MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.3

[twix2500]

If the Heat are going to keep KZ this really sucks not to again have him in summer league

[BBallFreak]

That is correct

He can be combined with another player.

The problem is his BYC status. Because he's due such a hefty raise, we can only take back 50% of what we send out while the team taking him has to be able to absorb 100%. In other words, the only teams that could take him are cap space teams.

If we sign him to a $10 million contract we can only take back $5 million. We'd need to find a team that needs just a bit more flexibility to sign him and had a contract small enough to only equal half his contract belonging to a player of use to us.

It's just not feasible...

It's very feasible, we might need to use Iggy or KZ and you need the right team/player but it can be done and I bet they'll look at the options

But it really isn't because of the hard cap and Nunn's impending BYC status. If we can only take on $13 million, which is the minimum of what Nunn will want, and you'll want to add Oladipo or Iggy in sign and trade at around $6.5 million, they'll have to be willing to take on $19.5 million while only returning $13 million.

Do you get why that's not going to work? You need a team under the cap by less than what they're willing to pay Nunn, who needs a point guard, and had a contract small enough to fit in our range, belonging to a player who can help us.

That's a tall order...

[BBallFreak]

How does the hard cap effect the signing of players to minimum deals to meet the minimum acceptable numbers of players on the roster?

It's a hard cap. We can't go over it, even by minimum salaries...

[RexBoyWonder]

If the Heat are going to keep KZ this really sucks not to again have him in summer league

Why won't he be there?

[Variable-X]

He can be combined with another player.

The problem is his BYC status. Because he's due such a hefty raise, we can only take back 50% of what we send out while the team taking him has to be able to absorb 100%. In other words, the only teams that could take him are cap space teams.

If we sign him to a $10 million contract we can only take back $5 million. We'd need to find a team that needs just a bit more flexibility to sign him and had a contract small enough to only equal half his contract belonging to a player of use to us.

It's just not feasible...

It's very feasible, we might need to use Iggy or KZ and you need the right team/player but it can be done and I bet they'll look at the options

But it really isn't because of the hard cap and Nunn's impending BYC status. If we can only take on $13 million, which is the minimum of what Nunn will want, and you'll want to add Oladipo or Iggy in sign and trade at around $6.5 million, they'll have to be willing to take on $19.5 million while only returning $13 million.

Do you get why that's not going to work? You need a team under the cap by less than what they're willing to pay Nunn, who needs a point guard, and had a contract small enough to fit in our range, belonging to a player who can help us.

That's a tall order...

If nunn's market proves not to be there and he accepts the QO is he still viable to trade? Or do we then have to wait until a certain date to sign him? And not that I don't believe you regarding what a reasonable expectation on price for Nunn is, but is there anything that has been put out (especially in light of yesterday's change to the free agent market) stating his expected compensation? Because for teams with cap and a point guard need there are other options still available as well and it feels like teams with cap space are drying up pretty quick right now.

[MettaWorldPanda]

If the Heat are going to keep KZ this really sucks not to again have him in summer league

Why won't he be there?

They came out and said the players who participated in the olympics will be temporarily held out which was pretty much a wink wink that they might be traded. Achuiwa was the first. Expecting KZ next

[dean456]

I think if we somehow land Derozen, Lowry's salary number will come down to facilitate it and we will do something like load the contract with bonus clauses or something creative to compensate him. If there's anyone I trust whole heartedly in the front office its Andy Ellisburg and his ability to manage the cap and salaries.

[Variable-X]

How does the hard cap effect the signing of players to minimum deals to meet the minimum acceptable numbers of players on the roster?

It's a hard cap. We can't go over it, even by minimum salaries...

I understand that I am just wondering what rule takes precedence? If we hit the hard cap but don't have the minimum number of players on our team does that rule override the hard cap or vice versa. Could Andy who is rather good at cap gymnastics maybe be holding those roster spots open to force us to exceed the hard cap after pulling off a trade? Potentially trying to manipulate the rules by doing moves in a certain sequential order? I don't know this stuff all that well, but if two rules come into conflict like that then which rule is prioritized?

