Suggs reportedly had a bad workout with the Raptors

[Pooh_Jeter]

I see the 76ers desperately trying to trade Ben Simmons, so perhaps you should take your own advice.

I saw Draymond Green and GSW change the entire game, the centre position, invent the smallball centre completely changing the position, Draymond pretty much inventing the point centre position, and win championships. But you tell me how that's short sighted again.

Maybe don't talk about the state of the game unless you know which positions are so very hard to fill, which are small ball centre, and talented two way PF/SF.

By the way, it was reported that Presti was trying to trade up to 4...to take Barnes.

So Presti, another shortsighted GM.

Wait, you believe news reports again? That's pretty convenient.

[Danny1616]

I see the 76ers desperately trying to trade Ben Simmons, so perhaps you should take your own advice.

I saw Draymond Green and GSW change the entire game, the centre position, invent the smallball centre completely changing the position, Draymond pretty much inventing the point centre position, and win championships. But you tell me how that's short sighted again.

Maybe don't talk about the state of the game unless you know which positions are so very hard to fill, which are small ball centre, and talented two way PF/SF.

You think that Steph Curry and Klay Thompson were important to that equation? Draymond was an elite role player for them, Steph was and is clearly what made everything else work. Draymond right now isn't even a top 50 player in the league. KD was far more important to the team when he joined as well.

Perhaps don't attempt to speak as a historian of the game just to try and justify your own argument.

How do you know Barnes' ceiling is Draymond?

Also, do you think Suggs, Kaminga, Wagner, and Giddey can be as good as Steph and Klay?

[Pooh_Jeter]

I saw Draymond Green and GSW change the entire game, the centre position, invent the smallball centre completely changing the position, Draymond pretty much inventing the point centre position, and win championships. But you tell me how that's short sighted again.

Maybe don't talk about the state of the game unless you know which positions are so very hard to fill, which are small ball centre, and talented two way PF/SF.

You think that Steph Curry and Klay Thompson were important to that equation? Draymond was an elite role player for them, Steph was and is clearly what made everything else work. Draymond right now isn't even a top 50 player in the league. KD was far more important to the team when he joined as well.

Perhaps don't attempt to speak as a historian of the game just to try and justify your own argument.

How do you know Barnes' ceiling is Draymond?

Also, do you think Suggs, Kaminga, Wagner, and Giddey can be as good as Steph and Klay?

What do Kuminga, Wagner and Giddey have to do with anything?

Suggs is Brandon Roy/Billups.

Barnes has no offensive game outside of some play making and ball handling right now and has a lot of upside defensively. It doesn't make sense to factor in a part of the game someone doesn't show any semblance of possessing as any type of realistic ceiling. It's lazy to deem that any big guy who is athletic and can handle the ball some has a HOF/top 5 player in the league ceiling. That is literally the 0.0001% outlier. At that point you can label any player as having a HOF upside.

[agkagk]

A source with no affiliation with the raptors “Suggs agent” said he had a bad workout to project that he should have been top 4 except for this bad workout.

I doubt the Raptors FO put much into that “bad workout.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bad workout can mean sh*tty personality/difficult to work with.

Hence the he tanked his workout narrative.

[Danny1616]

You think that Steph Curry and Klay Thompson were important to that equation? Draymond was an elite role player for them, Steph was and is clearly what made everything else work. Draymond right now isn't even a top 50 player in the league. KD was far more important to the team when he joined as well.

Perhaps don't attempt to speak as a historian of the game just to try and justify your own argument.

How do you know Barnes' ceiling is Draymond?

Also, do you think Suggs, Kaminga, Wagner, and Giddey can be as good as Steph and Klay?

What do Kuminga, Wagner and Giddey have to do with anything?

Suggs is Brandon Roy/Billups.

Barnes has no offensive game outside of some play making and ball handling right now and has a lot of upside defensively. It doesn't make sense to factor in a part of the game someone doesn't show any semblance of possessing as any type of realistic ceiling. It's lazy to deem that any big guy who is athletic and can handle the ball some has a HOF/top 5 player in the league ceiling. That is literally the 0.0001% outlier. At that point you can label any player as having a HOF upside.

How do you know that Suggs is Roy/Billups?

Also lets say Suggs turns into Billups...was Billups ever a top 5 player in the league? He was more of a top 15-20 player in his prime. Billups also took about 6 years to actually reach his potential and was bounced across multiple teams early on in his career (including us).

Look I'm not saying you are going to be wrong, we don't know yet how these guys will look at the next level. Also both Suggs and Barnes are only 19 years old, which makes it even harder to predict their ceiling.

You are making absolute definitive conclusions without even seeing them play an NBA game.

My question to you before which you failed to answer - did you watch every Gonzaga and Florida St. game last year? If lets say you only watched March Madness, how can you realistically make definitive conclusions on both players and their ceilings?

