The Trey Lance thread

[CrimsonCrew]

NFC is considered weak and wide open.

Unless the brain trust really doesn’t expect to contend, it would be a big burden to throw on Trey, even if he’s the future franchise QB.

I haven’t seen anyone say that, it’s weak. In fact, the NFC West is widely considered the best division in football. Tampa Bay is also the odds on favorite to win the Super Bowl, so I wouldn’t say it’s wide open either.

Agreed. The NFC probably lost one of its perennial contenders when Brees retired and Michael Thomas had surgery, but it looks like Rodgers is going to be back in GB, so they'll be a threat. TB is arguably the most complete team in the league. NFC West has four teams that could make a SB run without shocking anyone. The NFC East is still garbage, but if Fitz can put something together, Washington could actually make some noise.

[CrimsonCrew]

People know how I feel about Lance starting week 1 but I still hold my position that we need to see him in a couple of preseason games before going all in or not.

I'd be more inclined to say stick with Jimmy if Jimmy was more the Alex Smith type that would give you a clean, consistent, and efficient performance week in and week out but he's just not. He's good for at least one boneheaded INT or near INT a game and he just doesn't read defenses quickly or cleanly.

So if that's the case I'd rather take Lance who'll have bad throws and plays but despite that I don't think it's a stretch he'd have fewer turnovers than Jimmy.

It's just getting harder and harder to make a case for Jimmy as training camp wears on. Lance's running will be a boon to the running game, he's more willing and able to take deeper shots, and right now it's not looking like he's struggling with the mental aspect of the game either.

But I think the 9ers are secretly preparing Lance to be able to start week 1. It's too early for them to crown him but thinking about the fact he's getting the same amount of reps as Jimmy and more importantly he's getting chances to throw to the starters. Him playing behind the starting offensive line isn't really that important considering nobody can hit him anyways and playing against the 1st team defense would be a benefit but I don't think that's vital as well. He's not going to see our defense during the season so while it would be helpful to have guys make things harder for him the most important aspects for him are building timing and familiarity with his weapons, how he's executing the play, and how he's reading the defense regardless of the quality of players operating it.

Yeah, that's the decisive factor for me, too. I've never gotten the sense that Garoppolo is out there executing the offense exactly how Shanahan wants him to, and he doesn't read the field well. He makes a lot of mistakes, and doesn't have the physical tools to compensate. If we're going to have a mistake-prone player anyway, let's go with the guy who can more easily make up for them with the long ball and running threat.

[CrimsonCrew]

I was on board with Lance being able to sit, but from all of the camp reports, he seems ready to roll.

I find it interesting that Lance and Fields are currently lighting up training camp, but Lawrence, Wilson and Jones have been struggling so badly

Isn't Wilson still holding out? Haven't seen recent news on Jones, just that he looked great in OTAs.

His holdout was pretty short, he actually missed the first two practices if I’m remembering correctly and joined for the third. Per all reports he had a downright awful start to camp and has been up and down since then. He’s had a couple of nice deep passes to Moore though which shows some promise for them, but they’ve described camp as a learning experience.

Lawrence has been down right awful at camp per reports, throwing ints left and right.

Mac Jones has been Meh, and Albert Breer (I believe) reported that Cam has been by far the best QB in camp this far.

Hadn't really been following the other guys, so that's interesting to hear. I figured Lance would be pretty quick to pick up the offense, and that he'd put the work in. Again, my biggest concern has always been the accuracy, and that's something he's been working on and that Shanahan can mitigate to an extent.

As has been noted, he's playing against the second string, and our second-string CBs (hell, our first-string CBs outside of Verrett and Williams) are downright bad, but either you can make the reads and throws or you can't, and it seems like Lance is checking off the boxes he needs to for now.

[Pattersonca65]

Isn't Wilson still holding out? Haven't seen recent news on Jones, just that he looked great in OTAs.

His holdout was pretty short, he actually missed the first two practices if I’m remembering correctly and joined for the third. Per all reports he had a downright awful start to camp and has been up and down since then. He’s had a couple of nice deep passes to Moore though which shows some promise for them, but they’ve described camp as a learning experience.

Lawrence has been down right awful at camp per reports, throwing ints left and right.

Mac Jones has been Meh, and Albert Breer (I believe) reported that Cam has been by far the best QB in camp this far.

