play in the NBA either but we still criticize NBA players actions and mental fortitude daily. including you. you think someone couldnt find a post out of your 100k of you calling an nba player a quitter?

[enigmatics]

She didn't cite the kind of "mental issues" you would've expected like "I was having a mental breakdown out there." Her words were she wasn't having fun........ F-U-N. Not to mention she wouldn't rule out the individual competition and her description of the lead up to the Olympics made it seem like she completely forgot what it takes to get there.

It's an age/coddling/entitlement problem coming on the heels of a poor performance. Anyone suggesting otherwise is kidding themselves and creating a reason in their heads that isn't actually coming out of her mouth.

[Jedi32]

She's no longer the GOAT after this decision IMO.

This will be used against her when comparing GOAT gymnasts.

I don't get this comment at all. From my prior post.

Simones routines are the most complex difficult routines ever attempted by any female athlete in gymnastics ever.

Simone was first ever woman to land
1. Yurchenko Double Pike on Vault
2. Double-Double Dismount on Beam
3. Triple-Double on Floor

The International Gymnastics committee has actually decreased the "difficult" score of some of her tricks because her difficulty factor is drastically higher than every other athlete in the world it makes it impossible for any athlete to beat her unless Simone makes major errors.

What Simone has done in Gymnastics is effectively "breaking all the records". How is it possible to argue against her when she does tricks that no other female gymnast can do? It would be like trying to argue that "Runner X is the GOAT sprinter despite the fact the Usain Bolt holds all of the world records". Its a silly argument.

folks like that poster aren't using logic.

[Jedi32]

She's no longer the GOAT after this decision IMO.

This will be used against her when comparing GOAT gymnasts.

I beg to differ. Honestly, who do you compare her to? She's in her own universe; 19 world titles, 36 medals (27 gold, six silver, four bronze), four Olympic gold medals, and boasts four moves named after her. Not to mention, one of her gold medals was obtained while passing a kidney stone and enduring routine sexual abuse from her team doctor. She's the proverbial equivalent of 10 Michael Jordans in the sport of gymnastics.

She owes no one anything, she's done more for gymnastics than anyone, and she has the full backing of her teammates. Gymnasts have died on the mat for making mistakes during routines, so if she says her head isn't in it, who are we to question her? The last thing any of us want to witness is the greatest ever get seriously hurt.

[Andrew McCeltic]

This is 2021. There isn't a day goes by that some celebrity isn't coming out and telling you their "stories". Their "struggles", their "journeys", all that. It's becoming a common PR strategies for those who fail to live up to expectation, or decide to bottle it, or refuse to accept the fact that they are fading away from the main stage. What's worse? General public always reward them with waves of good words, like "you are stunning human being" or "this is so brave". You go on to instgram, 50% of the celebrities seem to have some form of anxiety, or tell your how they recover from drug history, some darkness in the past, how there is a "struggle" behind those fancy public images. Maybe it's because they are public images, and their voices are louder than those Amazon warehouse workers or our soldiers in the army?

Not saying Biles is doing the same thing, just a general thought on the mental illness in terms of how it is being abused these days because it is so unfair for those who are genuinely suffering.

Yeah you just have to look at the intentions behind sharing the message. If they have a legitimate struggle that's been going on for a while and them sharing is helping them cope and move forward, it's commendable. If they're sharing so that they can fit in and be accepted by the group then it's in poor taste.

It is frustrating when celebrities coopt mental health issues to seem relatable - the problems that are the least “threatening” end up getting the bulk of the attention and sympathy. But I don’t think it’s being used as a p.r. strategy. Back in the 90s any celebrity who acted badly would go to rehab, it was an all purpose reputation body shop and it was sometimes honest and needed but other times totally transparent. I don’t see much of that - I think it’s just trendy for people to treat less than perfect “wellness” as anxiety or depression. There’s a difference between pneumonia and a common cold.

[Jedi32]

She's no longer the GOAT after this decision IMO.

This will be used against her when comparing GOAT gymnasts.

I beg to differ. Honestly, who do you compare her to? She's in her own universe; 19 world titles, 36 medals (27 gold, six silver, four bronze), four Olympic gold medals, and boasts four moves named after her. Not to mention, one of her gold medals was obtained while passing a kidney stone and enduring routine sexual abuse from her team doctor. She's the proverbial equivalent of 10 Michael Jordans in the sport of gymnastics.

She owes no one anything, she's done more for gymnastics than anyone, and she has the full backing of her teammates. Gymnasts have died on the mat for making mistakes during routines, so if she says her head isn't in it, who are we to question her? The last thing any of us want to witness is the greatest ever get seriously hurt.