[Pooh_Jeter]

How do you know Barnes' ceiling is Draymond?

Also, do you think Suggs, Kaminga, Wagner, and Giddey can be as good as Steph and Klay?

What do Kuminga, Wagner and Giddey have to do with anything?

Suggs is Brandon Roy/Billups.

Barnes has no offensive game outside of some play making and ball handling right now and has a lot of upside defensively. It doesn't make sense to factor in a part of the game someone doesn't show any semblance of possessing as any type of realistic ceiling. It's lazy to deem that any big guy who is athletic and can handle the ball some has a HOF/top 5 player in the league ceiling. That is literally the 0.0001% outlier. At that point you can label any player as having a HOF upside.

How do you know that Suggs is Roy/Billups?

Also lets say Suggs turns into Billups...was Billups ever a top 5 player in the league? He was more of a top 15-20 player in his prime. Billups also took about 6 years to actually reach his potential and was bounced across multiple teams early on in his career (including us).

Look I'm not saying you are going to be wrong, we don't know yet how these guys will look at the next level. Also both Suggs and Barnes are only 19 years old, which makes it even harder to predict their ceiling.

You are making absolute definitive conclusions without even seeing them play an NBA game.

My question to you before which you failed to answer - did you watch every Gonzaga and Florida St. game last year? If lets say you only watched March Madness, how can you realistically make definitive conclusions on both players and their ceilings?

You do realize that even if I watched every single game Suggs and Barnes played from birth I couldn't definitively tell you what their ceiling is, right? You can make educated guesses based on the games you do watch and listening and reading to the analysis from the most plugged in and knowledgeable sources.

I haven't made any definitive statements, just my own opinion. This is a message board, no need for you to gate keep discussion to that degree.

[Danny1616]

What do Kuminga, Wagner and Giddey have to do with anything?

Suggs is Brandon Roy/Billups.

Barnes has no offensive game outside of some play making and ball handling right now and has a lot of upside defensively. It doesn't make sense to factor in a part of the game someone doesn't show any semblance of possessing as any type of realistic ceiling. It's lazy to deem that any big guy who is athletic and can handle the ball some has a HOF/top 5 player in the league ceiling. That is literally the 0.0001% outlier. At that point you can label any player as having a HOF upside.

How do you know that Suggs is Roy/Billups?

Also lets say Suggs turns into Billups...was Billups ever a top 5 player in the league? He was more of a top 15-20 player in his prime. Billups also took about 6 years to actually reach his potential and was bounced across multiple teams early on in his career (including us).

Look I'm not saying you are going to be wrong, we don't know yet how these guys will look at the next level. Also both Suggs and Barnes are only 19 years old, which makes it even harder to predict their ceiling.

You are making absolute definitive conclusions without even seeing them play an NBA game.

My question to you before which you failed to answer - did you watch every Gonzaga and Florida St. game last year? If lets say you only watched March Madness, how can you realistically make definitive conclusions on both players and their ceilings?

You do realize that even if I watched every single game Suggs and Barnes played from birth I couldn't definitively tell you what their ceiling is, right? You can make educated guesses based on the games you do watch and listening and reading to the analysis from the most plugged in and knowledgeable sources.

I haven't made any definitive statements, just my own opinion. This is a message board, no need for you to gate keep discussion to that degree.

You made definitive conclusions. You said Suggs is Roy/Billups and that he had a much higher ceiling than Barnes.

My question to you was simple - did you watch most or all of Gonzaga and Florida St. games this season?

If not, then you are simply a dude watching YouTube highlights, reading mock drafts weeks before the draft, and then acting like you know everything.

[Tacoma]

Masai is infamous for taking his time to evaluate, so it's highly unlikely the decision to pass on Suggs was due to any one thing like a bad workout, a bad interview or a big ego. It's more likely that he analyzed, evaluated & decided that Barnes was the better fit.

Most drafts I read had him being selected #5 right after Suggs, so he moved up only 1 slot in the draft. Here's what one draft report said of Barnes: "Incredible physical profile, with long arms and a huge, bulky frame mixed with quickness. Most importantly, he plays with a relentless defensive mindset." This sound like a set qualities that both Masai and Nurse value highly.

He's a very good facilitator and playmaker but needs to work on his jump shot, in particular on the perimeter. His shooting mechanics need to change. Excellent defense, can't shoot, this sounds like a Ben Simmons type or maybe early Siakam. Will need time & patience to develop. Looks like we'll continue in development mode rather than win-now mode in the near future.

[ac1011990]

I’m honestly kind of confused at this pick, it has nothing to do with Barnes but when I look at everything as a whole, I’m kind of disappointed. The front office has obviously proved themselves and I’ll give them the full benefit of the doubt, but and I’ll list the reasons as to why I’m feeling the way I am.