[RexBoyWonder]

If the Heat are going to keep KZ this really sucks not to again have him in summer league

Why won't he be there?

They came out and said the players who participated in the olympics will be temporarily held out which was pretty much a wink wink that they might be traded. Achuiwa was the first. Expecting KZ next

That's strange, If he's still here - why not let him play.

Unless there's an almost done trade with KZ in it

[MettaWorldPanda]

Why won't he be there?

They came out and said the players who participated in the olympics will be temporarily held out which was pretty much a wink wink that they might be traded. Achuiwa was the first. Expecting KZ next

That's strange, If he's still here - why not let him play.

Unless there's an almost done trade with KZ in it

Exactly. They did mention that they may be available to play in next round of summer league games but Achuiwa is now gone and KZ might be next.

[Variable-X]

They came out and said the players who participated in the olympics will be temporarily held out which was pretty much a wink wink that they might be traded. Achuiwa was the first. Expecting KZ next

That's strange, If he's still here - why not let him play.

Unless there's an almost done trade with KZ in it

Exactly. They did mention that they may be available to play in next round of summer league games but Achuiwa is now gone and KZ might be next.

It could be fear of potential injury, before they finish their moves and potentially want him available as a sweetener in a trade. You think about it the players that competed for their countries didn't have much in the way of rest this year. They might be worried about taxing him too much without a chance to recover.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Read on Twitter

Possibility if still on team

[BBallFreak]

It's very feasible, we might need to use Iggy or KZ and you need the right team/player but it can be done and I bet they'll look at the options

But it really isn't because of the hard cap and Nunn's impending BYC status. If we can only take on $13 million, which is the minimum of what Nunn will want, and you'll want to add Oladipo or Iggy in sign and trade at around $6.5 million, they'll have to be willing to take on $19.5 million while only returning $13 million.

Do you get why that's not going to work? You need a team under the cap by less than what they're willing to pay Nunn, who needs a point guard, and had a contract small enough to fit in our range, belonging to a player who can help us.

That's a tall order...

If nunn's market proves not to be there and he accepts the QO is he still viable to trade? Or do we then have to wait until a certain date to sign him? And not that I don't believe you regarding what a reasonable expectation on price for Nunn is, but is there anything that has been put out (especially in light of yesterday's change to the free agent market) stating his expected compensation? Because for teams with cap and a point guard need there are other options still available as well and it feels like teams with cap space are drying up pretty quick right now.

Oh sure he could get priced out of the market and end up accepting the qualifying offer, but he'd still be a BYC player because he'd be getting such a hefty raise. We could, technically, rescind that offer or keep him for the year.

I believe he would be tradable after a couple of months.

The problem (of course their is one) is that the team acquiring him wouldn't get his bird rights.

[BBallFreak]

How does the hard cap effect the signing of players to minimum deals to meet the minimum acceptable numbers of players on the roster?

It's a hard cap. We can't go over it, even by minimum salaries...

I understand that I am just wondering what rule takes precedence? If we hit the hard cap but don't have the minimum number of players on our team does that rule override the hard cap or vice versa. Could Andy who is rather good at cap gymnastics maybe be holding those roster spots open to force us to exceed the hard cap after pulling off a trade? Potentially trying to manipulate the rules by doing moves in a certain sequential order? I don't know this stuff all that well, but if two rules come into conflict like that then which rule is prioritized?

I'm pretty sure the hard cap takes priority.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Kelly Oubre should find his way on the Bulls. Leave DeRozan to us.

[Variable-X]

It's a hard cap. We can't go over it, even by minimum salaries...

I understand that I am just wondering what rule takes precedence? If we hit the hard cap but don't have the minimum number of players on our team does that rule override the hard cap or vice versa. Could Andy who is rather good at cap gymnastics maybe be holding those roster spots open to force us to exceed the hard cap after pulling off a trade? Potentially trying to manipulate the rules by doing moves in a certain sequential order? I don't know this stuff all that well, but if two rules come into conflict like that then which rule is prioritized?

I'm pretty sure the hard cap takes priority.

