Suggs reportedly had a bad workout with the Raptors

[brownbobcat]

Look at the state of the league and how the game has evolved offensively. Shot creation is by far the most important skill you can have if you want to be a star. Barnes doesn't possess anything offensively beyond some playmaking.

Suggs is getting dinged because he doesn't have a singular tool that is obviously elite, while Barnes despite having major weaknesses gets the benefit of the doubt because he is big and athletic? This is draft bust 101, getting enamored with the physical profile and not the guy who has no discernible weakness to his game and has done it all on the court.

Masai is still caught up in his Giannis dream and Barnes developing into that is the only way he becomes a top 15 guy. That ceiling simply isn't realistic. Suggs from day one is a positive contributor and he has plenty of room to grow and get better. This is why it's a short sighted move.

And there are plenty of guys who could create their shot in college but not the NBA. They're projecting Barnes to become something more than what he is right now. Regardless of whether that happens or not, that's the literal opposite of being shortsighted.

Barnes doesn't look like an elite scorer to me, but neither does Suggs. Sometimes BPA isn't a star. Just because they need one doesn't mean they should throw away picks in a wild goose chase.

[Chandan]

Look at the state of the league and how the game has evolved offensively. Shot creation is by far the most important skill you can have if you want to be a star. Barnes doesn't possess anything offensively beyond some playmaking.

Suggs is getting dinged because he doesn't have a singular tool that is obviously elite, while Barnes despite having major weaknesses gets the benefit of the doubt because he is big and athletic? This is draft bust 101, getting enamored with the physical profile and not the guy who has no discernible weakness to his game and has done it all on the court.

Masai is still caught up in his Giannis dream and Barnes developing into that is the only way he becomes a top 15 guy. That ceiling simply isn't realistic. Suggs from day one is a positive contributor and he has plenty of room to grow and get better. This is why it's a short sighted move.

And there are plenty of guys who could create their shot in college but not the NBA. They're projecting Barnes to become something more than what he is right now. Regardless of whether that happens or not, that's the literal opposite of being shortsighted.

He has plenty of weaknesses, namely his lack of elite speed and length.

[Rebel INS]

i remember Suggs during an interview said he always wanted to stand on a table and celebrate like Wade or Lebron. And he did that after draining the famous game-winner. He had personal glory in mind and wasn't going to give that shot up no matter what. Some might like it but I didn't think he was at the level to warrant that kind of ego just yet.

Also he said something along the lines of now that he's giving up football and concentrating on basketball, it's scary to think how good a player he can become.

Quotes like that show that he has quite a large ego and basketball was never really his first priority, and it did honestly peeved me. Even though I understand it in no way shape or form makes him a lesser basketball player. Given equal talent, I would enjoy watching someone who has the love for the game and tries to be a team player that plays the right way.

lol I'm admittedly a total hypocrite because if we drafted him I'm sure I would've said this stuff doesn't matter, but that pre-draft 'self hypeman' where he sounded like he was quoting realgm suggs draft threads ("he's only now focusing on bball") was kind of offputting. Ultimately cockiness is considered confidence when you back it up, but we've seen generational prospects that don't hype themselves up to the media like that

Course if he pans out, we'll probably be saying "it was that chip on his shoulder what a competitor" in hindsight

I missed the interview but ppl saying his answer to "why do you play basketball" was something to the effect of "making generational wealth" is also weird if true. lol it make sense in the context of pursuing a pro football career vs. basketball and the disparity in contracts (Jrue Holiday makes more than Russell Wilson), but kinda offputting to just say it outright lol

[Chandan]

I missed the interview but ppl saying his answer to "why do you play basketball" was something to the effect of "making generational wealth" is also weird if true. lol it make sense in the context of pursuing a pro football career vs. basketball and the disparity in contracts (Jrue Holiday makes more than Russell Wilson), but kinda offputting to just say it outright lol

he would be an idiot to choose football in this day and age with all the stories about brain injuries.

[OakleyDokely]

We have seen how short sighted this management team has been since Kawhi left so it's not a surprise that a singular bad workout played a part in them passing on a much better prospect. It's incredible how you can ignore the obvious game tape because you get enamored by some length and athleticism.

