Official: DeRozan! Player of the Week p69

[jnrjr79]

And this is what I was most interested in seeing. Now go ahead and sign that extension this year Zach, so we don't have to sorry about any drama next summer.

Since we don't have any cap space now, we will have to wait until next year for that extension.

Oh, I thought if re-signing w same team you did not have cap space. Didnt realize the rules changed on that.

They *can* extend him now. It just doesn't make sense for Zach to take it. The extension the Bulls can currently offer is based on Zach's current salary of ~$20M. So they can offer a 4-year contract with a slight bump to that salary. If they want to give him a max contract, which presumably they do, they have to open up cap space on top of the current salary, so they need to open up about $14M in cap space to do it now, which is likely infeasible. Next off season, they can give him a full five-year max without any restrictions or needed cap space, it just has some risk because Zach will be an unrestricted free agent.

[Friend_Of_Haley]

Bulls moving towards a Reinsdorf paradise. A competitive enough team to get long suffering fans excited and sell out the building. But very little chance of being good enough to win a ring and get really expensive.

Well if/when Zach gets the max next season they'll already be at or above the tax. So I guess we'll find out in a year if there is a new approach. Or if like, PWill is sold off for nothing.

[Friend_Of_Haley]

Dbl post

[FriedRise]

After the last several years, I have no problem if this roster as currently constructed isn't a championship contender. I mean, last year we couldn't even make the play-in for god's sake. It was embarrassing. The expectation should be a playoff appearance with a puncher's chance to get past the 1st round. Anything extra is gravy. If we fall short of that (let's say, a 1st round exit where we got swept in an uncompetitive series), AKME have plenty of assets to work with to retool. He has 3 All Star level players on the team and a few young prospects. They've done more with a lot less this past year.

But stranger things have happened in the NBA. Both Atlanta and Phoenix missed the playoffs and look at how far they got after a major restructuring in the offseason.

I certainly wouldn't write us off, not this early when we haven't even seen them play yet. The talent floor and ceiling have been raised, and it's now up to the coaches and players to make it work. The framework is there, you can see it. This isn't just a GarPax signing of past-their-prime veterans to get butts in seats at the UC and sell tickets. Of course health plays a major factor too, but that applies to every team.

[Jcool0]

Since we don't have any cap space now, we will have to wait until next year for that extension.

Oh, I thought if re-signing w same team you did not have cap space. Didnt realize the rules changed on that.

They *can* extend him now. It just doesn't make sense for Zach to take it. The extension the Bulls can currently offer is based on Zach's current salary of ~$20M. So they can offer a 4-year contract with a slight bump to that salary. If they want to give him a max contract, which presumably they do, they have to open up cap space on top of the current salary, so they need to open up about $14M in cap space to do it now, which is likely infeasible. Next off season, they can give him a full five-year max without any restrictions or needed cap space, it just has some risk because Zach will be an unrestricted free agent.

Less then zero he turns down a max contract. So the only issue would be the Bulls not wanting to pay him which i cant see happening.

[troza]

Would have been a great/fun story line during the 2022 WCF - DeMar vs Kawhi

The only great/fun story during the WCF is anyone but the Lakers vs anyone but the Clippers.

The "favourites" out the East are Milwaukee & Atlanta. Then there's everyone else, and it's as simple as that

I know that the Nets could use a better coach but they are the best team in the east on paper... all they need is to have their best players without injuries. Then I think that the Bucks are the #2 team on the East... I think Atlanta needs to prove that they are contenders. They were the #5 seed. Usually that's not a sign that they are favorites... like other teams in the past, I have the idea that they got the right matchups in the playoffs for them to look better than they actually were. That's just my opinion, a feeling for that team... you obviously can disagree as I don't think that's factual.

Hopefully they won't improve much so that the Bulls have a chance to get the best possible seed.

[Friend_Of_Haley]

He's 32 in 4 days.

3 year deal.

He will probably he traded as an expiring contract when he's close to 35. I'm looking at this as Chicago getting 2 solid years out of him.

Two years as the next window makes a lot of sense. Then Vooch is up and Derozan is a big expiring and you still have PWill in his last year of rookie deal. At that point, even if this team maxes out as a second round playoff team, you've gotten a couple valuable playoff runs and time to evaluate Zach as the alpha on an actual good team. And at that point decide if it's worth doubling down on (with plenty of assets to work with at that point) or try something else.

[D_GoLow]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/8/4/22608961/chicago-bulls-lonzo-ball-demar-derozan-free-agency

[weneeda2guard]

The ceiling on this team is not like say the knicks or pacers or Boston. We know what they are and what they will be.

