2021 Draft

[Saberestar]

Shamet is better than anyone at pick 29 and is a shoe in for the Suns system.

Jevon Carter is going to be missed him not playing rotation minutes in the playoffs was telling. He was clearly a backup to a healthy Payne. This also means Suns going all out to keep Payne.

We don't know if Shamet will be better than anyone at #29. We could have drafted Queta, and just re-signed Galloway, all while keeping a junkyard dog defender. And if we don't keep Payne, do you really see Shamet taking that third guard spot?

The only thing that Shamet has, is Monty's trust. I am just concerned now that Monty will give away minutes to a guy, who frankly isn't any more impressive than vet min guys we already have, and could easily retain.

Shamet is GOOD. Watch some highlights from him, I think you are gonna LOVE him because he is pretty similar to Cam Johnson but as a SG.

He is one of the best 3p shooters around the league, smart player and a capable ball handler.

[RunDogGun]

Shamet is an UPGRADE. Check the advanced stats better defender and 3pt shooter, played more mins and still had a better shooting on lower usage. The 29 wasnt going to crack the rotation get over it. Ya’ll also complaining about not bringing in undrafted players We were in the finals and need players with experience to get back there, we have enough young talent now we need pieces to get us over the top. We are bringing all the core pieces from the team back now just need some vet mins to fill out the roster.

Galloway was the better shooter last year in every catagory. What are you talking about? You don't know if the #29 would crack the rotation or not, since we could have drafted Queta, who fills a need we currently have, and Shamet could never ever ever ever fill.

We lost the finals because we didn't have a defensive big to come in when Ayton sat, it wasn't because we didn't have enough shooters. According to facts and data, Shamet is not an upgrade from what we currently have, or could get with re-signing.

Just so we have this straight, you are telling me that 41,39,85% shooting is better than 45,42,96% shooting...right?

Who's minutes is Shamet taking since Carter barely got minutes?

[thamadkant]

Shamet is better than anyone at pick 29 and is a shoe in for the Suns system.

Jevon Carter is going to be missed him not playing rotation minutes in the playoffs was telling. He was clearly a backup to a healthy Payne. This also means Suns going all out to keep Payne.

We don't know if Shamet will be better than anyone at #29. We could have drafted Queta, and just re-signed Galloway, all while keeping a junkyard dog defender. And if we don't keep Payne, do you really see Shamet taking that third guard spot?

The only thing that Shamet has, is Monty's trust. I am just concerned now that Monty will give away minutes to a guy, who frankly isn't any more impressive than vet min guys we already have, and could easily retain.

Let me re phrase.

Shamet is better than anyone at pick 29 because he will be playing minutes helping the Suns get deeper. Pick 29 sits and plays garbage minutes.
Pick 29 is fine for a team that has deep rotation or if the player is a veteran euro player or stash.

This season no one fita the latter description for Suns... A Ginobili or Jokic aren't available every season.

[RunDogGun]

Shamet is better than anyone at pick 29 and is a shoe in for the Suns system.

Jevon Carter is going to be missed him not playing rotation minutes in the playoffs was telling. He was clearly a backup to a healthy Payne. This also means Suns going all out to keep Payne.

We don't know if Shamet will be better than anyone at #29. We could have drafted Queta, and just re-signed Galloway, all while keeping a junkyard dog defender. And if we don't keep Payne, do you really see Shamet taking that third guard spot?

The only thing that Shamet has, is Monty's trust. I am just concerned now that Monty will give away minutes to a guy, who frankly isn't any more impressive than vet min guys we already have, and could easily retain.

Shamet is GOOD. Watch some highlights from him, I think you are gonna LOVE him because he is pretty similar to Cam Johnson but as a SG.

He is one of the best 3p shooters around the league, smart player and a capable ball handler.

Who's minutes is he taking? He isn't as good of a defender as Johnson is. I still haven't heard an argument to justify throwing in the #29 pick. According to the stats, Shamet is not a good defender, and shot worse than Galloway. So if Monty isn't going to trust Galloway, who's minutes will a lesser shooter in Shamet going to take? And is that worth a defensive big like Queta?

