2021-22 regular season thread

[Revenged25]

I’m happy if we do the following things the rest of the way.
1. Don’t pick up year 4 on Windler. If it bites us, oh well. He’s never healthy. Saves 4 million
2. Don’t extend Sexton. You can always do whatever you need to next summer. His hold is only 19million.
3. Work towards a buyout with Love by the trade deadline. Stretch waive him, and that should open up a fair amount of space in 2022-23. All of these things open up about 20 million minus the 2022draft pick’s salary.

No, no no no, no. I am riding with Windler until the wheels fall off. Im not having this turn into another Danny Green/Joe Harris situation which is EXACTLY what its shaping up to become if the Cavs get impatient.

Windler WILL be good. The Cavs for once in their lives need to show patience and let him get healthy and on the floor.

I will speak it into existance Ball Family style

Only reason you don't pick it up is if he's out for the majority of the season with injury again IMO.

[LivingLegend]

He finished with 38 which was the game high.

I would love to know why he plays like a superstar oversees but a role player in the NBA. What changes that much?

Probably same reason that it happens for guys like Cedi. Role within the team, toned down offensive schemes due to minimal time to practice/prep, and toned down defensive schemes due to minimal time to practice/prep

lol true story. I always see on twitter that Cedi for Turkey balled out and dropped 27/5/6 leading the team to a win and Im always like WTF where is that at when he plays in Cleveland. Hes like the LeBron James of Turkey but when he comes to the NBA hes a JAG.

[LivingLegend]

I’m happy if we do the following things the rest of the way.
1. Don’t pick up year 4 on Windler. If it bites us, oh well. He’s never healthy. Saves 4 million
2. Don’t extend Sexton. You can always do whatever you need to next summer. His hold is only 19million.
3. Work towards a buyout with Love by the trade deadline. Stretch waive him, and that should open up a fair amount of space in 2022-23. All of these things open up about 20 million minus the 2022draft pick’s salary.

No, no no no, no. I am riding with Windler until the wheels fall off. Im not having this turn into another Danny Green/Joe Harris situation which is EXACTLY what its shaping up to become if the Cavs get impatient.

Windler WILL be good. The Cavs for once in their lives need to show patience and let him get healthy and on the floor.

I will speak it into existance Ball Family style

Only reason you don't pick it up is if he's out for the majority of the season with injury again IMO.

Short of getting his foot amputated, the Cavs have nothing to lose by keeping him as long as possible and figuring out who he really is. He has too many special tools from college that Im giving up on. He plays SF and the Cavs are allergic to caring about SFs, he is the best player on the team operating off the ball, he can guard multiple positions well and he is a dead eye shooter which the Cavs desperately need.

Please, lord be patient. The Cavs give up, he goes to the Indiana Pacers and turns into Duncan Robinson. Calling it.

Between having scars from Green/Harris and the Cavs dumping KPJ for nothing I have developed PTSD from getting rid of any young prospect who has even shown the smallest amount of flash/capability.

[Revenged25]

No, no no no, no. I am riding with Windler until the wheels fall off. Im not having this turn into another Danny Green/Joe Harris situation which is EXACTLY what its shaping up to become if the Cavs get impatient.

Windler WILL be good. The Cavs for once in their lives need to show patience and let him get healthy and on the floor.

I will speak it into existance Ball Family style

Only reason you don't pick it up is if he's out for the majority of the season with injury again IMO.

Short of getting his foot amputated, the Cavs have nothing to lose by keeping him as long as possible and figuring out who he really is. He has too many special tools from college that Im giving up on. He plays SF and the Cavs are allergic to caring about SFs, he is the best player on the team operating off the ball, he can guard multiple positions well and he is a dead eye shooter which the Cavs desperately need.

Please, lord be patient. The Cavs give up, he goes to the Indiana Pacers and turns into Duncan Robinson. Calling it.

Between having scars from Green/Harris and the Cavs dumping KPJ for nothing I have developed PTSD from getting rid of any young prospect who has even shown the smallest amount of flash/capability.

If he misses 60+% of the season again, he's played all of 31 games in 2 years so far, all last year, then he provides absolutely nothing to the Cavs and they'd be better off bringing in a young G-Leaguer and see if he can perform at the next level.

The most important trait anyone can have is availability. Someone could score 102 points a game on perfect 3pt shooting with amazing passing and defense, but if they are only available for 1 game a year he might as well not even be part of the team.

[LivingLegend]

Only reason you don't pick it up is if he's out for the majority of the season with injury again IMO.

