Official: DeRozan! Player of the Week p69

[MrSparkle]

Did anyone see the John Hollinger piece about why DErozan was a terrible signing?

Yeah , I think it's stupid.

The alternative was distributing that money on lesser talented guys, or just saving Reinsdorf's coin on a team with one less established starter.

For god's sake, we flipped Thad and Aminu cap-space for him. Thad had a great year when he came off the bench for a 20 mpg spark, but he was exposed after the deadline, especially when we needed him to take on a more defensive/complimentary role. And Aminu is an unknown, but at the moment looks like somebody with too many injuries to contribute to the NBA at this point.

There is nobody I would have rather signed on the market with the $25m those two occupied. I'm not sure I'd even bother with the Kawhi ACL sweepstakes (though you'd need to clear another $15m).

Hollinger's big point about how we overpaid in a dead market is also irrelevant to me. DeRozan would've taken the Spurs' bird right offer if his market was nearing $20m. A few million on a team already over the cap is simply building good-will towards future star FA/trade pursuits, which is something sorely missing from the previous regime, where they made it very obvious they were more willing to offer you a $5m discount and turn you away than just ponying up the Arci/Kornet cash (uh $7m annually deadweights) for the star you're recruiting.

We obviously dodged a bullet with Carmelo, but I still find it funny that the Bulls refused to get the deal with the Knicks to pay him the most money possible, to pull him away. He really wanted to join the Bulls, and it was the big difference in dollar that sealed the deal, not a small amount.

Now if DeRozan's market value dropped to $14m... Lol, 30 teams would be dialing the Spurs to send whatever the hell asset they want to lock that up in a S&T. Ridiculous.

[superdave]

Hollinger with the salary cap brain fart. Analytics godfather, middling FO guy (see Grizzlies)

[Guru]

There will not be enough basketballs for this team next season.

It will be extremely difficult to play Zach, Vuc, DeRozan and Lonzo at the same time. People like to think everybody's gonna hold hands and sing Kumbaya, but they forget how completely Zach and Vuc dominated the offense at the end of last season.

Some people are not gonna be happy once the honeymoon period is over.

Given that 2 of the teams best players are over 30, that's going to be quite soon. The Bulls need to land a superstar soon to win, but they have no assets left do so.

They might have a superstar on the roster. Development is their best way to get one for 2021

[DuckIII]

Whether we overpaid Derozan or not is irrelevant to whether or not it was a good signing. AK chose an all in path when he traded for Vuc, and god damnit he followed up by actually going all in, bless his heart.

We’re over the cap. Being a little more over the cap is irrelevant unless we ignore meaningful talent upgrades to save money.

[Red8911]

I like the optimism for sure and it is possible this team does click and Is a good team. They could pull a 2005 White Sox and have team where every player has a career year all in the same year too. I know we are a much better team than we were talent wise. I just am not sure how that is going to workout. It’s a better problem to have than the previous of just to options of sucking bad enough to get a good draft pick or not sucking enough to get a good draft pick.

I actually feel that we will have a bad matchup vs the Bucks. They are big and athletic (with all the obvious differences, they remind me a bit of the 90s Bulls). But I agree with the original poster: the Nets are the only clear favorite out of the east. The Heat and the Bucks look better, we need to see how the 76ers will play next season and if Atlanta stays the same or if they actually do it like the Suns, taking the motivation of last year's run to actually improve. And we need to see the Celtics, how will they respond after last season.

I feel that we are going to 4th to 6th place with the current team and we can aim to a conference semi-finals appearance (depending on who we get in the first round and everything going quite well - No injuries, good chemistry between players, all players keeping up the level or even improving - mainly the young guys... PW, Lavine, Lonzo... even Lauri and Coby if they stay). For me that's the expected and then... we will be in a position where we can be lucky: injuries happen... good matchups happen... Even big jumps in the quality of some players happen... as said before, imagine Lavine having an MVP year? I doubt that he will be that much better but you never know.

(I even doubt that we will have the blessing of two seasons in a row with these teams of friends failing big time)

Even for the future, good performances might increase the value of players and at worst case scenario we will be able to be active in the market and keep fighting to be in this position.