Hadn't really been following the other guys, so that's interesting to hear. I figured Lance would be pretty quick to pick up the offense, and that he'd put the work in. Again, my biggest concern has always been the accuracy, and that's something he's been working on and that Shanahan can mitigate to an extent.

As has been noted, he's playing against the second string, and our second-string CBs (hell, our first-string CBs outside of Verrett and Williams) are downright bad, but either you can make the reads and throws or you can't, and it seems like Lance is checking off the boxes he needs to for now.

If Shanahan decides to start Lance week one I will support it as I trust Shanahan to make the right choice. But I do find all the gushing over Lance right now and how he is going to blow up the NFL quite interesting. The other day someone emailed me some stories from Cleveland's training camp when DeShone Kizer was a rookie. Not saying Kizer is Lance or the 49ers are the Browns but the stories then are eerily similar to the stories about Lance. These are things that were said about Kizer. Kizer has been working hard in camp. Kizer looks polished in training camp. He has a great arm and can make all the throws. He is competing to start day one. Then there were stories about how great he played during two preseason games and he could be the starter day one. Players and coaches were gushing about him at camp and preseason. Kizer is on his third team now. Not saying Lance will end up that way but too many people are being way too premature with Lance based on training camp. This team wants to win a super bowl this year. Putting it on the back of a 20 year old rookie kid who has very limited college experience and hasn't played in over a year is a very tall order.

[Pattersonca65]

If Shanahan decides to start Lance week one than I support it as I still believe in Shanahan. The kid has great physical tools for sure and has great potential. Have to see what happens when bullets are really flying and defenses are getting after you and game planning. Lance is young, inexperienced even at the college level, and hasn't played in a year. He has alot to digest. Shanahan said this,

Yeah. I mean, I just think to look a lot better than the guy who’s been playing for a while and done everything in practice and in three preseason games where you’re not playing in all the games. And I think that would be pretty tough to do so I’m not trying to put that pressure on Trey. But I mean anybody who can pull stuff off, I mean, you’re going to see it that way. Jimmy has played too good, a football. He is too good of a player and Trey’s trying to learn everything right now and soak it all in. So that’s why I’d be very surprised if he was able to do that.”

Yeah, its obviously encouraging to hear the reports that Lance is performing well in the pre-pad portion of camp.

Still, barring injury or an epic meltdown from Jimmy, I gotta believe that the absolute earliest Lance gets the starting gig is Week 7 (coming out of the week 6 bye.) This team has legit super bowl aspirations, and Lance is just far too inexperienced and unexposed to top competition. Plus he has played in exactly 1 live game in the past 20 months.

You also need to carefully consider how to do right by the kid. Throwing him to the wolves on Day 1 could be detrimental to his psyche and development.

Yes. The way I see it,. I think if Lance starts it will be from day one though unless something goes wrong. Either Jimmy G gets hurt during the season or the team or Jimmy is struggling. If the 49ers are leading the division midway and have the number one seed and Jimmy is at playing well enough I can't imagine Shanahan pulling Jimmy G for Lance midseason.

[CrimsonCrew]

I agree that people are going a little over-the-top with Lance, but he's a guy who checked just about every box except accuracy. Athletic, strong arm, apparently incredible worker and leader. Seems to read the field well, had a lot of responsibility.

Having said that, I've really enjoyed listening to Haberman and Middlekauff over this offseason, and part of that is because I feel like they're pretty even-keeled and fair critics of the talent. And they are positively gushing over Lance after attending camp yesterday - admittedly in what was Lance's best day.

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[CrimsonCrew]

NFC is considered weak and wide open.

Unless the brain trust really doesn’t expect to contend, it would be a big burden to throw on Trey, even if he’s the future franchise QB.

I haven’t seen anyone say that, it’s weak. In fact, the NFC West is widely considered the best division in football. Tampa Bay is also the odds on favorite to win the Super Bowl, so I wouldn’t say it’s wide open either.

Agreed. The NFC probably lost one of its perennial contenders when Brees retired and Michael Thomas had surgery, but it looks like Rodgers is going to be back in GB, so they'll be a threat. TB is arguably the most complete team in the league. NFC West has four teams that could make a SB run without shocking anyone. The NFC East is still garbage, but if Fitz can put something together, Washington could actually make some noise.

Just realized I left out the Cowboys. Ha! It's hard to have tremendous faith in them because, you know, it's the Cowboys, but they could have the best offense in football if their key guys stay healthy.

