Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic)

[Pooh_Jeter]

They didn't do everything in their power to keep Kyle happy. They traded his best friend and pissed him off But, since they gave him the correct good-bye now they can use that as a calling card and I'm sure he'll have good things to say.

Instead of being objective with the facts at hand, you're just positing a contrarian take here. So the Raptors shouldn't have traded for Kawhi in order to appease Kyle?

I highly doubt you believe that and if that is the case your argument is in total bad faith.

[Skeezo]

what cap space people are pining over. the 17 mil cap space?

lets see what players signed for more than mle and less than $17

devonte graham rfa (s&t) for 4 year 47
holmes 4yr 55
derrick rose 3 year 43
doug mcdermmit 3 yr 42
kelly olynyk 3yr 37

What happens at the end of Free Agency or the Trade Deadline when teams are either pressed to save money off the luxury tax, or a trying to line up space for another year? What is the cost of using other teams cap space? Picks? Prospects? Come on dude, you're smart enough with the nuances of the league to know the value of cap space.

Second, if you're asking me if I would rather Dragic, Achuiwa, and Watanabe over potentially signing Dinwiddie for 20m per, I'll go with the later.

[Apz]

Most Heat fans hate the trade and are really sad to see dragic go...

I think ppl underrate Dragic, he's tough as nails and played in a defensive system for a long time. I think he will fit perfectly.

Seriously, he's still so good. Obviously not the same player as in his prime but he will sometimes pull a move that reminds you of Phoenix Dragic.

He was their best player at times. In fact, he's like their Lowry.

Watch on YouTube

If the idea is that we want to see this team operate like we did last year plus a good C the whole way then we could do worse with replacing Lowry with Dragic plus two young developmental pieces we've lacked in Okpala and Precious.

If these guys develop then we're cooking and we trust that our player developmental team is pretty good, right?

They're betting that they can make the same sorts of leaps that Norm, OG, DeMar, JV, Jakob, Kyle, Fred, Pascal, etc made. Pretty much most (not all, tbf) of our guys got better, right?

Seems they also target a certain type of player mentally as well, right? That doesn't rest and generally strives internally to do better?

It sucks that this deal got held up but I can see why they did it. If Kyle is your GROAT, then you act accordingly. And they have. That will come back to us in the future.

Well imagine that with the caliber of prospect we have now?

I've really warmed up the idea of keeping him now lol. Worst case Ontario we can always trade him at the deadline.

Pretty sjre thats what the fo thought. "Oh, we will take dragic. We can trade him right away and get something back"

Then boom, all capspace is gone and guys like schröder, markannen, collins derozan and so on is the last around fighting for the last dollars. 20m salary is not going to be easy to move even at deadline. Stars need to align. That some playoff team got a 20m pg, preferably expiring, get injured and get traded straight up for him.

What teams are collecting capsspace next season? We know teams like mavs, atlanta and such wont have cap since their stars contracts kick in so they dont really want an expiring, specially one that will sign with heat again. And the tanking teams want picks to take it on. But we will see

[Courtside]

They didn't do everything in their power to keep Kyle happy. They traded his best friend and pissed him off But, since they gave him the correct good-bye now they can use that as a calling card and I'm sure he'll have good things to say.

Instead of being objective with the facts at hand, you're just positing a contrarian take here. So the Raptors shouldn't have traded for Kawhi in order to appease Kyle?

I highly doubt you believe that and if that is the case your argument is in total bad faith.

Says the guy whose post history is littered with bad faith contrarian takes based on few if any objective facts? LMAO!!

[rrdjutriurt]

They didn't do everything in their power to keep Kyle happy. They traded his best friend and pissed him off But, since they gave him the correct good-bye now they can use that as a calling card and I'm sure he'll have good things to say.

Instead of being objective with the facts at hand, you're just positing a contrarian take here. So the Raptors shouldn't have traded for Kawhi in order to appease Kyle?

I highly doubt you believe that and if that is the case your argument is in total bad faith.

Kyle knows the Raptors will always be the biggest part of his legacy and you can bet he will always have nothing but the most positive things to say about the organization going forward. Kyle knows it's a business and Demar getting traded as well as others is inevitably going to happen in this league.

[ATLTimekeeper]

They didn't do everything in their power to keep Kyle happy. They traded his best friend and pissed him off But, since they gave him the correct good-bye now they can use that as a calling card and I'm sure he'll have good things to say.

Instead of being objective with the facts at hand, you're just positing a contrarian take here. So the Raptors shouldn't have traded for Kawhi in order to appease Kyle?

I highly doubt you believe that and if that is the case your argument is in total bad faith.