Short of getting his foot amputated, the Cavs have nothing to lose by keeping him as long as possible and figuring out who he really is. He has too many special tools from college that Im giving up on. He plays SF and the Cavs are allergic to caring about SFs, he is the best player on the team operating off the ball, he can guard multiple positions well and he is a dead eye shooter which the Cavs desperately need.

Please, lord be patient. The Cavs give up, he goes to the Indiana Pacers and turns into Duncan Robinson. Calling it.

Between having scars from Green/Harris and the Cavs dumping KPJ for nothing I have developed PTSD from getting rid of any young prospect who has even shown the smallest amount of flash/capability.

If he misses 60+% of the season again, he's played all of 31 games in 2 years so far, all last year, then he provides absolutely nothing to the Cavs and they'd be better off bringing in a young G-Leaguer and see if he can perform at the next level.

The most important trait anyone can have is availability. Someone could score 102 points a game on perfect 3pt shooting with amazing passing and defense, but if they are only available for 1 game a year he might as well not even be part of the team.

Right but you have to bank on health at some point. Danny Green only played in 20 games for the Cavs and then went to SA where he played in 65+ games and shot 43% from 3. Joe Harris only played in 55 games in 2 years and had season ending foot surgery and then went to BKN where he appeared in 78 games and shot 42% from 3.

Getting rid of Windler despite 2 years of injury plagued seasons would line up almost exactly with Green/Harris' situations

[Revenged25]

Short of getting his foot amputated, the Cavs have nothing to lose by keeping him as long as possible and figuring out who he really is. He has too many special tools from college that Im giving up on. He plays SF and the Cavs are allergic to caring about SFs, he is the best player on the team operating off the ball, he can guard multiple positions well and he is a dead eye shooter which the Cavs desperately need.

Please, lord be patient. The Cavs give up, he goes to the Indiana Pacers and turns into Duncan Robinson. Calling it.

Between having scars from Green/Harris and the Cavs dumping KPJ for nothing I have developed PTSD from getting rid of any young prospect who has even shown the smallest amount of flash/capability.

If he misses 60+% of the season again, he's played all of 31 games in 2 years so far, all last year, then he provides absolutely nothing to the Cavs and they'd be better off bringing in a young G-Leaguer and see if he can perform at the next level.

The most important trait anyone can have is availability. Someone could score 102 points a game on perfect 3pt shooting with amazing passing and defense, but if they are only available for 1 game a year he might as well not even be part of the team.

Right but you have to bank on health at some point. Danny Green only played in 20 games for the Cavs and then went to SA where he played in 65+ games and shot 43% from 3. Joe Harris only played in 55 games in 2 years and had season ending foot surgery and then went to BKN where he appeared in 78 games and shot 42% from 3.

Getting rid of Windler despite 2 years of injury plagued seasons would line up almost exactly with Green/Harris' situations

Green was also cut by the Spurs and once he showed he bought into the Spurs way of playing Pop brought him back and built him into the player that he is today.

[Harper4Ferry?]

I don’t feel comfortable guaranteeing 4 million for a guy who had barely played and when he’s played isn’t anything special. Especially when he’s not even ready for summer league this summer. Let him go out there and earn some value

[Revenged25]

I don’t feel comfortable guaranteeing 4 million for a guy who had barely played and when he’s played isn’t anything special. Especially when he’s not even ready for summer league this summer. Let him go out there and earn some value

If he comes back in the first quarter of the season and ends up playing 70% of the season with good bench production, I say we keep him. Less than that then the spot is better spent on a G-League prospect IMO.

[Harper4Ferry?]

You have to pick it up before the season.

[Revenged25]

You have to pick it up before the season.

They already picked up the option for this year. It's next year's option that's up for debate and I'm pretty sure they can wait till this season is over to pick it up. Otherwise what's the point of a team option if you have to make it a full season before the season of the option.

[Harper4Ferry?]

You have to pick it up before the season.

They already picked up the option for this year. It's next year's option that's up for debate and I'm pretty sure they can wait till this season is over to pick it up. Otherwise what's the point of a team option if you have to make it a full season before the season of the option.

You’re not understanding. They picked up his option for this season before last season started. They’ll have to make a decision in October for his option on 2022-23

[LivingLegend]

Read on Twitter

[Revenged25]

You have to pick it up before the season.

They already picked up the option for this year. It's next year's option that's up for debate and I'm pretty sure they can wait till this season is over to pick it up. Otherwise what's the point of a team option if you have to make it a full season before the season of the option.