1) Lowry is almost 100% gone and we’re linked to players like Lonzo and Dinwiddie for crying out loud, it’s obvious the front office doesn’t view FVV as the long term starting PG. I’m not saying FVV is going to be traded or that’s a ding on him, it’s just that he’s more valuable when you have a starting caliber PG alongside him, like a Lowry. I would have much rather taken Suggs over paying Lonzo or Spencer 20 mil plus. The alternative is forcing Fred to become a pass first PG or hoping Flynn becomes the next Lowry. We literally have a massive hole at our previously strongest position.

2) I really doubt Raps are going to give Barnes a lot of PG duties, if that’s the case, at this point, he’s completely useless as a player standing around waiting for FVV to pass it to him, considering he can’t do much offensively. It’s pretty much the 76ers situation without an MVP caliber player offsetting the lack of offense. We’ve all witnessed the beauty of McCaw and Johnson, that’s what we’re getting for awhile.

2) Barnes is super raw and when games mattered most (in 3 post season games) he shrunk. Dude averaged 6 points 3 assists 2 rebounds and almost 4 turnovers. In his first 2 of the postseason, he was scared to shoot, taking a whopping 4 shots total. His 3rd game, he took 11 shots and made 4. The Raps as constructed really do not need an all defence no offence guy. There is no indication that Barnes is going to develop a passable offensive game anytime soon, anyone can go into the gym and drain a few wide open jumpers. Young players who can’t shot or have 0 offensive game usually don’t come into the NBA and become MJ right away.

3) This is going to be another confusing season, we absolutely did not get better in any position. We are losing Lowry, most likely without getting anything back and half our team is win now and the other half is a few years away. I’m not saying Suggs is going to be a Lowry replacement, especially his first year but I’m almost 100% certain he would have helped with the loss of Lowry more then Barnes will in the first year. Masai and company have some super hard decisions to make coming up. This squad is a mess and the older guys and fans are going to become real tired after a season or 2. I’m fine with a complete rebuild, picking Barnes is kind of an indication that’s the direction they chose but I don’t want the front office pretending we are still competitive at this point.

I went into this tanking season thinking it was going to be a quick turnaround, boy was I wrong. Buckle up kids, this is going to be a messy long rodeo. Your going to see a lot of ups and downs and possibly a lot of drastic changes coming the Raps way. Either way, welcome Barnes and I hope he lives up to his potential.

[Jenga_tDot]

Suggs workout gossip.

[redeye514]

People do know that Masai essentially started in the NBA as a volunteer scout, right? Worked for free scouting no name kids in no name cities for no money.. and then elevated his career from there to the point of being one of the most (if not THE most) respected bball minds in the whole game.

But yeah, my opinion, based on some highlight reels, allow me to confidently conclude that I know more than him. I will not hear otherwise.. and if you question me, I will question your willingness to be a follower, like the sheep that you are.

[OakleyDokely]

I saw Draymond Green and GSW change the entire game, the centre position, invent the smallball centre completely changing the position, Draymond pretty much inventing the point centre position, and win championships. But you tell me how that's short sighted again.

Maybe don't talk about the state of the game unless you know which positions are so very hard to fill, which are small ball centre, and talented two way PF/SF.

By the way, it was reported that Presti was trying to trade up to 4...to take Barnes.

So Presti, another shortsighted GM.

Wait, you believe news reports again? That's pretty convenient.

I always believed reputable news sources, not the Philly version of Doug Smith or Grange.

I guess Presti is shortsighted as well.

[Johnny Bball]

I see the 76ers desperately trying to trade Ben Simmons, so perhaps you should take your own advice.

I saw Draymond Green and GSW change the entire game, the centre position, invent the smallball centre completely changing the position, Draymond pretty much inventing the point centre position, and win championships. But you tell me how that's short sighted again.

Maybe don't talk about the state of the game unless you know which positions are so very hard to fill, which are small ball centre, and talented two way PF/SF.

You think that Steph Curry and Klay Thompson were important to that equation? Draymond was an elite role player for them, Steph was and is clearly what made everything else work. Draymond right now isn't even a top 50 player in the league. KD was far more important to the team when he joined as well.

Perhaps don't attempt to speak as a historian of the game just to try and justify your own argument.

Yeah, Draymond Green - Elite role player? Allstar and DPOY and Kerr's decision to put him at C put that team over the top. I'm not speaking as a historian, just someone that simply understands the basics of basketball. And you really don't understand this game half as well as you think you do. Role player....

Oh.... and the easiest position to fill? Point guard.

[Pooh_Jeter]

I saw Draymond Green and GSW change the entire game, the centre position, invent the smallball centre completely changing the position, Draymond pretty much inventing the point centre position, and win championships. But you tell me how that's short sighted again.