Lavine is going to come back a better player after the Olympics. He has already proven to be one of the best players on a very stacked team. Is he on the level of durant steph, lebron,giannis kawhi etc no is he on the level of Tatum, luka, booker, Dame, Trae, etc i would argue yes. And I think most of the league would agree now

Derozan is a willing defender play maker who can get his own shot but knows his role. Him as a 3rd maybe 4th option is perfect for him

In all this madness we forgetting we have a all star center who can shoot the 3 rebound post up and can go for 30 and 15 any night

Coby returns in December and he is another explode for 30 any night type of player

But If ball can mature and become that generational pg many thought he was coming out of the draft and if Patrick Williams can be that kawhi kind of player the ceiling raises on this team greatly

And if ayo and simonovic become special role players we have a top 8-9 depending on what happens with lauri that is about as good as anyone in the east except the nets have durant, bucks have giannis and sixers have embiid.

Defensively we can be better than a lot of teams we have ahead of us.

So I don't have us in the upper echelon of the east but I do have us right there with the 2nd tier like Miami knicks Boston etc. But If our young prospects grow if Patrick Williams, ball, Lauri, coby ayo and simonovic take a next step we are going to be right there with only the bucks and nets ahead of us.

[superdave]

Player 1, age 31 season:
21.5ppg, 6.9reb, 7.1ast, 49.7% FG, 24.5% 3PT, 86.3 FT% on 8.0AT, 26.5 PER, .607 TS%, 106 DRTG (career)

Player 2, age 31 season:
21.6ppg, 4.2reb, 6.9ast, 49.5% FG, 25.7% 3PT, 88.0 FT% on 7.2 AT, 22.0 PER, 59.1 TS%, 110.6 DRTG (career)

Player 1, landed 4 years /186M 46M AAV
Player 2, landed 3 years / 85M 28M AAV

So, Player 1 (Jimmy Butler) offensive production for 60% of the price. Albeit with league average defensive rating. Just a thought, flame away...

[DJhitek]

Player 1, age 31 season:
21.5ppg, 6.9reb, 7.1ast, 49.7% FG, 24.5% 3PT, 86.3 FT% on 8.0AT, 26.5 PER, .607 TS%, 106 DRTG (career)

Player 2, age 31 season:
21.6ppg, 4.2reb, 6.9ast, 49.5% FG, 25.7% 3PT, 88.0 FT% on 7.2 AT, 22.0 PER, 59.1 TS%, 110.6 DRTG (career)

Player 1, landed 4 years /186M 46M AAV
Player 2, landed 3 years / 85M 28M AAV

So, Player 1 (Jimmy Butler) offensive production for 60% of the price. Albeit with league average defensive rating. Just a thought, flame away...

As a big Jimmy Butler supporter myself, I can confidently say that I wouldn’t trade a future first rounder for the ability to pay him (Butler) 28 million a year either.

Do I think Butler is a better player, sure, but if DeRozan was signed for 28 million a year with zero cost but the money on the contract I wouldn’t really have that big a problem considering the options available.

[barn34]

Player 1, age 31 season:
21.5ppg, 6.9reb, 7.1ast, 49.7% FG, 24.5% 3PT, 86.3 FT% on 8.0AT, 26.5 PER, .607 TS%, 106 DRTG (career)

Player 2, age 31 season:
21.6ppg, 4.2reb, 6.9ast, 49.5% FG, 25.7% 3PT, 88.0 FT% on 7.2 AT, 22.0 PER, 59.1 TS%, 110.6 DRTG (career)

Player 1, landed 4 years /186M 46M AAV
Player 2, landed 3 years / 85M 28M AAV

So, Player 1 (Jimmy Butler) offensive production for 60% of the price. Albeit with league average defensive rating. Just a thought, flame away...

I see where you're going with that obviously, but....

Jimmy's defense is a huge factor here. DDR is awful defensively.

Jimmy's also an alpha personality that can be an infection vector throughout your roster. For some teams, that's a negative as it can be combustible. For the right mix of players, that's an element that elevates your other pieces. Miami is the later. DDR isn't a negative by any means, just doesn't appear to be anywhere on Jimmy's level here, either.

Are those differences worth the salary difference? Depends on the team and situation. I still think DDR got overpaid a little, personally. But I also am aware it's likely a wash and it won't limit our roster building much in the grand scheme of things either.

[Jvaughn]

Since we don't have any cap space now, we will have to wait until next year for that extension.

Oh, I thought if re-signing w same team you did not have cap space. Didnt realize the rules changed on that.

I'm not a cap expert, but since his last contract wasn't a max, we would need to change this last year on the contract to a max deal and then get 4 more years at the max. To get his current deal up to a max, we need cap space to make it happen.

We still have his Bird rights. Why would we need cap space to resign our own player? I could be wrong, but I didn't think that mattered. If, so we're not going to have capspace next year either. You have DD, Ball, PWill, Vuc and Caruso's deals on the books still.

