2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
Welcome to the 20-21 All-Season Awards Voting thread.
For the Discussion thread that proceeded this voting over the months of the season, here it is.
This thread will be open for one week, and I will tally the votes up on Friday August 6th, at my convenience. To ensure your vote counts, please post in this thread by end of day August 5th.
Guidelines:
1. Only those on the Voting Panel should be voting. If you'd like to be added to the panel, please PM me. Note that the intention is to give votes to those who've already been established in these award discussions previously. If that's you and you're not on this panel, just convey your interest and I'll add you. If that's not you but you're still interested, win me over in your PM. I don't want this to exclude anyone who has put a lot of thought into it.
2. Please try to keep discussion about these awards in the Discussion thread, particularly before I tally the votes. That just makes it a lot easier for me in the tallying process.
3. Remember that for all of these awards, you're given freedom as to how evaluate this season's NBA accomplishment, but you must context your votes in terms of what players did this season. This isn't about who you'd rather have if they were healthy or any other type of abstract absolute goodness. It's about what they did this year, and how you judge the achievement.
4. POY voting is generally considered mandatory, all other awards are optional - feel free to only vote for what you care about.
5. POY ballots must be 1-5, and will be tallied on a 10-7-5-3-1 system just like the NBA's MVP.
6. All other ballots must be 1-3, and will be tallied on a 5-3-1 system just like the NBA's other awards.
7. Any ballots left only partially complete will be not be counted.
Voting Panel:
1. Doctor MJ
2. Texas Chuck
3. eminence
4. Colbinii
5. falcolombardi
6. HeartBreakKid
7. Outside
8. bondom34
9. Dutchball97
10. BobbyPortisFan
11. therealbig3
12. Fundamentals21
13. LukaTheGOAT
14. Jaivl
15. iggymcfrack
16. GSP
17. Eddy_JukeZ
18. Ambrose
19. Dupp
20. Peregrine01
21. Clyde Frazier
22. trex_8063
23. penbeast0
24. PaulieWal
25. Quotatious
26. Odinn21
For the Discussion thread that proceeded this voting over the months of the season, here it is.
This thread will be open for one week, and I will tally the votes up on Friday August 6th, at my convenience. To ensure your vote counts, please post in this thread by end of day August 5th.
Guidelines:
1. Only those on the Voting Panel should be voting. If you'd like to be added to the panel, please PM me. Note that the intention is to give votes to those who've already been established in these award discussions previously. If that's you and you're not on this panel, just convey your interest and I'll add you. If that's not you but you're still interested, win me over in your PM. I don't want this to exclude anyone who has put a lot of thought into it.
2. Please try to keep discussion about these awards in the Discussion thread, particularly before I tally the votes. That just makes it a lot easier for me in the tallying process.
3. Remember that for all of these awards, you're given freedom as to how evaluate this season's NBA accomplishment, but you must context your votes in terms of what players did this season. This isn't about who you'd rather have if they were healthy or any other type of abstract absolute goodness. It's about what they did this year, and how you judge the achievement.
4. POY voting is generally considered mandatory, all other awards are optional - feel free to only vote for what you care about.
5. POY ballots must be 1-5, and will be tallied on a 10-7-5-3-1 system just like the NBA's MVP.
6. All other ballots must be 1-3, and will be tallied on a 5-3-1 system just like the NBA's other awards.
7. Any ballots left only partially complete will be not be counted.
Voting Panel:
1. Doctor MJ
2. Texas Chuck
3. eminence
4. Colbinii
5. falcolombardi
6. HeartBreakKid
7. Outside
8. bondom34
9. Dutchball97
10. BobbyPortisFan
11. therealbig3
12. Fundamentals21
13. LukaTheGOAT
14. Jaivl
15. iggymcfrack
16. GSP
17. Eddy_JukeZ
18. Ambrose
19. Dupp
20. Peregrine01
21. Clyde Frazier
22. trex_8063
23. penbeast0
24. PaulieWal
25. Quotatious
26. Odinn21
Getting ready for the RealGM 100 on the PC Board
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
Invite to those on initial voter list:
Spoiler:
Getting ready for the RealGM 100 on the PC Board
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
POY:
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo - Going into the play-offs I had Giannis as a top 3 player. A good bit behind Jokic but right there with Curry imo. He then went on to have an incredible post-season run. Excelling on both sides of the ball on the way to leading the Bucks to their first ring in 50 years. With Curry missing the play-offs and Jokic having a good but not quite great post-season I think Giannis did enough to earn the top spot this year.
2. Nikola Jokic - I had Jokic on top of my MVP ranking pretty much from day 1. Embiid and LeBron were close early, while Curry stepped up later in the season but none of them had a regular season as consistently great as Jokic. Going into the play-offs I said one of the top 10 players would need to have an amazing run to even contend with Jokic for the #1 spot. Giannis just about managed to accomplish this in my book, although I definitely understand the arguments for Jokic here as well. Jokic didn't have the deepest run and he was targeted on the defensive end but he still had a very solid performance in the play-offs.
3. Joel Embiid - For the first half of the season Embiid was right behind Jokic and pretty much the co-best player in the league at the time. He missed quite some time though and when he came back later in the season he wasn't quite the same. Overall I still think he had a top 5 regular season and he showed up in the play-offs. He didn't do enough to pass Giannis and Jokic but I do think his play-offs performance pushed him ahead of Curry and Gobert. His team result was pretty disappointing but I don't think he should be penalized too heavy for that considering how he dominated on both ends of the floor and was the clear best player in that 76ers - Hawks series.
4. Kawhi Leonard - Kawhi did miss time in the regular season but he still played more minutes than Embiid, LeBron, Butler, Harden, KD and AD. He had a clear top 10 regular season imo and was one of the players most likely to break into the top 5 with a strong play-off run. Kawhi got injured in the play-offs and only played 11 games but he still came in 3rd in both VORP and WS. Shades of 2017 in a way, although this year wasn't quite at that level.
5. Stephen Curry - It seems I'm a bit lower on Curry's season overall than the majority in the discussion thread seems to be. I'm someone who sees the regular season as the qualifying round with the play-offs as the main stage so someone missing the play-offs is a tough sell for me. Automatically disqualifying someone because he missed the play-offs isn't fair either though so for others to pass him they needed impressive play-off runs. Although both Luka and Dame played very well in the post-season, they both lost in the first round. The small sample size wasn't enough to put them ahead of Curry. Gobert wasn't far behind Curry in the regular season and he was in the best position of anyone not named Giannis to pass Curry but his performance in the post-season didn't do him any favors. KD had a strong enough post-season but he missed too much time in the regular season. Trae and CP3 were also simply too far behind Curry in the regular season for their play-offs to make the difference.
HM: Rudy Gobert, Damian Lillard, Luka Doncic
OPOY:
1. Nikola Jokic
2. Stephen Curry
3. Damian Lillard
HM: Luka Doncic, Kawhi Leonard
DPOY:
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
2. Rudy Gobert
3. Joel Embiid
HM: Draymond Green
ROY:
1. LaMelo Ball
2. Tyrese Haliburton
3. Anthony Edwards
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo - Going into the play-offs I had Giannis as a top 3 player. A good bit behind Jokic but right there with Curry imo. He then went on to have an incredible post-season run. Excelling on both sides of the ball on the way to leading the Bucks to their first ring in 50 years. With Curry missing the play-offs and Jokic having a good but not quite great post-season I think Giannis did enough to earn the top spot this year.
2. Nikola Jokic - I had Jokic on top of my MVP ranking pretty much from day 1. Embiid and LeBron were close early, while Curry stepped up later in the season but none of them had a regular season as consistently great as Jokic. Going into the play-offs I said one of the top 10 players would need to have an amazing run to even contend with Jokic for the #1 spot. Giannis just about managed to accomplish this in my book, although I definitely understand the arguments for Jokic here as well. Jokic didn't have the deepest run and he was targeted on the defensive end but he still had a very solid performance in the play-offs.
3. Joel Embiid - For the first half of the season Embiid was right behind Jokic and pretty much the co-best player in the league at the time. He missed quite some time though and when he came back later in the season he wasn't quite the same. Overall I still think he had a top 5 regular season and he showed up in the play-offs. He didn't do enough to pass Giannis and Jokic but I do think his play-offs performance pushed him ahead of Curry and Gobert. His team result was pretty disappointing but I don't think he should be penalized too heavy for that considering how he dominated on both ends of the floor and was the clear best player in that 76ers - Hawks series.
4. Kawhi Leonard - Kawhi did miss time in the regular season but he still played more minutes than Embiid, LeBron, Butler, Harden, KD and AD. He had a clear top 10 regular season imo and was one of the players most likely to break into the top 5 with a strong play-off run. Kawhi got injured in the play-offs and only played 11 games but he still came in 3rd in both VORP and WS. Shades of 2017 in a way, although this year wasn't quite at that level.
5. Stephen Curry - It seems I'm a bit lower on Curry's season overall than the majority in the discussion thread seems to be. I'm someone who sees the regular season as the qualifying round with the play-offs as the main stage so someone missing the play-offs is a tough sell for me. Automatically disqualifying someone because he missed the play-offs isn't fair either though so for others to pass him they needed impressive play-off runs. Although both Luka and Dame played very well in the post-season, they both lost in the first round. The small sample size wasn't enough to put them ahead of Curry. Gobert wasn't far behind Curry in the regular season and he was in the best position of anyone not named Giannis to pass Curry but his performance in the post-season didn't do him any favors. KD had a strong enough post-season but he missed too much time in the regular season. Trae and CP3 were also simply too far behind Curry in the regular season for their play-offs to make the difference.
HM: Rudy Gobert, Damian Lillard, Luka Doncic
OPOY:
1. Nikola Jokic
2. Stephen Curry
3. Damian Lillard
HM: Luka Doncic, Kawhi Leonard
DPOY:
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
2. Rudy Gobert
3. Joel Embiid
HM: Draymond Green
ROY:
1. LaMelo Ball
2. Tyrese Haliburton
3. Anthony Edwards
Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
POY
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
I had him behind Jokic up until the finals. After a historically great series and that unbelievable game 7, I couldn't justify keeping Jokic ahead any longer. I tend to be a large proponent of the regular season mattering but the gap in value, and overall play in the postseason was too much to ignore here. Once he figured out his ideal role as a modern post player late in the series against Brooklyn his game ascended to another level offensively. Defensively, he was incredible, and his effort in some of the finals games (game 6 especially) was something to behold.
2. Nikola Jokic
He was my #1 up until Giannis went beast mode against Phoenix. Up until that point he had a massive lead on everyone due to his absurd level of play, and his durability that knocked some of these other guys down a peg. He might have been more of a defensive liability than expected but was pretty easily the best offensive player in the NBA this season and is such a unique matchup for defenses. It's a shame his team was destroyed by injuries because they looked like the best team in the NBA post-Gordon trade.
3. Joel Embiid
Embiid was the only guy who seemed to be near Jokic is the regular season but in typical Embiid fashion missed a lot of games. He earned my respect by playing exceptionally well in the postseason on a bad knee despite the earlier than expected exit. Doc showing up appeared to get him on track as he easily had his best season and looked borderline unstoppable at times. He's kind of on his own level here. Clearly behind the top 2 and clearly ahead of the next 2.
4. Steph Curry
Steph went on an absolute tear at the end of the season and launched himself up the list big time. He was looking like the most dominant player in the game for a stretch and a pretty bad Warriors team all of a sudden started winning like crazy. They were horrendous without him, and post-Wiseman injury they looked like a surefire playoff team. They had two tough matchups and didn't end up getting into the postseason at all but his level of play and impact was so far ahead of anyone else in the regular season that it didn't matter.
5. Luka Doncic
This came down to Doncic, Leonard, and Lillard. Deciding factor for me was that I don't believe for a second that either of those guys could've done what he did with Dallas. He's simply a much better offensive engine than Kawhi, and better overall player than Dame. He took a team with worse talent further than Dame and nearly took out Kawhi with a severe lack of talent and even outplayed him overall. In the context of this season, Luka was better in the regular season than both of those guys, and what he accomplished taking the Clippers to 7 games was imo more impressive than Dame losing to a depleted Denver team or the Clippers blowing by Utah and hanging with Phoenix without Kawhi.
OPOY
1. Nikola Jokic
2. Steph Curry
3. Luka Doncic
DPOY
1. Rudy Gobert
2. Giannis Antentokounmpo
3. Ben Simmons
ROY
1. Tyrese Haliburton
2. LaMelo Ball
3. Anthony Edwards
MIP
1. Julius Randle
2. Michael Porter Jr.
3. Joel Embiid
COY
1. Tom Thibodeau
2. Monty Williams
3. Nate McMillan
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
I had him behind Jokic up until the finals. After a historically great series and that unbelievable game 7, I couldn't justify keeping Jokic ahead any longer. I tend to be a large proponent of the regular season mattering but the gap in value, and overall play in the postseason was too much to ignore here. Once he figured out his ideal role as a modern post player late in the series against Brooklyn his game ascended to another level offensively. Defensively, he was incredible, and his effort in some of the finals games (game 6 especially) was something to behold.
2. Nikola Jokic
He was my #1 up until Giannis went beast mode against Phoenix. Up until that point he had a massive lead on everyone due to his absurd level of play, and his durability that knocked some of these other guys down a peg. He might have been more of a defensive liability than expected but was pretty easily the best offensive player in the NBA this season and is such a unique matchup for defenses. It's a shame his team was destroyed by injuries because they looked like the best team in the NBA post-Gordon trade.
3. Joel Embiid
Embiid was the only guy who seemed to be near Jokic is the regular season but in typical Embiid fashion missed a lot of games. He earned my respect by playing exceptionally well in the postseason on a bad knee despite the earlier than expected exit. Doc showing up appeared to get him on track as he easily had his best season and looked borderline unstoppable at times. He's kind of on his own level here. Clearly behind the top 2 and clearly ahead of the next 2.
4. Steph Curry
Steph went on an absolute tear at the end of the season and launched himself up the list big time. He was looking like the most dominant player in the game for a stretch and a pretty bad Warriors team all of a sudden started winning like crazy. They were horrendous without him, and post-Wiseman injury they looked like a surefire playoff team. They had two tough matchups and didn't end up getting into the postseason at all but his level of play and impact was so far ahead of anyone else in the regular season that it didn't matter.
5. Luka Doncic
This came down to Doncic, Leonard, and Lillard. Deciding factor for me was that I don't believe for a second that either of those guys could've done what he did with Dallas. He's simply a much better offensive engine than Kawhi, and better overall player than Dame. He took a team with worse talent further than Dame and nearly took out Kawhi with a severe lack of talent and even outplayed him overall. In the context of this season, Luka was better in the regular season than both of those guys, and what he accomplished taking the Clippers to 7 games was imo more impressive than Dame losing to a depleted Denver team or the Clippers blowing by Utah and hanging with Phoenix without Kawhi.