I don't think we did as well as the Lakers this off-season... but the change in the mood here completely justifies the moves and hopefully will make Lavine commit to the team. We need to be in the playoffs with a player like him even if we are not true contenders in paper. The worst it can happen? The same as always: not winning a title. But at least we will be in the position of doing something.

this makes zero sense. The "favourites" out the East are Milwaukee & Atlanta. Then there's everyone else, and it's as simple as that

No the Nets have 3 super stars and they are the clear favorites in the East. If Irving and Harden don’t get hurt they would have swept the bucks. Teams like Hawks,Bucks,Sixers are top teams too but the bulls will also get into the mix with them.East is as strong and competitive as its ever been. Lebrons teams wouldn’t scroll past the East like he used to that’s for sure.

[logical_art]

Whether we overpaid Derozan or not is irrelevant to whether or not it was a good signing. AK chose an all in path when he traded for Vuc, and god damnit he followed up by actually going all in, bless his heart.

We’re over the cap. Being a little more over the cap is irrelevant unless we ignore meaningful talent upgrades to save money.

Not entirely true. A cheaper contract is easier to move than a more expensive one.

[MrSparkle]

Whether we overpaid Derozan or not is irrelevant to whether or not it was a good signing. AK chose an all in path when he traded for Vuc, and god damnit he followed up by actually going all in, bless his heart.

We’re over the cap. Being a little more over the cap is irrelevant unless we ignore meaningful talent upgrades to save money.

Not entirely true. A cheaper contract is easier to move than a more expensive one.

Moving a $27m DeRozan with only 3y guaranteed is not going to be difficult unless his game completely falls off a cliff, into buyout territory. I mean, hey, it happens - Kemba had to be dumped and bought out. But if we're gonna be that irrationally pessimistic that any 32yo former star is on the verge of becoming a deadweight, then I guess give CP3, Lowry and post-Warriors Durant the vet. min. contract. Otherwise, I don't think a $5-8m difference in salary will make DeRozan that much more or less tradeable. Pau Gasol was making $6m and made two all-star games, and the best deadline offer for him was Koufos and some garbage protected pick. When it comes down to deadline aging star trades, either the player can help a contender win a ring or not. It was decided that Pau's defense was basically a liability, and nobody wanted to shell out an asset for that, despite the super bargain salary.

[SaNdMiRkS]

I actually feel that we will have a bad matchup vs the Bucks. They are big and athletic (with all the obvious differences, they remind me a bit of the 90s Bulls). But I agree with the original poster: the Nets are the only clear favorite out of the east. The Heat and the Bucks look better, we need to see how the 76ers will play next season and if Atlanta stays the same or if they actually do it like the Suns, taking the motivation of last year's run to actually improve. And we need to see the Celtics, how will they respond after last season.

I feel that we are going to 4th to 6th place with the current team and we can aim to a conference semi-finals appearance (depending on who we get in the first round and everything going quite well - No injuries, good chemistry between players, all players keeping up the level or even improving - mainly the young guys... PW, Lavine, Lonzo... even Lauri and Coby if they stay). For me that's the expected and then... we will be in a position where we can be lucky: injuries happen... good matchups happen... Even big jumps in the quality of some players happen... as said before, imagine Lavine having an MVP year? I doubt that he will be that much better but you never know.

(I even doubt that we will have the blessing of two seasons in a row with these teams of friends failing big time)

Even for the future, good performances might increase the value of players and at worst case scenario we will be able to be active in the market and keep fighting to be in this position.

I don't think we did as well as the Lakers this off-season... but the change in the mood here completely justifies the moves and hopefully will make Lavine commit to the team. We need to be in the playoffs with a player like him even if we are not true contenders in paper. The worst it can happen? The same as always: not winning a title. But at least we will be in the position of doing something.

this makes zero sense. The "favourites" out the East are Milwaukee & Atlanta. Then there's everyone else, and it's as simple as that

No the Nets have 3 super stars and they are the clear favorites in the East. If Irving and Harden don’t get hurt they would have swept the bucks. Teams like Hawks,Bucks,Sixers are top teams too but the bulls will also get into the mix with them.East is as strong and competitive as its ever been. Lebrons teams wouldn’t scroll past the East like he used to that’s for sure.

Do you work for the nets franchise or something? These takes are comically strange. The Nets got bounced in the ECSF this past season, they're in the second tier with Philly, behind Milwaukee (the best team in the NBA) & Atlanta (the next big thing out East)

[Red8911]

Someone mentioned this yesterday but was also listening to ESPN radio and Nick Friedel pops up . This Fkn guy is suuuch a hater.I don’t think he has ever said one good thing about the bulls. He was saying that all this noise/signing is for nothing. While the GSW ( who re reports for)made the right move which was Otto Porter LOL WHAT?

