How The Magic Can Put Jalen Suggs In A Position To Thrive From Day One (Dime)

[Knightro]

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"Suggs is unlikely to be an offensive hub. There are some pretty compelling avenues toward a high-end outcome offensively for him, it just demands creativity that ascends above a flood of pick-and-rolls accompanied by shooting and decision-making development."

https://uproxx.com/dimemag/jalen-suggs-orlando-magic-roster-fit-analysis-video/ (free)

VERY interesting article that isn't all sunshine and roses, but is still rather optimistic.

[Bensational]

Nice article, good read. I liked these two observations:

A scheme with three ball-handlers, though, none of whom were premier half-court initiators, regularly punctured the defense. Gonzaga parlayed horizontal movement of ball and player and decoy motion on weak-side into fruitful hand-offs and side pick-and-rolls. The Xs-and-Os helped forge advantages rather than personnel outright. The Magic will need that wrinkle in order to maximize their offense. It’s particularly relevant for Suggs as a half-court passer.

As the 2020-21 collegiate season wore on, he grew increasingly comfortable operating in the midrange, lofting in floaters or wielding space-creating craft for short pull-ups and open rim finishes. According to Bart Torvik, he shot 44 percent (22-for-50) on two-pointers away from the rim and only 4.5 percent of those were assisted. It’s still early in his development, but you can see the self-creation potential in Suggs’ game.

On the first note, it should be a strength in having multiple guys who can make a pass, we just need them all on the same page so people can be there to fill lanes and receive them. The way this article ultimately paints the picture, we have a backcourt of Jamal Murray type guards and no Jokic to unite them, and not even a well practiced team and system like the Zags had as a framework to hold on to. I don’t disagree, but I perhaps have more hope for their playmaking potential.

On the 2nd quote, I like hearing that and the highlight clips in the article are nice to watch too. Feels a bit duplicative of something Fultz was showing promise in, but both need to learn to extend beyond the perimeter anyway. What I liked about the shots Suggs was finding in the clips was the poise with which he found them. He looked like a Chris Paul, playing in a game that’s too slow for him. Those are the flashes that give me hope he can become a bigger threat than advertised in this article. That said, it feels like a very honest and neutral take on Suggs. Very good read.

[Xatticus]

Yeah. I don't know. There is a lot of crap in here that is entirely irrelevant. I keep hearing about his creation issues due to his limited handle, but I saw this as a positive when I looked at his film. He doesn't idle on ball. He doesn't pound the ball. He just makes plays. He finds the seam and goes. That's what I love about his game.

I also don't know why people feel like it is an issue when someone doesn't create without the aid of screens. Are there occasions when screens aren't available? You can screen in literally every half-court set. Some of the best offensive players in the history of the game feasted in the pick-and-roll for the entirety of their careers.

And why do I keep hearing that his lack of explosion hinders his ability to attack off the dribble? Is he an inferior athlete to Paul, Lillard, Russell, Curry, Conley, Booker, Young, Walker, McCollum, etc... ?

There is just so much irrelevant crap in scouting these days. Look around the NBA... how effective is the archetype of the ball-dominant lead guard around the league? Allen Iverson wasn't really all that good. It's as if the purpose of scouting is to ideate precisely why someone won't score 35 points a night instead of identifying what they do that provides actual value on a basketball court.

[cwas2882]

If the answer isn't "sign more centers," I don't want to hear the question

[Skin]

The guy was too wordy and artsy in his write up. Made the article seem like a project assignment for school that he needed to be graded on. Perhaps he's a guy trying too hard to secure a job.

As much as our Magic players get knocked for their shooting, we have assembled a DAMN GOOD defensive team, at least on paper. Suggs and Wagner were 2 of the scrappiest defenders in the draft. Fultz has size and physicality to his game. RJ is quick and bouncy. Chuma plays fundamental D and we have rim protection and length between Isaac, Carter and Bamba. We are going to scrape for steals, rebound and block balls to create fast breaks. Mosley wants to play simple and fast. Our team is young and we are going to run. The writer's knock on Suggs' handle and athleticism are sort of valid, but overstated. Suggs plays with control.

I think the best position to put Suggs in for him to thrive is by playing him at SG. I like him more as a secondary passer, and Fultz also needs to be put in the best position to succeed and for him that is at PG. He has an elite handle. Suggs can't touch him. Fultz prides himself on being a PG and his passing excels on the break. Folks get irritated with his propensity to have tunnel vision at times in half court sets, but I think Mosley is also going to incorporate more passing and ball movement than we saw from Cliff. This will benefit everyone. Keeping Suggs at one position and not asking him to do too much is my preference for what I'd like to see... at least for now.

[PrimeThyme]

I've gone back and watched most of Gonzaga's major games last year, && I actually thought he was underutilized as a primary playmaker/shot creator.

Timme was the hub of their offense, && Suggs was asked to defer a vast majority of the time to the upperclassman guards (Ayaji, Kispert, Nembhard) in Mark Fews established system. Suggs is one of the few all-word recruits that would have excelled in a setting like that too because he is just such a team player.