The crazy thing is that if almost anyone else had those types of achievements and perseverance they’d be seen as an American hero. The US is truly a **** up country where someone like Biles is attacked, second guessed and vilified despite everything she’s contributed to the sport under the American flag.

people just want want want, like that lazy cousin you let borrow money fifty times prior, but the one time you don't have it he goes to the rest of the family and starts talking behind your back. those talking ish about her probably don't have a third of the heart she has. she is a hero and someone young people in general should look up to imo. what she has overcome and pushed thru is nothing short of amazing.

[Jedi32]

Imagine thinking that pulling out of likely the last Olympics of your athletic career was strategized to "boost your future career". Just galaxy brain stupid.

after this country elected an idiot like trump, and after witnessing those idiots at the capital, nothing surprises me anymore. people don't use logic or common sense anymore.

[ORLMagicGirl15]

I don't really understand quitting in the middle of the event. I think you either make this decision early enough to let someone else take her place/let the team adjust their plan, or you go through with it once it starts. It's on her that someone else didn't get to compete. Still Biles >>> me so whatever do your thing.

I was watching a YouTube documentary on Shaun White and at his second Olympics he was doing two events and then withdrew from one-there was not an opportunity for another athlete to take his place. He got flacked for not doing it sooner so someone can take his place. He said something along the line that “It is my spot, I earned it and I can do with it what I will.” I understand what you mean, it would be nice if another athlete who wanted to do it could have taken her place but honestly, it was her spot, she could do with it what she wanted.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I'm in the middle as well. On one hand, as big a stage this was, gymnastics is just a sport, a game. If pulling out is truly going to result in the betterment of her life and well being, I support her decision, regardless of what others may say. There's no need to wreck your life over what, at the end of the day, is just a game.

On the other hand, I wouldn't go as far to call her "strong" or a "hero" for this decision as some people seem to be suggesting. At the end of the day, she simply wasn't mentally strong enough to perform. Like it or not, that's weakness, not strength. True strength would have been winning the competition.

True mental health isn’t about strength or weakness any more than a broken bone or diabetes is. They’re just different contexts. Psychological “toughness” is a thing, but Biles has shown plenty of it. I don’t think that’s the issue.

[life_saver]

If there is one olympic sport where I can understand an athlete pulling out if they are not right mentally, then it's gymnastics. The kind of stuff they do seems so scary tbh..if you are mentally not right when you are performing these stunts (not sure what's the better word), it would probably result in some horrific injury.

[minnytola1960]

I'm in the middle as well. On one hand, as big a stage this was, gymnastics is just a sport, a game. If pulling out is truly going to result in the betterment of her life and well being, I support her decision, regardless of what others may say. There's no need to wreck your life over what, at the end of the day, is just a game.

On the other hand, I wouldn't go as far to call her "strong" or a "hero" for this decision as some people seem to be suggesting. At the end of the day, she simply wasn't mentally strong enough to perform. Like it or not, that's weakness, not strength. True strength would have been winning the competition.

True mental health isn’t about strength or weakness any more than a broken bone or diabetes is. They’re just different contexts. Psychological “toughness” is a thing, but Biles has shown plenty of it. I don’t think that’s the issue.

I agree that the contexts are different. But having a physical injury like a broken bone IS in fact a weakness. I don't see why it's so taboo to admit a mental injury is also a weakness as well. I'm not saying it's something to be ashamed of though - everyone has weaknesses, and she did what she thought was best for herself.

[Andrew McCeltic]

She didn't cite the kind of "mental issues" you would've expected like "I was having a mental breakdown out there." Her words were she wasn't having fun........ F-U-N. Not to mention she wouldn't rule out the individual competition and her description of the lead up to the Olympics made it seem like she completely forgot what it takes to get there.

It's an age/coddling/entitlement problem coming on the heels of a poor performance. Anyone suggesting otherwise is kidding themselves and creating a reason in their heads that isn't actually coming out of her mouth.

I read her comments in full, you’re right that she only mentions mental health after being asked about Osaka. Seems equally likely it’s her being perfectionistic, putting pressure on herself, and bowing out because she’s genuinely afraid she’s a liability. Real (and sympathetic) psychological conflicts and stressors aren’t exactly “mental health.” But they’re not about “entitlement” either. That harsh attitude tends to produce more problems in the long run. Gymnastics, women’s, is also notorious for abusiveness - not just sexual. Think some of the coaches make Bobby Knight look like Mr. Rogers.

There was a 30 for 30, though, about a Mets catcher who got “the yips”- turned out he had some underlying OCD and I think childhood trauma. It’s always complicated.