[Sal85012]

Shamet is an UPGRADE. Check the advanced stats better defender and 3pt shooter, played more mins and still had a better shooting on lower usage. The 29 wasnt going to crack the rotation get over it. Ya’ll also complaining about not bringing in undrafted players We were in the finals and need players with experience to get back there, we have enough young talent now we need pieces to get us over the top. We are bringing all the core pieces from the team back now just need some vet mins to fill out the roster.

Galloway was the better shooter last year in every catagory. What are you talking about? You don't know if the #29 would crack the rotation or not, since we could have drafted Queta, who fills a need we currently have, and Shamet could never ever ever ever fill.

We lost the finals because we didn't have a defensive big to come in when Ayton sat, it wasn't because we didn't have enough shooters. According to facts and data, Shamet is not an upgrade from what we currently have, or could get with re-signing.

Just so we have this straight, you are telling me that 41,39,85% shooting is better than 45,42,96% shooting...right?

Who's minutes is Shamet taking since Carter barely got minutes?

lol you really gonna throw out percentages for a guy that played 400 mins compared to one that played 1400 mins.

[RunDogGun]

Shamet is better than anyone at pick 29 and is a shoe in for the Suns system.

Jevon Carter is going to be missed him not playing rotation minutes in the playoffs was telling. He was clearly a backup to a healthy Payne. This also means Suns going all out to keep Payne.

We don't know if Shamet will be better than anyone at #29. We could have drafted Queta, and just re-signed Galloway, all while keeping a junkyard dog defender. And if we don't keep Payne, do you really see Shamet taking that third guard spot?

The only thing that Shamet has, is Monty's trust. I am just concerned now that Monty will give away minutes to a guy, who frankly isn't any more impressive than vet min guys we already have, and could easily retain.

Let me re phrase.

Shamet is better than anyone at pick 29 because he will be playing minutes helping the Suns get deeper. Pick 29 sits and plays garbage minutes.
Pick 29 is fine for a team that has deep rotation or if the player is a veteran euro player or stash.

This season no one fita the latter description for Suns... A Ginobili or Jokic aren't available every season.

Again we don't know what the #29 player could do for us. Shamet can not do what Queta can. In fact, the only thing Shamet is known for is shooting, and again, Galloway out did him in 2pt%, 3pt%, and ft%.

A draft pick now, in a draft that had solid players at two of our needs, to a team that finally created a culture worthy of developing players, should be a no brainer. Now if we had at least gotten the first second round pick from the Nets, this move would be a lateral move for me. Trading a defensive guard for an offensive guard, an late first for an early second. As of now, it was a waste of a first round pick, for number wise, something we already had, and refused to use.

[sunsbg]

Always amused when some guy over the Internet tries to act like he knows better than coaches/GMs who spend all their time on the court/locker room with the players.

[RunDogGun]

Shamet is an UPGRADE. Check the advanced stats better defender and 3pt shooter, played more mins and still had a better shooting on lower usage. The 29 wasnt going to crack the rotation get over it. Ya’ll also complaining about not bringing in undrafted players We were in the finals and need players with experience to get back there, we have enough young talent now we need pieces to get us over the top. We are bringing all the core pieces from the team back now just need some vet mins to fill out the roster.

Galloway was the better shooter last year in every catagory. What are you talking about? You don't know if the #29 would crack the rotation or not, since we could have drafted Queta, who fills a need we currently have, and Shamet could never ever ever ever fill.

We lost the finals because we didn't have a defensive big to come in when Ayton sat, it wasn't because we didn't have enough shooters. According to facts and data, Shamet is not an upgrade from what we currently have, or could get with re-signing.

Just so we have this straight, you are telling me that 41,39,85% shooting is better than 45,42,96% shooting...right?

Who's minutes is Shamet taking since Carter barely got minutes?

lol you really gonna throw out percentages for a guy that played 400 mins compared to one that played 1400 mins.

Oh, I am sorry, maybe I should have lied, and said Shamet shot better than Galloway. Galloway was great for the Suns. He came in ready to play every game, and he was always super positive. If we failed to use a FACTUALLY better shooter in Galloway, its a fact Galloway shot better in every % category than Shamet, what is the point of trading away the #29 and a defensive guard, for something we already had, but failed to use?

Who's minutes is Shamet taking? Don't bother responding if you can't answer that question.

