2021-22 regular season thread

[Revenged25]

Why are we talking about trading for expensive PFs? It's our deepest position. We need 2s and 3s who can shoot from the outside.

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Yeah Siakam makes no sense. Though really we've got arguably 2 good options at SG with Sexton and Okoro but only 1 good option at SF in Okoro. So at minimum we need a quality SF. Unless of course they think Siakam can play SF... I don't think he can, but I mean can't make our spacing any worse than it was last year...

Our spacing is already worse than it was last season by virtue of swapping Mobley or Nance, for Love, and Rubio for Prince off the bench.

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Considering Nance and Love were hurt for much of the year, I don't think the swapping of Mobley for whichever one of them actually makes the Cavs worse with spacing so I think of Mobley vs whatever PF was healthy in a given game is a wash. Though bench shooting is taking a hit with the Rubio/Prince swap.

Though I think Mobley overall could improve out 3pt shooting since he's a good passer and with him being an actual threat to score in the short to midrange will likely be able to find more open 3pt opportunities for players like Garland/Sexton/Windler(if healthy)/Osman(if not slumping again). I think coaching will probably emphasis for our 1-3 to shoot more 3's in general since with Mobley/Allen front court they should be able to get the majority of the rebounds.

[jbk1234]

I’m happy if we do the following things the rest of the way.
1. Don’t pick up year 4 on Windler. If it bites us, oh well. He’s never healthy. Saves 4 million
2. Don’t extend Sexton. You can always do whatever you need to next summer. His hold is only 19million.
3. Work towards a buyout with Love by the trade deadline. Stretch waive him, and that should open up a fair amount of space in 2022-23. All of these things open up about 20 million minus the 2022draft pick’s salary.

Having landed no 2s or 3s who can shoot (Monk and Forbes are still out there) we're not in a position to decline Windler's option. As things stand today, the success of our team is tied to internal growth, especially with regard to shooting from range, from Windler, Okoro, Cedi, and Wade.

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[Revenged25]

I’m happy if we do the following things the rest of the way.
1. Don’t pick up year 4 on Windler. If it bites us, oh well. He’s never healthy. Saves 4 million
2. Don’t extend Sexton. You can always do whatever you need to next summer. His hold is only 19million.
3. Work towards a buyout with Love by the trade deadline. Stretch waive him, and that should open up a fair amount of space in 2022-23. All of these things open up about 20 million minus the 2022draft pick’s salary.

Having landed no 2s or 3s who can shoot (Monk and Forbes are still out there) we're not in a position to decline Windler's option. As things stand today, the success of our team is tied to internal growth, especially with regard to shooting from range, from Windler, Okoro, Cedi, and Wade.

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I'd also add Sexton and Garland into that mix. Both need to be taking more 3s. Garland just needs to be more decisive/aggressive since he passed up open 3pt shots several times because it was still early in the clock. He needs to take more of a Steph/Trae approach if he ever wants to become an elite scorer and even if it's early if there is a good look he needs to take that shot. For Sexton the fact that is more a spot-up 3pt shooter than off-the-dribble, the Mobley pick and Rubio signings could help in that regard getting him more spot-up 3 looks. But really he needs to develop the OTB 3pt shot and a step-back 3pt shot if he really wants a max contract.

[jbk1234]

I’m happy if we do the following things the rest of the way.
1. Don’t pick up year 4 on Windler. If it bites us, oh well. He’s never healthy. Saves 4 million
2. Don’t extend Sexton. You can always do whatever you need to next summer. His hold is only 19million.
3. Work towards a buyout with Love by the trade deadline. Stretch waive him, and that should open up a fair amount of space in 2022-23. All of these things open up about 20 million minus the 2022draft pick’s salary.

Having landed no 2s or 3s who can shoot (Monk and Forbes are still out there) we're not in a position to decline Windler's option. As things stand today, the success of our team is tied to internal growth, especially with regard to shooting from range, from Windler, Okoro, Cedi, and Wade.