[mediocrityrules]

I feel as though the majority of this thread is very supportive and understanding, which is a lot different than if this same thread would have been posted even 10 years ago. I think we've come a long way in understanding and empathizing with mental illness as a community.

This girl is a champion, and has proved it time and again. She owes no one anything. We owe her our utmost respect and understanding.

[nfmos]

I don't know if its been mentioned already, but anyone trying to put Biles down for this needs to google "Elena Mukhina".

The Russian gymnast wont the all-around gold medal at the World Championships in 1978, and then broke her neck in the preparation for the 1980 Olympics doing a routine that she wasn't comfortable doing and was mentally questioning it.

"…my injury could have been expected. It was an accident that could have been anticipated. It was inevitable. I had said more than once that I would break my neck doing that element. I had hurt myself badly several times but my coach Mikhail Klimenko just replied: people like me don't break their necks.

She became a quadriplegic from that injury, and died when she was 46 from complications from it.

We don't know all the concerns or conversations that she had leading up to the Olympics, and even if we did, its none of our damn business what she chooses to do. Until the fans are also literally putting their necks on the line, we need to shut up with all the judgement. Also thats why there are alternate gymnasts, just in case the day of someone has to pull out for whatever reason.

[infinite11285]

Soft move. Competition got tough and she folded simple as that.

i wonder if people really believe bs like this?

Sadly, yes.

It really shows how far some are disconnected from reality. Accusing the most decorated competitor in the sport of running from the competition is particularly outlandish. It's similar to those that accused MJ of being afraid of the Rockets as the reason for his first retirement, despite MJ publicly stating that his departure was due to his own mental issues and loss of competitive drive.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I'm in the middle as well. On one hand, as big a stage this was, gymnastics is just a sport, a game. If pulling out is truly going to result in the betterment of her life and well being, I support her decision, regardless of what others may say. There's no need to wreck your life over what, at the end of the day, is just a game.

On the other hand, I wouldn't go as far to call her "strong" or a "hero" for this decision as some people seem to be suggesting. At the end of the day, she simply wasn't mentally strong enough to perform. Like it or not, that's weakness, not strength. True strength would have been winning the competition.

True mental health isn’t about strength or weakness any more than a broken bone or diabetes is. They’re just different contexts. Psychological “toughness” is a thing, but Biles has shown plenty of it. I don’t think that’s the issue.

I agree that the contexts are different. But having a physical injury like a broken bone IS in fact a weakness. I don't see why it's so taboo to admit a mental injury is also a weakness as well. I'm not saying it's something to be ashamed of though - everyone has weaknesses, and she did what she thought was best for herself. I'm not arguing it wasn't the right move for her to make.

Technically, maybe. Idk. But no one sees Gordon Hayward’s injury and thinks he’s weak, or calls a player soft for getting a fluke ACL tear. Some broken bones are from accidents and forces no one could withstand - it’s not like osteoporosis. There’s just not that negative connotation to it. At most you occasionally get players who draw suspicion that they’re not playing through pain or playing when they could. But again, no one thinks Demarcus Cousins was weak for not “playing through” a ligament tear.. I think mental/psychological should get the same general benefit of the doubt.

[Pelon chingon]

i wonder if people really believe bs like this?

Sadly, yes.

It really shows how far some are disconnected from reality. Accusing the most decorated competitor in the sport of running from the competition is particularly outlandish. It's similar to those that accused MJ of being afraid of the Rockets as the reason for his first retirement, despite MJ publicly stating that his departure was due to his own mental issues and loss of competitive drive.

Nah some of us just appreciate the athletes who demonstrate a higher sense selflessness and patriotism. She stitched on a goat but folded like a lawn chair in front of the Russians SMH. You can champion that type of character all you want but it's clear she was scared. She should have just stayed home instead of embarrassing us on the big stage like she did. Cowardly really.

[Maxthirty]

I have mixed feelings on it all.

On one hand I understand it, it's tough to compete under that pressure and she wasn't at her best. And her mental health is what matters most.

On the other hand, it hurts to see them win silver when they should have been bringing home the gold. And Russia of all countries wins the gold.

Just came here to post about this. Surprising, but I can understand having dealt with mental health issues myself. Obviously it was impacting her...all the pressure. So many stars (mostly in other areas such as actors/musicians) succumb to drugs or other things...but even Michael Phelps...plenty of athletes too.

Better to retire to take care of oneself rather than let the pressure get to where it is too much and get into self medicating.

I really haven't read much into the situation. But if Simone took time off because she needed it for her well-being, that's something that should be commended.