Fk that guy,I’m glad he’s done reporting for the bulls and don’t get how he got the job to begin with.

[barn34]

this makes zero sense. The "favourites" out the East are Milwaukee & Atlanta. Then there's everyone else, and it's as simple as that

No the Nets have 3 super stars and they are the clear favorites in the East. If Irving and Harden don’t get hurt they would have swept the bucks. Teams like Hawks,Bucks,Sixers are top teams too but the bulls will also get into the mix with them.East is as strong and competitive as its ever been. Lebrons teams wouldn’t scroll past the East like he used to that’s for sure.

Do you work for the nets franchise or something? These takes are comically strange. The Nets got bounced in the ECSF this past season, they're in the second tier with Philly, behind Milwaukee (the best team in the NBA) & Atlanta (the next big thing out East)

you can't be serious, right? Brooklyn is, hands down, the favorites to win the chip this season. They're the scariest team in the entire league, and they've actually managed to build a decent bench this week, as well.

[MrSparkle]

Someone mentioned this yesterday but was also listening to ESPN radio and Nick Friedel pops up . This Fkn guy is suuuch a hater.I don’t think he has ever said one good thing about the bulls. He was saying that all this noise/signing is for nothing. While the GSW ( who re reports for)made the right move which was Otto Porter LOL WHAT?

Fk that guy,I’m glad he’s done reporting for the bulls and don’t get how he got the job to begin with.

I think Otto on the min. is a great pickup. Especially to GSW.

Still think Otto is a great role-player going through some stuff. If that fella gets himself healthy and in-shape, and cuts out the sparkling wine party romps, he's gonna be GS's R-rated version of a Livingston come-back story.

But Nick F. is being extra salty for no reason. Nobody's hanging any Bulls championship banners. The guy should be thrilled that we went from Felicio, Kornet and Dunn to this.

[superdave]

Someone mentioned this yesterday but was also listening to ESPN radio and Nick Friedel pops up . This Fkn guy is suuuch a hater.I don’t think he has ever said one good thing about the bulls. He was saying that all this noise/signing is for nothing. While the GSW ( who re reports for)made the right move which was Otto Porter LOL WHAT?

Fk that guy,I’m glad he’s done reporting for the bulls and don’t get how he got the job to begin with.

Bulls hate is real. Not surprised by Friedell and even Hollinger. Hollinger probably has scars from defending drafting Beasley #1 (oh that once-in-a-lifetime college PER) over D Rose all those years ago. Bulls fans, including me, let him have it through the years…

[gobullschi]

Why is Hollinger singling out DeRozan?

Lowry got a 3 - year $90M contract at nearly 36 years old and averaged:
17.2PPG, 5.4RPG, & 7.3APG
PER: 16.5
WS: 4.1

DeRozan signs a cheaper contract, while being 4 years younger and averaged:
21.6PPG, 4.2RPG, & 6.9APG
PER: 22
WS: 7.4

[Ice Man]

I am not worried about overpaying for DeRozan. I am worried that whatever his salary is, he is not a very good player.

In 2021, the Spurs were much better when he was off the court. In 2020, the Spurs were much better when he was off the court. In 2019, the Spurs were much better when he was off the court. I call that a trend.

Not many Raptors fans were sorry to see Demar go, and not many Spurs fans will be, either. I predict the same for Chicago Bulls fans, in a couple of years.

Look, I don't want to be the party's pooper. I do think it made sense to sign Lonzo, although I am not the world's biggest Lonzo fan. I liked the Vuce trade. It's not as if I sit here and say about every FO move, "Oh that was bad." But ... I am concened bout this deal.

[Red8911]

this makes zero sense. The "favourites" out the East are Milwaukee & Atlanta. Then there's everyone else, and it's as simple as that

No the Nets have 3 super stars and they are the clear favorites in the East. If Irving and Harden don’t get hurt they would have swept the bucks. Teams like Hawks,Bucks,Sixers are top teams too but the bulls will also get into the mix with them.East is as strong and competitive as its ever been. Lebrons teams wouldn’t scroll past the East like he used to that’s for sure.