[RunDogGun]

Always amused when some guy over the Internet tries to act like he knows better than coaches/GMs who spend all their time on the court/locker room with the players.

I am always amused when someone tries to argue something without using facts. So who's minutes is Monty giving to Shamet? I mean it should not be hard to figure out that Monty is either going to give Shamet the minutes Carter had, or have to take minutes from someone else. Who's minutes will he be taking?

And if he isn't taking anyone's minutes, why did we trade away the #29 pick, for a guy that shot worse than a deep bench player, who we could sign for the vet min?

Side note, Galloway shot better than Shamet in 2pt%, 3pt%, and ft%. Why didn't we use him more during the season, and why is a lesser shooter a better replacement.

[sunsbg]

Always amused when some guy over the Internet tries to act like he knows better than coaches/GMs who spend all their time on the court/locker room with the players.

I am always amused when someone tries to argue something without using facts. So who's minutes is Monty giving to Shamet? I mean it should not be hard to figure out that Monty is either going to give Shamet the minutes Carter had, or have to take minutes from someone else. Who's minutes will he be taking?

And if he isn't taking anyone's minutes, why did we trade away the #29 pick, for a guy that shot worse than a deep bench player, who we could sign for the vet min?

Side note, Galloway shot better than Shamet in 2pt%, 3pt%, and ft%. Why didn't we use him more during the season, and why is a lesser shooter a better replacement.

About the minutes distribution it's a common sense and already answered above (hint : WeekapaugGroove's post), but in summary injuries happen and CP3 is old, so Shamet, who will be one of first players off the bench will get minutes, don't even slightly worry about that. At some point you will have to realize coaches/GMs/90% of this board think he's better player than Galloway, who as I said may still be a Sun next season, so I have no clue why you insist on comparing the two. He's a min contract on the end of the bench, Suns need a few of those to complete the roster.

[Barkley6]

Always amused when some guy over the Internet tries to act like he knows better than coaches/GMs who spend all their time on the court/locker room with the players.

I am always amused when someone tries to argue something without using facts. So who's minutes is Monty giving to Shamet? I mean it should not be hard to figure out that Monty is either going to give Shamet the minutes Carter had, or have to take minutes from someone else. Who's minutes will he be taking?

And if he isn't taking anyone's minutes, why did we trade away the #29 pick, for a guy that shot worse than a deep bench player, who we could sign for the vet min?

Side note, Galloway shot better than Shamet in 2pt%, 3pt%, and ft%. Why didn't we use him more during the season, and why is a lesser shooter a better replacement.

There are 96 guard minutes available.

I imagine Book takes 34 of those, CP3 30, Payne 18, which leaves 14 minutes per night available for Shamet. That's a great role for him, 14 minutes a night on a contending team seems about right. Carter and Galloway played those 14 minutes last year and neither one was convincing and locked up the position.

Last season both Galloway and Shamet played for teams most would consider 'contenders', lets break it down:

Galloway scored more than 15 points off the bench 1 time last year. In the 5 games he got over 20 minutes, he hit double figures twice.
Shamet scored more than 15 points off the bench 12 times last year. in the 39 games he got over 20 minutes he hit double figures 22 times.

So you tell me who is the better bench scorer. The guy who consistently got more minutes, and did more in the minutes he got? Or the guy who couldn't hold down his spot in the rotation?

[RunDogGun]

About the minutes distribution it's a common sense and already answered above (hint : WeekapaugGroove's post), but in summary injuries happen and CP3 is old, so Shamet, who will be one of first players off the bench will get minutes, don't even slightly worry about that. At some point you will have to realize coaches/GMs/90% of this board think he's better player than Galloway, who as I said may still be a Sun next season, so I have no clue why you insist on comparing the two. He's a min contract on the end of the bench, Suns need a few of those to complete the roster.

I continue to bring Galloway up, because we essentially traded a first round pick and a junkyard dog defender for a guy that shoots worse than a deep bench player we already have and rarely used.

Shamet averages 1.6 in assists. If he is our first guard off the bench, then he is a downgrade from what we currently have. As I have said a number of times, I would be fine with the lateral move had we secured a second rounder from the Nets. But its pretty simple Math, we traded a deep bench guy who got 12 mins per game, for a guy who is slightly a better shooter with worse defense that got 23 minutes per game. We didn't utilize a better shooter in Galloway, so why waste a first rounder on a guy who shot worse than a deeper bench guy?

