Official Trade Thread - Part XLI

[Gig18]

Hey just saw this. Looks like we still have Gill and Homesley
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[Rafael122]

Another way of putting the worry I suddenly feel:

Is all this whirlwind talk about Dinwiddie & Pascal motivated by Tommy's (or Ted's) anxiety that Beal will leave unless we pull out all the stops? If so, that is bound to lead to big mistakes.

One of the first things Tommy said after becoming GM was, "we're going to build this the right way, patiently."

I sure hope he sticks to that good notion. We are not going to be able to trade our way or spend our way into a title.

Getting out of Russ's contract is a huge deal because it gives them flexibility to do something so I think that's why there's a lot of talk because Shep really couldn't do a whole lot b/c half the cap was tied to 2 guys. A TPE worth $8.5 million is huge because that's essentially a MLE player. Then you include the full use of the actual MLE, then you include the possibility that Bertans, Kuzma, or Harrell could be flipped for something else.

I think a lead point guard and backup shooting guard are probably the final pieces to Shep's puzzle if we're assuming KCP is going to be the starting small forward. I assume someone like Burks or Bullock would be an interesting pick up for half the MLE, and then there are the sign and trade options to get Dinwiddie or Ball.

[Dat2U]

Another way of putting the worry I suddenly feel:

Is all this whirlwind talk about Dinwiddie & Pascal motivated by Tommy's (or Ted's) anxiety that Beal will leave unless we pull out all the stops? If so, that is bound to lead to big mistakes.

One of the first things Tommy said after becoming GM was, "we're going to build this the right way, patiently."

I sure hope he sticks to that good notion. We are not going to be able to trade our way or spend our way into a title.

Getting out of Russ's contract is a huge deal because it gives them flexibility to do something so I think that's why there's a lot of talk because Shep really couldn't do a whole lot b/c half the cap was tied to 2 guys. A TPE worth $8.5 million is huge because that's essentially a MLE player. Then you include the full use of the actual MLE, then you include the possibility that Bertans, Kuzma, or Harrell could be flipped for something else.

I think a lead point guard and backup shooting guard are probably the final pieces to Shep's puzzle if we're assuming KCP is going to be the starting small forward. I assume someone like Burks or Bullock would be an interesting pick up for half the MLE, and then there are the sign and trade options to get Dinwiddie or Ball.

It's not a huge deal if we're using the flexibility to pay Dinwiddie this year and A. Holiday next year. It's just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

[wall_glizzy]

The Siakam contract is a little rich for my blood, but if he's put in the right situation I don't think it's too bad. I'd probably trade for him over Dinwiddie, if the latter's contract ends up anywhere near what he's asking for. Siakam runs into real trouble as the number one option for an offense, but when he can play off a primary initiator he's great. (As he did, next to Kawhi, in the much-ballyhooed 2018-19 season - I'm not sure why we're just looking at random previous seasons and concluding that Siakam sucks now, rather than thinking at all about what conditions from that/those season(s) might have affected his play. Ditto that for any possible factors that might have made this season particularly difficult.)

I'm moreso averse to the trade because of our already-existing PF logjam than the incoming contract - I think Siakam would do quite well here, but I'm not wild about the resultant roster configurations. Ending up with a rotation of Siakam / KCP / Rui / Avdija / Kispert at the forward spots would be great, but I can't really imagine any deal in which we manage to dump all three of Bertans, Kuzma, and Harrell. That's also assuming that the front office sees either Rui or Deni as capable of playing minutes at the 3, which I'm not fully convinced of. The Raptors had a couple pretty good lineups featuring Siakam at the 5 last year, but I wouldn't count on it for more than a couple minutes a game. Moreover, those lineups were partially enabled by significantly better point-of-attack defense than we can expect to have out on the perimeter, which took some weight off the shoulders of the rim protector. He's pretty strong with help defense from the weak side, as far as 4s go, so he'd actually do a lot to help us keep Bryant out there without bleeding points as well.

[Rafael122]

Another way of putting the worry I suddenly feel:

Is all this whirlwind talk about Dinwiddie & Pascal motivated by Tommy's (or Ted's) anxiety that Beal will leave unless we pull out all the stops? If so, that is bound to lead to big mistakes.

One of the first things Tommy said after becoming GM was, "we're going to build this the right way, patiently."

I sure hope he sticks to that good notion. We are not going to be able to trade our way or spend our way into a title.

Getting out of Russ's contract is a huge deal because it gives them flexibility to do something so I think that's why there's a lot of talk because Shep really couldn't do a whole lot b/c half the cap was tied to 2 guys. A TPE worth $8.5 million is huge because that's essentially a MLE player. Then you include the full use of the actual MLE, then you include the possibility that Bertans, Kuzma, or Harrell could be flipped for something else.