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I'd also add Sexton and Garland into that mix. Both need to be taking more 3s. Garland just needs to be more decisive/aggressive since he passed up open 3pt shots several times because it was still early in the clock. He needs to take more of a Steph/Trae approach if he ever wants to become an elite scorer and even if it's early if there is a good look he needs to take that shot. For Sexton the fact that is more a spot-up 3pt shooter than off-the-dribble, the Mobley pick and Rubio signings could help in that regard getting him more spot-up 3 looks. But really he needs to develop the OTB 3pt shot and a step-back 3pt shot if he really wants a max contract.

I'm fine with both Garland and Sexton taking a couple more threes a game but having guys who are the primary ball handlers take more threes won't go as far at helping spacing as you'd like. It's the pinching down from the sides that's killing us.

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[Revenged25]

Having landed no 2s or 3s who can shoot (Monk and Forbes are still out there) we're not in a position to decline Windler's option. As things stand today, the success of our team is tied to internal growth, especially with regard to shooting from range, from Windler, Okoro, Cedi, and Wade.

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I'd also add Sexton and Garland into that mix. Both need to be taking more 3s. Garland just needs to be more decisive/aggressive since he passed up open 3pt shots several times because it was still early in the clock. He needs to take more of a Steph/Trae approach if he ever wants to become an elite scorer and even if it's early if there is a good look he needs to take that shot. For Sexton the fact that is more a spot-up 3pt shooter than off-the-dribble, the Mobley pick and Rubio signings could help in that regard getting him more spot-up 3 looks. But really he needs to develop the OTB 3pt shot and a step-back 3pt shot if he really wants a max contract.

I'm fine with both Garland and Sexton taking a couple more threes a game but having guys who are the primary ball handlers take more threes won't go as far at helping spacing as you'd like. It's the pinching down from the sides that's killing us.

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Well only Garland would be taking more 3s as a primary ball handler currently. Sexton being more of a spot up 3pt shooter would still be taking them off of a pass so that should still help when Mobley dishes it out to him, as long as his man crashes that is.

[jbk1234]

I'd also add Sexton and Garland into that mix. Both need to be taking more 3s. Garland just needs to be more decisive/aggressive since he passed up open 3pt shots several times because it was still early in the clock. He needs to take more of a Steph/Trae approach if he ever wants to become an elite scorer and even if it's early if there is a good look he needs to take that shot. For Sexton the fact that is more a spot-up 3pt shooter than off-the-dribble, the Mobley pick and Rubio signings could help in that regard getting him more spot-up 3 looks. But really he needs to develop the OTB 3pt shot and a step-back 3pt shot if he really wants a max contract.

I'm fine with both Garland and Sexton taking a couple more threes a game but having guys who are the primary ball handlers take more threes won't go as far at helping spacing as you'd like. It's the pinching down from the sides that's killing us.

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Well only Garland would be taking more 3s as a primary ball handler currently. Sexton being more of a spot up 3pt shooter would still be taking them off of a pass so that should still help when Mobley dishes it out to him, as long as his man crashes that is.

Sexton had the highest usage on the team last year. He was top 30 in the NBA. If you're telling me that he's going to do more catch and shooting, that will help.

[jbk1234]

Both Korkmaz and Bullock, two guys I would've liked to have signed, took about half the full MLE to sign for playoff teams. It's worth reflecting on when we talk about moves to clear more cap ahead of next summer.

[toooskies]

I’m happy if we do the following things the rest of the way.
1. Don’t pick up year 4 on Windler. If it bites us, oh well. He’s never healthy. Saves 4 million
2. Don’t extend Sexton. You can always do whatever you need to next summer. His hold is only 19million.
3. Work towards a buyout with Love by the trade deadline. Stretch waive him, and that should open up a fair amount of space in 2022-23. All of these things open up about 20 million minus the 2022draft pick’s salary.

Having landed no 2s or 3s who can shoot (Monk and Forbes are still out there) we're not in a position to decline Windler's option. As things stand today, the success of our team is tied to internal growth, especially with regard to shooting from range, from Windler, Okoro, Cedi, and Wade.

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I'd also add Sexton and Garland into that mix. Both need to be taking more 3s. Garland just needs to be more decisive/aggressive since he passed up open 3pt shots several times because it was still early in the clock. He needs to take more of a Steph/Trae approach if he ever wants to become an elite scorer and even if it's early if there is a good look he needs to take that shot. For Sexton the fact that is more a spot-up 3pt shooter than off-the-dribble, the Mobley pick and Rubio signings could help in that regard getting him more spot-up 3 looks. But really he needs to develop the OTB 3pt shot and a step-back 3pt shot if he really wants a max contract.