We can complete our roster without wasting controlled rookie contacts, and with guys that shoot better and play better defense than Shamet.

And I never said Galloway was a better player, I simply pointed out that Galloway shot better in every category, and we failed to use that shooting, even in games where he scored 17 points in one quarter. It seems moronic to waste a first rounder on a lesser shooter, if shooting is his only thing.

[Barkley6]

About the minutes distribution it's a common sense and already answered above (hint : WeekapaugGroove's post), but in summary injuries happen and CP3 is old, so Shamet, who will be one of first players off the bench will get minutes, don't even slightly worry about that. At some point you will have to realize coaches/GMs/90% of this board think he's better player than Galloway, who as I said may still be a Sun next season, so I have no clue why you insist on comparing the two. He's a min contract on the end of the bench, Suns need a few of those to complete the roster.

I continue to bring Galloway up, because we essentially traded a first round pick and a junkyard dog defender for a guy that shoots worse than a deep bench player we already have and rarely used.

Shamet averages 1.6 in assists. If he is our first guard off the bench, then he is a downgrade from what we currently have. As I have said a number of times, I would be fine with the lateral move had we secured a second rounder from the Nets. But its pretty simple Math, we traded a deep bench guy who got 12 mins per game, for a guy who is slightly a better shooter with worse defense that got 23 minutes per game. We didn't utilize a better shooter in Galloway, so why waste a first rounder on a guy who shot worse than a deeper bench guy?

We can complete our roster without wasting controlled rookie contacts, and with guys that shoot better and play better defense than Shamet.

And I never said Galloway was a better player, I simply pointed out that Galloway shot better in every category, and we failed to use that shooting, even in games where he scored 17 points in one quarter. It seems moronic to waste a first rounder on a lesser shooter, if shooting is his only thing.

Carter wasn't good. I loved him in the bubble, but when he played in the regular season he just looked useless. Even his defense wasn't a needle mover. We swapped him for a guy who played meaningful minutes on a championship contending team.

Pick 29 was a gamble. Could we have netted a player that cracked the rotation? Sure. But even our lottery pick last year didn't crack our rotation, so why would a lesser rated guy? Yes, there are always surprises in the draft, but I don't think we want to bank too much on that. We upgraded Carter, and have the ability to bring in or bring back someone who is deserving of NBA minutes. Remember because of Saric's injury, we only in reality have 14 roster spots because Dario eats one, so we don't really have space on our roster for a project.

[RunDogGun]

There are 96 guard minutes available.

I imagine Book takes 34 of those, CP3 30, Payne 18, which leaves 14 minutes per night available for Shamet. That's a great role for him, 14 minutes a night on a contending team seems about right. Carter and Galloway played those 14 minutes last year and neither one was convincing and locked up the position.

Last season both Galloway and Shamet played for teams most would consider 'contenders', lets break it down:

Galloway scored more than 15 points off the bench 1 time last year. In the 5 games he got over 20 minutes, he hit double figures twice.
Shamet scored more than 15 points off the bench 12 times last year. in the 39 games he got over 20 minutes he hit double figures 22 times.

So you tell me who is the better bench scorer. The guy who consistently got more minutes, and did more in the minutes he got? Or the guy who couldn't hold down his spot in the rotation?

So what you are saying is we should trust the guy who shot worse, because he got more minutes, and shot the ball more than a guy we already have and shoots better, while taking up a vet min contract? Shamet is not a good defender, so if he gets 14 minutes per game out of Monty, then Monty wasted a better shooter in Galloway this whole season. I would rather have Bridges or Johnson getting those minutes than a guy who shoots worse than Galloway.

I still haven't heard an argument as to why we attached the #29 pick, for a guy who shoots worse than a deep bench guy we already have, and could easily retain for less money.

Shamet is not an upgrade after we included the #29 pick. He is a lateral move at best after adding in the #29 pick, and that is only if we can find a player equal to that #29 pick. We could have drafted Queta or Ayo, and just re-signed Galloway if we wanted a shooter off the bench.