Maybe don't talk about the state of the game unless you know which positions are so very hard to fill, which are small ball centre, and talented two way PF/SF.

You think that Steph Curry and Klay Thompson were important to that equation? Draymond was an elite role player for them, Steph was and is clearly what made everything else work. Draymond right now isn't even a top 50 player in the league. KD was far more important to the team when he joined as well.

Perhaps don't attempt to speak as a historian of the game just to try and justify your own argument.

Yeah, Draymond Green - Elite role player? Allstar and DPOY and Kerr's decision to put him at C put that team over the top. I'm not speaking as a historian, just someone that simply understands the basics of basketball. And you really don't understand this game half as well as you think you do. Role player....

Oh.... and the easiest position to fill? Point guard.

Rudy Gobert, Joakim Noah, Ben Wallace and Tyson Chandler. All were DPOY, all stars and are/were role players.

These are still obviously good and valuable players, but they aren't what you build a team around. It's unfortunate that you would rather argue and roll your eyes at me than have any sort of worthwhile discussion.

[OakleyDokely]

You think that Steph Curry and Klay Thompson were important to that equation? Draymond was an elite role player for them, Steph was and is clearly what made everything else work. Draymond right now isn't even a top 50 player in the league. KD was far more important to the team when he joined as well.

Perhaps don't attempt to speak as a historian of the game just to try and justify your own argument.

Yeah, Draymond Green - Elite role player? Allstar and DPOY and Kerr's decision to put him at C put that team over the top. I'm not speaking as a historian, just someone that simply understands the basics of basketball. And you really don't understand this game half as well as you think you do. Role player....

Oh.... and the easiest position to fill? Point guard.

Rudy Gobert, Joakim Noah, Ben Wallace and Tyson Chandler. All were DPOY, all stars and are/were role players.

These are still obviously good and valuable players, but they aren't what you build a team around. It's unfortunate that you would rather argue and roll your eyes at me than have any sort of worthwhile discussion.

Ben Wallace is a hall of famer by the way.

[T.OTowers]

Not sure if this has been posted or if anybody has paid attention but it looks like Suggs never wanted to play here. At the 8 second mark if you look at Suggs reaction, he flexes his arms when he hears his name isnt called and then starts clapping for Barnes.

Its funny how the Raptors twitter decided to show this clip, focusing more on Suggs reaction. Strange camera angle. If this isnt telling than I dont know what is..

Read on Twitter

[Jerry Lucas]

Suggs workout gossip.

And why should we believe this person at face value? What credibility do they have?

[powerhouse117]

We have seen how short sighted this management team has been since Kawhi left so it's not a surprise that a singular bad workout played a part in them passing on a much better prospect. It's incredible how you can ignore the obvious game tape because you get enamored by some length and athleticism.

With all due respect, please give our front office more credit than what you are giving them. You don’t think these guys have watched every minute of game footage that exists for these guys?? They ain’t going off YouTube highlights like fans.

Since Kawhi left what positive moves have they made? If Danny Ainge can't get the benefit of the doubt despite having Tatum/Brown why should they?

Once Kawhi left, the front office took a calculated gamble to go after Giannis and I have no problem with them doing so despite failing. It didn't require them to completely clear the deck and allowed for a fairly easy pivot. It's a pretty shrewd gamble on their part.

[Johnny Bball]

You think that Steph Curry and Klay Thompson were important to that equation? Draymond was an elite role player for them, Steph was and is clearly what made everything else work. Draymond right now isn't even a top 50 player in the league. KD was far more important to the team when he joined as well.

Perhaps don't attempt to speak as a historian of the game just to try and justify your own argument.

Yeah, Draymond Green - Elite role player? Allstar and DPOY and Kerr's decision to put him at C put that team over the top. I'm not speaking as a historian, just someone that simply understands the basics of basketball. And you really don't understand this game half as well as you think you do. Role player....

Oh.... and the easiest position to fill? Point guard.

Rudy Gobert, Joakim Noah, Ben Wallace and Tyson Chandler. All were DPOY, all stars and are/were role players.

These are still obviously good and valuable players, but they aren't what you build a team around. It's unfortunate that you would rather argue and roll your eyes at me than have any sort of worthwhile discussion.

I can't have a discussion with you because you don't respond honestly. You just talked about players that the game passed by and call them role players and you consider them that now because THE **** GAME CHANGED BECAUSE THE GSW AND DRAYMOND GREEN CHANGED IT.

Oh and if I'm going to get blamed for rolling my eyes... then here

[ac1011990]

Suggs workout gossip.

And why should we believe this person at face value? What credibility do they have?

Lol because we have selected Barnes and what this rando on the internet is saying will help some of us feel better about the pick.