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Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0

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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#101 » by JF5 » Mon Aug 2, 2021 7:14 pm

tiderulz wrote:
dsg2021 wrote:Always saw WCJ as the COTF.. love the move if WCJ can be relatively healthy. And I hope we make sure of it by playing backup Centers a lot of minutes, like Bamba this season.


undersized center with bad outside shot, not great passer, not a shot blocker, no rim protection. what says COTF to you?


6-10... 270 pounds in the modern day NBA is undersized? He is able to guard wings on switches and has a good spacial awareness and pretty good BBIQ. He can shoot the midrange jumpshot and (which will eventually move to 3s) and he's underrated passer and is a pretty good rebounder. The only issue is he can't stay on the court which I believe will improve once his body adjust to the NBA workload.

I don't know what player you've been watching... But WCJ is a good one.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#102 » by pepe1991 » Mon Aug 2, 2021 7:16 pm

Bucks pay Bobby Portis $3,5M for being probably better player than Wendell... He is 26 yeras old btw, not some old fart.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#103 » by VFX » Mon Aug 2, 2021 7:20 pm

Bigs take a while to adjust IMO. Ayton was the #1 overall pick and only really showed up this season. WCJr should be solid if the price is correct.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#104 » by pepe1991 » Mon Aug 2, 2021 7:26 pm

MagicMatic wrote:Bigs take a while to adjust IMO. Ayton was the #1 overall pick and only really showed up this season. WCJr should be solid if the price is correct.


Ayton averaged 16 ppg, 10 rpg as a rookie. 18ppg, 11 rpg in second year. It's not like Ayton become good this year. Nobody noticed him before because:
a) Suns sucked
b) he was drafted in same year as Doncic and Trae

but despite Suns sucking, almost all advanced stats were pointing toward fact Ayton is positive impact on both ends.

Wendell isn't really "big" , i mean, sure he plays center, but guy is 6'9 and kind a overweight for that size witch limits his mobility and he has been injury prone.

Wendell's rookie year and year 3 by almost all stats are identical, he just did not show any signs of growth in his game.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#105 » by Ducklett » Mon Aug 2, 2021 7:33 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:Bigs take a while to adjust IMO. Ayton was the #1 overall pick and only really showed up this season. WCJr should be solid if the price is correct.


Ayton averaged 16 ppg, 10 rpg as a rookie. 18ppg, 11 rpg in second year. It's not like Ayton become good this year. Nobody noticed him before because:
a) Suns sucked
b) he was drafted in same year as Doncic and Trae

but despite Suns sucking, almost all advanced stats were pointing toward fact Ayton is positive impact on both ends.

Wendell isn't really "big" , i mean, sure he plays center, but guy is 6'9 and kind a overweight for that size witch limits his mobility and he has been injury prone.

Wendell's rookie year and year 3 by almost all stats are identical, he just did not show any signs of growth in his game.


This is a rare time that God-King Pepe and myself agree on something. I like WCJ as a 5 mil a year player. I think he a decent player, but he isn't good enough to be dropping real money on. Can you tell me 100% that he will even be better than Bamba this year?
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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#107 » by Knightro » Mon Aug 2, 2021 7:37 pm

I'd do 4/40 for WCJ. I most certainly wouldn't be thrilled with 4/70.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#108 » by basketballRob » Mon Aug 2, 2021 7:40 pm

Knightro wrote:I'd do 4/40 for WCJ. I most certainly wouldn't be thrilled with 4/70.
Bamba will get more than that next season.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#109 » by YosemiteSam » Mon Aug 2, 2021 7:43 pm

Knightro wrote:I'd do 4/40 for WCJ. I most certainly wouldn't be thrilled with 4/70.


I don't like the 4 years - I'd do 3/36 with year 3 a team option with a minimal amount guaranteed
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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#110 » by Knightro » Mon Aug 2, 2021 7:53 pm

basketballRob wrote:
Knightro wrote:I'd do 4/40 for WCJ. I most certainly wouldn't be thrilled with 4/70.
Bamba will get more than that next season.


I don't think he will, but if that's the case then let the Magic should just let them both walk and draft Chet in the top 5.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#111 » by jezzerinho » Mon Aug 2, 2021 8:01 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:Bigs take a while to adjust IMO. Ayton was the #1 overall pick and only really showed up this season. WCJr should be solid if the price is correct.


Ayton averaged 16 ppg, 10 rpg as a rookie. 18ppg, 11 rpg in second year. It's not like Ayton become good this year. Nobody noticed him before because:
a) Suns sucked
b) he was drafted in same year as Doncic and Trae

but despite Suns sucking, almost all advanced stats were pointing toward fact Ayton is positive impact on both ends.

Wendell isn't really "big" , i mean, sure he plays center, but guy is 6'9 and kind a overweight for that size witch limits his mobility and he has been injury prone.

Wendell's rookie year and year 3 by almost all stats are identical, he just did not show any signs of growth in his game.


Feel the same way. Just no need to invest heavily in this kid.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#112 » by BlueMagician » Mon Aug 2, 2021 8:51 pm

If we haven't learned anything from being Magic fans, we know the Magic will overpay the hell out of players to a level totally unacceptable to fans. WCJ will be another one of those terrible Magic contracts.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#113 » by tiderulz » Mon Aug 2, 2021 8:54 pm

MagicMatic wrote:Bigs take a while to adjust IMO. Ayton was the #1 overall pick and only really showed up this season. WCJr should be solid if the price is correct.