[Saberestar]

We don't know if Shamet will be better than anyone at #29. We could have drafted Queta, and just re-signed Galloway, all while keeping a junkyard dog defender. And if we don't keep Payne, do you really see Shamet taking that third guard spot?

The only thing that Shamet has, is Monty's trust. I am just concerned now that Monty will give away minutes to a guy, who frankly isn't any more impressive than vet min guys we already have, and could easily retain.

Shamet is GOOD. Watch some highlights from him, I think you are gonna LOVE him because he is pretty similar to Cam Johnson but as a SG.

He is one of the best 3p shooters around the league, smart player and a capable ball handler.

Who's minutes is he taking? He isn't as good of a defender as Johnson is. I still haven't heard an argument to justify throwing in the #29 pick. According to the stats, Shamet is not a good defender, and shot worse than Galloway. So if Monty isn't going to trust Galloway, who's minutes will a lesser shooter in Shamet going to take? And is that worth a defensive big like Queta?

Easy to answer that.

During all the regular season Monty tried different players at the rotation as a backup SG.

For some time he played Jevon Carter there, another amount of games was Galloway our backup 2 and Monty proved with Moore and Nader too.

Monty was not satisfied with any of them and this is why he shortened to nine the rotation in the playoffs (and in the Finals just 8 with Saric out).

So there will be plenty of time available for him because we want to play with a 10-man rotation.

He fits nicely as a Book's backup and next to Cam Payne and Cam Johnson they are gonna be a tremendous 1-2-3 coming from the bench.

[RunDogGun]

Carter wasn't good. I loved him in the bubble, but when he played in the regular season he just looked useless. Even his defense wasn't a needle mover. We swapped him for a guy who played meaningful minutes on a championship contending team.

Pick 29 was a gamble. Could we have netted a player that cracked the rotation? Sure. But even our lottery pick last year didn't crack our rotation, so why would a lesser rated guy? Yes, there are always surprises in the draft, but I don't think we want to bank too much on that. We upgraded Carter, and have the ability to bring in or bring back someone who is deserving of NBA minutes. Remember because of Saric's injury, we only in reality have 14 roster spots because Dario eats one, so we don't really have space on our roster for a project.

I don't care too much about losing Carter, although he was nice to have had we used him for what he does well. We didn't, so that just points out limitations of our coaching staff. The 29th pick was a controlled contact for four years, and could fill a need in an area that Shamet, Carter, or Galloway could not. And looking at Carter's numbers, Shamet isn't much of an upgrade either, so including the 1st rounder was a waste.

This is our best time to develop players, since we finally have a solid culture and environment to do so. Moreover, if we retain CP3, this would be the ideal time to use a draft pick on someone who could learn from CP3, who we will have on the cheap for four years. We don't have a first rounder next year.

I guess I just can't get passed the fact that we already had a better shooter in Galloway, didn't use him for shooting, and threw away a first rounder in the deal. Defensively we got worse, and looking at the finals, defense was everything.

[Barkley6]

There are 96 guard minutes available.

I imagine Book takes 34 of those, CP3 30, Payne 18, which leaves 14 minutes per night available for Shamet. That's a great role for him, 14 minutes a night on a contending team seems about right. Carter and Galloway played those 14 minutes last year and neither one was convincing and locked up the position.

Last season both Galloway and Shamet played for teams most would consider 'contenders', lets break it down:

Galloway scored more than 15 points off the bench 1 time last year. In the 5 games he got over 20 minutes, he hit double figures twice.
Shamet scored more than 15 points off the bench 12 times last year. in the 39 games he got over 20 minutes he hit double figures 22 times.

So you tell me who is the better bench scorer. The guy who consistently got more minutes, and did more in the minutes he got? Or the guy who couldn't hold down his spot in the rotation?

So what you are saying is we should trust the guy who shot worse, because he got more minutes, and shot the ball more than a guy we already have and shoots better, while taking up a vet min contract? Shamet is not a good defender, so if he gets 14 minutes per game out of Monty, then Monty wasted a better shooter in Galloway this whole season. I would rather have Bridges or Johnson getting those minutes than a guy who shoots worse than Galloway.

I still haven't heard an argument as to why we attached the #29 pick, for a guy who shoots worse than a deep bench guy we already have, and could easily retain for less money.