OPOY
1. Nikola Jokic
2. Steph Curry
3. Luka Doncic
DPOY
1. Rudy Gobert
2. Giannis Antentokounmpo
3. Ben Simmons
ROY
1. Tyrese Haliburton
2. LaMelo Ball
3. Anthony Edwards
MIP
1. Julius Randle
2. Michael Porter Jr.
3. Joel Embiid
COY
1. Tom Thibodeau
2. Monty Williams
3. Nate McMillan
~Regarding Denver Nuggets, May 2025hardenASG13 wrote:They are better than the teammates of SGA, Giannis, Luka, Brunson, Curry etc. so far.
Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
1.Nikola Jokic- Clearly the best player in the regular season. Improved his scoring output this season and carried the Nuggets to the playoffs without Jamal Murray. His offensive impact was historic to the point where he arguably could be considered as the best center ever offensively
2.Giannis Antetokounmpo- Had a down year in the RS compared to 19 and 20, but took it up a notch in the postseason and end up winning the title. I dont have him number 1 here because lets get real here, his supporting cast was better than Jokic.
3.Joel Embiid
4.Stephen Curry
5.Rudy Gobert- Gobert was the main reason why the Jazz was the number 1 seed this season. His defensive impact was off the charts this season. Anchored the Jazz to the 4th best defense int the league. Alot of fans criticize him for playoff play but the Jazz was worse without him on the defensive end in the PS.
OPOY
1.Nikola Jokic
2.Stephen Curry
3.Damian Lillard
DPOY
1.Rudy Gobert
2.Clint Capela- very underrated defensively, he didnt have much help from his teammates on the defensive end. On-OFf RPM, RAPM, and LEBRON ranks him very highly on D.
3.Draymond Green
ROY
1.Lamelo Ball
2.Tyrese Haliburton
3.Anthony Edwards
2.Giannis Antetokounmpo- Had a down year in the RS compared to 19 and 20, but took it up a notch in the postseason and end up winning the title. I dont have him number 1 here because lets get real here, his supporting cast was better than Jokic.
3.Joel Embiid
4.Stephen Curry
5.Rudy Gobert- Gobert was the main reason why the Jazz was the number 1 seed this season. His defensive impact was off the charts this season. Anchored the Jazz to the 4th best defense int the league. Alot of fans criticize him for playoff play but the Jazz was worse without him on the defensive end in the PS.
OPOY
1.Nikola Jokic
2.Stephen Curry
3.Damian Lillard
DPOY
1.Rudy Gobert
2.Clint Capela- very underrated defensively, he didnt have much help from his teammates on the defensive end. On-OFf RPM, RAPM, and LEBRON ranks him very highly on D.
3.Draymond Green
ROY
1.Lamelo Ball
2.Tyrese Haliburton
3.Anthony Edwards
Narigo's Fantasy Team
PG: Damian Lillard
SG: Sidney Moncrief
SF:
PF: James Worthy
C: Tim Duncan
BE: Robert Horry
BE:
BE:
PG: Damian Lillard
SG: Sidney Moncrief
SF:
PF: James Worthy
C: Tim Duncan
BE: Robert Horry
BE:
BE:
Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
EDIT: Updated to include my rationale
EDIT 2: Added OPOY
POY
1. Giannis
2. Jokic
3. Curry
4. Embiid
5. Gobert
Jokic was my number one up until the finals. The RS counts for a lot, and he dominated the RS from an MVP standpoint. Jokic put up good box score stats in his playoff run, but his defense was not good, and Ayton was able to somewhat limit him. It's not Jokic's fault that half his team was hurt and he was playing with scrubs at both guard spots against a team with excellent guards, but despite the counting stats, I still came away from the Phoenix series with too much of a meh feeling.
Giannis was the only one with a chance to overtake Jokic. He had an under-the-radar RS that put him within striking range of Jokic. Giannis didn't have a great PS start, but he closed really well against the Nets, and, well, then came the finals. In my mind, it would take an exceptional finals for Giannis to pass Jokic, and that's what Giannis delivered.
Curry was unbelievably good this season. The on/off numbers are staggering. Once Wiseman and Oubre were hurt and the team was no longer in development mode (Wiseman) or don't-want-to-hurt-your-ego mode (Oubre), they went for wins, Curry went nuclear, and they shoulda coulda woulda made the playoffs. I watched him game after game, and Curry was special. I always considered him among the best ceiling raisers ever for a championship-level team but didn't think he was that good of a floor raiser for a lousy team, but this season proved me wrong on that count.
Embiid is really good on both ends and has the impact stats to back that up. But he missed too many games, he got hurt again in the playoffs, and he faded late in games too often. He's just not durable. His PS production was good, but his efficiency was down significantly. He was much less impactful defensively. Some of that is due to playing with a knee injury, and some to the general team dysfunction, but this was not that great of a PS for him.
I have several guys bunched up for the fifth spot -- Gobert, Lillard, Kawhi, Doncic are my main contenders. I've gone back and forth, and I'm giving Gobert the edge based on impact numbers. Kawhi missed a lot of games, including the PS. Lillard and Doncic are great offensively but bad defensively. Gobert it is.
OPOY
1. Jokic
2. Curry
3. Doncic
Jokic did it all year long, with a full roster and an injury-riddled roster, and has box score stats and metrics to back up his case. Curry was really, really good from the start, but he didn't go into supernova mode until Wiseman and Oubre went out with injuries. Doncic started slow, and he doesn't have the scoring efficiency that Jokic and Curry have.
If there were a way to quantify the number and quality of offensive opportunities generated indirectly for teammates by Curry, then I'd be tempted to put him first, but for now, that's in the realm of eye test and bias.
DPOY
1. Rudy Gobert
2. Draymond Green
3. Ben Simmons
Gobert is a clear choice for the top spot. I like Draymond's versatility and savant-level IQ more than Gobert's brute impact, but like Curry, Draymond takes a hit because of the Warriors' lackluster team performance. The Jazz were fourth in DRtg and the Warriors fifth, but Gobert has the edge.
Simmons over Embiid was close. Simmons' offensive PS meltdown doesn't affect my assessment of his defensive performance, and when I watched the Sixers play, Embiid's impact was limited to the area around the basket, which while very valuable, didn't compare to what I saw Simmons do as a perimeter defender plus being a good inside defender.
MIP
1. Deandre Ayton
2. Julius Randle
3. Michael Porter, Jr.
Ayton lost a lot of the PS shine in the finals that he'd built up in earlier rounds, but there's no doubt that he was a big reason why the Suns made it to the finals. Getting worked in the finals by the two-time MVP and my choice for POY is to be expected when he was given so little help. The fact remains that the Suns continued to put Ayton on Giannis as the series wore on because they knew he was their best option. How things went in the finals doesn't take away from what he did in prior rounds.
Randle and Porter for the next spots is pretty straightforward. Zion would be my choice after that, and he deserves a shout-out.
COY
1. Monty Williams
2. Nate McMillan
3. Steve Nash
Monty for excellent job throughout the RS. I kept expecting the Suns to drop back, but instead, they stayed with the Jazz all season. Then getting to the finals. Absolutely great job for a team with most players who had never been to the playoffs.
Nate had to tough job of coming in with the season underway and the team in disarray. He not only pulled off a RS turnaround, he got the Hawks past Philly and into the conference finals.
I give Nash credit for managing personalities and roles on that roster -- working Durant back after a year recovering; dealing with Kyrie and his issues, which could've caused huge problems; incorporating Harden mid-season; keeping the big three happy together; turning them into a decent defense after losing their best defensive players in the Harden deal; dealing with all the injuries. That was a tall order for a rookie coach.
EOY
1. Sean Marks, Brooklyn
2. James Jones, Phoenix
3. Travis Schlenk, Atlanta
Marks gets credit for pulling off the Harden deal, which could've blown up in spectacular fashion, and getting Griffin and Aldridge as late season pickups. Aldridge obviously didn't work out due to health reasons, but it turns out Griffin is still an NBA player, which wasn't clear based on how things ended up for him in Detroit.
James Jones -- brought in Chris Paul and Jae Crowder to turn a young roster into a contender. Getting free agents to come to Phoenix is no small feat.
I'm including Travis Schlenk for having the guts to cut loose Lloyd Pierce midseason and bring in Nate McMillan. That kind of move doesn't usually work out anywhere near that well.
EDIT 2: Added OPOY
POY
1. Giannis
2. Jokic
3. Curry
4. Embiid
5. Gobert
Jokic was my number one up until the finals. The RS counts for a lot, and he dominated the RS from an MVP standpoint. Jokic put up good box score stats in his playoff run, but his defense was not good, and Ayton was able to somewhat limit him. It's not Jokic's fault that half his team was hurt and he was playing with scrubs at both guard spots against a team with excellent guards, but despite the counting stats, I still came away from the Phoenix series with too much of a meh feeling.
Giannis was the only one with a chance to overtake Jokic. He had an under-the-radar RS that put him within striking range of Jokic. Giannis didn't have a great PS start, but he closed really well against the Nets, and, well, then came the finals. In my mind, it would take an exceptional finals for Giannis to pass Jokic, and that's what Giannis delivered.
Curry was unbelievably good this season. The on/off numbers are staggering. Once Wiseman and Oubre were hurt and the team was no longer in development mode (Wiseman) or don't-want-to-hurt-your-ego mode (Oubre), they went for wins, Curry went nuclear, and they shoulda coulda woulda made the playoffs. I watched him game after game, and Curry was special. I always considered him among the best ceiling raisers ever for a championship-level team but didn't think he was that good of a floor raiser for a lousy team, but this season proved me wrong on that count.
Embiid is really good on both ends and has the impact stats to back that up. But he missed too many games, he got hurt again in the playoffs, and he faded late in games too often. He's just not durable. His PS production was good, but his efficiency was down significantly. He was much less impactful defensively. Some of that is due to playing with a knee injury, and some to the general team dysfunction, but this was not that great of a PS for him.
I have several guys bunched up for the fifth spot -- Gobert, Lillard, Kawhi, Doncic are my main contenders. I've gone back and forth, and I'm giving Gobert the edge based on impact numbers. Kawhi missed a lot of games, including the PS. Lillard and Doncic are great offensively but bad defensively. Gobert it is.
OPOY
1. Jokic
2. Curry
3. Doncic
Jokic did it all year long, with a full roster and an injury-riddled roster, and has box score stats and metrics to back up his case. Curry was really, really good from the start, but he didn't go into supernova mode until Wiseman and Oubre went out with injuries. Doncic started slow, and he doesn't have the scoring efficiency that Jokic and Curry have.
If there were a way to quantify the number and quality of offensive opportunities generated indirectly for teammates by Curry, then I'd be tempted to put him first, but for now, that's in the realm of eye test and bias.
DPOY
1. Rudy Gobert
2. Draymond Green
3. Ben Simmons
Gobert is a clear choice for the top spot. I like Draymond's versatility and savant-level IQ more than Gobert's brute impact, but like Curry, Draymond takes a hit because of the Warriors' lackluster team performance. The Jazz were fourth in DRtg and the Warriors fifth, but Gobert has the edge.
Simmons over Embiid was close. Simmons' offensive PS meltdown doesn't affect my assessment of his defensive performance, and when I watched the Sixers play, Embiid's impact was limited to the area around the basket, which while very valuable, didn't compare to what I saw Simmons do as a perimeter defender plus being a good inside defender.
MIP
1. Deandre Ayton
2. Julius Randle
3. Michael Porter, Jr.
Ayton lost a lot of the PS shine in the finals that he'd built up in earlier rounds, but there's no doubt that he was a big reason why the Suns made it to the finals. Getting worked in the finals by the two-time MVP and my choice for POY is to be expected when he was given so little help. The fact remains that the Suns continued to put Ayton on Giannis as the series wore on because they knew he was their best option. How things went in the finals doesn't take away from what he did in prior rounds.
Randle and Porter for the next spots is pretty straightforward. Zion would be my choice after that, and he deserves a shout-out.
COY
1. Monty Williams
2. Nate McMillan
3. Steve Nash
Monty for excellent job throughout the RS. I kept expecting the Suns to drop back, but instead, they stayed with the Jazz all season. Then getting to the finals. Absolutely great job for a team with most players who had never been to the playoffs.
Nate had to tough job of coming in with the season underway and the team in disarray. He not only pulled off a RS turnaround, he got the Hawks past Philly and into the conference finals.
I give Nash credit for managing personalities and roles on that roster -- working Durant back after a year recovering; dealing with Kyrie and his issues, which could've caused huge problems; incorporating Harden mid-season; keeping the big three happy together; turning them into a decent defense after losing their best defensive players in the Harden deal; dealing with all the injuries. That was a tall order for a rookie coach.
EOY
1. Sean Marks, Brooklyn
2. James Jones, Phoenix
3. Travis Schlenk, Atlanta
Marks gets credit for pulling off the Harden deal, which could've blown up in spectacular fashion, and getting Griffin and Aldridge as late season pickups. Aldridge obviously didn't work out due to health reasons, but it turns out Griffin is still an NBA player, which wasn't clear based on how things ended up for him in Detroit.
James Jones -- brought in Chris Paul and Jae Crowder to turn a young roster into a contender. Getting free agents to come to Phoenix is no small feat.
I'm including Travis Schlenk for having the guts to cut loose Lloyd Pierce midseason and bring in Nate McMillan. That kind of move doesn't usually work out anywhere near that well.
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.
Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
Outside wrote:I'll post my rationale in the discussion thread.
Oh, to be clear, I'd like to have peoples rationales for their own votes here - where I expect eyes from the future would be more likely to seek understanding. I just want to avoid having Vote posts missed because their mixed in with other discussion.
Getting ready for the RealGM 100 on the PC Board
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Come join the WNBA Board if you're a fan!
Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
Doctor MJ wrote:Outside wrote:I'll post my rationale in the discussion thread.
Oh, to be clear, I'd like to have peoples rationales for their own votes here - where I expect eyes from the future would be more likely to seek understanding. I just want to avoid having Vote posts missed because their mixed in with other discussion.
Added my rationale to my vote post.
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.
Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
POY vote.
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo - I had him 3/4 through the RS with Curry and behind Gobert/Jokic. I don't feel his PO run was overall quite as dominant as some seem to, but Curry's was non-existent, Gobert fizzled, and Jokic was just okay in round 2. Overall I think Giannis did all that was asked of him and got the job done after coming up a bit short the last few seasons. Finished very very strong with his Phoenix series. Not the strongest #1 I've ever voted for, but I feel good about him here.
2. Nikola Jokic - A fairly clean #2 in my mind. Great RS and a deserved MVP. Ridiculous performance in round 1. Team fell apart in round 2 and he wasn't immune from that but wasn't the primary cause. Will stay a favorite to watch for a long time for me, truly a unique force in NBA history.
3. Rudy Gobert - #3 vs #4 vs #5 was a tough ordering for me. I went with Rudy. I think he (along with Jokic) has a strong argument for having the best RS on the year. A dominant defensive season, with plenty of metrics pointing towards it being the single best of the 3pt era. Good first round. Couldn't deliver in round 2 vs a strong Clipper offense, but like Jokic above I don't believe most of the failures were on Gobert the individual.
4. Joel Embiid - Like I said, tough decision. Played at a level similar to the above 2 when he played during the RS, but missed a solid chunk of time. Played well in the playoffs, but frankly had his own shortcomings as his team was upset in the 2nd round. The most balanced of all the elite bigs, if he ever has that magical healthy season he could easily go home with the crown.