I think a lead point guard and backup shooting guard are probably the final pieces to Shep's puzzle if we're assuming KCP is going to be the starting small forward. I assume someone like Burks or Bullock would be an interesting pick up for half the MLE, and then there are the sign and trade options to get Dinwiddie or Ball.

It's not a huge deal if we're using the flexibility to pay Dinwiddie this year and A. Holiday next year. It's just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

Would be shocked if Holiday is extended. I think Shep wants as little money on the books as possible.

[badinage]

The top target has to be Siakam. Has to be.

That’d give them a front court creator + PF who can switch and guard the interior. And, paired with KCP and Gafford, that’s three excellent defenders in the front court.

Game-changing.

Plus Deni, who has already shown promise on D and is likely to get better.

You can afford to keep a Bertans — who doesn’t play D, who’s just a gunner — around with a frontcourt like that. Assuming he stays.

Also, Kispert won’t be forced to do too much, too early.

Yeah, yeah — we need a point guard. But we NEED Siakam.

Didn’t some observer somewhere say that adding another all-star was a priority? That it would go some ways toward mollifying Beal that the team is serious about competing?

Well, this absolutely does that.

Gafford
Siakam
Caldwell-Pope
Beal
____/Holiday

With a bench of:

Avdija
Kispert
Bertans
Bryant
Harrell
Holiday/Winston
Todd

Come on, how can you say you’re not intrigued/excited?

A starting 5 that can play D, score, and hit some 3s.

With shooting *galore* off the bench. Bombs awaaaay!

[Frichuela]

Someone posted this on Twitter…if this was the case I’d be pretty happy with the end result…

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[Error Afflalo]

That's a horrible trade for Sacramento.

[80sballboy]

Someone posted this on Twitter…if this was the case I’d be pretty happy with the end result…

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?s=21

Not sure the money even matches that, but I would assume the Wiz would still get a veteran point guard. Like Mitchell a lot, but not sure a short PG fits with BB or BB approves.

[tontoz]

Count me in favor of a siakam deal. We have a glut of forwards that aren't that good. We need a legit 2nd option.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Count me in favor of a siakam deal. We have a glut of forwards that aren't that good. We need a legit 2nd option.

Bryant, Harrell, Kuzma for Siakim

Toronto and Washington both get what they want/need

[badinage]

Count me in favor of a siakam deal. We have a glut of forwards that aren't that good. We need a legit 2nd option.

Bryant, Harrell, Kuzma for Siakim

Toronto and Washington both get what they want/need

In my scenario, we sacrifice Hachimura and Kuzma — and hold onto Bryant and Harrell.

I’d give them Hachimura and Bryant, too. I’d like to have Harrell and Kuzma, to go along with Siakam, KCP, Kispert, Bertans, and Gafford.

I dunno — the fact Tommy Shepp went and got so many forwards and has so much duplication in the front court … doesn’t it lead you to think that it was a move with another move in mind to follow? Namely: make a play for Siakam.

Of all the players who are out there and maybe get-able, he’s the one who could most alter our trajectory next season.

[9 and 20]

Maybe they could get both Dinwidde and Siakam? Those two, with Beal and Gafford, could be a force in the East. Siakam would probably mean trading Rui, but that's mostly fine - I doubt Rui at his peak will be any better than Siakam.

Hang on to Deni, Kispert, KCP to man the SF position and keep one of Bryant or Harrell to play backup C. You can trade Bertans, Kuzma, Rui, and one of the non-Gafford C's to make it happen.

Also - that Sacramento trade is a no-brainer. Bertans and seconds for a lottery pick would be a dream.

[payitforward]

The top target has to be Siakam. Has to be.

That’d give them a front court creator + PF who can switch and guard the interior. And, paired with KCP and Gafford, that’s three excellent defenders in the front court.

Game-changing.

Plus Deni, who has already shown promise on D and is likely to get better.

You can afford to keep a Bertans — who doesn’t play D, who’s just a gunner — around with a frontcourt like that. Assuming he stays.

Also, Kispert won’t be forced to do too much, too early.

Yeah, yeah — we need a point guard. But we NEED Siakam.

Didn’t some observer somewhere say that adding another all-star was a priority? That it would go some ways toward mollifying Beal that the team is serious about competing?

Well, this absolutely does that.

Gafford
Siakam
Caldwell-Pope
Beal
____/Holiday

With a bench of:

Avdija
Kispert
Bertans
Bryant
Harrell
Holiday/Winston
Todd

Come on, how can you say you’re not intrigued/excited?