NBA tracking stats say Sexton had 2.4 catch-and-shoot 3pt attempts per game last year (made 40%) and 1.9 pull-ups (made 31%). Garland had 2.4 of each, making 43%/36%.

While Danny Green might be washed (after starting almost every game for the #1 team in the east?), he can still play better defense than anyone in our backcourt and shoots 40% from three, so I'm willing to add him into the mix for a good chunk of the MLE-- maybe even the full MLE with declining years after that. He's made a lot of money, though, so he'll probably ring chase.

[jbk1234]

Having landed no 2s or 3s who can shoot (Monk and Forbes are still out there) we're not in a position to decline Windler's option. As things stand today, the success of our team is tied to internal growth, especially with regard to shooting from range, from Windler, Okoro, Cedi, and Wade.

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I'd also add Sexton and Garland into that mix. Both need to be taking more 3s. Garland just needs to be more decisive/aggressive since he passed up open 3pt shots several times because it was still early in the clock. He needs to take more of a Steph/Trae approach if he ever wants to become an elite scorer and even if it's early if there is a good look he needs to take that shot. For Sexton the fact that is more a spot-up 3pt shooter than off-the-dribble, the Mobley pick and Rubio signings could help in that regard getting him more spot-up 3 looks. But really he needs to develop the OTB 3pt shot and a step-back 3pt shot if he really wants a max contract.

NBA tracking stats say Sexton had 2.4 catch-and-shoot 3pt attempts per game last year (made 40%) and 1.9 pull-ups (made 31%). Garland had 2.4 of each, making 43%/36%.

While Danny Green might be washed (after starting almost every game for the #1 team in the east?), he can still play better defense than anyone in our backcourt and shoots 40% from three, so I'm willing to add him into the mix for a good chunk of the MLE-- maybe even the full MLE with declining years after that. He's made a lot of money, though, so he'll probably ring chase.

Yuck, only if years two and three aren't guaranteed.

[Revenged25]

I'm fine with both Garland and Sexton taking a couple more threes a game but having guys who are the primary ball handlers take more threes won't go as far at helping spacing as you'd like. It's the pinching down from the sides that's killing us.

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Well only Garland would be taking more 3s as a primary ball handler currently. Sexton being more of a spot up 3pt shooter would still be taking them off of a pass so that should still help when Mobley dishes it out to him, as long as his man crashes that is.

Sexton had the highest usage on the team last year. He was top 30 in the NBA. If you're telling me that he's going to do more catch and shooting, that will help.

Considering that Usage% is based only on FGA, FTA, and Turnovers compared to the teams Total FGA, FTA, and Turnovers, that makes sense since Sexton was our go-to scorer and took the most FGA, drew the most FTA on the team, while still not being bad on turnovers honestly.

So really all Usage% shows is how often a player ended a possession. Outside of Garland and Sexton last year, who would you have wanted to end possessions consistently on the team? If you want Sexton to have a lower usage% then there needs to be someone better suited to finishing a possession than Sexton. This year Mobley will take some of the load off of Sexton so I can see Sexton's usage% dipping a little, but it's still going to be high based on his role on the team.

[jbk1234]

Well only Garland would be taking more 3s as a primary ball handler currently. Sexton being more of a spot up 3pt shooter would still be taking them off of a pass so that should still help when Mobley dishes it out to him, as long as his man crashes that is.

Sexton had the highest usage on the team last year. He was top 30 in the NBA. If you're telling me that he's going to do more catch and shooting, that will help.

Considering that Usage% is based only on FGA, FTA, and Turnovers compared to the teams Total FGA, FTA, and Turnovers, that makes sense since Sexton was our go-to scorer and took the most FGA, drew the most FTA on the team, while still not being bad on turnovers honestly.

So really all Usage% shows is how often a player ended a possession. Outside of Garland and Sexton last year, who would you have wanted to end possessions consistently on the team? If you want Sexton to have a lower usage% then there needs to be someone better suited to finishing a possession than Sexton. This year Mobley will take some of the load off of Sexton so I can see Sexton's usage% dipping a little, but it's still going to be high based on his role on the team.