[Dodub]

These guys are legitimately excited about it. National media is saying Mahomes 2.0. I really hope this all translates to Sunday’s

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[CrimsonCrew]

Another strong day from Lance. Seven of eight, only incompletion was an underthrown deep ball to Kittle that should have been PI (another reason we need to throw more of these; even when they aren't caught, they're the types of throws most likely to result in PI). Two 40+ yard completions to TEs, multiple TDs, rushing TD. He's doing everything right for now.

[Dodub]

Another strong day from Lance. Seven of eight, only incompletion was an underthrown deep ball to Kittle that should have been PI (another reason we need to throw more of these; even when they aren't caught, they're the types of throws most likely to result in PI). Two 40+ yard completions to TEs, multiple TDs, rushing TD. He's doing everything right for now.

Apparently he was dropping dimes into the corner of the end zone over defenders. These are next level throws that he’s making.

The momentum is spinning out of control right now, the National media has now started running with the story.

[Jikkle]

The few things that excite me about Lance right now are first off is his consistency. You expect rookie QBs and rookies in general to have good days, bad days, and just overall be very up and down throughout camp. So far with Lance aside from a mediocre Monday he's been good or great throughout camp and hasn't really had a day you would say that's been bad.

That leads me to the second thing and it seems like he's steadily improving as Tuesday and Wednesday practices were by far his best so far. Also seems like his accuracy is becoming less and less of an issue. He's had bad throws which every QB has but I haven't heard people comment that he's been high on throws or off target even on his completions. I don't imagine he's completely put his accuracy issues behind him but sounds like it's becoming less and less of one.

The reaction of the local beat writers is another reason I'm hyped. We know a guy like Cohn is pretty opinionated but most the local 9ers beat writers are pretty conservative with their opinions and aren't ones to really hype or even slam a guy and they just tend offer some comments to what they see. So when you have a guy like Maiocco who's the ultimate just the facts kind of guy and whose covered and seen the 9ers a lot of years gushing over you than there is something to that.

At this point in time which is still very early it's looking like Lance is on pace to start week 1. Still need to see him in preseason but considering Shanahan keeps giving Lance Kittle, Aiyuk, and Deebo to throw to even though it's 2nd team offense it's clear that he's preparing for it to at least be a possibility. They don't want to tank Jimmy G's trade value and I imagine they don't want to crown Lance before he's even had a preseason game either.

[CrimsonCrew]

I was listening to 95.7 on the drive home, and Ray Ratto was ranting about how the reports on Lance are completely meaningless, while Damon Bruce and Matt Kolsky disagreed (Bruce pretty vehemently). There was a similar discussion among hosts earlier in the day.

Look, I get that this is just training camp, and not even that far into it. And there is a very real danger that a successful performance against defenders who won't be in the league at all in three weeks is skewing expectations in a potentially harmful way when Lance almost certainly does take some lumps.

That said, I also think it's silly to say that Lance's success is meaningless. Of course there's meaning to it. It's very likely the meaning is being overblown, but players - especially young players - can absolutely show things in camp. Is Lance demonstrating that he can make all the throws consistently? Is he showing a grasp of the offense? Is the ball going to the right spot? Is he making poor decisions, or showing a lack of vision? Is he repeating mistakes? What is the quality of his completions, if he's completing a high volume? Are they all check-downs? Is he throwing lower percentage balls, and succeeding on those?

I am very encouraged by the reports, even though I still think some folks are getting carried away. Lance appears to be checking all the boxes. He's showing poise, maturity, and leadership that are rare in a kid his age, especially when considering his level of experience. He has seemingly improved on his major weakness coming out. He's proving effective at running the offense as it should be run - at least so far as we can tell without knowing the play calls, progressions, etc. That doesn't mean he's going to start week one, it doesn't mean he's going to flawlessly take over the starting job and suffer no setbacks. It certainly doesn't mean he's headed to the HOF. It means that right now, he appears to be doing everything he needs to be doing, and is giving the team some reason to be optimistic going forward. And I for one will absolutely take that for what it is and get excited to watch him develop.

[CrimsonCrew]

The few things that excite me about Lance right now are first off is his consistency. You expect rookie QBs and rookies in general to have good days, bad days, and just overall be very up and down throughout camp. So far with Lance aside from a mediocre Monday he's been good or great throughout camp and hasn't really had a day you would say that's been bad.

