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Official Trade Thread - Part XLI

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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1421 » by payitforward » Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:32 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Bryant has 1 year left - Harrell has 1 year left. Yes, Bryant is an RFA but I don't see much difference honestly in terms of holes. I would have plugged either Bryant or Harrell in for Wright in a heartbeat.

If you think it would create at hole at C - I would ask you what our hole at PG looks like.

We wiffed on that one...

IOW, if Tristan Thompson got Delon Wright, then presumably either Bryant or Harrell would have gotten him too?

You bet -- & Harrell would have made the most sense, in that he's actually a little undersized to start at the 5. Bryant is the better player between them. Certainly better on offense. & Harrell isn't a big upgrade on defense either. OTOH, Bryant is something of a question mark since he's coming back from injury.

I tell you what, tho, there'd be some broad smiles around here if our starting lineup featured that big an upgrade at PG....
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1422 » by payitforward » Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:35 pm

OTOH --

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263553/Spencer-Dinwiddie-To-Wizards-Gains-Momentum-With-Kyle-Kuzma-Or-Montrezl-Harrell-Going-To-Nets

What are your responses to this? You want Dinwiddie? Assume we give up Kuzma in the deal....
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1423 » by Frichuela » Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:40 pm

payitforward wrote:OTOH --

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263553/Spencer-Dinwiddie-To-Wizards-Gains-Momentum-With-Kyle-Kuzma-Or-Montrezl-Harrell-Going-To-Nets

What are your responses to this? You want Dinwiddie? Assume we give up Kuzma in the deal....


Not a fan of Dinwiddie to be honest…I much rather a trade for Derrick White or Lonzo Ball.

His 3 pt shooting percentages are consistently pretty bad…and his D is also subpar
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1424 » by WallToWall » Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:49 pm

Lonzo Ball is now officially a RFA since the Pels extended the qualifying offer. So, this will set up a sign and trade, if we want to get him. I would be up for this, as we need a PG in a bad way.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1425 » by dckingsfan » Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:55 pm

payitforward wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Bryant has 1 year left - Harrell has 1 year left. Yes, Bryant is an RFA but I don't see much difference honestly in terms of holes. I would have plugged either Bryant or Harrell in for Wright in a heartbeat.

If you think it would create at hole at C - I would ask you what our hole at PG looks like.

We wiffed on that one...

IOW, if Tristan Thompson got Delon Wright, then presumably either Bryant or Harrell would have gotten him too?

You bet -- & Harrell would have made the most sense, in that he's actually a little undersized to start at the 5. Bryant is the better player between them. Certainly better on offense. & Harrell isn't a big upgrade on defense either. OTOH, Bryant is something of a question mark since he's coming back from injury.

I tell you what, tho, there'd be some broad smiles around here if our starting lineup featured that big an upgrade at PG....

Yeah, I would have traded either Bryant or Harrell in a heartbeat for Wright. I just think we missed on this one.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1426 » by payitforward » Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:06 pm

Frichuela wrote:
payitforward wrote:OTOH --

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263553/Spencer-Dinwiddie-To-Wizards-Gains-Momentum-With-Kyle-Kuzma-Or-Montrezl-Harrell-Going-To-Nets

What are your responses to this? You want Dinwiddie? Assume we give up Kuzma in the deal....

Not a fan of Dinwiddie to be honest…I much rather a trade for Derrick White or Lonzo Ball.

His 3 pt shooting percentages are consistently pretty bad…and his D is also subpar

I'm with you. I really liked him early in his career. He was extremely good in 2016-17 & still good, though less so, the following year.

Then he decided to start shooting the ball a whole lot. He doesn't do it very well unfortunately. Acquiring him would be a huge mistake. Not a small one but a big one. Especially since he's going to get overpaid -- & on a long term deal too.