Sorry, but you don't get to make these accusations. Not after Nets in 7

The Raptors weren't kneeling down to all of Kyle's wants throughout his career, and no one said they should. We're talking about paying well, above market price in most cases. Post-title, they agreed to accommodate him in his exit and that's what they did.

[Los_29]

They didn't do everything in their power to keep Kyle happy. They traded his best friend and pissed him off But, since they gave him the correct good-bye now they can use that as a calling card and I'm sure he'll have good things to say.

Instead of being objective with the facts at hand, you're just positing a contrarian take here. So the Raptors shouldn't have traded for Kawhi in order to appease Kyle?

I highly doubt you believe that and if that is the case your argument is in total bad faith.

Sorry, but you don't get to make these accusations. Not after Nets in 7

The Raptors weren't kneeling down to all of Kyle's wants throughout his career, and no one said they should. We're talking about paying well, above market price in most cases. Post-title, they agreed to accommodate him in his exit and that's what they did.

Not only that but it seems like what we will be getting back in return for Kyle is better than what we could've got back at the deadline. I think most here would take Precious over Maxey and Dragic over guys like Danny Green. And who knows, we might be getting back a 2nd rounder and KZ.

[Skeezo]

I'm speculating that the offers were about the same, yes. It's close to the same whether Dragic represents cap or not. I personally think he's worth more to the Raptors or another team than just being waived and replaced by what the FA market had to offer, but none of this is franchise altering stuff.

• As long as you are admitting that what you were peddling as being "true" was actually "speculation"... We cool
• Again, if you think 19.5m REAL dollars versus still getting Achuiwa and having 17m in cap to weaponize at our disposal is close to same value as the deadline, I will simply disagree

Those players you mentioned aren't raving about management or ownership. The city is not up for debate, it's inflexible, but the organization is. You've confused these things here. As for Masai's ruthlessness, I don't see it as ruthless. He lied to DeMar's face to protect the trade talks. That's a difficult position, but it wasn't meant to be a cold-hearted one, and they've since mended fences.

• I don't say Masai's "ruthlessness" as a negative connotation
• How many teams in the league are there where players RAVE about the ownership & management where there aren't instances of BIG HOF players who also had beef with the same said franchises/management? Miami, LAL, Boston, Dallas, SAS... They all have horror stories I can point to with players, but their Franchise reputation is still intact... As a result, this differentiation you are trying I find to be a minor one with respect to the impact of Lowry's outgoing.

[biblast]

Absolutely, fk Dallas and no way raps waive him... raps need to think and act in what is the best interests of raps... i don't care about accommodating other players at our expense.... fkk this.

I know some of ya'll will be quick to point out that we're getting something in return for Kyle but at what cost ??
I don't think our plan was to absorb Dragic $19M contract, get Precious Achiuwa and sign a bunch of international scrubs ???
I know Masai can't do no wrong on this board and he's earned his reputation hence everyone is giving him a pass which is fine.
But I have to say that he's been a little bit off with some of the moves that he made since last year like the whole Ibaka/Gasol/Baynes debacle!

CAN do no wrong -- not can't. If he can't do no wrong, then he's doing everything wrong

FIXED.

[DreamTeam09]

Can we send Dragic to GSW in a SNT for oubre

Oubre would get a 3yr deal with the 3rd being a team option

[Rodrickle]

Can we send Dragic to GSW in a SNT for oubre

Oubre would get a 3yr deal with the 3rd being a team option

I don't think GS would want to take extra salary in Dragic. The taxes would be high. Probably just let him walk

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[DreamTeam09]

Dragic + Boucher for Wiggins + 2nd

[DonDoolie]

Dragic + Boucher for Wiggins + 2nd

Hell no. Why the **** would we want to take Wiggins contract

[Dalek]

I wonder if Toronto needs to stay in this deal at all and that may indeed be the true hold-up.

Precious Achiuwa is not a guy I would move heaven and earth for and neither is $19m Goran Dragic. If Dallas or some other team is not going to absorb Dragic and/or provide assets, then what would be Toronto's incentive to help Miami out?

It is a nice favor to Kyle, but this is a business and I don't think Precious Achuiwa is worth Toronto eating $19m for Dragic (or even a partial amount after a buyout).

Conversely, say we don't do this deal and just let Kyle go here is what I think is available (maybe someone else can confirm these numbers)

$112m Total Salary Cap for 2021

$99.4m including Dekker and Trent Jr.
$8m per year (guess) for Khem Birch

$107-108m Active roster depending on a couple minimum deals

Getting creative - say the Raps waits to sign Birch using the MLE until we over the cap, and waits to sign Trent Jr. using Bird rights then it frees up around $24m - $26m before we hit the cap.