That leads me to the second thing and it seems like he's steadily improving as Tuesday and Wednesday practices were by far his best so far. Also seems like his accuracy is becoming less and less of an issue. He's had bad throws which every QB has but I haven't heard people comment that he's been high on throws or off target even on his completions. I don't imagine he's completely put his accuracy issues behind him but sounds like it's becoming less and less of one.

The reaction of the local beat writers is another reason I'm hyped. We know a guy like Cohn is pretty opinionated but most the local 9ers beat writers are pretty conservative with their opinions and aren't ones to really hype or even slam a guy and they just tend offer some comments to what they see. So when you have a guy like Maiocco who's the ultimate just the facts kind of guy and whose covered and seen the 9ers a lot of years gushing over you than there is something to that.

At this point in time which is still very early it's looking like Lance is on pace to start week 1. Still need to see him in preseason but considering Shanahan keeps giving Lance Kittle, Aiyuk, and Deebo to throw to even though it's 2nd team offense it's clear that he's preparing for it to at least be a possibility. They don't want to tank Jimmy G's trade value and I imagine they don't want to crown Lance before he's even had a preseason game either.

He's apparently been great the past two practices, but there were reports that his first throw of the day tended to be inaccurate prior to these past two days, and on some of those he was missing high (I recall one in particular to Aiyuk, based on reports). Not a major issue, but something that he will no doubt need to continue working on.

[Pattersonca65]

The few things that excite me about Lance right now are first off is his consistency. You expect rookie QBs and rookies in general to have good days, bad days, and just overall be very up and down throughout camp. So far with Lance aside from a mediocre Monday he's been good or great throughout camp and hasn't really had a day you would say that's been bad.

That leads me to the second thing and it seems like he's steadily improving as Tuesday and Wednesday practices were by far his best so far. Also seems like his accuracy is becoming less and less of an issue. He's had bad throws which every QB has but I haven't heard people comment that he's been high on throws or off target even on his completions. I don't imagine he's completely put his accuracy issues behind him but sounds like it's becoming less and less of one.

The reaction of the local beat writers is another reason I'm hyped. We know a guy like Cohn is pretty opinionated but most the local 9ers beat writers are pretty conservative with their opinions and aren't ones to really hype or even slam a guy and they just tend offer some comments to what they see. So when you have a guy like Maiocco who's the ultimate just the facts kind of guy and whose covered and seen the 9ers a lot of years gushing over you than there is something to that.

At this point in time which is still very early it's looking like Lance is on pace to start week 1. Still need to see him in preseason but considering Shanahan keeps giving Lance Kittle, Aiyuk, and Deebo to throw to even though it's 2nd team offense it's clear that he's preparing for it to at least be a possibility. They don't want to tank Jimmy G's trade value and I imagine they don't want to crown Lance before he's even had a preseason game either.

He's apparently been great the past two practices, but there were reports that his first throw of the day tended to be inaccurate prior to these past two days, and on some of those he was missing high (I recall one in particular to Aiyuk, based on reports). Not a major issue, but something that he will no doubt need to continue working on.

I also saw a report that he tended to lock onto his first read and wasn't seeing all the receivers. This would not surprise me because of his lack of experience. This was also one of his weaknesses on scouting reports. A key will be how handles the pass rush in a real game. I look forward to seeing him play in his first game.

[Jikkle]

Sounds like Lance had a mediocre practice today which is fine and I expected a dip as it would've been hard to maintain what he did on Tuesday and Wednesday.

Some reports say Jimmy was better some say Trey was still better and I know Barrows was saying Lance was getting pressure up the middle on his last 4 throws which were incompletions.

Seems like some people (not saying anyone on this board but some fans in general) feel he has to play out of this world to get the starting job but all he has to do is be a better option than Jimmy. I don't think he's going to be MVP or OROY if he does start week 1 and even best case scenario he probably wouldn't be in the conversation of being a top 5 QB until year 3 but as of right now I'm guessing he's going to be a better option than Jimmy.

One of the biggest things that sticks out to me and is pretty consistent is he simply hits 30+ yards way more than Jimmy. In fact I think Jimmy's longest completion is 25 yards and it seems like when he tries to throw deeper the pass is broken up or off target. So that's one huge element that Lance brings that Jimmy doesn't.