Shamet is not an upgrade after we included the #29 pick. He is a lateral move at best after adding in the #29 pick, and that is only if we can find a player equal to that #29 pick. We could have drafted Queta or Ayo, and just re-signed Galloway if we wanted a shooter off the bench.

Who is the better shooter for their career?

Galloway: 40/37/81
Shamet: 41/40/83

So Galloway is definitively NOT the better shooter.

Shamet is also 6 years younger, so he has a higher ceiling than Galloway who is not going to get any better than what he is.

[RunDogGun]

Shamet is GOOD. Watch some highlights from him, I think you are gonna LOVE him because he is pretty similar to Cam Johnson but as a SG.

He is one of the best 3p shooters around the league, smart player and a capable ball handler.

Who's minutes is he taking? He isn't as good of a defender as Johnson is. I still haven't heard an argument to justify throwing in the #29 pick. According to the stats, Shamet is not a good defender, and shot worse than Galloway. So if Monty isn't going to trust Galloway, who's minutes will a lesser shooter in Shamet going to take? And is that worth a defensive big like Queta?

Easy to answer that.

During all the regular season Monty tried different players at the rotation as a backup SG.

For some time he played Jevon Carter there, another amount of games was Galloway our backup 2 and Monty proved with Moore and Nader too.

Monty was not satisfied with any of them and this is why he shortened to nine the rotation in the playoffs (and in the Finals just 8 with Saric out).

So there will be plenty of time available for him because we want to play with a 10-man rotation.

He fits nicely as a Book's backup and next to Cam Payne and Cam Johnson they are gonna be a tremendous 1-2-3 coming from the bench.

I really hope Monty isn't going to run 1,2,3 of all bench players, and one of those guys not being a better shooter than a guy a we refused to use, nor a better defender than another deep bench player we didn't use.
So I guess the answer I got was Shamet will be taking minutes away from deep bench players who played out of position during garbage minutes, who shot better or played better defense than Shamet? And how is that worth a controlled rookie contract?

Oh well, the stats that I have seen make this trade stupid in my opinion, and in the long run, doesn't move the needle for us, nor does it address the glaring needs we have.

I hope you guys are right, and that somehow just having Monty's confidence will propel Shamet into the player he hasn't shown yet, and we address all the other holes with FAs.

[RunDogGun]

Who is the better shooter for their career?

Galloway: 40/37/81
Shamet: 41/40/83

So Galloway is definitively NOT the better shooter.

Shamet is also 6 years younger, so he has a higher ceiling than Galloway who is not going to get any better than what he is.

Who cares about career? I care about current relevant facts. Currently, Galloway is a better shooter in every category, and on advanced stats better O/D ratio as well. Damn dude, why is it so hard for you guys to admit facts?
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=shamela01&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=gallola01&p2yrfrom=2021

Also, I don't care if we kept Galloway, and it doesn't matter to me if he will get better or not. Currently, he is a better shooter than Shamet, and that is a fact. The point I was making, was we wasted a first rounder on a guy who shoots worse than what we already had, and refused to use.

[Barkley6]

Who is the better shooter for their career?

Galloway: 40/37/81
Shamet: 41/40/83

So Galloway is definitively NOT the better shooter.

Shamet is also 6 years younger, so he has a higher ceiling than Galloway who is not going to get any better than what he is.

Who cares about career? I care about current relevant facts. Currently, Galloway is a better shooter in every category, and on advanced stats better O/D ratio as well. Damn dude, why is it so hard for you guys to admit facts?
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=shamela01&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=gallola01&p2yrfrom=2021

NBA executives care about career numbers.

Because Galloway shot 85 3 pointers this year, that's not a large enough sample to base his shooing percentage on. So you look at his career numbers to get a better indication of the overall player. The same way if a guy who shot 30% from 3 for 7 seasons, suddenly blows up in year 8 and shoots 39% one season...which is the real player? The most recent season? or the career? I'd bank on a regression the following year.

This isn't rocket science, it's how the league has always worked in terms of looking at statistics, you're always balancing the most recent data against the whole set and trying to figure out what the trend will be.

No one is asking you to be excited about Shamet, he's a 9th man type player, but Langston Galloway is a weird hill to die on.