With all due respect, please give our front office more credit than what you are giving them. You don’t think these guys have watched every minute of game footage that exists for these guys?? They ain’t going off YouTube highlights like fans.

lol scouting isn't a 2 month exercise between the lottery and the draft. (good) NBA teams are scouting top highschool prospects from their senior year, if not earlier (which both Suggs and Barnes were). Realgm posters are watching ballislife highschool mixes of 16 year olds, but we don't think NBA teams don't start building files on guys years in advance

I would be shocked if Barnes wasn't on the raps radar well over a year ago, and if they weren't already evaluating Suggs as a prospect throughout the entire ncaa season

They might be right they might be wrong, but to think they are so incompetent that they just looked at how high a guy jumps and how long his arms are and made a call based off that is kinda arrogant for fans to assume imo. There probably are nba front offices who are that incompetent, but you don't need to think Masai and his staff are infallible to believe they don't fall in that tier

It was mentioned in the presser that the Raps have been scouting Barnes since he was 16/17 years old. Probably the same with Suggs.

Barnes wasn't drafted because of one great workout. Just like Suggs wasn't passed on based on one workout. They've been evaluating these guys for years. These decisions aren't made based on a workout. These are decisions based on years of evaluation and stats.

Selecting the long term project with the higher upside is the opposite of being shortsighted.

[Johnny Bball]

We have seen how short sighted this management team has been since Kawhi left so it's not a surprise that a singular bad workout played a part in them passing on a much better prospect. It's incredible how you can ignore the obvious game tape because you get enamored by some length and athleticism.

It could also be said that those enamored with Suggs (myself included) are shortsighted since they see him being better right away. But down the road we don’t have patience to watch a guy like Barnes develop and go through ups and downs.

Suggs has a higher floor for sure, but I don’t see how it could be debated that Barnes doesn’t have a much higher ceiling.

Masai took a chance on a guy that could bust, but could also turn out to be pretty special over a guy who’s guaranteed to be decent and turn out to just be good. I don’t see Suggs becoming a top 15ish player. I do with Barnes if he reaches his potential. That’s the opposite of shortsighted.

Look at the state of the league and how the game has evolved offensively. Shot creation is by far the most important skill you can have if you want to be a star. Barnes doesn't possess anything offensively beyond some playmaking.

Suggs is getting dinged because he doesn't have a singular tool that is obviously elite, while Barnes despite having major weaknesses gets the benefit of the doubt because he is big and athletic? This is draft bust 101, getting enamored with the physical profile and not the guy who has no discernible weakness to his game and has done it all on the court.

Masai is still caught up in his Giannis dream and Barnes developing into that is the only way he becomes a top 15 guy. That ceiling simply isn't realistic. Suggs from day one is a positive contributor and he has plenty of room to grow and get better. This is why it's a short sighted move.

I suggest you do exactly that, try to figure it out, and maybe you will see why they liked Barnes.

[Pooh_Jeter]

It could also be said that those enamored with Suggs (myself included) are shortsighted since they see him being better right away. But down the road we don’t have patience to watch a guy like Barnes develop and go through ups and downs.

Suggs has a higher floor for sure, but I don’t see how it could be debated that Barnes doesn’t have a much higher ceiling.

Masai took a chance on a guy that could bust, but could also turn out to be pretty special over a guy who’s guaranteed to be decent and turn out to just be good. I don’t see Suggs becoming a top 15ish player. I do with Barnes if he reaches his potential. That’s the opposite of shortsighted.

Look at the state of the league and how the game has evolved offensively. Shot creation is by far the most important skill you can have if you want to be a star. Barnes doesn't possess anything offensively beyond some playmaking.

Suggs is getting dinged because he doesn't have a singular tool that is obviously elite, while Barnes despite having major weaknesses gets the benefit of the doubt because he is big and athletic? This is draft bust 101, getting enamored with the physical profile and not the guy who has no discernible weakness to his game and has done it all on the court.

Masai is still caught up in his Giannis dream and Barnes developing into that is the only way he becomes a top 15 guy. That ceiling simply isn't realistic. Suggs from day one is a positive contributor and he has plenty of room to grow and get better. This is why it's a short sighted move.

I suggest you do exactly that, try to figure it out, and maybe you will see why they liked Barnes.

I see the 76ers desperately trying to trade Ben Simmons, so perhaps you should take your own advice.

