Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0

[Horcy]

This might be the first time in my life that I’m perfectly content with the Magic sitting free agency out.

Make a small move or two and call it an off-season.

Absolutely zero need for a Jeff Green/Ben Gordon-esque signing.

Same here.

[Anti Chalmers]

This might be the first time in my life that I’m perfectly content with the Magic sitting free agency out.

Make a small move or two and call it an off-season.

Absolutely zero need for a Jeff Green/Ben Gordon-esque signing.

Same here.

Same here. I’m content with the roster. Tank another year, maybe make a big splash in FA next offseason.

[Orlando_Pride]

Keeping our books clean until we are ready to make a splash is what we need to do. Our salary really clears off next year, especially if Ross is traded for an expiring. I don't think well be ready for it next year so interested on how Weltman would handle it.

[YosemiteSam]

This might be the first time in my life that I’m perfectly content with the Magic sitting free agency out.

Make a small move or two and call it an off-season.

Absolutely zero need for a Jeff Green/Ben Gordon-esque signing.

Same here.

Same here. I’m content with the roster. Tank another year, maybe make a big splash in FA next offseason.

I don't know how you define tanking, but I would not classify 21-22 as a tanking year. We should play our young guys heavy minutes and develop good habits, but if they win then we keep playing them. Tanking implies we shut down players (like OKC did with SGA last season) to get a poor record even if they are young and healthy. I think our lottery results last year proved that is foolhardy.

That said, I agree do not add middling veterans to take minutes from the young talent

[MagicTownBaller]

The only player I want is Paul Millsap or Taj Gibson. Maybe a vet SF as well but I wanted Porter Jr for that


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[BlueMagician]

Robin Lopez to the Magic...good signing!

[OhioRock3]

Robin Lopez to the Magic...good signing!

I agree! Great vet for the young guys!

[BlueMagician]

1 year/$5M...nice deal as well!

[YosemiteSam]

Lopez is perfect. Like did some aliens take over Weltman's body? So many good decisions so far this year. Maybe someone sent Martins away and moved the office while he was away and he can't find them to meddle?

[basketballRob]

Ennis just tweeted this, maybe he's being signed, hope so.

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[Xatticus]

Both Isaac and Fultz will put them around 60-70 highest paid as well. Isaac's contract has an injury clause thing and Fultz is only guaranteed this season and next season.

Like I said, there are things to complain about with this team but contracts seems pretty low on the list.

the contracts on their own arent bad. the production that comes along with it is.

13/5 put Fultz around 30th for PG's.

Yeah, I mean it was predicated on a decent season he had with us and the assumption he wouldn't get hurt/will improve. It's only a 2 year deal in essence now and we are rebuilding so it's like whatever to me. He probably won't come anywhere close to making up for it, but if he didn't have an injury I think he'd probably play slightly below it which all in all is okay.

I just have memories of going to the general board and people CLOWNING Jaylen Brown's contract, Steph Curry's original contract which was like the biggest steal ever, Vuc's contract, etc. People hate most contracts in general unless you're completely underpaying for a player. A lot of those contracts look great in the future, some are terrible like most of the 2016 offseason.

I have to believe his contract was due to a few factors. Firstly, not bringing him back probably wasn't really an option for them. They gave up assets to get him and they probably weren't going to throw in the towel and admit defeat at that point. That trade was the one thing people could point to at the time to praise them. Secondly, they didn't have any other options at point guard. Finally, he had a massive cap hold attached to him due to being the first pick overall. Locking in both of those contracts (his and Isaac's) actually increased the team's flexibility assuming that renouncing him wasn't an option.

The issue is that Fultz' prospect status hinged on him being a terrific off-the-bounce shooter. That was almost the entirety of his value. He can't seem to shoot at all anymore. He is so far removed from what he was at Washington that people use Shaun Livingston as a favorable comp. Even if it works out with him, he is never going to be worth that contract. This is all completely independent from his knee injury. You can't even consider what he was as a prospect. You have to evaluate him as someone completely independent of who he was perceived to be because what made him a valuable prospect is completely gone. I just don't know how you can possibly arrive at the contract terms they did.

This isn't a situation where you are concerned with losing a guy if you don't agree to an extension. Restricted free agency serves a purpose. Let it serve its purpose. You can afford to let the market dictate the terms of contracts without risking losing the player. There was no reality where a team offers him anything resembling what Orlando did. How does he walk away from any multi-year offer given his injury history? It's just such a bad deal.

[Xatticus]

Bigs take a while to adjust IMO. Ayton was the #1 overall pick and only really showed up this season. WCJr should be solid if the price is correct.

Ayton actually had his worst statistical year this year.

1st year - 16/10
2nd year - 18/12
3rd year - 14/10

Nah. He has definitely gotten better. They added Paul. The dynamics changed and he isn't going to get the same number of touches, but he is a better player.

[Xatticus]

i think it is true. he didnt say crippling contracts, he said contracts that were a level unacceptable to fans.

If anything, I think fans work under the assumption of like 2010 salaries and want what they consider a "fair deal" which would make players very underpaid. There's a different between crippling what you're able to offer anybody in the future versus paying for potential or rewarding a player with contract incentives/bonuses.