A bad move, but I'd be willing to wager that we make it all the same. :(
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1427 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:19 pm

Sounds like Dinwiddie for Kuzma going down .... Don't know much about Dinwiddie, I see he's not much of a 3pt shooter, is he a top tier defender?
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1428 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:23 pm

sackings916 wrote:Apologies if this was already discussed. But there are rumors in Sac that Kuzma and Harrell may still be coming to Sacramento. Is there a deal that makes sense? I would think Buddy Hield would be involved.



Maybe for Barnes?
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1429 » by prime1time » Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:02 pm

I think we have to put Dinwiddie's 3-point shooting into context. I'm going to ignore last season because he only played 3 games. The season before he shot 30.8% from 3 but on 6.3 attempts. Kyrie only played 20 games that year so Dinwiddie basically carried the offense as its primary scorer. If he came to DC his role would be different. Beal would be the primary scorer and he would likely be the second or maybe even third option after Rui. Look at Dinwiddie tape from that season. A lot of off-the-dribble and step-back 3's. On this team, he wouldn't be taking those. In terms of spacing, the floor for Beal Dinwiddie is vastly superior to Westbrook. Another key thing to look at Dinwiddie is his ability to get to the free-throw line. 7 attempts a game his last full season at Brooklyn. To put that in perspective, Wall never averaged 7 ft's attempts in any season. In addition, Dinwiddie is a late bloomer. I think it speaks volumes that his highest PER happened when he had the largest offensive role.

If I had to guess, Dinwiddie to DC is likely already a done deal. There's no way Beal stays if there wasn't an answer at PG. Dinwiddie at a good price would be the best compliment to Beal he's had. And while I like Lonzo, he simply cannot get to the hole and draw ft's the same way Dinwiddie can. Ball averages 1.2 ft's a game. I actually really like the fit of Dinwiddie next to Beal. I think he'll help to resurrect Beal's spot-up game given his ability to get to the hoop and collapse the defense. With our added 3-point shooting and Beal as a lead scorer, I would expect Dinwiddie to fit in very nicely with our team. And given the situation our team is in, I don't think there's a better fit on the market. 5 years is steep, but by year 3 if the salary cap starts to go up it will be mangeable and there will be space to potentially add a 3rd star. In addition, I would expect having a pg that is not ball-dominant and can knock down open 3's will improve the efficiency of our entire offense.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1430 » by sackings916 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:40 pm

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:
sackings916 wrote:Apologies if this was already discussed. But there are rumors in Sac that Kuzma and Harrell may still be coming to Sacramento. Is there a deal that makes sense? I would think Buddy Hield would be involved.



Maybe for Barnes?


I can’t see a deal involving Barnes since Sac wants to compete for the playoffs and are short on wings/forwards.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1431 » by prime1time » Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:49 pm

Frichuela wrote:
payitforward wrote:OTOH --

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263553/Spencer-Dinwiddie-To-Wizards-Gains-Momentum-With-Kyle-Kuzma-Or-Montrezl-Harrell-Going-To-Nets

What are your responses to this? You want Dinwiddie? Assume we give up Kuzma in the deal....


Not a fan of Dinwiddie to be honest…I much rather a trade for Derrick White or Lonzo Ball.

His 3 pt shooting percentages are consistently pretty bad…and his D is also subpar

With a pg, more things matter than just 3-point percentage. It's important but it's not the end-all and be all. The problem with Lonzo is that in the halfcourt he's basically only a spot-up shooter. It's tough to have a pg that cannot consistently break down his man. Last year Lonzo averaged only 1.2 ft's a game. At the same time, Dinwiddie averaged 7 ft's a game last year. With Dinwiddie, we can project that he will be able to consistently get to the hole and force the defense to collapse. This will allow us to force defenses to help off of shooters or give up open drives. In 2019-2020, Dinwiddie was 11th in ft's. And to discuss his low 3-point percentage, I would point out that in the 2019-2020 season only 11.1% of his shots were "spot-up". I expect that this will percentage will drastically increase and as a result so will his 3-point percentage. Ideally, you'd have a player that can do it all. Get to the hoop at an elite level and be a knockdown 3-point shooter. In addition, it's very likely that Dinwiddie can improve his 3-point shooting.