5. Stephen Curry - Just didn't have the team for it this season, but I think he put to rest any worries about him not being elite still. Hope to continue seeing him splashing bombs for years to come.
HMs: Kawhi, PG, KD, LeBron, Dame, Luka - all could've made the list if things had broken slightly differently.
Interestingly my top 4 are all bigs. Much maligned, but still dominating.
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo - I had him 3/4 through the RS with Curry and behind Gobert/Jokic. I don't feel his PO run was overall quite as dominant as some seem to, but Curry's was non-existent, Gobert fizzled, and Jokic was just okay in round 2. Overall I think Giannis did all that was asked of him and got the job done after coming up a bit short the last few seasons. Finished very very strong with his Phoenix series. Not the strongest #1 I've ever voted for, but I feel good about him here.
2. Nikola Jokic - A fairly clean #2 in my mind. Great RS and a deserved MVP. Ridiculous performance in round 1. Team fell apart in round 2 and he wasn't immune from that but wasn't the primary cause. Will stay a favorite to watch for a long time for me, truly a unique force in NBA history.
3. Rudy Gobert - #3 vs #4 vs #5 was a tough ordering for me. I went with Rudy. I think he (along with Jokic) has a strong argument for having the best RS on the year. A dominant defensive season, with plenty of metrics pointing towards it being the single best of the 3pt era. Good first round. Couldn't deliver in round 2 vs a strong Clipper offense, but like Jokic above I don't believe most of the failures were on Gobert the individual.
4. Joel Embiid - Like I said, tough decision. Played at a level similar to the above 2 when he played during the RS, but missed a solid chunk of time. Played well in the playoffs, but frankly had his own shortcomings as his team was upset in the 2nd round. The most balanced of all the elite bigs, if he ever has that magical healthy season he could easily go home with the crown.
5. Stephen Curry - Just didn't have the team for it this season, but I think he put to rest any worries about him not being elite still. Hope to continue seeing him splashing bombs for years to come.
HMs: Kawhi, PG, KD, LeBron, Dame, Luka - all could've made the list if things had broken slightly differently.
Interestingly my top 4 are all bigs. Much maligned, but still dominating.
I bought a boat.
Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
Player of the Year
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
2. Nikola Jokic
3. Steph Curry
These three players were head-and-shoulders above everyone else during the season when taking into account availability to play basketball games and level-of-play. All 3 were what I would consider medium to strong MVP Candidates during the regular season with Nikola Jokic playing offense at a level which we may have never seen before--ever. All 3 of these players aren't without weakness and both Giannis and Jokic are players whom I would rather not spend time discussing their weaknesses but rather focus on what made them #1 and #2 respectively.
After a great regular season for Giannis, his 3rd historically great regular season in as many seasons, he was able to maintain his defensive intensity and effort in the post-season while dominating each team he played within 12 feet of the basket on both ends of the court. His two-way impact can't be undersold, nor can his importance to his teams scheme and strategy [regardless of what games against a Hawks team may indicate]. He was finally able to put everything together during the NBA Finals, the largest stage of Basketball in the world [No offense Olympics] and dominate in a way none of us will forget.
The Joker put on a masterclass of offensive prowess this season. His combination of passing pedigree and shot making is unique. His ability to operate all of this away from the rim, opening up space for cutters, is vastly underrated [Similar to Dirk in that sense]. Jokic is a combination of Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash mashed up into a massive body who knows how to play the game of basketball better than anyone and everyone. We saw him struggle some in the post-season, in part because the Nuggets had zero other shot creators on the court, a poor cast around him [Who exactly is a good defender around him? It certainly isn't the invisible Gordon] and no reliable player to share in the bloody massacre which is the Jokic pick-and-roll.
Curry--I'm a believer. The difference between Steph Curry and the next best shooter ever is bigger than any other "Top-2" when comparing other popular attributes. Curry's gravity on a basketball game is still mostly uncaptured by the common and popular statistical analysis we see here on this board and most other places across the web and media outlets. His attitude is contagious and his willing of a dreadful 4-15 men on the roster was something to truly behold. Had Curry worked his Magic in the post-season, I very well may have had him #1 here.
4. Durant
5. Embiid
Everyone was missing time on the Nets yet whenever I watched him [Durant] play I thought his team was going to win the title, even when the big-3 was Durant/Kyrie/Griffin. Before I go further, I'm not a big fan of Durant's game and firmly believe he gets overrated here and on just about every other media outlet--but I loved watching Durant against Milwaukee. Durant is playing, finally, as if he knows he is the best player on the planet, and rightfully so. His scoring was tremendous against a defense in Milwaukee's which was the only team in the playoffs who could have stopped him. If it wasn't for his ingrown toe-nail, they were a betting favorite for the title, and rightfully so.
Embiid has an argument on a per-minute basis as being the best player in the 2021 season. Two-way Center who, like Jokic, doesn't need to clog up the effective areas of the court and can be utilized to be efficient and effective anywhere, with or without the ball. I know a lot of people were championing Simmons as the best defender on the 76ers, but it started with Joel. The 76ers were a fine team, but few players make that team into a title contender and Embiid was able to do so.
Offensive Player of the Year
1. Nikola Jokic
2. Steph Curry
I'm not going to say much here but yeah, when you're a combination of Dirk and Nash then you're the best offensive player in just about every offensive season ever. When you have the most gravity ever and are the best in the world at the most important skill in basketball [Shooting] then you're going to be one of the best as well.
3. Damian Lillard
The Blazers ended up with the lowest Assists in the league, lowest Assists per 100 possessions, middling Free Throw Rate, Middling Oreb%, and below average eFG%--Yet they were the 2nd best offense in the league to the Brooklyn Nets. There is one reason--Damian Lillard.
Defensive Player of the Year
1. Rudy Gobert
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo
3. Draymond Green
Rudy was head-and-shoulders above everyone in the regular season, well, except for LeBron pre-injury
Gobert was warping teams and the wings on that team--not good defenders. It took an all-time great shooting performance for the Clippers to take him out of his zone, and even then he was still a net-positive defender. His mobility combined with his length is unique for his position and his instincts are strong [Not perfect].
Giannis makes so many things difficult for offenses with his switch-ability, rim protection and sheer length and strength combination. We never get to see him fully just be a defensive juggernaut to the extent Gobert is, and I don't want to take anything away from Gobert as he is the DPOY, but man would it be fun to see Giannis play a season in a lesser offensive role.
Draymond is ahead of Embiid in large part because how the **** did the Warriors finish with a top 5 defense? That doesn't make any sense. He had the best defensive game of the season against the Lakers and it solidified him for me.
Rookie of the Year
1. Anthony Edwards
2. LaMelo Ball
Oh ****, this guy is a homer. Well, yeah, but my criteria for Rookie of the Year is simply "Who is the player who showed me the highest, realistic ceiling"--and the answer is Anthony Edwards without hesitation. His ceiling is a #1 option on a title team, and LaMelo and Haliburton simply will never be close to that player. Anthony Edwards games where he put up 40 points were incredible and showed a level of play, both for a scoring prowess and physicality from the 2-guard, that few players ever could do.
3. Tyrese Haliburton
He hit a wall late in the season, in part because playing for the Kings is only a half-step worse than the Timberwolves, but he was magnificent from the get-go. His IQ is high, his limitations are obvious [Lack of strength to guard most 3's] but he will have a long NBA career and productive.
Most Improved Player
1. Joel Embiid
He made the most important leap you can make, from All-NBA level player to "This guy can be a clear #1 on a title team and has no weaknesses offensively". It was surprising to see, and while health will always be his first and last question about how great he can be, he put it together this season.
2. Zach LaVine
He has always been talented but he finally figured out how to actually impact basketball games in a winner manner, which 75% of the league still has no idea how to do.
3. Nobody
Luka, Trae, Bridges and Zion are all too young for me. Impressed by each of them and all of them, sans Bridges, will be MVP candidates in the next 3 seasons or less (Luka already is).
[b]Coach of the Year[b]
1. Nate McMillan
2. Monty Williams
3. Mike Budenholzer
Nate did one of the most difficult things, take over for a team mid-season after a disappointing start and he led a Hawks team deprived of a good 2nd option, to the Eastern Conference Finals. The Biggest overachievers by far this season.
Monty's award started in the bubble and his ability to fuel the younger guys was impressive, whether CP3 had an impact in it or not [He did].
Budenholzer did what he had to do and did exactly what he needed to do. He played his stars more, he tightened his rotation, he had Giannis playing off-ball some more and it resulted in a title. What else was he supposed to do? Absolutely nothing.
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
2. Nikola Jokic
3. Steph Curry
These three players were head-and-shoulders above everyone else during the season when taking into account availability to play basketball games and level-of-play. All 3 were what I would consider medium to strong MVP Candidates during the regular season with Nikola Jokic playing offense at a level which we may have never seen before--ever. All 3 of these players aren't without weakness and both Giannis and Jokic are players whom I would rather not spend time discussing their weaknesses but rather focus on what made them #1 and #2 respectively.
After a great regular season for Giannis, his 3rd historically great regular season in as many seasons, he was able to maintain his defensive intensity and effort in the post-season while dominating each team he played within 12 feet of the basket on both ends of the court. His two-way impact can't be undersold, nor can his importance to his teams scheme and strategy [regardless of what games against a Hawks team may indicate]. He was finally able to put everything together during the NBA Finals, the largest stage of Basketball in the world [No offense Olympics] and dominate in a way none of us will forget.
The Joker put on a masterclass of offensive prowess this season. His combination of passing pedigree and shot making is unique. His ability to operate all of this away from the rim, opening up space for cutters, is vastly underrated [Similar to Dirk in that sense]. Jokic is a combination of Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash mashed up into a massive body who knows how to play the game of basketball better than anyone and everyone. We saw him struggle some in the post-season, in part because the Nuggets had zero other shot creators on the court, a poor cast around him [Who exactly is a good defender around him? It certainly isn't the invisible Gordon] and no reliable player to share in the bloody massacre which is the Jokic pick-and-roll.
Curry--I'm a believer. The difference between Steph Curry and the next best shooter ever is bigger than any other "Top-2" when comparing other popular attributes. Curry's gravity on a basketball game is still mostly uncaptured by the common and popular statistical analysis we see here on this board and most other places across the web and media outlets. His attitude is contagious and his willing of a dreadful 4-15 men on the roster was something to truly behold. Had Curry worked his Magic in the post-season, I very well may have had him #1 here.
4. Durant
5. Embiid
Everyone was missing time on the Nets yet whenever I watched him [Durant] play I thought his team was going to win the title, even when the big-3 was Durant/Kyrie/Griffin. Before I go further, I'm not a big fan of Durant's game and firmly believe he gets overrated here and on just about every other media outlet--but I loved watching Durant against Milwaukee. Durant is playing, finally, as if he knows he is the best player on the planet, and rightfully so. His scoring was tremendous against a defense in Milwaukee's which was the only team in the playoffs who could have stopped him. If it wasn't for his ingrown toe-nail, they were a betting favorite for the title, and rightfully so.
Embiid has an argument on a per-minute basis as being the best player in the 2021 season. Two-way Center who, like Jokic, doesn't need to clog up the effective areas of the court and can be utilized to be efficient and effective anywhere, with or without the ball. I know a lot of people were championing Simmons as the best defender on the 76ers, but it started with Joel. The 76ers were a fine team, but few players make that team into a title contender and Embiid was able to do so.
Offensive Player of the Year
1. Nikola Jokic
2. Steph Curry
I'm not going to say much here but yeah, when you're a combination of Dirk and Nash then you're the best offensive player in just about every offensive season ever. When you have the most gravity ever and are the best in the world at the most important skill in basketball [Shooting] then you're going to be one of the best as well.
3. Damian Lillard
The Blazers ended up with the lowest Assists in the league, lowest Assists per 100 possessions, middling Free Throw Rate, Middling Oreb%, and below average eFG%--Yet they were the 2nd best offense in the league to the Brooklyn Nets. There is one reason--Damian Lillard.
Defensive Player of the Year
1. Rudy Gobert
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo
3. Draymond Green
Rudy was head-and-shoulders above everyone in the regular season, well, except for LeBron pre-injury

Gobert was warping teams and the wings on that team--not good defenders. It took an all-time great shooting performance for the Clippers to take him out of his zone, and even then he was still a net-positive defender. His mobility combined with his length is unique for his position and his instincts are strong [Not perfect].
Giannis makes so many things difficult for offenses with his switch-ability, rim protection and sheer length and strength combination. We never get to see him fully just be a defensive juggernaut to the extent Gobert is, and I don't want to take anything away from Gobert as he is the DPOY, but man would it be fun to see Giannis play a season in a lesser offensive role.
Draymond is ahead of Embiid in large part because how the **** did the Warriors finish with a top 5 defense? That doesn't make any sense. He had the best defensive game of the season against the Lakers and it solidified him for me.
Rookie of the Year
1. Anthony Edwards
2. LaMelo Ball
Oh ****, this guy is a homer. Well, yeah, but my criteria for Rookie of the Year is simply "Who is the player who showed me the highest, realistic ceiling"--and the answer is Anthony Edwards without hesitation. His ceiling is a #1 option on a title team, and LaMelo and Haliburton simply will never be close to that player. Anthony Edwards games where he put up 40 points were incredible and showed a level of play, both for a scoring prowess and physicality from the 2-guard, that few players ever could do.
3. Tyrese Haliburton
He hit a wall late in the season, in part because playing for the Kings is only a half-step worse than the Timberwolves, but he was magnificent from the get-go. His IQ is high, his limitations are obvious [Lack of strength to guard most 3's] but he will have a long NBA career and productive.
Most Improved Player
1. Joel Embiid
He made the most important leap you can make, from All-NBA level player to "This guy can be a clear #1 on a title team and has no weaknesses offensively". It was surprising to see, and while health will always be his first and last question about how great he can be, he put it together this season.
2. Zach LaVine
He has always been talented but he finally figured out how to actually impact basketball games in a winner manner, which 75% of the league still has no idea how to do.
3. Nobody
Luka, Trae, Bridges and Zion are all too young for me. Impressed by each of them and all of them, sans Bridges, will be MVP candidates in the next 3 seasons or less (Luka already is).
[b]Coach of the Year[b]
1. Nate McMillan
2. Monty Williams
3. Mike Budenholzer
Nate did one of the most difficult things, take over for a team mid-season after a disappointing start and he led a Hawks team deprived of a good 2nd option, to the Eastern Conference Finals. The Biggest overachievers by far this season.
Monty's award started in the bubble and his ability to fuel the younger guys was impressive, whether CP3 had an impact in it or not [He did].
Budenholzer did what he had to do and did exactly what he needed to do. He played his stars more, he tightened his rotation, he had Giannis playing off-ball some more and it resulted in a title. What else was he supposed to do? Absolutely nothing.
Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
POY
1. Giannis
Top 3 player in the regular season htroughout. Only player who challenged him as the best player during the playoffs was kawhi who got hurt. Best argument against him is he missed 2 games, but his peers all missed the conference finals so...
2. Jokic
Clearly best player in the regular season. Solid playoffs. Knoc on him is defense as a center.