A starting 5 that can play D, score, and hit some 3s.

With shooting *galore* off the bench. Bombs awaaaay!

You're drawing a picture. It's a nice picture too. No surprise, given that you get to describe the figures in the picture. What they're doing. How they're doing it. Where they stand while doing it. Etc.

In my experience, the world rarely resembles the pictures we draw. Thus, for example, what people do today most usually resembles what they did yesterday.

What Pascal Siakam did last season, therefore, is likely to be the best guide to what he'll do this year. What he would do with us, were he traded to us.

Does this make sense to you the way it does to me? Or, do you think instead that Pascal Siakam will consult the picture in your head? Or maybe, more easily, the write-up just above? In this regard, btw, do you think he will be surprised to find that in your story he is expected to be our "starting 5," given that Center is a position which, in his 5 years in the NBA, he has never played?

[Dat2U]

Siakam was the #2 option on a championship team. He has had his struggles as a #1 option since Kawhi left. Different roles can produce different results.

[Benjammin]

I don't think the Wizards would put the best package available to get Siakam and I see the concerns with his huge salary. But I highly doubt we'll be able to use pure cap room next year to get a better player. So, for me it depends on what they have to give up to get him. What the Raptors would seriously consider I probably wouldn't want to give up.

[payitforward]

Btw, to me this Siakam business is comedy. I'm not arguing with any -- certainly not with you, badinage -- I'm just thinking of it as funny. Especially given the intense desire to have Ujiri as our GM turning into him hornswoggling us into the being the destination for the player he needs to move in order to rebuild the Raps.

[badinage]

The top target has to be Siakam. Has to be.

That’d give them a front court creator + PF who can switch and guard the interior. And, paired with KCP and Gafford, that’s three excellent defenders in the front court.

Game-changing.

Plus Deni, who has already shown promise on D and is likely to get better.

You can afford to keep a Bertans — who doesn’t play D, who’s just a gunner — around with a frontcourt like that. Assuming he stays.

Also, Kispert won’t be forced to do too much, too early.

Yeah, yeah — we need a point guard. But we NEED Siakam.

Didn’t some observer somewhere say that adding another all-star was a priority? That it would go some ways toward mollifying Beal that the team is serious about competing?

Well, this absolutely does that.

Gafford
Siakam
Caldwell-Pope
Beal
____/Holiday

With a bench of:

Avdija
Kispert
Bertans
Bryant
Harrell
Holiday/Winston
Todd

Come on, how can you say you’re not intrigued/excited?

A starting 5 that can play D, score, and hit some 3s.

With shooting *galore* off the bench. Bombs awaaaay!

You're drawing a picture. It's a nice picture too. No surprise, given that you get to describe the figures in the picture. What they're doing. How they're doing it. Where they stand while doing it. Etc.

In my experience, the world rarely resembles the pictures we draw. Thus, for example, what people do today most usually resembles what they did yesterday.

What Pascal Siakam did last season, therefore, is likely to be the best guide to what he'll do this year. What he would do with us, were he traded to us.

Does this make sense to you the way it does to me? Or, do you think instead that Pascal Siakam will consult the picture in your head? Or maybe, more easily, the write-up just above? In this regard, btw, do you think he will be surprised to find that in your story he is expected to be our "starting 5," given that Center is a position which, in his 5 years in the NBA, he has never played?

No; he’s a 4.

When I used the phrase “starting 5,” I was referring to the starting 5 with Siakam on board — as a 4:

Gafford (5)
Siakam (4)
KCP (3)
Beal (2)
____ (1)

As I said above, that’s a starting 5 that can D up, switch, score, and board.

And the bench would be bombs away with shooting: Bertans (unless they find a deal for him); Kispert; Bryant (same as Bertans). Plus Deni.

[payitforward]

Siakam was the #2 option on a championship team. He has had his struggles as a #1 option since Kawhi left. Different roles can produce different results.

Sure. But, are you predicting anything at all about his future career? How good is he likely to be? Will he return to being the better player he was? Because, that is the important question here. The only one. The answer is simple: no, he won't.

[9 and 20]

Btw, to me this Siakam business is comedy. I'm not arguing with any -- certainly not with you, badinage -- I'm just thinking of it as funny. Especially given the intense desire to have Ujiri as our GM turning into him hornswoggling us into the being the destination for the player he needs to move in order to rebuild the Raps.

As much comedy as discussion of trading pick 15 for picks 27, 38, 42, 47, 51, 55, because the chart says so. I kid...