White is a better comparison but I would point out that comparing him to Dinwiddie is an inherently unfair comparison. White has never been asked to lead a team. In Dinwiddie's last real year in Brooklyn, he was the first option. In addition, we should point out that Dinwiddie improves consistently unlike White, and that Dinwiddie is a way better playmaker than White. For Dinwiddie's career he has an assist percentage of 30% while White's is 19%.

If you survey who's actually available at pg it's really hard to make the case that Dinwiddie isn't the best realistic option for the Wizards imo. The fit next to Beal is very good. At 6'5 215, we could choose to put Dinwiddie on 2's and have Beal guard 1's. In addition, it is rare to play against teams that have exceptional guards as defenders. By having both guards that are elite at breaking down their man, we greatly improve our overall offensive efficiency. That combined with our ability to space the floor with shooters - Kispert, Caldwell-Pope, Bertans will make it very tough for defenses. If Hachimura and Avdija continue to improve their shooting it will serve to make us that much better. Lastly, Dinwiddie has no problem playing off-ball. This will allow players like Avdija and Rui to take more of an initiating role offensively. If we can successfully add Dinwiddie, this will be the best team we've had in my lifetime. The pieces fit together well and I could see us giving a teams fits. Perhaps the best of all is that we would still maintain the ability to add a max player if they become available.

Lastly, I expect Bradley Beal to ascend into the MVP conversation. Surrounding Beal with 3-point shooting and forcing teams to either help off of shooters to stop Beal or stay home on shooters and leave Beal matched up one-on-one. If Beal can add 3's off the dribble like Lillard/Steph/Trae, I think he will be in the MVP conversation. Also, look for the assist numbers to increase now that ball-dominant Westbrook is gone. I don't think 30/7/5 is out of the question for Beal. We would still have a long way to go to build a championship contender but with how everything fits, the age of our players and the potential to have cap space this is easily the closest we've been to becoming a legit contender since 1980.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1432 » by Benjammin » Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:01 pm

I think it would be dumb for the Pelicans to let Lonzo go in a sign and trade unless they are getting outstanding value back. I don't see the Wizards having that unfortunately. So, if the Wiz get Dinwiddie, I hope he stays healthy, and the contract isn't a ridiculous overpay.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1433 » by DCZards » Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:23 pm

prime1time wrote:I think we have to put Dinwiddie's 3-point shooting into context. I'm going to ignore last season because he only played 3 games. The season before he shot 30.8% from 3 but on 6.3 attempts. Kyrie only played 20 games that year so Dinwiddie basically carried the offense as its primary scorer. If he came to DC his role would be different. Beal would be the primary scorer and he would likely be the second or maybe even third option after Rui. Look at Dinwiddie tape from that season. A lot of off-the-dribble and step-back 3's. On this team, he wouldn't be taking those. In terms of spacing, the floor for Beal Dinwiddie is vastly superior to Westbrook. Another key thing to look at Dinwiddie is his ability to get to the free-throw line. 7 attempts a game his last full season at Brooklyn. To put that in perspective, Wall never averaged 7 ft's attempts in any season. In addition, Dinwiddie is a late bloomer. I think it speaks volumes that his highest PER happened when he had the largest offensive role.

If I had to guess, Dinwiddie to DC is likely already a done deal. There's no way Beal stays if there wasn't an answer at PG. Dinwiddie at a good price would be the best compliment to Beal he's had. And while I like Lonzo, he simply cannot get to the hole and draw ft's the same way Dinwiddie can. Ball averages 1.2 ft's a game. I actually really like the fit of Dinwiddie next to Beal. I think he'll help to resurrect Beal's spot-up game given his ability to get to the hoop and collapse the defense. With our added 3-point shooting and Beal as a lead scorer, I would expect Dinwiddie to fit in very nicely with our team. And given the situation our team is in, I don't think there's a better fit on the market. 5 years is steep, but by year 3 if the salary cap starts to go up it will be mangeable and there will be space to potentially add a 3rd star. In addition, I would expect having a pg that is not ball-dominant and can knock down open 3's will improve the efficiency of our entire offense.