[mrdressup]

His workout was not good, but his interview was apparently what was really unimpressive. Our management is dead serious about the character traits it is looking for. Can't blame Masai for sniffing out winners who do all the small things like Lowry has done for us. Barnes is a guy who apparently carries a locker room with his voice and his infectious temperament.

[JohnOmaha]

lol I'm admittedly a total hypocrite because if we drafted him I'm sure I would've said this stuff doesn't matter, but that pre-draft 'self hypeman' where he sounded like he was quoting realgm suggs draft threads ("he's only now focusing on bball") was kind of offputting. Ultimately cockiness is considered confidence when you back it up, but we've seen generational prospects that don't hype themselves up to the media like that

Course if he pans out, we'll probably be saying "it was that chip on his shoulder what a competitor" in hindsight

I had Suggs as my preferred pick at 4 but some of his interview comments weirded me out before the draft, and I would still feel they were weird had we drafted him, and regardless of how he pans out in the future. Not sure if I'd even call it cockiness, but more that some of his answers felt... overly rehearsed? I've been following the league for a while and I've yet to see a prospect repeating the scouting talking points to this extent. Perhaps he's a bit awkward or just following his media team's advice but yeah, that stood out to me.

[Rebel INS]

lol I'm admittedly a total hypocrite because if we drafted him I'm sure I would've said this stuff doesn't matter, but that pre-draft 'self hypeman' where he sounded like he was quoting realgm suggs draft threads ("he's only now focusing on bball") was kind of offputting. Ultimately cockiness is considered confidence when you back it up, but we've seen generational prospects that don't hype themselves up to the media like that

Course if he pans out, we'll probably be saying "it was that chip on his shoulder what a competitor" in hindsight

I had Suggs as my preferred pick at 4 but some of his interview comments weirded me out before the draft, and I would still feel they were weird had we drafted him, and regardless of how he pans out in the future. Not sure if I'd even call it cockiness, but more that some of his answers felt... overly rehearsed? I've been following the league for a while and I've yet to see a prospect repeating the scouting talking points to this extent. Maybe he's just a bit awkward or just following his media team's advice but yeah, that stood out to me.

"talking points" is dead on. Could just be agent/pr team telling him what to say, who knows but it was really odd hearing him say the "played football 6 months of the year" talking point in at least 2 different interviews (prob more) as if he was trying to sell people (scouts? fans? media?) on himself

[nonameguy]

Why is this coming out now? Lmao

Everyone was tight lipped leading up to the draft and now that it happened they are looking for reasons why the first surprise of the draft took place. No need to be secret anymore.

[agkagk]

he chest bumped the air when we didnt draft him.

dude is never going to wear a turtleneck.

[Johnny Bball]

Look at the state of the league and how the game has evolved offensively. Shot creation is by far the most important skill you can have if you want to be a star. Barnes doesn't possess anything offensively beyond some playmaking.

Suggs is getting dinged because he doesn't have a singular tool that is obviously elite, while Barnes despite having major weaknesses gets the benefit of the doubt because he is big and athletic? This is draft bust 101, getting enamored with the physical profile and not the guy who has no discernible weakness to his game and has done it all on the court.

Masai is still caught up in his Giannis dream and Barnes developing into that is the only way he becomes a top 15 guy. That ceiling simply isn't realistic. Suggs from day one is a positive contributor and he has plenty of room to grow and get better. This is why it's a short sighted move.

I suggest you do exactly that, try to figure it out, and maybe you will see why they liked Barnes.

I see the 76ers desperately trying to trade Ben Simmons, so perhaps you should take your own advice.

I saw Draymond Green and GSW change the entire game, the centre position, invent the smallball centre completely changing the position, Draymond pretty much inventing the point centre position, and win championships. But you tell me how that's short sighted again.

Maybe don't talk about the state of the game unless you know which positions are so very hard to fill, which are small ball centre, and talented two way PF/SF.

[kj_]

A source with no affiliation with the raptors “Suggs agent” said he had a bad workout to project that he should have been top 4 except for this bad workout.

I doubt the Raptors FO put much into that “bad workout.”