I didn't think teams were allowed to operate without a certain number of players on the roster. Again as someone that doesn't have any hands on experience with this I would imagine the broader and more commonly applied rule might override the hard cap as the hard cap can only be applied in very specific circumstances. This is the moment where I wish we had someone that used to work in an NBA front office to ask and learn from. Imagine how cool it would be to ask this question and get a response from someone like Sam Hinkie.

[AirP.]

I understand that I am just wondering what rule takes precedence? If we hit the hard cap but don't have the minimum number of players on our team does that rule override the hard cap or vice versa. Could Andy who is rather good at cap gymnastics maybe be holding those roster spots open to force us to exceed the hard cap after pulling off a trade? Potentially trying to manipulate the rules by doing moves in a certain sequential order? I don't know this stuff all that well, but if two rules come into conflict like that then which rule is prioritized?

I'm pretty sure the hard cap takes priority.

I didn't think teams were allowed to operate without a certain number of players on the roster. Again as someone that doesn't have any hands on experience with this I would imagine the broader and more commonly applied rule might override the hard cap as the hard cap can only be applied in very specific circumstances. This is the moment where I wish we had someone that used to work in an NBA front office to ask and learn from. Imagine how cool it would be to ask this question and get a response from someone like Sam Hinkie.

One, even though it is not specific to the hard cap. While it is more widely known that the NBA makes it easier for teams to sign veterans at the minimum by paying part of their salary and only counting them at the two-year minimum for the salary cap and luxury tax, there is another rule that comes into play in these situations.

Because teams would still save money signing players with less than two years of experience since they make less than the subsidized veterans minimum, the CBA typically counts minimum contracts for these signings with zero or one year of experience at the two-year minimum instead of their actual salary for the purposes of the salary cap, luxury tax and hard cap. However, there is an exception that became very relevant in the 2020 offseason: Second-round draft picks count at their lower actual salary rather than getting bumped up to that higher rate. That is a big reason why the Bucks acquired the draft rights to Jordan Nwora and Sam Merrill then signed both to full NBA contracts rather than two-ways. Doing so gave Milwaukee more breathing room under the hard cap.

https://theathletic.com/2251063/2020/12/11/danny-leroux-nba-hard-cap-q-and-a-what-is-it-why-does-it-exist/

[BBallFreak]

I understand that I am just wondering what rule takes precedence? If we hit the hard cap but don't have the minimum number of players on our team does that rule override the hard cap or vice versa. Could Andy who is rather good at cap gymnastics maybe be holding those roster spots open to force us to exceed the hard cap after pulling off a trade? Potentially trying to manipulate the rules by doing moves in a certain sequential order? I don't know this stuff all that well, but if two rules come into conflict like that then which rule is prioritized?

I'm pretty sure the hard cap takes priority.

I didn't think teams were allowed to operate without a certain number of players on the roster. Again as someone that doesn't have any hands on experience with this I would imagine the broader and more commonly applied rule might override the hard cap as the hard cap can only be applied in very specific circumstances. This is the moment where I wish we had someone that used to work in an NBA front office to ask and learn from. Imagine how cool it would be to ask this question and get a response from someone like Sam Hinkie.

I agree with you. That would be cool. But I'm pretty sure I'm right here. It's up to the hard capped team to figure out how to make the math work. That's why things like roster penalties exist - to keep teams like us from abusing the system too much.

In other words, if we don't meet the minimum players requirement, we can't just use every penny of our cap space. Their are cap holds on place to make sure we can't do that.

[RexBoyWonder]

Andy needs to pull something out of his ass that enables us to either sign and trade Nunn (+ Iggy and/or sweetener if needed) for Derozon or for a legit PF, or keep Nunn till trade deadline and flip him then.

Nunn is out last bullet in the chamber

[BenoUdrihFTL]

Any news on Iggy? I assume there's mutual interest with GSW, perhaps we can do a S&T for Eric Paschall; 25yo PF hit 33% from 3 and due a partially guaranteed $1.8 this season, nothing special but another versatile body for the frontline. Reality is we're gonna need another PF in order to load manage Tucker during the RS