3. Curry
Top 3 player in the regular season, probablyt 2nd, had a historically great carry job taking a 20 win team to a 48 win pace with him and only got better as the season progressed. Warriors were a fifty four win team for the hoestretch and he played great in two play in games that work as a sorta first round. Mssing the playoffs eeps him from being higher, but he easily coul dhavr taken no.1 if they beat memphis.
4. Embid
Played like a top five player in the rs but missed half of it. Was able to stay kinda healthy in the playoffs and was good on both ends.
Kawhi
Played a lot of minuites, good playmaking, elite scoring, good defense, arguably best player in the playoffs till his injury. Good regular season.
OPOY
Jokic
Was easily the best player in the regular season tjanks to his offense.
Luka
Almost knocked off a stacked clippers team on his offense(with help from some hot shooting from hsi teamamtes).
Curry
Was the secxond best player in the regular season, but we didn't see a big playoff sample.
DPOY
1. Giannis
We saw him play great defensively in b2b regular seasons being the best or second best defender in the league, but, unlike gobert, we've seen him anchor historically great postseason defense and it's arguable his versatility as a defender which is goat level would have made the jazz's defense more postseason resilient. I still think gobert is a atg defender and I don't think his team falling apart vs the best spacing ever and not good perimiter help is his fault, but it speaks to the league now making kg types more valuable than duncan types.
2. Gobert
While he's super versatile historically, in this league he's the equiavlent of a mutembo which clearly isn't as effective on a team level in the playoffs. Still the second best postseaon defender and easily the ebst regular season defender
3. Draymond
Didn't make the playoffs but anchored a top six defense with the dubs
1. Giannis
Top 3 player in the regular season htroughout. Only player who challenged him as the best player during the playoffs was kawhi who got hurt. Best argument against him is he missed 2 games, but his peers all missed the conference finals so...
2. Jokic
Clearly best player in the regular season. Solid playoffs. Knoc on him is defense as a center.
3. Curry
Top 3 player in the regular season, probablyt 2nd, had a historically great carry job taking a 20 win team to a 48 win pace with him and only got better as the season progressed. Warriors were a fifty four win team for the hoestretch and he played great in two play in games that work as a sorta first round. Mssing the playoffs eeps him from being higher, but he easily coul dhavr taken no.1 if they beat memphis.
4. Embid
Played like a top five player in the rs but missed half of it. Was able to stay kinda healthy in the playoffs and was good on both ends.
Kawhi
Played a lot of minuites, good playmaking, elite scoring, good defense, arguably best player in the playoffs till his injury. Good regular season.
OPOY
Jokic
Was easily the best player in the regular season tjanks to his offense.
Luka
Almost knocked off a stacked clippers team on his offense(with help from some hot shooting from hsi teamamtes).
Curry
Was the secxond best player in the regular season, but we didn't see a big playoff sample.
DPOY
1. Giannis
We saw him play great defensively in b2b regular seasons being the best or second best defender in the league, but, unlike gobert, we've seen him anchor historically great postseason defense and it's arguable his versatility as a defender which is goat level would have made the jazz's defense more postseason resilient. I still think gobert is a atg defender and I don't think his team falling apart vs the best spacing ever and not good perimiter help is his fault, but it speaks to the league now making kg types more valuable than duncan types.
2. Gobert
While he's super versatile historically, in this league he's the equiavlent of a mutembo which clearly isn't as effective on a team level in the playoffs. Still the second best postseaon defender and easily the ebst regular season defender
3. Draymond
Didn't make the playoffs but anchored a top six defense with the dubs
Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
POY
1. Nikola Jokic
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo
3. Steph Curry
4. Rudy Gobert
5. Joel Embiid
Nikola goes first. He dominated this year in pretty much all advanced numbers throughout the season, and didn’t get worse in the playoffs. W/S, PER, +/-, VORP etc. all have him at the top. His popularity was pretty high as well as he received MVP recognition and was thought to be the best player in the RS. His defense is around the 80th percentile by CraftedNBA, Defense EPM, etc. While his defense isn’t at the top of the league, it doesn’t really stop the Nuggets from winning.
His playoffs wasn’t ultra special, though he didn’t have much of a chance to display his work. The team was missing Murray and MPJ fell back to earth vs Suns.
Giannis - Finally, a ring. Survived Kevin Durant and the Nets playing out of their minds, which could’ve turned into an upset. A lot of people point to Giannis’s weaknesses and lack of a diverse game, but also fail to realize that he consistently produces and cannot really be stopped 0-3 feet from the basket, where he generally puts up extremely high FG%’s. He really started improving deeper in the playoffs, before his big finals, which vaulted him near the top. Almost considered him for #1, but I think that would’ve involved significant winning bias. Jokic was thought to be better for about 90% of my year.
Steph - A scoring title type year. The way he easily gets his hoops still amazes me. A lot of GSW’s problems are working around Wiggins or Oubre, who supposedly put up scoring numbers, but really appear like filler players and GSW ended up failing offensively. With some better picks for filling up the scoring, GSW might’ve had a decent seed in the playoffs. This was the worst roster in the league, and GSW did a poor job of improving.
Gobert - A lot of the key to seeing Gobert is also getting that the Jazz does well offensively with him on the court. By 82games, the offense is around 7 points higher per 100 with Gobert on court. He’s great on both ends of the floor, though his defense is where he routinely gets his best defender rep. Led the Jazz to a great year, and I felt he deserved the lion’s share of the credit.
Embiid - And the big guy wraps up my Top 5. Embiid has always been highly dangerous to me, just a conventional big man that gets everything done on both ends of the floor. The numbers this year and his observed impact are supportive of him being a Top 5 player. His only problem is his durability, but he performed really well in spite of facing a major injury issue vs the Hawks, which points to his mental toughness.
HM: Kevin Durant, Damian Liillard.
Durant’s still the GUY in many people’s eyes. That is, he’s thought of being the best in the league when he’s really on. His season was unfortunately injury ridden and too inconsistent for me, but he was really special in the playoffs. Lillard, on the other hand, is a blazers star that I feel should get a Top 5 vote at some point in his career (or maybe twice) as he’s on the borderline, but gets outshined by about 5-10 other guys in every year. Lillard is a great offensive threat, a step down from Curry, but still a legend of the game that makes the Blazers go. He deserves some respect for playing with the Blazers organization for as long as he has.
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OPOY
Curry
Lillard
Jokic
With Luka being really close. These three typically produce night in and night out offensively, and if you just isolate offense, I am fairly certain these three can outdo anyone. Curry is the most efficient, LIllard the most explosive, and Jokic the greatest all round talent.
DPOY
Rudy Gobert
Clint Capela
Joel Embiid
No to Simmons, I think, who has proven overall he can look terrible when faced with good teams. Gobert leads the numbers and the eye test, Capela looks superior to everyone in the playoffs, and I would give Philly’s credit to Embiid instead of Simmons. George, Giannis, Bam, Lebron, Davis are amongst the other great defenders.
COY
Tom Thibs
Monty Williams
Nate McMillan
Thibs is the best in the league. He really has an eye out for turning a team around, and can bring a collection of poor pieces together. Monty and Nate go next, both big winners of this season in proving they can really get it done. Nate’s impact is more obvious, while Monty should get a ton of credit for developing young talent.
EOY
Schlenk, ATL
Marks, BRK
Jones, PHX
Atlanta wins every word in terms of FO/Coaching, I think, for putting together something very nice. They’ve essentially proven they might win the title some day, and Trae Young stil has leftover potential. Marks did a great job considering where he started off, and after that there’s a slight drop off to Jones.
ROY
Anthony Edwards
LaMelo Ball
Tyrese Haliburton
Edwards with great production in the 2nd half of the year, Ball who shows tons of promise as a PG and Haliburton who has advanced stats fans much impressed. I actually don’t see any of these rookies as surefire legends, but who really knows in Season 1? Edwards and Haliburton have poor organizations to work around, while Ball might have the greatest chance to truly develop into something nice.
MIP
Julius Randle
Michael Porter Jr.
DeAndre Ayton
Randle and Porter are clearly the most improved. Randle exploded into the all star season, well developed by Thibs’ presence, while MPJ saw a great year in his progress. Ayton is last, who I think developed the maturity to be a star in the league, and when he’s on, he looks great on both ends of the floor.
1. Nikola Jokic
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo
3. Steph Curry
4. Rudy Gobert
5. Joel Embiid
Nikola goes first. He dominated this year in pretty much all advanced numbers throughout the season, and didn’t get worse in the playoffs. W/S, PER, +/-, VORP etc. all have him at the top. His popularity was pretty high as well as he received MVP recognition and was thought to be the best player in the RS. His defense is around the 80th percentile by CraftedNBA, Defense EPM, etc. While his defense isn’t at the top of the league, it doesn’t really stop the Nuggets from winning.
His playoffs wasn’t ultra special, though he didn’t have much of a chance to display his work. The team was missing Murray and MPJ fell back to earth vs Suns.
Giannis - Finally, a ring. Survived Kevin Durant and the Nets playing out of their minds, which could’ve turned into an upset. A lot of people point to Giannis’s weaknesses and lack of a diverse game, but also fail to realize that he consistently produces and cannot really be stopped 0-3 feet from the basket, where he generally puts up extremely high FG%’s. He really started improving deeper in the playoffs, before his big finals, which vaulted him near the top. Almost considered him for #1, but I think that would’ve involved significant winning bias. Jokic was thought to be better for about 90% of my year.
Steph - A scoring title type year. The way he easily gets his hoops still amazes me. A lot of GSW’s problems are working around Wiggins or Oubre, who supposedly put up scoring numbers, but really appear like filler players and GSW ended up failing offensively. With some better picks for filling up the scoring, GSW might’ve had a decent seed in the playoffs. This was the worst roster in the league, and GSW did a poor job of improving.
Gobert - A lot of the key to seeing Gobert is also getting that the Jazz does well offensively with him on the court. By 82games, the offense is around 7 points higher per 100 with Gobert on court. He’s great on both ends of the floor, though his defense is where he routinely gets his best defender rep. Led the Jazz to a great year, and I felt he deserved the lion’s share of the credit.
Embiid - And the big guy wraps up my Top 5. Embiid has always been highly dangerous to me, just a conventional big man that gets everything done on both ends of the floor. The numbers this year and his observed impact are supportive of him being a Top 5 player. His only problem is his durability, but he performed really well in spite of facing a major injury issue vs the Hawks, which points to his mental toughness.
HM: Kevin Durant, Damian Liillard.
Durant’s still the GUY in many people’s eyes. That is, he’s thought of being the best in the league when he’s really on. His season was unfortunately injury ridden and too inconsistent for me, but he was really special in the playoffs. Lillard, on the other hand, is a blazers star that I feel should get a Top 5 vote at some point in his career (or maybe twice) as he’s on the borderline, but gets outshined by about 5-10 other guys in every year. Lillard is a great offensive threat, a step down from Curry, but still a legend of the game that makes the Blazers go. He deserves some respect for playing with the Blazers organization for as long as he has.
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OPOY
Curry
Lillard
Jokic
With Luka being really close. These three typically produce night in and night out offensively, and if you just isolate offense, I am fairly certain these three can outdo anyone. Curry is the most efficient, LIllard the most explosive, and Jokic the greatest all round talent.
DPOY
Rudy Gobert
Clint Capela
Joel Embiid
No to Simmons, I think, who has proven overall he can look terrible when faced with good teams. Gobert leads the numbers and the eye test, Capela looks superior to everyone in the playoffs, and I would give Philly’s credit to Embiid instead of Simmons. George, Giannis, Bam, Lebron, Davis are amongst the other great defenders.
COY
Tom Thibs
Monty Williams
Nate McMillan
Thibs is the best in the league. He really has an eye out for turning a team around, and can bring a collection of poor pieces together. Monty and Nate go next, both big winners of this season in proving they can really get it done. Nate’s impact is more obvious, while Monty should get a ton of credit for developing young talent.
EOY
Schlenk, ATL
Marks, BRK
Jones, PHX
Atlanta wins every word in terms of FO/Coaching, I think, for putting together something very nice. They’ve essentially proven they might win the title some day, and Trae Young stil has leftover potential. Marks did a great job considering where he started off, and after that there’s a slight drop off to Jones.
ROY
Anthony Edwards
LaMelo Ball
Tyrese Haliburton
Edwards with great production in the 2nd half of the year, Ball who shows tons of promise as a PG and Haliburton who has advanced stats fans much impressed. I actually don’t see any of these rookies as surefire legends, but who really knows in Season 1? Edwards and Haliburton have poor organizations to work around, while Ball might have the greatest chance to truly develop into something nice.
MIP
Julius Randle
Michael Porter Jr.
DeAndre Ayton
Randle and Porter are clearly the most improved. Randle exploded into the all star season, well developed by Thibs’ presence, while MPJ saw a great year in his progress. Ayton is last, who I think developed the maturity to be a star in the league, and when he’s on, he looks great on both ends of the floor.
Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
POY
1. Giannis -- Was one of the 3 best players in the RS and clearly the best player by a large margin in the playoffs. Don't really see another choice here at all.
2. Jokic -- clearly the best RS player and hampered by injuries and poor roster construction in the playoffs.
3. Embiid -- He gets the nod over Curry because he played in the playoffs and once again his team dominated the games when he was on the court.
4. Curry -- answered any doubts if this guy was still an MVP level player. Breathtaking offensive season considering how little offensive talent was around him. Brilliance.
5. Luka -- toughest call and maybe the wrong one. But he was right outside my top 5 in the RS and once again he showed that he is born for the playoffs. Mavs won the minutes that all three of Kawhi, PG, and Luka were on the court. His team wasn't good enough yet, but he absolutely is. I've been hesitant as is my norm on embracing just how good this guy is and can be, starting to become convinced.
HM Kawhi, Dame, Gobert
DPOY
1. Gobert -- simply the best defender in the world on a night by night basis
2. Draymond -- the smartest defender in the world, who showed when still motivated he's as good as it gets save Rudy
3. Embiid -- for all the love Simmons and Thybulle rightfully get, this is the guy who is the highest impact defender
OPOY
1. Jokic -- just a stupid year in terms of scoring and creating
2. Curry -- again just showed what a special scorer/shooter he is
3. Giannis -- yep, he's that good of an offensive force despite the narrative. 28 and 6 on 63%TS followed up by 30/5 on 60% in the playoffs and his team offense was terrific all regular season
ROY
1. Haliburton just a good, already winning player immediately. Doesn't have the flashy plays of Ball or the numbers of Edwards, but this guy was the best rookie over the course of the year.
2. Edwards -- bad to start, but came on extremely strong late and playing every game gives him the edge over Ball
3. Ball -- basically the last guy left. I'm intrigued by his talent and upside, but I vote on your year not your future so 3rd.
COY
1. Monty -- just a masterclass of getting the best out of your young players while introducing in 2 key veterans into major roles. Exactly the kind of man you want running your team
2. Snyder -- this was as well oiled a machine as you could ever want. Eventually injuries to his guards caught up to him, but this was the classic the sum is well more than the parts and Snyder deserves a bunch of credit for that.