I agree that you have to put stats into context. The type of shots a player like Dinwiddie takes has a lot to do with his role on a particular team. With the Nets Spencer was the go-to scorer (along with Lavert) a few years ago. With the Zards, that role will hopefully be different, and he'll take fewer and, most importantly, shots that are more in his wheelhouse than 3s and step back jumpers.

Spencer's ability to get to the basket and the FT line are a real plus. His assist #s aren't great but they're decent Don't know much about Dinwiddie's D but his size for a guard (6-5) should be helpful in that regard.

I'd hate to overpay for Spencer, which we might end up doing, but he's not a bad fit and we could do a lot worse.

I'd prefer Lonzo Ball but I doubt that we can afford him or that the Zards have anybody that the Pels would want in a sign-and-trade. Although I could be wrong about that.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1434 » by Dat2U » Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:39 pm

G S. Dinwiddie, A. Holiday, C. Winston
G B. Beal, K. Caldwell-Pope, G. Mathews
F D. Avdija, C. Kispert
F R. Hachimura, D. Bertans, I. Todd
C D. Gafford, T. Bryant

35-45 wins. I think health determines if they make the playoffs. Trading Russ for basically Dinwiddie, KCP & Holiday seems decent on the surface but does it really move the needle? No.

If we're three games out of the 8th seed in January and Beal asks out, then what?
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1435 » by Gig18 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:49 pm

Aren't we putting the cart before the hoarse (yeah) here? There's no real media reporting Dinwiddie is coming here --- it's just Internet chum. Heck, this could be all Dinwiddie driving up his free agent price. jus sayin
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1436 » by DCZards » Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:05 pm

Dat2U wrote:G S. Dinwiddie, A. Holiday, C. Winston
G B. Beal, K. Caldwell-Pope, G. Mathews
F D. Avdija, C. Kispert
F R. Hachimura, D. Bertans, I. Todd
C D. Gafford, T. Bryant

35-45 wins. I think health determines if they make the playoffs. Trading Russ for basically Dinwiddie, KCP & Holiday seems decent on the surface but does it really move the needle? No.

If we're three games out of the 8th seed in January and Beal asks out, then what?

Beal’s a smart guy. He knows the limitations of this current team.

What’s probably more important to Beal than the team’s record next season is the development of Rui and Deni and what Shep is able to do with the salary cap monies the Zards now have as a result of the Westbrook trade.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1437 » by Rafael122 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:19 pm

Dat2U wrote:G S. Dinwiddie, A. Holiday, C. Winston
G B. Beal, K. Caldwell-Pope, G. Mathews
F D. Avdija, C. Kispert
F R. Hachimura, D. Bertans, I. Todd
C D. Gafford, T. Bryant

35-45 wins. I think health determines if they make the playoffs. Trading Russ for basically Dinwiddie, KCP & Holiday seems decent on the surface but does it really move the needle? No.

If we're three games out of the 8th seed in January and Beal asks out, then what?


Good coaching and defense goes a long way. Look at the Knicks, don't think anyone expected them to go 41-31 and finish 4th, and they don't have nearly as many offensive weapons as we do.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1438 » by payitforward » Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:38 pm

prime1time wrote:I think we have to put Dinwiddie's 3-point shooting into context. I'm going to ignore last season because he only played 3 games. The season before he shot 30.8% from 3 but on 6.3 attempts. Kyrie only played 20 games that year so Dinwiddie basically carried the offense as its primary scorer. If he came to DC his role would be different. Beal would be the primary scorer and he would likely be the second or maybe even third option after Rui. Look at Dinwiddie tape from that season. A lot of off-the-dribble and step-back 3's. On this team, he wouldn't be taking those. In terms of spacing, the floor for Beal Dinwiddie is vastly superior to Westbrook. Another key thing to look at Dinwiddie is his ability to get to the free-throw line. 7 attempts a game his last full season at Brooklyn. To put that in perspective, Wall never averaged 7 ft's attempts in any season. In addition, Dinwiddie is a late bloomer. I think it speaks volumes that his highest PER happened when he had the largest offensive role.