Setting the debate you want to have aside, defenders will only stay with Sexton past the three point line if they think he's a threat to shoot it from out there as soon as he gets the ball. If they know he's going to want to dribble first, or drive, they know they have time to recover.

[Revenged25]

Sexton had the highest usage on the team last year. He was top 30 in the NBA. If you're telling me that he's going to do more catch and shooting, that will help.

Considering that Usage% is based only on FGA, FTA, and Turnovers compared to the teams Total FGA, FTA, and Turnovers, that makes sense since Sexton was our go-to scorer and took the most FGA, drew the most FTA on the team, while still not being bad on turnovers honestly.

So really all Usage% shows is how often a player ended a possession. Outside of Garland and Sexton last year, who would you have wanted to end possessions consistently on the team? If you want Sexton to have a lower usage% then there needs to be someone better suited to finishing a possession than Sexton. This year Mobley will take some of the load off of Sexton so I can see Sexton's usage% dipping a little, but it's still going to be high based on his role on the team.

Setting the debate you want to have aside, defenders will only stay with Sexton past the three point line if they think he's a threat to shoot it from out there as soon as he gets the ball. If they know he's going to want to dribble first, or drive, they know they have time to recover.

It's not that I want the debate, I actually just found out that's how usage% was calculated that way. I was honestly surprised it didn't also take assists into account.

But yeah, I think that he'll end up taking more catch-and-shoot 3pt attempts with Mobley and it should help since they won't be able to recover if they leave him, especially since he shoots 40% on those.

[toooskies]

Sexton had the highest usage on the team last year. He was top 30 in the NBA. If you're telling me that he's going to do more catch and shooting, that will help.

Considering that Usage% is based only on FGA, FTA, and Turnovers compared to the teams Total FGA, FTA, and Turnovers, that makes sense since Sexton was our go-to scorer and took the most FGA, drew the most FTA on the team, while still not being bad on turnovers honestly.

So really all Usage% shows is how often a player ended a possession. Outside of Garland and Sexton last year, who would you have wanted to end possessions consistently on the team? If you want Sexton to have a lower usage% then there needs to be someone better suited to finishing a possession than Sexton. This year Mobley will take some of the load off of Sexton so I can see Sexton's usage% dipping a little, but it's still going to be high based on his role on the team.

Setting the debate you want to have aside, defenders will only stay with Sexton past the three point line if they think he's a threat to shoot it from out there as soon as he gets the ball. If they know he's going to want to dribble first, or drive, they know they have time to recover.

Well, he shoots it 2.4 times a game. So not prolific, but he's at least a threat to do it.

[JonFromVA]

Is there a Jerami Grant type of player the Cavs could toss a top 3-5 protected 1st at? That's what I'm looking for.

Things could get interesting with Siakim if his relationship with Nurse is irreparable.

Why are we talking about trading for expensive PFs? It's our deepest position. We need 2s and 3s who can shoot from the outside.

Because he was the closest thing to a Jerami Grant type player I could think of that is believed to be available ...

[LivingLegend]

We have a good the Rockets 2nd we could trade for Ingles, but yeah, I've got zero interest in swapping any 1st for Ingles. Again we need 3 point shooting and it really doesn't matter who is starting at the 2 for that to be the case.

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Is there a Jerami Grant type of player the Cavs could toss a top 3-5 protected 1st at? That's what I'm looking for.

Things could get interesting with Siakim if his relationship with Nurse is irreparable.

Love it, lets do that. I truly feel this is the time to use that 22' first rounder to add 1 really good borderline AllStar level wing if they are out there. Siakam could be just that if he returns to his 2017-2019 form that shot 36% from 3.

PG- Garland
SG- Okoro
SF- Siakam
PF- Mobley
C- Allen

6th- Sexton

BN- Rubio
BN- Osman
BN- Love
BN- Nance
BN- Windler

[KuruptedCav]

Yeah it seems weird how everybody is throwing around mega money and the Cavs, who suck and have 1/2 their roster in rookie deals are somehow broke.

We could afford 3 Max players with LeBron James, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love + many veterans but just because we have Kevin Love sucking cap space we are tapped out?