With Lance's ability to at the very least be a big enough threat to hit a deep pass that defenses will have to respect it and obviously his ability to run the ball he'd really open up the running game which is one of the biggest reasons I still think he starts week 1 because it also sounds like he can make the same short and intermediate throws Jimmy can as well.

Because regardless of who starts between Jimmy and Lance it's clear based on what they did this offseason Shanahan is going to run the ball and run it a lot and I expect 2019 levels of running the ball so having Lance back there will really open the running game up.

And considering Shanahan now is say Lance will play in 2021 just situationally they are inching closer to him just flat out being the starter in 2021. I mean if he's that immensely talented you want to get him on the field somehow than why not just have him on the field all the time and make him the starter.

[Bingo_AlphaMan]

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[Bingo_AlphaMan]

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[Pattersonca65]

Shanahan threw a little cold water on Lance starting day one. Still could happen. My only concern with Shanahan's comments are further down the article where he talks about possibly playing a QB based on matchups. If he means have rotational QB from week to week that is troubling. Maybe he could make it work but Bill Walsh tried going that route with Montana and Young and it did not work out. Walsh had to recommit to Montana as starter. It would be better for Shanahan to name a starter when the season starts and stick with that player unless and until things go south for the player.

https://www.ninersnation.com/2021/8/9/22616848/49ers-despite-taking-huge-strides-since-otas-itll-be-tough-for-lance-to-start-week-1

[GS Warriors 1]

I've seen people bring up Griffin III a lot lately, but this is a completely different situation. Griffin was basically forced upon The Shanahan's by Dan Snyder and he had to play right away. They looked at what he did at Baylor and incorporated very limited Shanahan stuff on his plate. Lance is Kyle's guy. He's going to design plays specifically for Lance, but Kyle wants Lance to learn the full scope of his playbook before he can become the full-time starter, which I think happens next year. I'm sure if some injury happened to Jimmy G, Kyle could somehow make it work with Lance at the helm. If the team is playing well and Jimmy G is healthy, I don't see him getting benched.

[CrimsonCrew]

Sounds like Lance had a mediocre practice today which is fine and I expected a dip as it would've been hard to maintain what he did on Tuesday and Wednesday.

Some reports say Jimmy was better some say Trey was still better and I know Barrows was saying Lance was getting pressure up the middle on his last 4 throws which were incompletions.

Seems like some people (not saying anyone on this board but some fans in general) feel he has to play out of this world to get the starting job but all he has to do is be a better option than Jimmy. I don't think he's going to be MVP or OROY if he does start week 1 and even best case scenario he probably wouldn't be in the conversation of being a top 5 QB until year 3 but as of right now I'm guessing he's going to be a better option than Jimmy.

One of the biggest things that sticks out to me and is pretty consistent is he simply hits 30+ yards way more than Jimmy. In fact I think Jimmy's longest completion is 25 yards and it seems like when he tries to throw deeper the pass is broken up or off target. So that's one huge element that Lance brings that Jimmy doesn't.

With Lance's ability to at the very least be a big enough threat to hit a deep pass that defenses will have to respect it and obviously his ability to run the ball he'd really open up the running game which is one of the biggest reasons I still think he starts week 1 because it also sounds like he can make the same short and intermediate throws Jimmy can as well.

Because regardless of who starts between Jimmy and Lance it's clear based on what they did this offseason Shanahan is going to run the ball and run it a lot and I expect 2019 levels of running the ball so having Lance back there will really open the running game up.

And considering Shanahan now is say Lance will play in 2021 just situationally they are inching closer to him just flat out being the starter in 2021. I mean if he's that immensely talented you want to get him on the field somehow than why not just have him on the field all the time and make him the starter.

I am far from a Garoppolo guy, but even I don't agree with this. I think Lance has to be markedly better than Garoppolo to start over him. He doesn't have to be perfect (Jimmy sure isn't), but at the end of the day, the coaching staff has seen Garoppolo perform in live action. They've seen him make bad plays, but they've also seen him shake off those bad plays to bring the team back and win games. I think the term is overused, but Garoppolo is a winner. He doesn't wow you, but more often than not, he finds a way to get it done. That counts for a lot in the NFL, and Shanahan isn't a very aggressive coach. In fact, he's really quite conservative in terms of how he manages the game. For that reason - and, frankly, in this case I agree with it - until Lance shows that he is the better player on a consistent basis, Garoppolo will and probably should start over him.