[detlef_schrempf]

I don't mind the duration. The amount is a bit rich though.

But while he's technically 31, he's like 31 and 99/100s. Let's not mislead to make the signing sound better.

Every damn signing you people are complaining about the amounts of these deals being too much. There's always some of you on every team's board who just hate the dollar amounts.

Wake up people! It costs money to bring players in. LOOK AROUND AT THE SALARIES IN THE LEAGUE!

DeRozan+Vooch for 50 mill is a great deal. Get over it unless you want to go back to the era of **** that we dealt with after Rose.

[logical_art]

I don't mind the duration. The amount is a bit rich though.

But while he's technically 31, he's like 31 and 99/100s. Let's not mislead to make the signing sound better.

Every damn signing you people are complaining about the amounts of these deals being too much. There's always some of you on every team's board who just hate the dollar amounts.

Wake up people! It costs money to bring players in. LOOK AROUND AT THE SALARIES IN THE LEAGUE!

DeRozan+Vooch for 50 mill is a great deal. Get over it unless you want to go back to the era of **** that we dealt with after Rose.

Why are you combining players to find individual players value?

[detlef_schrempf]

I don't mind the duration. The amount is a bit rich though.

But while he's technically 31, he's like 31 and 99/100s. Let's not mislead to make the signing sound better.

Every damn signing you people are complaining about the amounts of these deals being too much. There's always some of you on every team's board who just hate the dollar amounts.

Wake up people! It costs money to bring players in. LOOK AROUND AT THE SALARIES IN THE LEAGUE!

DeRozan+Vooch for 50 mill is a great deal. Get over it unless you want to go back to the era of **** that we dealt with after Rose.

Why are you combining players to find individual players value?

Because Vooch's amazing deal allows a little more flexibility. I'd rather have DeRozan for 28 million than not have him because we were only willing to give him 22 million. Which is very possibly the case. Money talks, and we talked. And we got star player who has tons of respect around the league in his prime.

[Sonny_D1]

If word would have come out we weren't willing to go an extra $5 million or weren't willing to add a 2075 pick, or include Thad Young in the deal, the same people bitching about the contract now would be bitching about how we didn't close the deal.

Truth is I haven't watched a single minute of a Bulls game (and NBA in general) in 5+ years. I may actually tune in next year. Maybe.

[Guru]

Did anyone see the John Hollinger piece about why DErozan was a terrible signing?

[Jcool0]

Player 1, age 31 season:
21.5ppg, 6.9reb, 7.1ast, 49.7% FG, 24.5% 3PT, 86.3 FT% on 8.0AT, 26.5 PER, .607 TS%, 106 DRTG (career)

Player 2, age 31 season:
21.6ppg, 4.2reb, 6.9ast, 49.5% FG, 25.7% 3PT, 88.0 FT% on 7.2 AT, 22.0 PER, 59.1 TS%, 110.6 DRTG (career)

Player 1, landed 4 years /186M 46M AAV
Player 2, landed 3 years / 85M 28M AAV

So, Player 1 (Jimmy Butler) offensive production for 60% of the price. Albeit with league average defensive rating. Just a thought, flame away...

I see where you're going with that obviously, but....

Jimmy's defense is a huge factor here. DDR is awful defensively.

Jimmy's also an alpha personality that can be an infection vector throughout your roster. For some teams, that's a negative as it can be combustible. For the right mix of players, that's an element that elevates your other pieces. Miami is the later. DDR isn't a negative by any means, just doesn't appear to be anywhere on Jimmy's level here, either.

Are those differences worth the salary difference? Depends on the team and situation. I still think DDR got overpaid a little, personally. But I also am aware it's likely a wash and it won't limit our roster building much in the grand scheme of things either.

jimmy has been living off his rep for awhile now.

[Guru]

On The Athletic, John Hollinger claims the DeRozan trade is "the biggest head-scratcher" because the Bulls overpaid to get him and overpaid him, since there was no real competition for him that could afford to pay him and the Spurs didn't want to keep him:

"Consider this: If they had paid half as much — $14 million a year — who was outbidding them? The Clippers and Lakers only had the taxpayer midlevel exception. The Knicks quickly burned through their cap space to lock in the six seed for the next three years. The only teams with the space to make a move here were Oklahoma City, which isn’t rebuilding around a 32-year-old, and DeRozan’s own team in San Antonio, which didn’t seem to be in that big a rush to bring him back."

Someone should point out to Hollinger that teams didn't need cap space to make a move here - hell, the Bulls didn't have any cap space, and they still managed to grossly overpay DeMar (according to Hollinger).

I put that in the chat. His central premise made no sense. Teams can create cap room.