Toronto could sign a player like Lauri Markanen or Dennis Schroeder to a $20-25m deal to get to the cap, then sign Trent Jr and Birch after. We get better talent and roster balance and actually do something in free agency for once.

[c3luong]

I wonder if Toronto needs to stay in this deal at all and that may indeed be the true hold-up.

Precious Achiuwa is not a guy I would move heaven and earth for and neither is $19m Goran Dragic. If Dallas or some other team is not going to absorb Dragic and/or provide assets, then what would be Toronto's incentive to help Miami out?

It is a nice favor to Kyle, but this is a business and I don't think Precious Achuiwa is worth Toronto eating $19m for Dragic (or even a partial amount after a buyout).

Conversely, say we don't do this deal and just let Kyle go here is what I think is available (maybe someone else can confirm these numbers)

$112m Total Salary Cap for 2021

$99.4m including Dekker and Trent Jr.
$8m per year (guess) for Khem Birch

$107-108m Active roster depending on a couple minimum deals

Getting creative - say the Raps waits to sign Birch using the MLE until we over the cap, and waits to sign Trent Jr. using Bird rights then it frees up around $24m - $26m before we hit the cap.

Toronto could sign a player like Lauri Markanen or Dennis Schroeder to a $20-25m deal to get to the cap, then sign Trent Jr and Birch after. We get better talent and roster balance and actually do something in free agency for once.

I think extension with Trent is done right? So we would have no reason to back out as we capped out either way?

[phanman]

I wonder if Toronto needs to stay in this deal at all and that may indeed be the true hold-up.

Precious Achiuwa is not a guy I would move heaven and earth for and neither is $19m Goran Dragic. If Dallas or some other team is not going to absorb Dragic and/or provide assets, then what would be Toronto's incentive to help Miami out?

It is a nice favor to Kyle, but this is a business and I don't think Precious Achuiwa is worth Toronto eating $19m for Dragic (or even a partial amount after a buyout).

Conversely, say we don't do this deal and just let Kyle go here is what I think is available (maybe someone else can confirm these numbers)

$112m Total Salary Cap for 2021

$99.4m including Dekker and Trent Jr.
$8m per year (guess) for Khem Birch

$107-108m Active roster depending on a couple minimum deals

Getting creative - say the Raps waits to sign Birch using the MLE until we over the cap, and waits to sign Trent Jr. using Bird rights then it frees up around $24m - $26m before we hit the cap.

Toronto could sign a player like Lauri Markanen or Dennis Schroeder to a $20-25m deal to get to the cap, then sign Trent Jr and Birch after. We get better talent and roster balance and actually do something in free agency for once.

The deal has already been agreed upon, they are just looking to add onto if they can prior to the first day that it can be officially signed. There is no way in hell that Masai would back out because that would cause a huge mess in future trades and obviously ruin the point of doing right by Lowry.

People need to look pass Dragic's 19m salary and look at the contributions he can actually make for us in the first half of next season. We always have the trade deadline to move him and you need big salaries to bring back big name players.

[Dalek]

I wonder if Toronto needs to stay in this deal at all and that may indeed be the true hold-up.

Precious Achiuwa is not a guy I would move heaven and earth for and neither is $19m Goran Dragic. If Dallas or some other team is not going to absorb Dragic and/or provide assets, then what would be Toronto's incentive to help Miami out?

It is a nice favor to Kyle, but this is a business and I don't think Precious Achuiwa is worth Toronto eating $19m for Dragic (or even a partial amount after a buyout).

Conversely, say we don't do this deal and just let Kyle go here is what I think is available (maybe someone else can confirm these numbers)

$112m Total Salary Cap for 2021

$99.4m including Dekker and Trent Jr.
$8m per year (guess) for Khem Birch

$107-108m Active roster depending on a couple minimum deals

Getting creative - say the Raps waits to sign Birch using the MLE until we over the cap, and waits to sign Trent Jr. using Bird rights then it frees up around $24m - $26m before we hit the cap.

Toronto could sign a player like Lauri Markanen or Dennis Schroeder to a $20-25m deal to get to the cap, then sign Trent Jr and Birch after. We get better talent and roster balance and actually do something in free agency for once.

I think extension with Trent is done right? So we would have no reason to back out as we capped out either way?

I think the contract technically cannot be submitted to the league until tomorrow or later. Trent Jr. is a restricted free agent and the Raptors have his full Bird Rights which allows them to exceed the cap if needed to re-sign him.

I doubt the Raps would do Miami like this because they wouldn't be able to sign Kyle at the amount he wants, but I think Toronto could create space if they played around with the timing of their signings.

[c3luong]

I wonder if Toronto needs to stay in this deal at all and that may indeed be the true hold-up.