If I had to guess, Dinwiddie to DC is likely already a done deal. There's no way Beal stays if there wasn't an answer at PG. Dinwiddie at a good price would be the best compliment to Beal he's had. And while I like Lonzo, he simply cannot get to the hole and draw ft's the same way Dinwiddie can. Ball averages 1.2 ft's a game. I actually really like the fit of Dinwiddie next to Beal. I think he'll help to resurrect Beal's spot-up game given his ability to get to the hoop and collapse the defense. With our added 3-point shooting and Beal as a lead scorer, I would expect Dinwiddie to fit in very nicely with our team. And given the situation our team is in, I don't think there's a better fit on the market. 5 years is steep, but by year 3 if the salary cap starts to go up it will be manageable and there will be space to potentially add a 3rd star. In addition, I would expect having a pg that is not ball-dominant and can knock down open 3's will improve the efficiency of our entire offense.

As I wrote, I used to like Dinwiddie a lot. Hence I'm quite familiar with his game. To comment on a few of your points --

His spacing is "vastly superior" to Westbrook? I'll give you that it's better. OTOH, Westbrook was a stud last year in a bunch of ways that are simply not available to Dinwiddie. Start with rebounding & assists. Don't kid yourself, Russell Westbrook was one of the dozen best PGs in the league last year. & that's after an awful start playing through injury.

"...it speaks volumes that his highest Per happened when he had the largest offensive role." That would be true for absolutely any player at any position in the NBA. Every time you take a shot, your PER goes up -- make or miss. You have to shoot below I think it's about 33% for extra shots to be either neutral or lower your PER. It's a ridiculous metric.

"Lonzo... simply cannot... the way Dinwiddie can" -- I've never been that much of a Lonzo Ball fan, but... come on... he's a better player than Dinwiddie! He's also 3.5 years younger than Dinwiddie.

That said, I don't want Lonzo Ball any more than I do Spencer Dinwiddie. I have no interest in locking anyone in for 4-5 years at $20m+ per year. That will just get in the way of developing the team. While neither of those guys will make us a title contender.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1439 » by jangles86 » Sun Aug 1, 2021 12:09 am

We’re gonna lose Beal for nothing at the end of next season.

How bad would it be that Beal strings wizards along and does the dash and we get nothing for him.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1440 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Aug 1, 2021 12:12 am

payitforward wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Bryant has 1 year left - Harrell has 1 year left. Yes, Bryant is an RFA but I don't see much difference honestly in terms of holes. I would have plugged either Bryant or Harrell in for Wright in a heartbeat.

If you think it would create at hole at C - I would ask you what our hole at PG looks like.

We wiffed on that one...

IOW, if Tristan Thompson got Delon Wright, then presumably either Bryant or Harrell would have gotten him too?

You bet -- & Harrell would have made the most sense, in that he's actually a little undersized to start at the 5. Bryant is the better player between them. Certainly better on offense. & Harrell isn't a big upgrade on defense either. OTOH, Bryant is something of a question mark since he's coming back from injury.

I tell you what, tho, there'd be some broad smiles around here if our starting lineup featured that big an upgrade at PG....


The Wizards could just play Harrell at PF.

Holiday, Beal, Hachimura,Harrell and Bryant

With Gafford,KCP, Bertans, Deni, and Kispert all playing decent minutes.

Give Kuzma away. Wherever HE wants. Detroit or Toronto make the most sense. Nearby Flint MI where Kuz is from. Send him anywhere best offer, otherwise. Phoenix? Atlanta? I don’t know after their deal yesterday..

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