Official Trade Thread - Part XLI

Dark Faze · Post #1461 » by **Dark Faze** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 4:41 pm

Looks like it's Ball to Chicago most likely. And other teams have interest--doubt we outbid them, but surely I'd prefer Ball over Dinwiddie.

If we lock in another non shooting PG next to Brad after all these years...my goodness please no.

WallToWall · Post #1462 » by **WallToWall** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 5:30 pm

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Wizards and Siakam talk??

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Would be nice, but I cant see how without giving up some major assets.
Sign and trade maybe? Lowry + Siakam FOR Hutchison + Avidja + Bertans + Bryant. Sign Lowry to a 1 or 2 year deal?

dckingsfan · Post #1463 » by **dckingsfan** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 5:54 pm

mhd wrote:I don't know if the Cavs plan on keeping Rubio, but he's he PG I'd target. Great defender, leader, and can pass. Obviously not a great shooter, but we could do worse on an expiring.

yeah, he would have been a good draft day target. My guess is they will keep him - think coach Ricky and backup PG. It was a good trade for the Cavs.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #1464 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 6:14 pm

WallToWall wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Wizards and Siakam talk??

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Would be nice, but I cant see how without giving up some major assets.
Sign and trade maybe? Lowry + Siakam FOR Hutchison + Avidja + Bertans + Bryant. Sign Lowry to a 1 or 2 year deal?

I say pass. Not Pascal. Pass on Pascal.

I think he's overrated. Since Kawhi left he's been meh.

Chris Boucher is MUCH BETTER than Pascal Siakem. The Raptors are moving him. Dude is not worth a huge salary IMHO.

80sballboy · Post #1465 » by **80sballboy** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 6:25 pm

I'm on the record by being ok with Dinwiddie. Before the injury, he was becoming a borderline All-Star. However, it's all about fit and right player, right price. If he was the only guy they are focusing on and they are not looking at Ball or Graham or anybody else who is solid that would cost less, I would say they are once again trying to appease Beal, because Spencer wants to play with him.

payitforward · Post #1466 » by **payitforward** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 6:29 pm

Oh no... not Siakam!

Not only is Masai Ujiri not joining us, but he's going to screw us royally too!!

Pascal Siakam had a very good (not great) season in '18-19 & got paid. The following year he went way down hill & he stayed down there this last season. Since the Raps owe him $115m, of course they want to get rid of him!

Siakam is just about the last player in the league whom we need right now. Tommy has done a mostly really god job this off season; I hope to God he doesn't he doesn't p!ss in the soup he just prepared!

WallToWall · Post #1467 » by **WallToWall** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 6:38 pm

payitforward wrote:Oh no... not Siakam!

Not only is Masai Ujiri not joining us, but he's going to screw us royally too!!

Pascal Siakam had a very good (not great) season in '18-19 & got paid. The following year he went way down hill & he stayed down there this last season. Since the Raps owe him $115m, of course they want to get rid of him!

Siakam is just about the last player in the league whom we need right now. Tommy has done a mostly really god job this off season; I hope to God he doesn't he doesn't p!ss in the soup he just prepared!

But his numbers look good. No?
His line from this past season (from basketball-reference.com):
7.8/17.2 FG (.455)
1.3/4.4 on 3ptrs (.297) - in previous years, he shot .359 and .369, so he can shoot 3's.
4.4/5.4 on FTs (.827)
7.2 rbs
1.1 steals
.7 blocks
2.3 TOV
21.4 pts/g

Is it the production vs salary that is off putting?

payitforward · Post #1468 » by **payitforward** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 6:44 pm

We all know how this is going to go down, don't we?

Goodbye Thomas Bryant, Deni Avdija, Bertans, Kuzma & a R1 pick. Maybe Mathews too. A 3d team will be involved that will be maneuvered into taking Bertans (Ujiri won't want him). Maybe the Nets will be involved, so we can get Dinwiddie too.

Then you can kiss the next 4 years goodbye. While the Raps will have rebuilt on our backs.

Oh man do I ever hope I'm wrong!

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #1469 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 6:56 pm

payitforward wrote:We all know how this is going to go down, don't we?

Goodbye Thomas Bryant, Deni Avdija, Bertans, Kuzma & a R1 pick. Maybe Mathews too. A 3d team will be involved that will be maneuvered into taking Bertans (Ujiri won't want him). Maybe the Nets will be involved, so we can get Dinwiddie too.

Then you can kiss the next 4 years goodbye. While the Raps will have rebuilt on our backs.

Oh man do I ever hope I'm wrong!

The devil is in the details.

If Pascal is traded for relatively dead weight then it might not be the worst move. We have too many forwards as it is.

The draft w. grades

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/2021-nba-draft-team-grades-warriors-rockets-pistons-get-top-marks-knicks-celtics-come-up-short/ar-AAMKEGv

A Toronto/Washington neutral trade idea:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yfaozepo

Kuzma, Bryant, Beal for Pascal

Boom. Simple, Toronto wins but Washington wins more,

Dark Faze · Post #1470 » by **Dark Faze** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 7:02 pm

I would not "buy low" on a contract of that type. Too expensive and will cost us assets.

Gig18 · Post #1471 » by **Gig18** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 7:16 pm

Soooooo, first you say "pass on Siakam" because he's overrated.
THEN you say package Kuzma --- OK --- Bryant, uhhhh, OK --- and BRAD? for the dude you say is overrated and you'd pass on.

What the hell man. I think the idea would be to find a star (Siakam, maybe) to pair with Brad.
even if that weren't true, I'm pretty sure they'd take Brad all by his lonesome for Siakam. Brad IS a star.
c'mon, c'mon, c'mon ....