You’re not understanding. They picked up his option for this season before last season started. They’ll have to make a decision in October for his option on 2022-23

So rookie options are different than regular team options. Got it.

[Wisedude]

Cavs need to keep all their 1st round draft picks going forward as that is the future life blood of the franchise.

[KuruptedCav]

So how does a team like Chicago who has 2 big contracts with Lavine/Vucivic + other 10m veterans go out and sign Caruso and Ball?

I know the Cavs are capped out but my brain just doesn't compute looking at the roster and seeing where they are even spending money besides Love.

Of the Cavs top-5 contracts, only one belongs to a starter. Jarrett Allen at $20 million. (Maybe LNJ and Cedi start? I’m not counting on it.). A team like Chicago is adding spend to starters…

There’s a chance the Cavs go into next season spending $47 million on starters and $70 million on their bench…

The Cavs have a lot of recent high draft picks. Mobley, Garland, Okoro, Sexton = 27.1 this year, $31.5 (next if CS plays on QO).

Then they have two expensive players who don’t contribute to their salary level. Love/Rubio combine for $49 million

Then the veteran players are on fair contracts with little “value” to them in Cedi and LNJ, for another $19 million.


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So your saying once the deadline happens and they buy out Love and stretch his contract the cap will look a lot better

If they stretch him, yeah. I don’t know that I’d stretch him out vs just biting the bullet for 2022/23. I’d imagine it would depend on what happens with Sexton.

Assuming they use their NTMLE on a multi-year deal, Mobley signs at scale, Windler year 4 is picked up, and Allen is a straight 20 contract, with Love, they are looking at $117million (including Sextons QO) in actual money, but with a cap number of $126-127 million pending resolution of Sexton situation.

If they stretch him across three years, that brings them down to $98 ($108 with CS cap hold)million.

Assuming a Cap of $116 million, they are still stuck on the MLE unless Collin goes without taking on salary, either through RFA or traded into space.

The extra $9.5 in 2023 & 2024 seasons complicates…


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[JonFromVA]

Well only Garland would be taking more 3s as a primary ball handler currently. Sexton being more of a spot up 3pt shooter would still be taking them off of a pass so that should still help when Mobley dishes it out to him, as long as his man crashes that is.

Sexton had the highest usage on the team last year. He was top 30 in the NBA. If you're telling me that he's going to do more catch and shooting, that will help.

Considering that Usage% is based only on FGA, FTA, and Turnovers compared to the teams Total FGA, FTA, and Turnovers, that makes sense since Sexton was our go-to scorer and took the most FGA, drew the most FTA on the team, while still not being bad on turnovers honestly.

So really all Usage% shows is how often a player ended a possession. Outside of Garland and Sexton last year, who would you have wanted to end possessions consistently on the team? If you want Sexton to have a lower usage% then there needs to be someone better suited to finishing a possession than Sexton. This year Mobley will take some of the load off of Sexton so I can see Sexton's usage% dipping a little, but it's still going to be high based on his role on the team.

Just about anybody on the team with an open dunk/layup (give or take Delly).

What gets brushed under the rug with the push towards scoring points is that the first goal of running offense is to create can't miss shots and high % shots - and after everything else fails - then the ball should move to whoever has the highest chance to create something on their own.

Alas, when the paint collapses the easiest shots get harder for everybody, but hey, that's where having a pair of 7-footers helps out.

That's one reason you won't hear me demanding that Garland should play more selfishly. We can wait for his confidence to grow organically rather than force him in to a position where he's actively hurting the team clanking tough shots.

[LivingLegend]

Cavs need to keep all their 1st round draft picks going forward as that is the future life blood of the franchise.

Yes and no. I can see it both ways. On one hand, we have enough 19-23 year olds on this roster and they really could use a boost from getting a proven borderline All Star with their 22' first to raise all ships. On the other hand, the Cavs cant attract FAs so they need to hit through the draft.

Given where the current roster construction is, I would much prefer the Cavs try to take that next step right now by trading the pick for a guy who can sort of lead all of these young players who seemingly have had zero direction for the past 4 years. You know, a player like Kevin Love was supposed to be during this rebuild.

Not sure who that is, or whose available, but man could they use it. Eventually you have to start winning and not care about forever collecting assets for the future. We have spent the last 3-4 years collecting assets and turned them into a bunch of top 5 picks. Its time to start winning by getting a player who can help right now and bring all of those young pieces we have together.