When the ball was in his hands though, especially in late-game situations when things often had to be improvised && outside the confines of Few's offense, he made special things happen. Especially in comparison to the other players on the roster.

I don't really agree at all with the assertion that he is a secondary creator like the other guards on this roster. I think he has high-end upside as a shot creator/playmaker, && have to agree that a large portion of this article felt wordy, && quite honestly pretty irrelevant. We'll see who ends up being right though.

[tiderulz]

along with a few people, i dont view Suggs as a "flawed initiator". i dont view him as a 15 apg player. but then, there were only 2 players last year in double digit assists. I dont see any reason why Suggs couldnt be in the 6-7 apg range. as for his handle, he'll be a rookie, focusing solely on basketball, i dont see any worry that he cant tighten it up.

just dont agree with the premise of the article i guess.

[Horcy]

along with a few people, i dont view Suggs as a "flawed initiator". i dont view him as a 15 apg player. but then, there were only 2 players last year in double digit assists. I dont see any reason why Suggs couldnt be in the 6-7 apg range. as for his handle, he'll be a rookie, focusing solely on basketball, i dont see any worry that he cant tighten it up.

just dont agree with the premise of the article i guess.

The best thing I see about Suggs is that even from pages that always hated Orlando Magic and always will, it's really difficult to find clear weaknesses in his game.
Many articles that describe his game when the turn to speak about Jalen's weaknesses arrive they say "he can improve here, he's not the best on this or that..."
He's far from being a done product for the NBA, but he's ready for the NBA. And that's definitely something.
As he said, "the sky is the limit".

The best thing I see on him is not about his obvious talent or skills, is his mindset, his hunger to win, he's a competitor. He has fire in his eyes. And we've been looking for that for sooooo long that I can't even remember.

[drsd]

Change How The Magic Can Put Jalen Suggs In A Position To Thrive From Day One to The Magic Must Put Jalen Suggs In A Position To Thrive From Day One.

[drsd]

along with a few people, i dont view Suggs as a "flawed initiator". i dont view him as a 15 apg player. but then, there were only 2 players last year in double digit assists. I dont see any reason why Suggs couldnt be in the 6-7 apg range. as for his handle, he'll be a rookie, focusing solely on basketball, i dont see any worry that he cant tighten it up.

just dont agree with the premise of the article i guess.

Let's project a starting line-up in 2022/23 of Fultz/Suggs/Isaac/Wagner/Carter, there is a lot of very good passing there and it will keep the Magic from having a single player above 8apg; but they could lead the league in assists per game by the team.
(( also the excellent guard rebounding will similarly hold back the rpg from the bigs )).

I am starting to wonder if Suggs is the kind of player to build a "2003/04 Detroit Pistons"-type team. Ever starter being above average - to marginal all-star, but NO WEAK LINKS. I say this as there is the beginnings of excellent bench depth on this team and movement and pushing the ball will be key for Orlando to wear out opponents in the 4th quarter.

I can see Suggs as a guy that just grinds out wins.


..

[Skybox]

along with a few people, i dont view Suggs as a "flawed initiator". i dont view him as a 15 apg player. but then, there were only 2 players last year in double digit assists. I dont see any reason why Suggs couldnt be in the 6-7 apg range. as for his handle, he'll be a rookie, focusing solely on basketball, i dont see any worry that he cant tighten it up.

just dont agree with the premise of the article i guess.

The best thing I see about Suggs is that even from pages that always hated Orlando Magic and always will, it's really difficult to find clear weaknesses in his game.

Go check out the TOR RealGM...lots of rationalizing going on there. I thought all Canadians were nice

[jonbob17]

The guy was too wordy and artsy in his write up. Made the article seem like a project assignment for school that he needed to be graded on. Perhaps he's a guy trying too hard to secure a job.

This is how most draft twitter scouting is done these days. These guys are getting hired by teams all the time based in part on their thoroughness. Who wants to read a 2-line blurb, with a comp of the player at their 99% percentile outcome? I love when it's a 2nd round guy and their comp is Kawhi Leonard.

[pepe1991]

Start him at PG and find starting level SG, SF and C.
Oh and remove Fultz

[zaymon]

I think Suggs will make big improvement as a vertical athlete. His body is still maturing but also it was developed both for basketball and football. Even Jordan needed a year to change his body from baseball to basketball (altought there is more difference).
Also i dont agree Magic roster is a bad fit for Jalen. Author in the same article wrote that Suggs is active off the ball and cuts a lot. We will have 3 talented passers in the frontcourt in Okeke, Wagner and Carter. I believe they will handle the ball more than we expect.
Analyzing Hammond's and Weltman's previous team construction strategies i believe Suggs was propably 2 or 3 on the board, but i wouldnt even rule out 1.
Hammonds 2003/2004 Detroid Pistons had Chauncey Billups ( strong, similar college stats to Suggs)
Weltman's 2018/2019 Toronto Raptors had Kyle Lowry (strong guard, suspect shooting at the start of carrier)
2020/2021 Milwaukee Bucks- Jrue Holiday (strong guard, suspect shooting) not Hammonds aquisition but final piece of the puzzle

There are a lot of similarities between those teams and current Orlando Magic. Jalen Suggs fits like a glove and he doesnt need to be superstar scorer to fill the role.