Do you work for the nets franchise or something? These takes are comically strange. The Nets got bounced in the ECSF this past season, they're in the second tier with Philly, behind Milwaukee (the best team in the NBA) & Atlanta (the next big thing out East)

Where they got bounced really doesn’t matter anymore. Do you think Phoenix beats the Lakers with AD ? Do you think Phoenix beats the Clippers with Kawhi? Nets were up 2-0 with Irving over the bucks, then got hurt along with Harden being 10% healthy and caused them to lose.

Nets roster wise are the favorites. Good luck beating them if all of them are healthy. I’m no Nets fan but it’s the truth.

[MrSparkle]

I am not worried about overpaying for DeRozan. I am worried that whatever his salary is, he is not a very good player.

In 2021, the Spurs were much better when he was off the court. In 2020, the Spurs were much better when he was off the court. In 2019, the Spurs were much better when he was off the court. I call that a trend.

Not many Raptors fans were sorry to see Demar go, and not many Spurs fans will be, either. I predict the same for Chicago Bulls fans, in a couple of years.

Look, I don't want to be the party's pooper. I do think it made sense to sign Lonzo, although I am not the world's biggest Lonzo fan. I liked the Vuce trade. It's not as if I sit here and say about every FO move, "Oh that was bad." But ... I am concened bout this deal.

Fair points. But I really think (excited) people are being reasonable here. Nobody's proclaiming a chip. Best-case scenario a deep contending run with some injury luck, like ATL and PHX? Sure. But AFAIC the Bucks, Heat, Hawks and maybe the Sixers are better teams. However, I can also see paths to beating them... which is the whole fun of putting out the best roster you can possibly assemble. We don't have to ink our 6-11 seed fate this year before the season starts. Last year's squad had a ceiling of winning 2 games in the 2nd round if Pat and Coby irrationally became fringe star talents. This year, they get to be x-factors, not our big hopes.

Evaluation of DeRozan gets very tricky. I'm fully expecting a drop in production and the defense to be a problem, but like with Pau Gasol (and Vuc, and Wade to a lesser extent), I'm always a bit weary of Bulls fans trashing all-star offensive players with defensive warts. If the offensive production is uniquely good, then it is worth building a defensive scheme to mask. The problem happens when you are building a scheme for a poor offensive production (Lauri, Niko, Jabari, pre-2021 Zach on an island).

But the defense is going to be a big problem. From that angle, I'm glad Caruso and some of these bench guys are gonna be around.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

I am not worried about overpaying for DeRozan. I am worried that whatever his salary is, he is not a very good player.

In 2021, the Spurs were much better when he was off the court. In 2020, the Spurs were much better when he was off the court. In 2019, the Spurs were much better when he was off the court. I call that a trend.

Not many Raptors fans were sorry to see Demar go, and not many Spurs fans will be, either. I predict the same for Chicago Bulls fans, in a couple of years.

Look, I don't want to be the party's pooper. I do think it made sense to sign Lonzo, although I am not the world's biggest Lonzo fan. I liked the Vuce trade. It's not as if I sit here and say about every FO move, "Oh that was bad." But ... I am concened bout this deal.

Who would you have preferred? Who is starting at the 3 spot (or 4 spot if you like Pat at the 3) in your ideal Bulls team?

The market wasn't example blooming with options.

[Ice Man]

Who would you have preferred? Who is starting at the 3 spot (or 4 spot if you like Pat at the 3)?

Fair questions. After the Vuce trade, the Bulls don't have the picks to just keep getting kids and hoping, plus that's a bad strategy anyway. I am glad to see the FO not settling for being a perennial tanker. So in that sense I do approve of the move, and I also acknowledge that there weren't obvious other options.

Thus, I didn't write "bad FO" or "bad deal." I don't beleive that the move was a headscratcher. I understand the mindset. But ... I am worried.

[D_GoLow]

[youtube] https://youtu.be/zbJdHck0jcM/youtube]
This guy makes some great points and he also looks like a lighter skinned Joakin Noah.

[DuckIII]

Whether we overpaid Derozan or not is irrelevant to whether or not it was a good signing. AK chose an all in path when he traded for Vuc, and god damnit he followed up by actually going all in, bless his heart.

We’re over the cap. Being a little more over the cap is irrelevant unless we ignore meaningful talent upgrades to save money.

Not entirely true. A cheaper contract is easier to move than a more expensive one.

Which is not significant enough of a reason to not sign him. It’s a three year deal. Two years of that deal align with Vuc’s deal, and in the 3rd year he’s a valuable expiring contract.

In a vacuum it’s an overpay. It the actual scenario in which it happened, it’s not.