Ayton actually had his worst statistical year this year.

1st year - 16/10
2nd year - 18/12
3rd year - 14/10
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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#114 » by RookieStar » Mon Aug 2, 2021 8:58 pm

Do we really need to extend both players now?
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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#115 » by SOUL » Mon Aug 2, 2021 9:00 pm

BlueMagician wrote:If we haven't learned anything from being Magic fans, we know the Magic will overpay the hell out of players to a level totally unacceptable to fans. WCJ will be another one of those terrible Magic contracts.


Is this true? Vuc, Fournier, AG all had moveable/good contracts, Isaac if he's not injured is well worth it, Fultz is a bit of a gamble but it's not a crippling contract.

There's been things to criticize the front office for throughout the years but contracts have been pretty fair.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#116 » by tiderulz » Mon Aug 2, 2021 9:07 pm

SOUL wrote:
BlueMagician wrote:If we haven't learned anything from being Magic fans, we know the Magic will overpay the hell out of players to a level totally unacceptable to fans. WCJ will be another one of those terrible Magic contracts.


Is this true? Vuc, Fournier, AG all had moveable/good contracts, Isaac if he's not injured is well worth it, Fultz is a bit of a gamble but it's not a crippling contract.

There's been things to criticize the front office for throughout the years but contracts have been pretty fair.

i think it is true. he didnt say crippling contracts, he said contracts that were a level unacceptable to fans.

Fultz - not worth his deal, should be less. did like the last year was team option
Isaac - i dont see world beater from him even when healthy. I could live with the contract if he could play, unfortunately he is always injured
AG/Vuc/Fournier - all were likely overpaid for their production and impact for winning, but nothing too serious and nothing crippling.

and different front offices, but yes, the Magic have a history of overpaying (Biyombo, cough cough)
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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#117 » by SOUL » Mon Aug 2, 2021 9:25 pm

tiderulz wrote:i think it is true. he didnt say crippling contracts, he said contracts that were a level unacceptable to fans.


If anything, I think fans work under the assumption of like 2010 salaries and want what they consider a "fair deal" which would make players very underpaid. There's a different between crippling what you're able to offer anybody in the future versus paying for potential or rewarding a player with contract incentives/bonuses.

tiderulz wrote:Fultz - not worth his deal, should be less. did like the last year was team option
Isaac - i dont see world beater from him even when healthy. I could live with the contract if he could play, unfortunately he is always injured
AG/Vuc/Fournier - all were likely overpaid for their production and impact for winning, but nothing too serious and nothing crippling.

and different front offices, but yes, the Magic have a history of overpaying (Biyombo, cough cough)


I mean, these contracts are a far cry from Biyombo or Rashard Lewis. When I think of bad contracts I think of Kevin Love, Wiggins, etc.

Vucevic = 44th highest paid player, very worth contract in terms of talent
Gordon = 60th highest paid, sure, slight overpay but is young and obviously was very movable
Fournier = 67th highest paid, probably will fetch similar or higher this FA

The fact all three were moved and we got good value for two of them (Fournier's value was not as good just because of the bad timing, which is something to criticize the FO about..) shows that they are decent-good contracts.

Both Isaac and Fultz will put them around 60-70 highest paid as well. Isaac's contract has an injury clause thing and Fultz is only guaranteed this season and next season.

Like I said, there are things to complain about with this team but contracts seems pretty low on the list.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#118 » by tiderulz » Mon Aug 2, 2021 9:29 pm

SOUL wrote:
Both Isaac and Fultz will put them around 60-70 highest paid as well. Isaac's contract has an injury clause thing and Fultz is only guaranteed this season and next season.

Like I said, there are things to complain about with this team but contracts seems pretty low on the list.

the contracts on their own arent bad. the production that comes along with it is.

13/5 put Fultz around 30th for PG's.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#119 » by SOUL » Mon Aug 2, 2021 9:30 pm

Now, if we're arguing should we have committed to that trio and tied up money in three players that are second or third or fourth fiddles, that's an entire different story and I agree that we shouldn't have, I'm just talking about paying guys relative to their talent or the contracts being manageable enough to be moved or non-crippling. We've done decent since Biyombo.

I'd say Aminu's was the worst.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: New Head Coach Era 

Post#120 » by SOUL » Mon Aug 2, 2021 9:33 pm

tiderulz wrote:
SOUL wrote:
Both Isaac and Fultz will put them around 60-70 highest paid as well. Isaac's contract has an injury clause thing and Fultz is only guaranteed this season and next season.

Like I said, there are things to complain about with this team but contracts seems pretty low on the list.

the contracts on their own arent bad. the production that comes along with it is.

13/5 put Fultz around 30th for PG's.


Yeah, I mean it was predicated on a decent season he had with us and the assumption he wouldn't get hurt/will improve. It's only a 2 year deal in essence now and we are rebuilding so it's like whatever to me. He probably won't come anywhere close to making up for it, but if he didn't have an injury I think he'd probably play slightly below it which all in all is okay.

I just have memories of going to the general board and people CLOWNING Jaylen Brown's contract, Steph Curry's original contract which was like the biggest steal ever, Vuc's contract, etc. People hate most contracts in general unless you're completely underpaying for a player. A lot of those contracts look great in the future, some are terrible like most of the 2016 offseason.
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