The financials still dont line up for me. I understand the Cavs have 1 big bad contract, but where is all of this other money tied up at. Does Jarrett Allen's non contract combined with Love really screw the Cavs that hard?

The rule is that once you're over the cap, you stay over the cap and use the exceptions. A lot of the wings we targeted signed for less than market (read exception room) to sign with playoff teams. Some of those teams will be able to sign their FAs in a certain order to use both their cap space and the exceptions. Once you're in the tax, you play with TPEs, which you actually spend draft capital to create.

But, when I look at the Spurs, OKC, and Pistons, I see why we never attached an asset, of any kind, to move Love.



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So how does a team like Chicago who has 2 big contracts with Lavine/Vucivic + other 10m veterans go out and sign Caruso and Ball?

I know the Cavs are capped out but my brain just doesn't compute looking at the roster and seeing where they are even spending money besides Love.

Of the Cavs top-5 contracts, only one belongs to a starter. Jarrett Allen at $20 million. (Maybe LNJ and Cedi start? I’m not counting on it.). A team like Chicago is adding spend to starters…

There’s a chance the Cavs go into next season spending $47 million on starters and $70 million on their bench…

The Cavs have a lot of recent high draft picks. Mobley, Garland, Okoro, Sexton = 27.1 this year, $31.5 (next if CS plays on QO).

Then they have two expensive players who don’t contribute to their salary level. Love/Rubio combine for $49 million

Then the veteran players are on fair contracts with little “value” to them in Cedi and LNJ, for another $19 million.


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[LivingLegend]

The rule is that once you're over the cap, you stay over the cap and use the exceptions. A lot of the wings we targeted signed for less than market (read exception room) to sign with playoff teams. Some of those teams will be able to sign their FAs in a certain order to use both their cap space and the exceptions. Once you're in the tax, you play with TPEs, which you actually spend draft capital to create.

But, when I look at the Spurs, OKC, and Pistons, I see why we never attached an asset, of any kind, to move Love.



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So how does a team like Chicago who has 2 big contracts with Lavine/Vucivic + other 10m veterans go out and sign Caruso and Ball?

I know the Cavs are capped out but my brain just doesn't compute looking at the roster and seeing where they are even spending money besides Love.

Of the Cavs top-5 contracts, only one belongs to a starter. Jarrett Allen at $20 million. (Maybe LNJ and Cedi start? I’m not counting on it.). A team like Chicago is adding spend to starters…

There’s a chance the Cavs go into next season spending $47 million on starters and $70 million on their bench…

The Cavs have a lot of recent high draft picks. Mobley, Garland, Okoro, Sexton = 27.1 this year, $31.5 (next if CS plays on QO).

Then they have two expensive players who don’t contribute to their salary level. Love/Rubio combine for $49 million

Then the veteran players are on fair contracts with little “value” to them in Cedi and LNJ, for another $19 million.


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So your saying once the deadline happens and they buy out Love and stretch his contract the cap will look a lot better

[LivingLegend]

He finished with 38 which was the game high.

I would love to know why he plays like a superstar oversees but a role player in the NBA. What changes that much?

[LivingLegend]

I’m happy if we do the following things the rest of the way.
1. Don’t pick up year 4 on Windler. If it bites us, oh well. He’s never healthy. Saves 4 million
2. Don’t extend Sexton. You can always do whatever you need to next summer. His hold is only 19million.
3. Work towards a buyout with Love by the trade deadline. Stretch waive him, and that should open up a fair amount of space in 2022-23. All of these things open up about 20 million minus the 2022draft pick’s salary.

No, no no no, no. I am riding with Windler until the wheels fall off. Im not having this turn into another Danny Green/Joe Harris situation which is EXACTLY what its shaping up to become if the Cavs get impatient.

Windler WILL be good. The Cavs for once in their lives need to show patience and let him get healthy and on the floor.

I will speak it into existance Ball Family style

[Revenged25]

He finished with 38 which was the game high.

I would love to know why he plays like a superstar oversees but a role player in the NBA. What changes that much?

Probably same reason that it happens for guys like Cedi. Role within the team, toned down offensive schemes due to minimal time to practice/prep, and toned down defensive schemes due to minimal time to practice/prep