[Revenged25]

Sexton had the highest usage on the team last year. He was top 30 in the NBA. If you're telling me that he's going to do more catch and shooting, that will help.

Considering that Usage% is based only on FGA, FTA, and Turnovers compared to the teams Total FGA, FTA, and Turnovers, that makes sense since Sexton was our go-to scorer and took the most FGA, drew the most FTA on the team, while still not being bad on turnovers honestly.

So really all Usage% shows is how often a player ended a possession. Outside of Garland and Sexton last year, who would you have wanted to end possessions consistently on the team? If you want Sexton to have a lower usage% then there needs to be someone better suited to finishing a possession than Sexton. This year Mobley will take some of the load off of Sexton so I can see Sexton's usage% dipping a little, but it's still going to be high based on his role on the team.

Just about anybody on the team with an open dunk/layup (give or take Delly).

What gets brushed under the rug with the push towards scoring points is that the first goal of running offense is to create can't miss shots and high % shots - and after everything else fails - then the ball should move to whoever has the highest chance to create something on their own.

Alas, when the paint collapses the easiest shots get harder for everybody, but hey, that's where having a pair of 7-footers helps out.

That's one reason you won't hear me demanding that Garland should play more selfishly. We can wait for his confidence to grow organically rather than force him in to a position where he's actively hurting the team clanking tough shots.

Who are these open dunk/layup players? Also are they more or less likely to convert than Sexton? All of this talk about "can't miss shots" is glossing over the fact that the majority of our roster this year was probably more likely to miss than Sexton was.

[JonFromVA]

I would love to know why he plays like a superstar oversees but a role player in the NBA. What changes that much?

Probably same reason that it happens for guys like Cedi. Role within the team, toned down offensive schemes due to minimal time to practice/prep, and toned down defensive schemes due to minimal time to practice/prep

lol true story. I always see on twitter that Cedi for Turkey balled out and dropped 27/5/6 leading the team to a win and Im always like WTF where is that at when he plays in Cleveland. Hes like the LeBron James of Turkey but when he comes to the NBA hes a JAG.

We saw Cedi trying to be that guy at times last season, and for the most part it wasn't pretty, but he flashed here and there.

Remember when Anthony Parker was the best player in Europe for a couple of years? He was a solid to good player in the NBA, but the level of competition, ruleset, and team-oriented play-style just emphasizes very different things.

Sarunas Jasikevicious once anihillated team USA with pick and rolls because Team USA at the time didn't know how to deal with "European style screens" as a team rather than as individual defenders.

[JonFromVA]

Considering that Usage% is based only on FGA, FTA, and Turnovers compared to the teams Total FGA, FTA, and Turnovers, that makes sense since Sexton was our go-to scorer and took the most FGA, drew the most FTA on the team, while still not being bad on turnovers honestly.

So really all Usage% shows is how often a player ended a possession. Outside of Garland and Sexton last year, who would you have wanted to end possessions consistently on the team? If you want Sexton to have a lower usage% then there needs to be someone better suited to finishing a possession than Sexton. This year Mobley will take some of the load off of Sexton so I can see Sexton's usage% dipping a little, but it's still going to be high based on his role on the team.

Just about anybody on the team with an open dunk/layup (give or take Delly).

What gets brushed under the rug with the push towards scoring points is that the first goal of running offense is to create can't miss shots and high % shots - and after everything else fails - then the ball should move to whoever has the highest chance to create something on their own.

Alas, when the paint collapses the easiest shots get harder for everybody, but hey, that's where having a pair of 7-footers helps out.

That's one reason you won't hear me demanding that Garland should play more selfishly. We can wait for his confidence to grow organically rather than force him in to a position where he's actively hurting the team clanking tough shots.

Who are these open dunk/layup players? Also are they more or less likely to convert than Sexton? All of this talk about "can't miss shots" is glossing over the fact that the majority of our roster this year was probably more likely to miss than Sexton was.

Collin was 15th on the team in FG% between 0-3 feet, but even that misses the point. I'm not expecting those guys to create their own open layup or dunk, ideally it happens due to the execution of the offense and ball movement with proper spacing and players moving the ball a team can generate much easier shots than we take in a half court offense. Transition offense is another source of easy offense - and often starts with solid defense.

Do we care who's running the floor, getting the outlet pass, and laying the ball in the hoop? We shouldn't. The real problem is forcing a bad shot, making a deflection, getting a steal, or grabbing the rebound that ignites the fast break.

Doing things the hard way is ... well ... hard.