3. McMillan -- inherited a mess with injuries and personalities and righted the ship and got that team further than anyone had a right to expect
EOY
1. Jones -- no brainer here. Paul and Crowder were huge additions that many criticized at the time considering Paul's age and money. Didn't shy away from the risk and potential ridicule.
2. Horst -- and if the governor's kid didn't wreck the Bogdan deal he is number 1. But getting Jrue was enormous and not worrying that people thought you paid too much. Which led to the Giannis re-signing. Then he managed to add Tucker by a creative 1st round for 2nd round swap we had never seen before and he managed to duck tax knowing paying repeater taxes is much harder in his market.
3. Presti -- yes it matters mostly what you do with the picks, but you want to take, outsource a tank, and collect asset after asset and without taking on just a whole lot of terrible money considering. Masterclass in collecting assets.
6MOY
1. Ingles -- this was the best bench player in Utah hands down. Greatest shooter in the world, great playmaker, better defender than he looks, amazing trashtalker.
2. Tim Hardaway. Efficient shooting, okay defense, played whatever role was asked, leader on the team, just total professional.
3. Thad Young -- very hidden terrific season as a playmaker for a bad Bulls team
MIP
1. Randle -- sometimes the obvious is just right. Terrible in the playoffs, but that regular season was incredible and none of saw that coming
2. Jaylen Brown -- took a major step forward as an offensive player. Becoming a true running mate to Tatum
3. Mikal Bridges -- elite wing defender, who found his exact niche offensively as a tremendous shooter and cutter and a guy who never turns it over or tries to do too much.
1. Giannis -- Was one of the 3 best players in the RS and clearly the best player by a large margin in the playoffs. Don't really see another choice here at all.
2. Jokic -- clearly the best RS player and hampered by injuries and poor roster construction in the playoffs.
3. Embiid -- He gets the nod over Curry because he played in the playoffs and once again his team dominated the games when he was on the court.
4. Curry -- answered any doubts if this guy was still an MVP level player. Breathtaking offensive season considering how little offensive talent was around him. Brilliance.
5. Luka -- toughest call and maybe the wrong one. But he was right outside my top 5 in the RS and once again he showed that he is born for the playoffs. Mavs won the minutes that all three of Kawhi, PG, and Luka were on the court. His team wasn't good enough yet, but he absolutely is. I've been hesitant as is my norm on embracing just how good this guy is and can be, starting to become convinced.
HM Kawhi, Dame, Gobert
DPOY
1. Gobert -- simply the best defender in the world on a night by night basis
2. Draymond -- the smartest defender in the world, who showed when still motivated he's as good as it gets save Rudy
3. Embiid -- for all the love Simmons and Thybulle rightfully get, this is the guy who is the highest impact defender
OPOY
1. Jokic -- just a stupid year in terms of scoring and creating
2. Curry -- again just showed what a special scorer/shooter he is
3. Giannis -- yep, he's that good of an offensive force despite the narrative. 28 and 6 on 63%TS followed up by 30/5 on 60% in the playoffs and his team offense was terrific all regular season
ROY
1. Haliburton just a good, already winning player immediately. Doesn't have the flashy plays of Ball or the numbers of Edwards, but this guy was the best rookie over the course of the year.
2. Edwards -- bad to start, but came on extremely strong late and playing every game gives him the edge over Ball
3. Ball -- basically the last guy left. I'm intrigued by his talent and upside, but I vote on your year not your future so 3rd.
COY
1. Monty -- just a masterclass of getting the best out of your young players while introducing in 2 key veterans into major roles. Exactly the kind of man you want running your team
2. Snyder -- this was as well oiled a machine as you could ever want. Eventually injuries to his guards caught up to him, but this was the classic the sum is well more than the parts and Snyder deserves a bunch of credit for that.
3. McMillan -- inherited a mess with injuries and personalities and righted the ship and got that team further than anyone had a right to expect
EOY
1. Jones -- no brainer here. Paul and Crowder were huge additions that many criticized at the time considering Paul's age and money. Didn't shy away from the risk and potential ridicule.
2. Horst -- and if the governor's kid didn't wreck the Bogdan deal he is number 1. But getting Jrue was enormous and not worrying that people thought you paid too much. Which led to the Giannis re-signing. Then he managed to add Tucker by a creative 1st round for 2nd round swap we had never seen before and he managed to duck tax knowing paying repeater taxes is much harder in his market.
3. Presti -- yes it matters mostly what you do with the picks, but you want to take, outsource a tank, and collect asset after asset and without taking on just a whole lot of terrible money considering. Masterclass in collecting assets.
6MOY
1. Ingles -- this was the best bench player in Utah hands down. Greatest shooter in the world, great playmaker, better defender than he looks, amazing trashtalker.
2. Tim Hardaway. Efficient shooting, okay defense, played whatever role was asked, leader on the team, just total professional.
3. Thad Young -- very hidden terrific season as a playmaker for a bad Bulls team
MIP
1. Randle -- sometimes the obvious is just right. Terrible in the playoffs, but that regular season was incredible and none of saw that coming
2. Jaylen Brown -- took a major step forward as an offensive player. Becoming a true running mate to Tatum
3. Mikal Bridges -- elite wing defender, who found his exact niche offensively as a tremendous shooter and cutter and a guy who never turns it over or tries to do too much.
ThunderBolt wrote:I’m going to let some of you in on a little secret I learned on realgm. If you don’t like a thread, not only do you not have to comment but you don’t even have to open it and read it. You’re welcome.
Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
POY-
1st-Giannis: i have him, embiid and curry as collective 2nd to jokic 1st in regular season
had he lost to nets in second round i would have said jokic is still ahead
but giannis reached a easily higher level of impact (imo) against the suns that jokic did, joker was great against a meh team with very weak defense (blazers) but that doesnt move the needle nearly as much to me as dominating the suns in both ends of the court did with giannis
top 3-4 regular season, top 1 full playoffs, top 1 best play-off series
2-jokic: i put some value in destroying the blazers but not so much, and he was slowed down vs Phoenix very significatively
top 1 regular season but his best play-off series is not even in the short list of best ones these playoffs (giannis, dursnt, kawhi, doncic or even george, booker and young may have had more impressive series than either of jokic two (i am very low on beating down blazers defense)
3-Kawhi: controversial pick (maybe?) but i think his regular season went under the radar, didnt miss as many games compared to others (durant, embiid) and played (and more importantly dominated) in the playoffs against dallas
borderline top 5 regular season + one of the best playoffs showing against dallas. (imo slightly better than durant series)
i didnt know how to evaluate kawhi missed playoffs games vs durant or embiid regular season ones.
the determining factor is that i think he played better against dallas than durant did vs bucks or embiid vs hawks
4- luka doncic: i think after giannis vs suns (clear best series to me) luka (vs clippers), dursnt (vs bucks) and kawhi (vs dallas) played the best basketball in the playoffs. (HM: to booker, trae, jokic and others)
of those 3 luka had much better availability than durant, the comparision with kawhi is really close but i think kawhi was marginally better
5-Embiid: as much as he didnt have his best level in the playoffs he still had one of the best regular seasons and showed some great resiliency to being apparently hurt in the playoffs, i dont think neither his reg season or playoffs were far off from jokic
i dont think he was worse than curry in regular season and it would be unfair to punish him for relatively underperforming when curry didnt even play there
HM: curry and durant barely miss my cut, gobert, lillard and paul george round out my top 10
1st-Giannis: i have him, embiid and curry as collective 2nd to jokic 1st in regular season
had he lost to nets in second round i would have said jokic is still ahead
but giannis reached a easily higher level of impact (imo) against the suns that jokic did, joker was great against a meh team with very weak defense (blazers) but that doesnt move the needle nearly as much to me as dominating the suns in both ends of the court did with giannis
top 3-4 regular season, top 1 full playoffs, top 1 best play-off series
2-jokic: i put some value in destroying the blazers but not so much, and he was slowed down vs Phoenix very significatively
top 1 regular season but his best play-off series is not even in the short list of best ones these playoffs (giannis, dursnt, kawhi, doncic or even george, booker and young may have had more impressive series than either of jokic two (i am very low on beating down blazers defense)
3-Kawhi: controversial pick (maybe?) but i think his regular season went under the radar, didnt miss as many games compared to others (durant, embiid) and played (and more importantly dominated) in the playoffs against dallas
borderline top 5 regular season + one of the best playoffs showing against dallas. (imo slightly better than durant series)
i didnt know how to evaluate kawhi missed playoffs games vs durant or embiid regular season ones.
the determining factor is that i think he played better against dallas than durant did vs bucks or embiid vs hawks
4- luka doncic: i think after giannis vs suns (clear best series to me) luka (vs clippers), dursnt (vs bucks) and kawhi (vs dallas) played the best basketball in the playoffs. (HM: to booker, trae, jokic and others)
of those 3 luka had much better availability than durant, the comparision with kawhi is really close but i think kawhi was marginally better
5-Embiid: as much as he didnt have his best level in the playoffs he still had one of the best regular seasons and showed some great resiliency to being apparently hurt in the playoffs, i dont think neither his reg season or playoffs were far off from jokic
i dont think he was worse than curry in regular season and it would be unfair to punish him for relatively underperforming when curry didnt even play there
HM: curry and durant barely miss my cut, gobert, lillard and paul george round out my top 10
Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
Player of the Year
Joel Embiid – This is kind of nuts I'm going with this vote cause I did not expect it. I thought Embiid looked incredible from the eye test. It seemed like he could hit shots from anywhere and his stats underrated him. Then I actually looked at his stats and holy crap…if you replaced Embiid’s name with like Shaq you could wouldn’t question the statline (outside of Embiid being able to hit 3s and free throws). I mean Embiid is SO scary as a scorer now. Here is the thing, I think a lot of people looked at Embiid as “injured” – and I have to say, it doesn’t matter. Embiid was incredible with one knee, we don’t even have to play the hypothetical health game, as he was as an injured person – his post season stats are the same as his RS. He was dominating the Hawks with his teammates not being able to hit anything (Seth Curry was his 2nd best player in a few games). Embiid did phase out in the 4th quarter, but hey – Luka, Giannis, Curry and Jokic himself all do after carrying heavy loads. Fact is, Embiid was a stud during the RS, and even with a torn knee was the exact same in the post season – and really only lost because his team just played terribly. This is a very hard POY for me and I might regret this vote, but my brain is saying I should go with Embiid, and that I was picking Nikola because I stubbornly said that’s the guy this year. Embiid was also the best defender on the Sixers, and a better defender than any of the POY contenders (unless you have Gobert as one).
Nikola Jokic – His regular season is just so dominating, it’s very hard for me to not project that his PS stats underrate his ability. He was slowed down by Phoenix, but by the same note his teammates didn’t do much to help on offense. Still, I don’t want to go down too much hypothetical especially since his previous post seasons haven’t been MUCH better than what he did this year. Overall, he is undeniably resilient still and his APG in the post season is not indicative to how important his passing is. I was shocked he only had 2.5 turnovers (Embiid for comparisons sake had 3.8 which is by far his biggest weakness). I don’t think his defense is still that much of a problem, but Embiid and Giannis are big time players on that end still – so that is value left off the table.
Giannis Antetokounmpo – Part of me felt peer pressured in putting Giannis, because I actually thought he might end up 6th (I have 6 contenders this year). I try not to take into account getting deep into the post season as since that can be out of a players hand (I do welcome the bigger sample size though). I thought his regular season was CRIMINALLY underrated – and of course now that he has a ring, all of a sudden he’s a top 3 RS guy. Where was his MVP support this season?! Anyway, I think Giannis’ playoff dominance is a bit over blown – but he did have an excellent one. I think a lot of Giannis weaknesses comes from poor coaching decisions, because offensively he is pretty beastly in the paint but the guy is asked to create too much. Once that was fixed up his scoring averages are to where a player of his caliber should be. I loved his defense this season, and thought he stepped it up the later he went – but he’s more of an all-defense guy to me than a DPOY. I have perhaps 4 guys ahead of him in DPOY at the very least. While I did feel peer pressured to rank him high, another part of me might be too stubborn to give Giannis a good reevaluation. Looking at it, he does compare favorably well to the remaining players and even Jokic. I actually have a hard time seeing what makes him better than Embiid, as his only strengths over Embiid are not that significant.
Stephen Curry – This might be his best season, which made it weird for me to put 3 guys above him. Though I am not super high on Curry as a peak player in general. I think even if Curry underachieved in the post season, his scoring would still be a decent amount better than Luka’s – and what he lacks in Luka’s brilliant playmaking he makes up for it with incredible range and off ball play. I also think Curry’s defensive edge over Luka is big enough to be considered.
Luka Doncic – This was razor close between Kawhi and him. I wish at the time I jotted down who I thought was better because it was going back and forth. Ultimately, I’m going with Luka’s sweet playmaking ability and his feel for the game Is just so far ahead of Kawhi’s. I’m also considering that Luka went up against some hard defenders, and his team is not as talented as Leonard’s. In addition, Luka was a better scorer than Kawhi during the RS which is Kawhi’s biggest strength.
Thought Kawhi Leonard was dynamite and would have loved to see more of him, but from what I’ve seen I’m not entirely sure if he’s above Luka. But who knows, on any given season he could be better than even guys like Curry or Giannis. I love Gobert and am a believer, but I do associate POY with best player, and I do not think Gobert is a top 5 guy – but I would certainly consider him a top ten guy or a contender for it.
Durant, James, Davis and Harden do not make my list because they did not play enough games. I do NOT care about totality of games (I basically rate someone who played 60 games vs 72 games the exact same) – but I care about sample size. If a player doesn’t hit a threshold, he’s not eligible for me.
I realized that my top 5 could go in any other. And I realized that if we omitted Giannis, no one would have anything negative to say about what order the top 5 would be. Giannis seems to be the guy you “have” to put in, or a few posters will get really pissy – but I think he is on the same level as the others, which means it’s reasonable for him to be #1 and it’s reasonable for him to be #5.
This was the hardest POY I’ve done, not just for the top 5 votes but the other categories as well.
Offensive Player of the Year
Nikola Jokic – One of the best passing seasons ever. Jokic scoring went up versus his previous seasons. Love the way he can score from anywhere on the court while not being ball dominant. Good post season run, but obviously not as good as what he did in the playoffs. I think lack of offensive help played a role. Even with his scoring down he’s still a great passing threat, albeit his APG went down a lot as well.
Steph Curry – This was another god like season for Steph, the best one he’s had in a long time. Him vs Doncic is a coin flip. It’s difficult because Curry didn’t make the post season. So does putting Curry over Luka reward Curry for essentially not going to the playoffs and getting slowed down, or does giving it to Luka punish Curry for not having a team good enough to make the post season? I’ve changed my vote back and forth a lot, but I’m going with Curry for now. If I had to project, I would assume even if his game takes a hit in the post season, it might be around where Luka is anyway. Luka is more resilient, but Curry is starting from a higher point.
Luka Doncic - Luka had an incredible series against the Clippers who have a lot of great defensive wings. Luka still managed to volume score on league average while putting over 35 points and double-digit assists. He’s a great conductor, his team was a top ten offense, after hitting the #1 offense last year without much help.