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[mihaic]

We have seen how short sighted this management team has been since Kawhi left so it's not a surprise that a singular bad workout played a part in them passing on a much better prospect. It's incredible how you can ignore the obvious game tape because you get enamored by some length and athleticism.

No offense I don't want to critique you, but have you thought maybe its you who's shorhtsighted and watched only Suggs highligths? Like some other poster said in full games Suggs looks not as good in half court. His help D also looked bad in the small sample I saw. He was reaching/gambling often, even in clutch he almost lost the semifinal for Gonzaga on Defense. His highlight reel block was a defensive foul, and if called they would have lost.

Also if they Raptors FO were shortsighted (like GSW, Washington, Memphis, etc.) they would not have blatantly tanked. Here is where you are right: they made an error on Ibaka/Gasol as they gambled for Giannis. It backfired, but not because of short sightedness, on the contrary, they were aiming high for the future.

[Marty_Budda]

Look at the state of the league and how the game has evolved offensively. Shot creation is by far the most important skill you can have if you want to be a star. Barnes doesn't possess anything offensively beyond some playmaking.

Suggs is getting dinged because he doesn't have a singular tool that is obviously elite, while Barnes despite having major weaknesses gets the benefit of the doubt because he is big and athletic? This is draft bust 101, getting enamored with the physical profile and not the guy who has no discernible weakness to his game and has done it all on the court.

Masai is still caught up in his Giannis dream and Barnes developing into that is the only way he becomes a top 15 guy. That ceiling simply isn't realistic. Suggs from day one is a positive contributor and he has plenty of room to grow and get better. This is why it's a short sighted move.

I suggest you do exactly that, try to figure it out, and maybe you will see why they liked Barnes.

I see the 76ers desperately trying to trade Ben Simmons, so perhaps you should take your own advice.

Ben Simmons is a mental midget. By all account Barnes seems more aggressive. The bucks just won with giannis who switches everything, can handle the ball and playmake, not a good shooter. Barnes doesn’t have the length of Giannis but his shot and body is way more developed than Giannis’ at the same age.

Davis the year before is also another guy who’s similar in that he switches, can handle the ball and make plays, more polished shooter but also not as aggressive.

Pascal Siakam the year before

Draymond green the year before

Needless to say, these types of players are really valuable, and we have god damn 3 of em.

[OakleyDokely]

I suggest you do exactly that, try to figure it out, and maybe you will see why they liked Barnes.

I see the 76ers desperately trying to trade Ben Simmons, so perhaps you should take your own advice.

I saw Draymond Green and GSW change the entire game, the centre position, invent the smallball centre completely changing the position, Draymond pretty much inventing the point centre position, and win championships. But you tell me how that's short sighted again.

Maybe don't talk about the state of the game unless you know which positions are so very hard to fill, which are small ball centre, and talented two way PF/SF.

By the way, it was reported that Presti was trying to trade up to 4...to take Barnes.

So Presti, another shortsighted GM.

[DreamTeam09]

I'm not gonna doubt mgmt who get to sit down with these guys and get to have interviews and see these guys in live action.

That's the best way to evaluate someone, none of us have talked to these guys and see them live, and mgmt did both of those things and thought Barnes was the BPA. I'm rocking with that

[mihaic]

Why is this coming out now? Lmao

Everyone was tight lipped leading up to the draft and now that it happened they are looking for reasons why the first surprise of the draft took place. No need to be secret anymore.

raptors were probably nice to not make it public and hurt the guys' stock so probably that is why. Raps FO are not like Philly.

[Pooh_Jeter]

I suggest you do exactly that, try to figure it out, and maybe you will see why they liked Barnes.

I see the 76ers desperately trying to trade Ben Simmons, so perhaps you should take your own advice.

I saw Draymond Green and GSW change the entire game, the centre position, invent the smallball centre completely changing the position, Draymond pretty much inventing the point centre position, and win championships. But you tell me how that's short sighted again.

Maybe don't talk about the state of the game unless you know which positions are so very hard to fill, which are small ball centre, and talented two way PF/SF.

You think that Steph Curry and Klay Thompson were important to that equation? Draymond was an elite role player for them, Steph was and is clearly what made everything else work. Draymond right now isn't even a top 50 player in the league. KD was far more important to the team when he joined as well.

Perhaps don't attempt to speak as a historian of the game just to try and justify your own argument.