Precious Achiuwa is not a guy I would move heaven and earth for and neither is $19m Goran Dragic. If Dallas or some other team is not going to absorb Dragic and/or provide assets, then what would be Toronto's incentive to help Miami out?

It is a nice favor to Kyle, but this is a business and I don't think Precious Achuiwa is worth Toronto eating $19m for Dragic (or even a partial amount after a buyout).

Conversely, say we don't do this deal and just let Kyle go here is what I think is available (maybe someone else can confirm these numbers)

$112m Total Salary Cap for 2021

$99.4m including Dekker and Trent Jr.
$8m per year (guess) for Khem Birch

$107-108m Active roster depending on a couple minimum deals

Getting creative - say the Raps waits to sign Birch using the MLE until we over the cap, and waits to sign Trent Jr. using Bird rights then it frees up around $24m - $26m before we hit the cap.

Toronto could sign a player like Lauri Markanen or Dennis Schroeder to a $20-25m deal to get to the cap, then sign Trent Jr and Birch after. We get better talent and roster balance and actually do something in free agency for once.

I think extension with Trent is done right? So we would have no reason to back out as we capped out either way?

I think the contract technically cannot be submitted to the league until tomorrow or later. Trent Jr. is a restricted free agent and the Raptors have his full Bird Rights which allows them to exceed the cap if needed to re-sign him.

I doubt the Raps would do Miami like this because they wouldn't be able to sign Kyle at the amount he wants, but I think Toronto could create space if they played around with the timing of their signings.

Actually that's right, can't sign anything until tomorrow apparently.

[StopitLeo]

I wonder if Toronto needs to stay in this deal at all and that may indeed be the true hold-up.

Precious Achiuwa is not a guy I would move heaven and earth for and neither is $19m Goran Dragic. If Dallas or some other team is not going to absorb Dragic and/or provide assets, then what would be Toronto's incentive to help Miami out?

It is a nice favor to Kyle, but this is a business and I don't think Precious Achuiwa is worth Toronto eating $19m for Dragic (or even a partial amount after a buyout).

Conversely, say we don't do this deal and just let Kyle go here is what I think is available (maybe someone else can confirm these numbers)

$112m Total Salary Cap for 2021

$99.4m including Dekker and Trent Jr.
$8m per year (guess) for Khem Birch

$107-108m Active roster depending on a couple minimum deals

Getting creative - say the Raps waits to sign Birch using the MLE until we over the cap, and waits to sign Trent Jr. using Bird rights then it frees up around $24m - $26m before we hit the cap.

Toronto could sign a player like Lauri Markanen or Dennis Schroeder to a $20-25m deal to get to the cap, then sign Trent Jr and Birch after. We get better talent and roster balance and actually do something in free agency for once.

I think it’s too late to back out of anything. Regardless, I wouldn’t pay Markkanen or Schroeder $20-25M.

[Dalek]

I wonder if Toronto needs to stay in this deal at all and that may indeed be the true hold-up.

Precious Achiuwa is not a guy I would move heaven and earth for and neither is $19m Goran Dragic. If Dallas or some other team is not going to absorb Dragic and/or provide assets, then what would be Toronto's incentive to help Miami out?

It is a nice favor to Kyle, but this is a business and I don't think Precious Achuiwa is worth Toronto eating $19m for Dragic (or even a partial amount after a buyout).

Conversely, say we don't do this deal and just let Kyle go here is what I think is available (maybe someone else can confirm these numbers)

$112m Total Salary Cap for 2021

$99.4m including Dekker and Trent Jr.
$8m per year (guess) for Khem Birch

$107-108m Active roster depending on a couple minimum deals

Getting creative - say the Raps waits to sign Birch using the MLE until we over the cap, and waits to sign Trent Jr. using Bird rights then it frees up around $24m - $26m before we hit the cap.

Toronto could sign a player like Lauri Markanen or Dennis Schroeder to a $20-25m deal to get to the cap, then sign Trent Jr and Birch after. We get better talent and roster balance and actually do something in free agency for once.

The deal has already been agreed upon, they are just looking to add onto if they can prior to the first day that it can be officially signed. There is no way in hell that Masai would back out because that would cause a huge mess in future trades and obviously ruin the point of doing right by Lowry.

People need to look pass Dragic's 19m salary and look at the contributions he can actually make for us in the first half of next season. We always have the trade deadline to move him and you need big salaries to bring back big name players.

Sorry, I am more pessimistic. I'd put the odds on Dragic just being bought out early before the season starts. Why would a 35 year even play a single game for a rebuilding team? It will be like Andre Iguadala sitting after Memphis traded for him.

I also doubt we would recoup anything for Dragic. He is a huge salary and unless we want a bad contract like Wiggins, we won't get any offers.