Defensive Player of the Year
Rudy Gobert – Anchored the Jazz to a 1st seed and the best defense. People greatly overlook how poor the Jazz’s defense is. Someone like Ingles is arguably the 2nd or 3rd best defender on the Jazz. The Clippers downed the Jazz with 3s, but obviously those 3s were that open because the perimeter defense was that bad. Jordan Clarkson, injured Mike Conley, Donovan Mitchell, Bojan – it’s pretty miserable line up. Gobert had the stats to back him up, he was the best defender in the league – just like some offensive players need help on offense, give Gobert another good defender and that Clipper series goes quite differently.
Draymond Green – Glad he got some recognition this season. He played pretty well. No one has really emerged to surpass Green yet. Play-In games were a sign that he can raise his level of play in post season like situations still.
Clint Capella – Originally written in Embiid with a paragraph debating how close it is between him and Giannis. Finalizing my list, I think Clint Capella may have been more impressive defensively. The Hawks were not a good defensive team, but they probably would be the worst if Clint was not on the squad. Galanari, Huerter, Bogdan, Young is not a good defensive combo. Stats seem to love Capella as well.
Rookie of the Year
Tyrese Haliburton – His stats are pretty comparable to Ball’s if not slightly better. I think people just fell in love with Ball. Ball came in with hype and he plays a pleasing style of basketball. But he’s really not any more effective than Tyrese. Strange thing is Tyrese played more games also, and people still went with Ball despite not having better stats (I’m not someone who cares much about games played past a certain mark but others penalize players very heavily for missing games).
LaMelo Ball – Getting a bit overhyped, even saw him compared to Luka when their stats are not that close. LaMelo was still an excellent rookie (I thought he would suck), about as good as Haliburton.
Isaiah Stewart – Very interested in where his career goes. Love his build, 6’8 center with great athleticism. His defense is really legit, saw a few games of him and he was blocking the ball into his teammates hands to start the fast break. Plays within himself on offense and has a good feel where to be pretty early in his career. I think he is very comfortably better than Edwards, who wasn’t much of a good player at all – just a high usage highlight guy with a high draft pick. (not saying I’m low on him as a prospect, but I hate the idea that ROY goes to any top pick who puts up points)
Most Improved Player
Joel Embiid – His shot making ability is hitting all time for a center. Not many centers are as good of a scorer as Embiid now. Before he was a problem, now he is unguardable.
Zach Lavine – Huge scoring spike.
Mikel Bridges – Looks seasoned now. Love his movement without the ball. Great cutter and in transition – his shot making is improved as well.
As a rule of thumb I don’t give MIP to 2nd year players, so Michael Porter Jr is not eligible. A lot of Ayton’s improvement came from a change in role as well as now CP3 hooking him up. Ayton was pretty much used as an under the basket force as opposed to a guy who creates his own offense. Still very good, but also way more limited than what most people realize. Jaylen Brown is a good mention, but his improvement seems a bit more gradual. I actually really wanted to vote for Clint Capella here, offensively he’s not improved at all, but his defense is really something this year. Blake Griffin is an interesting player, as he was not a factor for a long time – but I’m not sure how to factor in players who barely played in previous seasons for MIP. I do not think Julius Randle is that much improved and wasn’t surprised that he was dreadful in the playoffs, as the things that are bad about him have fundamentally stayed the same.
Sixth Man of the Year
Joe Ingles – Swiss army knife, he was a great point-forward for the Jazz. Not sure why he didn’t play more minutes in the post season.
Thad Young – Great defensive player who can exploit his smaller size against other power forwards when he’s on offense.
Derrick Rose – Was very much the focal point of the Knicks offense in the post season – which isn’t saying much, but quite the responsibility for a bench player. All and all, he didn’t do bad – about as good as someone like Tim Hardaway did but without Luka to take pressure off him. His playmaking seals the deal.
Jordan Clarkson’s scoring is not good enough to over come these other guys. Rose does what he does but better and he’s more versatile and more of a leader. Thybulle is an interesting contender, but he is very young and as a result he wasn’t very in the earlier parts of the season.
Coach of the Year
Nate McMillan – Taking over a struggling team mid-season and turning it around is the ultimate feat for a coach. Not only that, but they were a threat in the post season, winning two series – one which was supposed to be competitive (it wasn’t) and another one they were supposed to lose (they didn’t).
Monty Williams – Put all the young pieces together and kept them poised throughout the entire season. From #2 seed in the league to game 6 of the NBA finals after a 10 year drought.
Rick Carlisle – Mavericks are a mess so a lot of people are overlooking him, but that’s actually why I think he deserves some credit. Mavericks are just not a great org up top, a lot of personalities clashing. The Mavericks didn’t start off too hot and it looked like they took a bit of a step backwards (I almost feel like there is a MIP element to COY for many people), but in the end of the day they still punch above their weight class. Nearly defeating a healthy Clippers is an incredible feat that I think gets brushed over.
Executive of the Year
I’ll just list the franchise as it’s hard to tell what executive is making what decision.
Brooklyn Nets – Acquiring Steve Nash and D’Antoni who kept an injured team together. They traded for James Harden who was a huge deal for them, and will certainly be an asset for the future. Blake Griffin was a great pick up and not damaged goods at all. They struck out on LaMarcus Aldridge due to an unforeseen health reason, but other would have been a great addition as well. Upgraded the team from a championship contender to what is the best team in the league, but the health did not hold up.
Phoenix Suns – Getting Paul was a gamble and it paid off. Him and Crowder gave the perfect mix of veteran leadership with youth. The Suns played like a team much more experienced than some of their core players look, and Jones should pat himself on the back for winning the West.
Milwaukee Bucks – Proved to Giannis that they were willing to compete by bringing in Jrue Holiday, and thus Giannis re-signing. PJ Tucker was a good mid season addition as well and proved useful. They ditched Eric Bledsoe. Might put the Bucks over the Suns.
Joel Embiid – This is kind of nuts I'm going with this vote cause I did not expect it. I thought Embiid looked incredible from the eye test. It seemed like he could hit shots from anywhere and his stats underrated him. Then I actually looked at his stats and holy crap…if you replaced Embiid’s name with like Shaq you could wouldn’t question the statline (outside of Embiid being able to hit 3s and free throws). I mean Embiid is SO scary as a scorer now. Here is the thing, I think a lot of people looked at Embiid as “injured” – and I have to say, it doesn’t matter. Embiid was incredible with one knee, we don’t even have to play the hypothetical health game, as he was as an injured person – his post season stats are the same as his RS. He was dominating the Hawks with his teammates not being able to hit anything (Seth Curry was his 2nd best player in a few games). Embiid did phase out in the 4th quarter, but hey – Luka, Giannis, Curry and Jokic himself all do after carrying heavy loads. Fact is, Embiid was a stud during the RS, and even with a torn knee was the exact same in the post season – and really only lost because his team just played terribly. This is a very hard POY for me and I might regret this vote, but my brain is saying I should go with Embiid, and that I was picking Nikola because I stubbornly said that’s the guy this year. Embiid was also the best defender on the Sixers, and a better defender than any of the POY contenders (unless you have Gobert as one).
Nikola Jokic – His regular season is just so dominating, it’s very hard for me to not project that his PS stats underrate his ability. He was slowed down by Phoenix, but by the same note his teammates didn’t do much to help on offense. Still, I don’t want to go down too much hypothetical especially since his previous post seasons haven’t been MUCH better than what he did this year. Overall, he is undeniably resilient still and his APG in the post season is not indicative to how important his passing is. I was shocked he only had 2.5 turnovers (Embiid for comparisons sake had 3.8 which is by far his biggest weakness). I don’t think his defense is still that much of a problem, but Embiid and Giannis are big time players on that end still – so that is value left off the table.
Giannis Antetokounmpo – Part of me felt peer pressured in putting Giannis, because I actually thought he might end up 6th (I have 6 contenders this year). I try not to take into account getting deep into the post season as since that can be out of a players hand (I do welcome the bigger sample size though). I thought his regular season was CRIMINALLY underrated – and of course now that he has a ring, all of a sudden he’s a top 3 RS guy. Where was his MVP support this season?! Anyway, I think Giannis’ playoff dominance is a bit over blown – but he did have an excellent one. I think a lot of Giannis weaknesses comes from poor coaching decisions, because offensively he is pretty beastly in the paint but the guy is asked to create too much. Once that was fixed up his scoring averages are to where a player of his caliber should be. I loved his defense this season, and thought he stepped it up the later he went – but he’s more of an all-defense guy to me than a DPOY. I have perhaps 4 guys ahead of him in DPOY at the very least. While I did feel peer pressured to rank him high, another part of me might be too stubborn to give Giannis a good reevaluation. Looking at it, he does compare favorably well to the remaining players and even Jokic. I actually have a hard time seeing what makes him better than Embiid, as his only strengths over Embiid are not that significant.
Stephen Curry – This might be his best season, which made it weird for me to put 3 guys above him. Though I am not super high on Curry as a peak player in general. I think even if Curry underachieved in the post season, his scoring would still be a decent amount better than Luka’s – and what he lacks in Luka’s brilliant playmaking he makes up for it with incredible range and off ball play. I also think Curry’s defensive edge over Luka is big enough to be considered.
Luka Doncic – This was razor close between Kawhi and him. I wish at the time I jotted down who I thought was better because it was going back and forth. Ultimately, I’m going with Luka’s sweet playmaking ability and his feel for the game Is just so far ahead of Kawhi’s. I’m also considering that Luka went up against some hard defenders, and his team is not as talented as Leonard’s. In addition, Luka was a better scorer than Kawhi during the RS which is Kawhi’s biggest strength.
Thought Kawhi Leonard was dynamite and would have loved to see more of him, but from what I’ve seen I’m not entirely sure if he’s above Luka. But who knows, on any given season he could be better than even guys like Curry or Giannis. I love Gobert and am a believer, but I do associate POY with best player, and I do not think Gobert is a top 5 guy – but I would certainly consider him a top ten guy or a contender for it.
Durant, James, Davis and Harden do not make my list because they did not play enough games. I do NOT care about totality of games (I basically rate someone who played 60 games vs 72 games the exact same) – but I care about sample size. If a player doesn’t hit a threshold, he’s not eligible for me.
I realized that my top 5 could go in any other. And I realized that if we omitted Giannis, no one would have anything negative to say about what order the top 5 would be. Giannis seems to be the guy you “have” to put in, or a few posters will get really pissy – but I think he is on the same level as the others, which means it’s reasonable for him to be #1 and it’s reasonable for him to be #5.
This was the hardest POY I’ve done, not just for the top 5 votes but the other categories as well.
Offensive Player of the Year
Nikola Jokic – One of the best passing seasons ever. Jokic scoring went up versus his previous seasons. Love the way he can score from anywhere on the court while not being ball dominant. Good post season run, but obviously not as good as what he did in the playoffs. I think lack of offensive help played a role. Even with his scoring down he’s still a great passing threat, albeit his APG went down a lot as well.
Steph Curry – This was another god like season for Steph, the best one he’s had in a long time. Him vs Doncic is a coin flip. It’s difficult because Curry didn’t make the post season. So does putting Curry over Luka reward Curry for essentially not going to the playoffs and getting slowed down, or does giving it to Luka punish Curry for not having a team good enough to make the post season? I’ve changed my vote back and forth a lot, but I’m going with Curry for now. If I had to project, I would assume even if his game takes a hit in the post season, it might be around where Luka is anyway. Luka is more resilient, but Curry is starting from a higher point.
Luka Doncic - Luka had an incredible series against the Clippers who have a lot of great defensive wings. Luka still managed to volume score on league average while putting over 35 points and double-digit assists. He’s a great conductor, his team was a top ten offense, after hitting the #1 offense last year without much help.
Defensive Player of the Year
Rudy Gobert – Anchored the Jazz to a 1st seed and the best defense. People greatly overlook how poor the Jazz’s defense is. Someone like Ingles is arguably the 2nd or 3rd best defender on the Jazz. The Clippers downed the Jazz with 3s, but obviously those 3s were that open because the perimeter defense was that bad. Jordan Clarkson, injured Mike Conley, Donovan Mitchell, Bojan – it’s pretty miserable line up. Gobert had the stats to back him up, he was the best defender in the league – just like some offensive players need help on offense, give Gobert another good defender and that Clipper series goes quite differently.
Draymond Green – Glad he got some recognition this season. He played pretty well. No one has really emerged to surpass Green yet. Play-In games were a sign that he can raise his level of play in post season like situations still.
Clint Capella – Originally written in Embiid with a paragraph debating how close it is between him and Giannis. Finalizing my list, I think Clint Capella may have been more impressive defensively. The Hawks were not a good defensive team, but they probably would be the worst if Clint was not on the squad. Galanari, Huerter, Bogdan, Young is not a good defensive combo. Stats seem to love Capella as well.
Rookie of the Year
Tyrese Haliburton – His stats are pretty comparable to Ball’s if not slightly better. I think people just fell in love with Ball. Ball came in with hype and he plays a pleasing style of basketball. But he’s really not any more effective than Tyrese. Strange thing is Tyrese played more games also, and people still went with Ball despite not having better stats (I’m not someone who cares much about games played past a certain mark but others penalize players very heavily for missing games).
LaMelo Ball – Getting a bit overhyped, even saw him compared to Luka when their stats are not that close. LaMelo was still an excellent rookie (I thought he would suck), about as good as Haliburton.
Isaiah Stewart – Very interested in where his career goes. Love his build, 6’8 center with great athleticism. His defense is really legit, saw a few games of him and he was blocking the ball into his teammates hands to start the fast break. Plays within himself on offense and has a good feel where to be pretty early in his career. I think he is very comfortably better than Edwards, who wasn’t much of a good player at all – just a high usage highlight guy with a high draft pick. (not saying I’m low on him as a prospect, but I hate the idea that ROY goes to any top pick who puts up points)
Most Improved Player
Joel Embiid – His shot making ability is hitting all time for a center. Not many centers are as good of a scorer as Embiid now. Before he was a problem, now he is unguardable.
Zach Lavine – Huge scoring spike.
Mikel Bridges – Looks seasoned now. Love his movement without the ball. Great cutter and in transition – his shot making is improved as well.
As a rule of thumb I don’t give MIP to 2nd year players, so Michael Porter Jr is not eligible. A lot of Ayton’s improvement came from a change in role as well as now CP3 hooking him up. Ayton was pretty much used as an under the basket force as opposed to a guy who creates his own offense. Still very good, but also way more limited than what most people realize. Jaylen Brown is a good mention, but his improvement seems a bit more gradual. I actually really wanted to vote for Clint Capella here, offensively he’s not improved at all, but his defense is really something this year. Blake Griffin is an interesting player, as he was not a factor for a long time – but I’m not sure how to factor in players who barely played in previous seasons for MIP. I do not think Julius Randle is that much improved and wasn’t surprised that he was dreadful in the playoffs, as the things that are bad about him have fundamentally stayed the same.
Sixth Man of the Year
Joe Ingles – Swiss army knife, he was a great point-forward for the Jazz. Not sure why he didn’t play more minutes in the post season.
Thad Young – Great defensive player who can exploit his smaller size against other power forwards when he’s on offense.