Fultz - not worth his deal, should be less. did like the last year was team option
Isaac - i dont see world beater from him even when healthy. I could live with the contract if he could play, unfortunately he is always injured
AG/Vuc/Fournier - all were likely overpaid for their production and impact for winning, but nothing too serious and nothing crippling.

and different front offices, but yes, the Magic have a history of overpaying (Biyombo, cough cough)

I mean, these contracts are a far cry from Biyombo or Rashard Lewis. When I think of bad contracts I think of Kevin Love, Wiggins, etc.

Vucevic = 44th highest paid player, very worth contract in terms of talent
Gordon = 60th highest paid, sure, slight overpay but is young and obviously was very movable
Fournier = 67th highest paid, probably will fetch similar or higher this FA

The fact all three were moved and we got good value for two of them (Fournier's value was not as good just because of the bad timing, which is something to criticize the FO about..) shows that they are decent-good contracts.

Both Isaac and Fultz will put them around 60-70 highest paid as well. Isaac's contract has an injury clause thing and Fultz is only guaranteed this season and next season.

Like I said, there are things to complain about with this team but contracts seems pretty low on the list.

Some are worse than others. That doesn't really make another bad contract acceptable. Bad contracts are bad contracts. An organization in Orlando's situation can't afford to try to solve their issues by handing out extra money to get deals done. We have other disadvantages to overcome. Bad contracts just compound the issues of being a mid-size market with very little tradition or drawing power.

[Xatticus]

Rest of the league dropping big contracts and we're talking about signing players for 3 years less than 10m. Lol

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If the rest of the league is handing out bad deals, that's a good thing for us. Who won free agency in 2016? It certainly wasn't the teams that spent big.

[thelead]

Ennis just tweeted this, maybe he's being signed, hope so.

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I hope so too. I like his grit around our guys. Hopefully it’s a nice one year payday for him.

[Xatticus]

Would you guys do Terrence Ross to Cleveland for Cedi Osman?

I would.

[Xatticus]

Would like to see ennis get a good deal somewhere. I'm still hoping for Milsap for us.

Yeah, Ennis has a bit too much life left for me. I think he can actually help a contender. I'd be targeting a more washed veteran forward who'd be willing to provide a mentorship role. Millsap would work. Patterson could be interesting.

I'd bring back Wagner as a locker room/end of bench guy.

It's confusing to me. Someone should want Ennis, but it doesn't seem as though anyone does.

[Xatticus]

Remember last year when nobody would touch Lonzo Ball, fans on the general trade board said he wasn't worth a late first now he gets 4/85, and that sounds pretty cheap. Chicago just got a lot better. They must have a plan to re-sign Lavine, not sure how that money works, but a Ball Lavine backcourt sounds like a pretty good fit.

Honestly, I hope we don't sign any free agents. Was going to suggest Jarred Vanderbilt, but he his RFA. I have a bad feeling we are going to roll dice on Justice Winslow. Fill the roster with UDFAs or trade and bring back dead weight

I guess Evan made the right decision opting in last year to get 4/78 this year...pretty, pretty, pretty good.

It's strange. He can shoot now. He isn't a point guard, but he is a ball mover and he can play defense. Isn't that the sort of player that NOP should want?

I don't really like the fit with Chicago. I mean, he fits almost anywhere, but his glaring deficiency is his FTr and Chicago already had the lowest FTr in the league. They are going to have to shoot lights out every night to win games.

[jonbob17]

It's strange. He can shoot now. He isn't a point guard, but he is a ball mover and he can play defense. Isn't that the sort of player that NOP should want?

I don't really like the fit with Chicago. I mean, he fits almost anywhere, but his glaring deficiency is his FTr and Chicago already had the lowest FTr in the league. They are going to have to shoot lights out every night to win games.

Oh, really, I thought Chicago was perfect. They have good spacing (team shot 37% from 3 last year), especially with Vuc, and it looks like Patrick Williams is going to shoot. Ball is a good defender, should help Lavine, and i agree not a great point guard, but a good distributor, especially in transition. Lavine is so ball dominant, and Ball is a fairly low usage PG. Yah Ball isn't good at getting to the rim

Two 6'5" guards that are plus passers at their position. A center who is good at passing. And an interesting young combo forward that can shoot, and should be able to switch on D. And Thad Young who went 12/6/4 last season

Last year they played Williams a lot at the 3 next to Thad Young, i thought Williams would play more 4. Maybe they could add another player for Vuc to feed on cuts, or just another floor spacer that can man up, i guess what everybody could use. Yah I see they were dead last in FT attempts, maybe they need another guy that can get to the basket.

[jonbob17]

It's strange. He can shoot now. He isn't a point guard, but he is a ball mover and he can play defense. Isn't that the sort of player that NOP should want?

I don't really like the fit with Chicago. I mean, he fits almost anywhere, but his glaring deficiency is his FTr and Chicago already had the lowest FTr in the league. They are going to have to shoot lights out every night to win games.

I was actually going to suggest Derozan at the 3, but didn't think they had that kind of financial flexibility. Thad Young was so good last year, definite overlap with Williams. Young and a future first, seems like a heavy price, but they should be interesting.