80sballboy · Post #1472 » by **80sballboy** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 7:36 pm

Super stat-geeky post

Read on Twitter

?s=20

payitforward · Post #1473 » by **payitforward** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 7:40 pm

WallToWall wrote:
payitforward wrote:Oh no... not Siakam!

Not only is Masai Ujiri not joining us, but he's going to screw us royally too!!

Pascal Siakam had a very good (not great) season in '18-19 & got paid. The following year he went way down hill & he stayed down there this last season. Since the Raps owe him $115m, of course they want to get rid of him!

Siakam is just about the last player in the league whom we need right now. Tommy has done a mostly really god job this off season; I hope to God he doesn't he doesn't p!ss in the soup he just prepared!

But his numbers look good. No?
His line from this past season (from basketball-reference.com):
7.8/17.2 FG (.455)
1.3/4.4 on 3ptrs (.297) - in previous years, he shot .359 and .369, so he can shoot 3's.
4.4/5.4 on FTs (.827)
7.2 rbs
1.1 steals
.7 blocks
2.3 TOV
21.4 pts/g

Is it the production vs salary that is off putting?

The production itself -- irrespective of salary -- is bad. I.e. is significantly below average for a PF.

Compare Pascal this year to 18-19 per 36 minutes. In every way but scoring, his numbers weren't particularly great back then, about average for a PF, & they didn't change to speak of. Still about average.

As a scorer, however, he is very different from the guy of 2 years ago. Here's how:

Per 36 minutes this year he scored 2.4 more points than he did back then. 1.2 of those points came from getting to the line slightly more. That's good.

To get the other 1.2 extra points he had to take 3.8 more shots.

Just read that sentence a couple of times, so that it sinks in.

1.2 points is equal to .6 of a made 2 pt. FG, right? So, Pascal took 3.8 more shots & made .6 of them. For simplicity, let's express that in whole numbers:

It took Pascal Siakam 6.4 more FGAs this year to record one more FG than in '18-19.

Accordingly, his efg% dropped from .591 (extremely good) to .493 (absolutely awful). Btw, in '19-20 it had already dropped to .512. I.e. it's not "an off year." It's a trend. Or a return to the mean if you prefer -- given that his first 2 years weren't good either.

Any questions?

NatP4 · Post #1474 » by **NatP4** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 7:42 pm

Not even a reputable source, why the outrage?

80sballboy · Post #1475 » by **80sballboy** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 7:45 pm

Read on Twitter

?s=20

payitforward · Post #1476 » by **payitforward** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 7:46 pm

Gig18 wrote:Soooooo, first you say "pass on Siakam" because he's overrated.
THEN you say package Kuzma --- OK --- Bryant, uhhhh, OK --- and BRAD? for the dude you say is overrated and you'd pass on....

Sorry -- I must not have written very clearly. This is what I'm afraid Tommy will do! Not what I want to do. But, I didn't say (at least didn't mean to!) that Brad would be involved. Maybe I mistyped? Wait... let me go look....

No, this is what I wrote:

payitforward wrote:We all know how this is going to go down, don't we?

Goodbye Thomas Bryant, Deni Avdija, Bertans, Kuzma & a R1 pick. Maybe Mathews too. A 3d team will be involved that will be maneuvered into taking Bertans (Ujiri won't want him). Maybe the Nets will be involved, so we can get Dinwiddie too.

Then you can kiss the next 4 years goodbye. While the Raps will have rebuilt on our backs.

Oh man do I ever hope I'm wrong!

Gig18 · Post #1477 » by **Gig18** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 7:47 pm

80sballboy wrote:Super stat-geeky post

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Pretty sure I just saw this on Spencer Dinwiddie's Twitter account ...

Gig18 · Post #1478 » by **Gig18** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 7:47 pm

payitforward wrote:
Gig18 wrote:Soooooo, first you say "pass on Siakam" because he's overrated.
THEN you say package Kuzma --- OK --- Bryant, uhhhh, OK --- and BRAD? for the dude you say is overrated and you'd pass on....

Sorry -- I must not have written very clearly. This is what I'm afraid Tommy will do! Not what I want to do. But, I didn't say (at least didn't mean to!) that Brad would be involved. Maybe I mistyped? Wait... let me go look.

gotcha

payitforward · Post #1479 » by **payitforward** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 8:07 pm

Another way of putting the worry I suddenly feel:

Is all this whirlwind talk about Dinwiddie & Pascal motivated by Tommy's (or Ted's) anxiety that Beal will leave unless we pull out all the stops? If so, that is bound to lead to big mistakes.

One of the first things Tommy said after becoming GM was, "we're going to build this the right way, patiently."

I sure hope he sticks to that good notion. We are not going to be able to trade our way or spend our way into a title.

Gig18 · Post #1480 » by **Gig18** » Sun Aug 1, 2021 8:19 pm

payitforward wrote:Another way of putting the worry I suddenly feel:

Is all this whirlwind talk about Dinwiddie & Pascal motivated by Tommy's (or Ted's) anxiety that Beal will leave unless we pull out all the stops? If so, that is bound to lead to big mistakes.

One of the first things Tommy said after becoming GM was, "we're going to build this the right way, patiently."

I sure hope he sticks to that good notion. We are not going to be able to trade our way or spend our way into a title.

But doesn't passing over all the point guards we were drooling over in the draft to take Isaiah Todd sort of suggest that Tommy's taking the long view into account? Not just Brad's desires?
guess we'll find out more during free agency ...