Derrick Rose – Was very much the focal point of the Knicks offense in the post season – which isn’t saying much, but quite the responsibility for a bench player. All and all, he didn’t do bad – about as good as someone like Tim Hardaway did but without Luka to take pressure off him. His playmaking seals the deal.
Jordan Clarkson’s scoring is not good enough to over come these other guys. Rose does what he does but better and he’s more versatile and more of a leader. Thybulle is an interesting contender, but he is very young and as a result he wasn’t very in the earlier parts of the season.
Coach of the Year
Nate McMillan – Taking over a struggling team mid-season and turning it around is the ultimate feat for a coach. Not only that, but they were a threat in the post season, winning two series – one which was supposed to be competitive (it wasn’t) and another one they were supposed to lose (they didn’t).
Monty Williams – Put all the young pieces together and kept them poised throughout the entire season. From #2 seed in the league to game 6 of the NBA finals after a 10 year drought.
Rick Carlisle – Mavericks are a mess so a lot of people are overlooking him, but that’s actually why I think he deserves some credit. Mavericks are just not a great org up top, a lot of personalities clashing. The Mavericks didn’t start off too hot and it looked like they took a bit of a step backwards (I almost feel like there is a MIP element to COY for many people), but in the end of the day they still punch above their weight class. Nearly defeating a healthy Clippers is an incredible feat that I think gets brushed over.
Executive of the Year
I’ll just list the franchise as it’s hard to tell what executive is making what decision.
Brooklyn Nets – Acquiring Steve Nash and D’Antoni who kept an injured team together. They traded for James Harden who was a huge deal for them, and will certainly be an asset for the future. Blake Griffin was a great pick up and not damaged goods at all. They struck out on LaMarcus Aldridge due to an unforeseen health reason, but other would have been a great addition as well. Upgraded the team from a championship contender to what is the best team in the league, but the health did not hold up.
Phoenix Suns – Getting Paul was a gamble and it paid off. Him and Crowder gave the perfect mix of veteran leadership with youth. The Suns played like a team much more experienced than some of their core players look, and Jones should pat himself on the back for winning the West.
Milwaukee Bucks – Proved to Giannis that they were willing to compete by bringing in Jrue Holiday, and thus Giannis re-signing. PJ Tucker was a good mid season addition as well and proved useful. They ditched Eric Bledsoe. Might put the Bucks over the Suns.
Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
POY-1. Giannis-Giannis and Jokic were super close and the reason why this post has not come out until now is possibly because I wanted to dwell on it as much as possible. In the end, I picked Giannis because I thought he was the better player. He was a top 3-4 guy in the RS based on the typical impact metrics, and possibly because of a larger sample, he performed better in the PS than Jokic. His PS run from Game 5 of the Nets series until the Finals was truly all-time level stuff and I imagine is somewhat a sign of things to come.
2. Jokic-The best RS player this year by a good margin especially when you count for games played and his defense being better than Curry’s. His round 1 against Portland was spectacular, and in round 2 he was fine for the situation he was dealing with, but didn’t blow anyone away. I think Giannis pummeled the Suns D much more than Jokic did, and while some of that can be attributed to the lack of talent Jokic had around him, I do wonder if Giannis went to another level.
3. Stephen Curry- He and Jokic added the most offensive value throughout this season. Jokic was a better defender this year, and played every game, so he gets the leg up over Curry.
4. Kawhi-Solid RS even though he coasted. He was the best player in the playoffs before his injury in my mind. He has a history of terrific scoring in the PS and that carried over. He was healthier than Embiid during the RS, and though he got hurt in the PS, I suppose I still favor him because I think he has a legit argument as the best player in the world and have him ahead of Embiid.
5. Joel Embiid-He is maybe just behind Jokic but maybe ahead of Curry. However, he missed too much time, so he finds himself lower definitively at #4. He performed admirably in the PS and I feel like he gave more effort on defense in the PS than the RS. He scored well, but he didn’t play against the toughest defenses.and his defense is good but still a step down from Giannis, Anthony Davis, Draymond, and that kind of stuff matters here when you miss so much time.
OPOY-
1.Stephen Curry- Steph finished number #1 in many of the value plus-minus metrics for the complete season: O-EPM, O-LEBRON, O-RAPTOR. I don’t know if a lot of people realize this. He did this with mediocre spacing and often finding himself trapped, attempting to make someone else on the Warriors beat them. Curry was excellent in the play-in games other than the turnovers, so I see no issue giving him the top spot. I prefer him to Jokic a bit because of his offensive gravity, and him being a bit less reliant on others getting him the ball. He played against the #1 Lakers in the play-in and performed, and that single game by him offensively might have been better than any game Jokic had against the Suns. I know sample size is an issue, but it is noteworthy. Steph and the Nuggets both had poor rosters offensively, but I think Steph stood out more.
2. Nikola Jokic- He ranked 2nd/3rd on offense in the impact metrics I named, while also being 1st in Backpicks OBPM (which is more playmaking sensitive and puts more emphasis on non-traditional inputs to measure all-around goodness).
3.I think Luka is the best offensive floor-raiser in the world. He had a fine RS, but the last 2 PS are where he has really wowed me.I think from just strictly an offense only standpoint he impressed more than anyone. His RS is what holds him back from the 2 in front of him.
DPOY
1. Rudy Gobert-Led the RS in all defensive-impact metrics, and then his defensive on/off was insane in the PS. The Clippers having a great shooting game in game 6, doesn’t change the fact that he was absurd all season.
2. Giannis Antetokumpo-Top 3-5 defender during the RS despite not expanding full energy and then he stepped it up a few notches in the PS. He guarded Jimmy Butler EXTREMELY well during the first round, despite his calling being as a help defender.
3. Clint Capela- He is what made the Hawks defense passable. Draymond Green is the better defender but Capela had the more complete season with a higher motor.
ROY
1. Lamelo Ball-Best all-around season.
2. Tyrese Haliburton-Efficient, smart rookie, who does extremely well in the impact metrics. Has a smaller role than some rookies offensively, but he still performed really well in it.
3. Anthony Edwards-Started off the year very slow, which hurts him here. He and Lamelo are comparable if we take their best season stretches.
MIP
1. Joel Embiid
2. Nikola Jokic
3. Zion Williamson
6 MOY
1. Joe Ingles-Ultra efficient, solid enough defender, and just did a lot of the little things that add value.
2. Thad Young-Deserving of winning it all, but I think Ingles' offense with his efficiency was just a bit more outlier than Young's defense. Both are great passers though I imagine Ingles creates more.
3. Derrick Rose-He had a good year and was by far the Knicks best player in the PS if that counts for anything.
COY
1. Monty Williams
2. Nate McMillian
3. Tom Thibodeau
EOY
1. Sean Marks, Brooklyn
2. James Jones, Phoenix
3. Travis Schlenk, Atlanta
2. Jokic-The best RS player this year by a good margin especially when you count for games played and his defense being better than Curry’s. His round 1 against Portland was spectacular, and in round 2 he was fine for the situation he was dealing with, but didn’t blow anyone away. I think Giannis pummeled the Suns D much more than Jokic did, and while some of that can be attributed to the lack of talent Jokic had around him, I do wonder if Giannis went to another level.
3. Stephen Curry- He and Jokic added the most offensive value throughout this season. Jokic was a better defender this year, and played every game, so he gets the leg up over Curry.
4. Kawhi-Solid RS even though he coasted. He was the best player in the playoffs before his injury in my mind. He has a history of terrific scoring in the PS and that carried over. He was healthier than Embiid during the RS, and though he got hurt in the PS, I suppose I still favor him because I think he has a legit argument as the best player in the world and have him ahead of Embiid.
5. Joel Embiid-He is maybe just behind Jokic but maybe ahead of Curry. However, he missed too much time, so he finds himself lower definitively at #4. He performed admirably in the PS and I feel like he gave more effort on defense in the PS than the RS. He scored well, but he didn’t play against the toughest defenses.and his defense is good but still a step down from Giannis, Anthony Davis, Draymond, and that kind of stuff matters here when you miss so much time.
OPOY-
1.Stephen Curry- Steph finished number #1 in many of the value plus-minus metrics for the complete season: O-EPM, O-LEBRON, O-RAPTOR. I don’t know if a lot of people realize this. He did this with mediocre spacing and often finding himself trapped, attempting to make someone else on the Warriors beat them. Curry was excellent in the play-in games other than the turnovers, so I see no issue giving him the top spot. I prefer him to Jokic a bit because of his offensive gravity, and him being a bit less reliant on others getting him the ball. He played against the #1 Lakers in the play-in and performed, and that single game by him offensively might have been better than any game Jokic had against the Suns. I know sample size is an issue, but it is noteworthy. Steph and the Nuggets both had poor rosters offensively, but I think Steph stood out more.
2. Nikola Jokic- He ranked 2nd/3rd on offense in the impact metrics I named, while also being 1st in Backpicks OBPM (which is more playmaking sensitive and puts more emphasis on non-traditional inputs to measure all-around goodness).
3.I think Luka is the best offensive floor-raiser in the world. He had a fine RS, but the last 2 PS are where he has really wowed me.I think from just strictly an offense only standpoint he impressed more than anyone. His RS is what holds him back from the 2 in front of him.
DPOY
1. Rudy Gobert-Led the RS in all defensive-impact metrics, and then his defensive on/off was insane in the PS. The Clippers having a great shooting game in game 6, doesn’t change the fact that he was absurd all season.
2. Giannis Antetokumpo-Top 3-5 defender during the RS despite not expanding full energy and then he stepped it up a few notches in the PS. He guarded Jimmy Butler EXTREMELY well during the first round, despite his calling being as a help defender.
3. Clint Capela- He is what made the Hawks defense passable. Draymond Green is the better defender but Capela had the more complete season with a higher motor.
ROY
1. Lamelo Ball-Best all-around season.
2. Tyrese Haliburton-Efficient, smart rookie, who does extremely well in the impact metrics. Has a smaller role than some rookies offensively, but he still performed really well in it.
3. Anthony Edwards-Started off the year very slow, which hurts him here. He and Lamelo are comparable if we take their best season stretches.
MIP
1. Joel Embiid
2. Nikola Jokic
3. Zion Williamson
6 MOY
1. Joe Ingles-Ultra efficient, solid enough defender, and just did a lot of the little things that add value.
2. Thad Young-Deserving of winning it all, but I think Ingles' offense with his efficiency was just a bit more outlier than Young's defense. Both are great passers though I imagine Ingles creates more.
3. Derrick Rose-He had a good year and was by far the Knicks best player in the PS if that counts for anything.
COY
1. Monty Williams
2. Nate McMillian
3. Tom Thibodeau
EOY
1. Sean Marks, Brooklyn
2. James Jones, Phoenix
3. Travis Schlenk, Atlanta
Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
PoY
1. Nikola Jokic
Clear MVP of the regular season. There was a dip in his scoring efficiency in the postseason but I think it's not big enough to knock him down for, especially considering Murray's absence and Jokic stepping up to score in bigger and bigger numbers. Despite his issues on defense, his playmaking value was still a clear (good) outlier with his great scoring numbers.
His O-VORP rate in regular season was 51.6% and in postseason was 55.9%. For reference, those marks on par with 2000 Shaq.
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo
This big man Giannis could be the #1 if he was around from the start of the playoffs and did not miss games. But he had a shaky performance against the Nets, he was basically outclassed by Durant, he missed 2 games against the Hawks in the ECF and his team closed out the series with 2 double digit victories. I mean, those last 5 finals games were just otherworldly. But, like I said, it wasn't a consistent season from Giannis up until that point.
3. Stephen Curry
The season Curry proved himself to be a great floor raiser like 2006 Kobe and 2009 Flash. Just massive performance. In a normal season, the Warriors were on a 48W pace with Steph. He also missed games, and those games actually mattered a great deal since his team was 0.587 with him and that 0.587 would help them to avoid the play-in. But considering Embiid missed even more games, Curry is safe here.
4. Joel Embiid
Similar productivity and impact rate to Curry but with more missed games. Not much else to say for me really.
5. Rudy Gobert
He's definitely a monster on defense. I can't help but think that with this heavy spacing, especially enabled with so lax rule implementations, defensive impact is hard capped right now and Gobert is too one-dimensional to be any higher than this. I thought of Kawhi Leonard because I thought that Gobert was closer to Leonard than Embiid. Didn't lose to Leonard because Leonard missed too many games to earn this spot over Gobert but I'm kind of sad that defensive impact and Gobert are hard capped.
---
O-PoY
1. Nikola Jokic
2. Stephen Curry
3. Luka Doncic
Top 2 is pretty clear with Jokic and Curry, Doncic vs. Lillard is an interesting conversation though.
---
D-PoY
1. Rudy Gobert
2. Clint Capela
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo
This was just too many close calls after Gobert with Capela, Antetokounmpo, Simmons, Green and Embiid. I went with the top 3 that made the most sense to me.
---
RoY
1. Anthony Edwards
2. Tyrese Haliburton
3. LaMelo Ball
Decided with a mixture of playtime, production rates and impact rates. Edwards was the only rookie scored 900+ points in the season, he was also ahead of the other 2 in play time with more than 500 minutes gap over both and I don't think the other two 2 have enough quality/impact edge over Edwards to get that #1 spot.
---
6th MoY
1. Thaddeus Young
2. Joe Ingles
3. Derrick Rose
Am I mad because I have Young over Ingles for this?
---
CoY
1. Monty Williams
2. Nate McMillan
3. Tom Thibodeau
I consider how many extra wins generated by a head coach for this one and even though Thibodeau generated the most extra wins in regular season, the gap in there is not big with the way I see. I mean, despite missing nearly half of the season, McMillan nearly generated just as many wins, considering the Hawks were 14-20 & -0.3 NRtg before him and were 27-11 & +4.5 NRtg with him.
1. Nikola Jokic
Clear MVP of the regular season. There was a dip in his scoring efficiency in the postseason but I think it's not big enough to knock him down for, especially considering Murray's absence and Jokic stepping up to score in bigger and bigger numbers. Despite his issues on defense, his playmaking value was still a clear (good) outlier with his great scoring numbers.
His O-VORP rate in regular season was 51.6% and in postseason was 55.9%. For reference, those marks on par with 2000 Shaq.
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo
This big man Giannis could be the #1 if he was around from the start of the playoffs and did not miss games. But he had a shaky performance against the Nets, he was basically outclassed by Durant, he missed 2 games against the Hawks in the ECF and his team closed out the series with 2 double digit victories. I mean, those last 5 finals games were just otherworldly. But, like I said, it wasn't a consistent season from Giannis up until that point.
3. Stephen Curry
The season Curry proved himself to be a great floor raiser like 2006 Kobe and 2009 Flash. Just massive performance. In a normal season, the Warriors were on a 48W pace with Steph. He also missed games, and those games actually mattered a great deal since his team was 0.587 with him and that 0.587 would help them to avoid the play-in. But considering Embiid missed even more games, Curry is safe here.
4. Joel Embiid
Similar productivity and impact rate to Curry but with more missed games. Not much else to say for me really.
5. Rudy Gobert
He's definitely a monster on defense. I can't help but think that with this heavy spacing, especially enabled with so lax rule implementations, defensive impact is hard capped right now and Gobert is too one-dimensional to be any higher than this. I thought of Kawhi Leonard because I thought that Gobert was closer to Leonard than Embiid. Didn't lose to Leonard because Leonard missed too many games to earn this spot over Gobert but I'm kind of sad that defensive impact and Gobert are hard capped.