[Knightro]

Start him at PG and find starting level SG, SF and C.
Oh and remove Fultz

No faith in Wagner being that guy at SF?

[MagicFan101]

Start him at PG and find starting level SG, SF and C.
Oh and remove Fultz

No faith in Wagner being that guy at SF?

He plays defense so Pepe doesn’t understand his value added.

[ARandomStranger]

Wagner is almost the perfect complimentary piece to a guy like Suggs. Just two smart guys who play hard and make the right plays with little mistakes in between. I could see any of the other guards slotting in to be the third guy, but I really hope that the third guy is RJ. Even as a Fultz supporter, if the jumper isn't there he is always going to be hindered, and with Suggs/Hampton/Anthony, there is a really strong group of young guards who don't have a defect holding them back.

This team is actually going to be, from at least a team-ball point of view, is going to be elite. They have the ability to be a top 5 defensive team and could be one of the better passing teams in the NBA as well with smart players like Suggs and Wagner there.

[PrimeThyme]

I think it's just easy to forget that he played on one of the greatest college teams of all time last year. Their only loss was in the Championship game against Baylor after having to play an all-time classic overtime game against the hottest team in the country less than two nights before.

2 other All-Americans played on the team (Timme, Kispert) && the other two starters (Ayayi, Nembhard) were all-conference players and borderline All-Americans themselves. Just going back and watching their games has been a joy because they really were a superb collegiate basketball team who ran Mark Few's system to a tee.

Suggs just didn't create a ton of offense for them because he didn't have to. That by no means he couldn't. He often did, && I think the Gonzaga vs USC Elite-8 game is a good taste of the shot-creating/playmaking he can provide for a team.

I think he will excel in that role at the next level.

[pepe1991]

Start him at PG and find starting level SG, SF and C.
Oh and remove Fultz

No faith in Wagner being that guy at SF?

He plays defense so Pepe doesn’t understand his value added.

My all time favorite players are Duncan and Durant... So it's clear i value defense. But not Mo Bamba and Aaron Gordon type of "defense" where players goes fishing for blocks or steals and ruins concept of team defense due > 60 BBIQ . 37 years old Duncan could hardly move and was better defender than those 2 were in mid 20s by using his brain only.

Anyway, i don't think things Wagner was able to do at college are that transending in nba.
I don't think he has latheral quickness nor strenght to be anything more than average defender. If he plays SF he will be tasked to guard some of most athletic players in whole world.

His shooting today isn't really his strenght, he isn't terrible nor he has broken form, but it doesn't go in at good rate.

As a ballhandler, against elite athletes, i just can't see him creating any serious ,effective offense. His handles are not that good and he does not have quick enough first step to be effective if he is slotted at SF.

I also don't think his best postion in nba is SF, it's probably PF. Especially if he is 6'10 now.

Now, can you move him at PF and play Isaac at Center? Maybe. But to me that's too many moving parts of roster to be sucessful, especially because it's just easier to use top 5-8 pick in 2022 to draft "normal" center anyway.

I'm not "mad" on Orlando for drafting him, but it's boring safe pick. Low upside, low ceiling.

[zaymon]

No faith in Wagner being that guy at SF?

He plays defense so Pepe doesn’t understand his value added.

My all time favorite players are Duncan and Durant... So it's clear i value defense. But not Mo Bamba and Aaron Gordon type of "defense" where players goes fishing for blocks or steals and ruins concept of team defense due > 60 BBIQ . 37 years old Duncan could hardly move and was better defender than those 2 were in mid 20s by using his brain only.

Anyway, i don't think things Wagner was able to do at college are that transending in nba.
I don't think he has latheral quickness nor strenght to be anything more than average defender. If he plays SF he will be tasked to guard some of most athletic players in whole world.

His shooting today isn't really his strenght, he isn't terrible nor he has broken form, but it doesn't go in at good rate.

As a ballhandler, against elite athletes, i just can't see him creating any serious ,effective offense. His handles are not that good and he does not have quick enough first step to be effective if he is slotted at SF.

I also don't think his best postion in nba is SF, it's probably PF. Especially if he is 6'10 now.

Now, can you move him at PF and play Isaac at Center? Maybe. But to me that's too many moving parts of roster to be sucessful, especially because it's just easier to use top 5-8 pick in 2022 to draft "normal" center anyway.

I'm not "mad" on Orlando for drafting him, but it's boring safe pick. Low upside, low ceiling.

I think you are underestimating him. Not many players move like him at 6'10. Players like him are often silent parts of contenders.
Hedo Turkoglu, Tayshaun Prince.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

He moves at least as good as Turkoglu and his shooting and passing also feels more advanced.