---
O-PoY
1. Nikola Jokic
2. Stephen Curry
3. Luka Doncic
Top 2 is pretty clear with Jokic and Curry, Doncic vs. Lillard is an interesting conversation though.
---
D-PoY
1. Rudy Gobert
2. Clint Capela
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo
This was just too many close calls after Gobert with Capela, Antetokounmpo, Simmons, Green and Embiid. I went with the top 3 that made the most sense to me.
---
RoY
1. Anthony Edwards
2. Tyrese Haliburton
3. LaMelo Ball
Decided with a mixture of playtime, production rates and impact rates. Edwards was the only rookie scored 900+ points in the season, he was also ahead of the other 2 in play time with more than 500 minutes gap over both and I don't think the other two 2 have enough quality/impact edge over Edwards to get that #1 spot.
---
6th MoY
1. Thaddeus Young
2. Joe Ingles
3. Derrick Rose
Am I mad because I have Young over Ingles for this?

---
CoY
1. Monty Williams
2. Nate McMillan
3. Tom Thibodeau
I consider how many extra wins generated by a head coach for this one and even though Thibodeau generated the most extra wins in regular season, the gap in there is not big with the way I see. I mean, despite missing nearly half of the season, McMillan nearly generated just as many wins, considering the Hawks were 14-20 & -0.3 NRtg before him and were 27-11 & +4.5 NRtg with him.
The issue with per75 numbers;
36pts on 27 fga/9 fta in 36 mins, does this mean he'd keep up the efficiency to get 48pts on 36fga/12fta in 48 mins?
The answer; NO. He's human, not a linearly working machine.
Per75 is efficiency rate, not actual production.
36pts on 27 fga/9 fta in 36 mins, does this mean he'd keep up the efficiency to get 48pts on 36fga/12fta in 48 mins?
The answer; NO. He's human, not a linearly working machine.
Per75 is efficiency rate, not actual production.
Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
My votes:
Player of the Year
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
2. Nikola Jokic
3. Rudy Gobert
4. Steph Curry
5. Joel Embiid
Honorable Mention
Kawhi Leonard
Damian Lillard
Luka Doncic
Chris Paul
Kevin Durant
My POY ballot is the same as it was after the RS, except with Giannis moving up from #5 to #1. Long story short, while I'm personally a bigger fanboy of Jokic, it just doesn't take that much for me to see Giannis as more impressive than him. Meaning - when I see Giannis look like a Greek God out there, I tend to believe it.
As mentioned, including Gobert on the ballot feels strange to me for all the reasons you'd expect it to, but while Gobert's skillset is limited, he impacted the game like a strong MVP candidate in the regular season, and most of the guys I felt confident enough in that I thought might move up ahead of Gobert because of playoff performance, didn't really get there.
Curry was astonishing at his best, but didn't do it all season.
Embiid's ability to impact the game just seems so inevitable, but he missed enough time others were clearly ahead of him after the regular season, and while I thought he performed well in the playoffs, that upset loss really makes it hard for him to rise.
Kawhi, Dame, Luka, and Paul were all guys I had slotted in in the 6-10 range during the regular season. I thought Kawhi & Luke both had good shots to move up on my list, but in the end, it didn't quite happen for them.
Giving the lost HM spot to KD. I generally reserve the right to a lot of wiggle room with my mentions, and so the fact that KD missed so much time in the regular season is overlooked a bit in recognition of the fact that KD almost won that series against the eventual champs and had the basketball world, Giannis included, saying KD was the best player in the world.
OPOY
1. Nikola Jokic
2. Steph Curry
3. Damian Lillard
Honorable Mention: Luka Doncic
Curry was the best at his best, but Jokic was a brilliant offensive player night in and night out.
Giving the nod for the 3rd spot to Dame over Luka. I get that Luka might be the most playoff-unstoppable player in the world already - emphasizing "might", open to debate - but the Mavs had to play the Clippers again not because they fell off a cliff without Luka, but because once again, the team didn't do that much better with Luka on the court compared to without. I'd like to see Luka turn the corner on this.
DPOY
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
2. Rudy Gobert
3. Draymond Green
Honorable Mention: Jrue Holiday
As with the POY, I think Giannis did enough in the playoffs I'm comfortable moving him up above the regular season leader.
Gobert falls behind Giannis, but really that's it.
Tons of respect for Draymond, but like Curry, he wasn't his best self all year long and no playoffs.
Kinda wanted to give Jrue a vote here but as great as he is at what he does, I can't say I think he's the overall defender Dray is.
ROY
1. LaMelo Ball
2. Anthony Edwards
3. Tyrese Haliburton
LaMelo to me stood out as the clear top candidate to be the kind of outlier superstar the world adores.
I remain somewhat skeptical on Edwards, but I can't deny that he turned a corner mid-way through the season and can't justify anyone else above him.
Haliburton is a guy I'll be cheering on for a long time. Arguably the Rookie MVP.
MIP
1. Deandre Ayton
2. Michael Porter
3. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Ayton really turned a corner this year more than the stats indicate. Still not the strongest MIP you'll ever see, but he takes the top spot for me.
Porter had my vote after the regular season. The playoffs hurt. I do think Porter was hurt during the playoffs and that was part of why he struggled, but I'm not prepared to argue for Porter over Ayton at the moment.
SGA may well have been the actual MIP when he played. He obviously missed a lot of time though. Enough time I feel a bit weird even having him on my ballot, but he's the guy my mind keeps coming back to.
You'll note there's no Randle. I'm sorry, I think the breakout we saw this year is mostly fool's gold allowed by Thibs' offensive scheme, which (with Randle at helio), isn't a wise one.
6MOY
1. Joe Ingles
2. Tim Hardaway Jr.
3. Thaddeus Young
This is about how I had it after the regular season except that I moved Jordan Clarkson down. While I'm not entirely opposed to having two 6MOY candidates from the same team, I can't deny it really hurts the argument for whichever guy ends up as the "7th man" in my eyes. But I'll also say that I think I just like THJ & Thad better than Clarkson.
COY
1. Monty Williams
2. Ty Lue
3. Quin Snyder
It was Monty all year for me. I think it's critical to give Monty credit for turning around the culture of the Suns. I'm not saying he's the only one who deserves credit, but this was no small achievement on Sarver's team.
Lue was super-impressive in the playoffs. In the end the only one he didn't pass up is Monty, whose team eliminated Lue's. I can't say I thought Lue got outcoached by Monty or anyone else along the way though.
Snyder was #2 for me in the regular season, and I debated between him and Nate McMillan. In the end, though Atlanta got further in the playoffs, I think Utah was the better team the whole time, and that Atlanta wouldn't have beat the team that beat the Jazz either. Makes it feel like overreacting to elevate McMillan too much given that Snyder had the clear edge for me previously.
EOY
1. Sean Marks
2. James Jones
3. Travis Schlenk
I went back and forth on these three, but I just kept coming back to Marks. The reality is that he's been playing the Big Game going after, and getting, the biggest talents in the game, and I don't think that should ever be dismissed lightly.
Jones has the argument of making the player acquisition that made the biggest impact this year...but of course that's only because Harden was hurt for much of the year, and Jones' acquisition being healthier than Marks' isn't something I'm ready to attribute to anything more than luck.
Schlenk was fundamentally solid in his decisions made this year, but in the end, his player additions were not the "Wow" moves guys higher on the list made, and I'm reluctant to build up the narrative around the McMillan hiring and promoting too much.
I don't want to be overly negative on anyone here, but I do feel compelled to note that I never seriously considered last year's winner Sam Presti this year, for reasons similar to why I wasn't that high on him last year: He's tearing down, not building up. I'm not saying he shouldn't be doing this, or that he's doing this poorly, but it won't amount to a hill of beans unless he drafts, or otherwise uses, all those draft picks really well, and at such time as he finally does so, then I'll be giving him serious consideration.
Player of the Year
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
2. Nikola Jokic
3. Rudy Gobert
4. Steph Curry
5. Joel Embiid
Honorable Mention
Kawhi Leonard
Damian Lillard
Luka Doncic
Chris Paul
Kevin Durant
My POY ballot is the same as it was after the RS, except with Giannis moving up from #5 to #1. Long story short, while I'm personally a bigger fanboy of Jokic, it just doesn't take that much for me to see Giannis as more impressive than him. Meaning - when I see Giannis look like a Greek God out there, I tend to believe it.
As mentioned, including Gobert on the ballot feels strange to me for all the reasons you'd expect it to, but while Gobert's skillset is limited, he impacted the game like a strong MVP candidate in the regular season, and most of the guys I felt confident enough in that I thought might move up ahead of Gobert because of playoff performance, didn't really get there.
Curry was astonishing at his best, but didn't do it all season.
Embiid's ability to impact the game just seems so inevitable, but he missed enough time others were clearly ahead of him after the regular season, and while I thought he performed well in the playoffs, that upset loss really makes it hard for him to rise.
Kawhi, Dame, Luka, and Paul were all guys I had slotted in in the 6-10 range during the regular season. I thought Kawhi & Luke both had good shots to move up on my list, but in the end, it didn't quite happen for them.
Giving the lost HM spot to KD. I generally reserve the right to a lot of wiggle room with my mentions, and so the fact that KD missed so much time in the regular season is overlooked a bit in recognition of the fact that KD almost won that series against the eventual champs and had the basketball world, Giannis included, saying KD was the best player in the world.
OPOY
1. Nikola Jokic
2. Steph Curry
3. Damian Lillard
Honorable Mention: Luka Doncic
Curry was the best at his best, but Jokic was a brilliant offensive player night in and night out.
Giving the nod for the 3rd spot to Dame over Luka. I get that Luka might be the most playoff-unstoppable player in the world already - emphasizing "might", open to debate - but the Mavs had to play the Clippers again not because they fell off a cliff without Luka, but because once again, the team didn't do that much better with Luka on the court compared to without. I'd like to see Luka turn the corner on this.
DPOY
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
2. Rudy Gobert
3. Draymond Green
Honorable Mention: Jrue Holiday
As with the POY, I think Giannis did enough in the playoffs I'm comfortable moving him up above the regular season leader.
Gobert falls behind Giannis, but really that's it.
Tons of respect for Draymond, but like Curry, he wasn't his best self all year long and no playoffs.
Kinda wanted to give Jrue a vote here but as great as he is at what he does, I can't say I think he's the overall defender Dray is.
ROY
1. LaMelo Ball
2. Anthony Edwards
3. Tyrese Haliburton
LaMelo to me stood out as the clear top candidate to be the kind of outlier superstar the world adores.
I remain somewhat skeptical on Edwards, but I can't deny that he turned a corner mid-way through the season and can't justify anyone else above him.
Haliburton is a guy I'll be cheering on for a long time. Arguably the Rookie MVP.
MIP
1. Deandre Ayton
2. Michael Porter
3. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Ayton really turned a corner this year more than the stats indicate. Still not the strongest MIP you'll ever see, but he takes the top spot for me.
Porter had my vote after the regular season. The playoffs hurt. I do think Porter was hurt during the playoffs and that was part of why he struggled, but I'm not prepared to argue for Porter over Ayton at the moment.
SGA may well have been the actual MIP when he played. He obviously missed a lot of time though. Enough time I feel a bit weird even having him on my ballot, but he's the guy my mind keeps coming back to.
You'll note there's no Randle. I'm sorry, I think the breakout we saw this year is mostly fool's gold allowed by Thibs' offensive scheme, which (with Randle at helio), isn't a wise one.
6MOY
1. Joe Ingles
2. Tim Hardaway Jr.
3. Thaddeus Young
This is about how I had it after the regular season except that I moved Jordan Clarkson down. While I'm not entirely opposed to having two 6MOY candidates from the same team, I can't deny it really hurts the argument for whichever guy ends up as the "7th man" in my eyes. But I'll also say that I think I just like THJ & Thad better than Clarkson.
COY
1. Monty Williams
2. Ty Lue
3. Quin Snyder
It was Monty all year for me. I think it's critical to give Monty credit for turning around the culture of the Suns. I'm not saying he's the only one who deserves credit, but this was no small achievement on Sarver's team.
Lue was super-impressive in the playoffs. In the end the only one he didn't pass up is Monty, whose team eliminated Lue's. I can't say I thought Lue got outcoached by Monty or anyone else along the way though.
Snyder was #2 for me in the regular season, and I debated between him and Nate McMillan. In the end, though Atlanta got further in the playoffs, I think Utah was the better team the whole time, and that Atlanta wouldn't have beat the team that beat the Jazz either. Makes it feel like overreacting to elevate McMillan too much given that Snyder had the clear edge for me previously.
EOY
1. Sean Marks
2. James Jones
3. Travis Schlenk
I went back and forth on these three, but I just kept coming back to Marks. The reality is that he's been playing the Big Game going after, and getting, the biggest talents in the game, and I don't think that should ever be dismissed lightly.
Jones has the argument of making the player acquisition that made the biggest impact this year...but of course that's only because Harden was hurt for much of the year, and Jones' acquisition being healthier than Marks' isn't something I'm ready to attribute to anything more than luck.
Schlenk was fundamentally solid in his decisions made this year, but in the end, his player additions were not the "Wow" moves guys higher on the list made, and I'm reluctant to build up the narrative around the McMillan hiring and promoting too much.
I don't want to be overly negative on anyone here, but I do feel compelled to note that I never seriously considered last year's winner Sam Presti this year, for reasons similar to why I wasn't that high on him last year: He's tearing down, not building up. I'm not saying he shouldn't be doing this, or that he's doing this poorly, but it won't amount to a hill of beans unless he drafts, or otherwise uses, all those draft picks really well, and at such time as he finally does so, then I'll be giving him serious consideration.
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
Y'all, I'll be tallying up the votes tomorrow, at my convenience. If you haven't voted, vote ASAP so you beat me to it. Cheers, Doc
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
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Re: 2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Voting Thread
Oh shoot, almost missed the deadline
.
POY
1. Jokic - Just an amazing regular season, and the playoffs his team wasn't healthy but there wasn't anything there to me saying he had a poor showing (or even less than great).
2. Giannis - Strong regular season and came on well later in the postseason including an all timer of a finals. He was up there in the regular season too, but Jokic was just incredible so I can't quite put him first.
3. Embiid - Another strong regular season, had some health concerns or could have been in the MVP race.
4. Gobert - Utah went out on a down note, but shouldn't overshadow the regular season they put together. And Gobert was a huge part of it.
5. Curry - See above, just had no playoffs to even add value in which made it tougher.
HM to Leonard and Butler.
DPOY
1. Gobert
2. Simmons
3. Giannis
Looking back over some impact numbers, Simmons ended up 12th in DRAPM, 23rd luck adjusted, and 7th in EPM. All ahead of Embiid and Giannis, and I do think there's a bit of something to the switchability discussion and its value. I actually thought Embiid was ahead in some of these but looking back and the numbers weren't what I'd expected/remembered.
OPOY
1. Jokic
2. Curry
3. Doncic
All 3 of these guys just had bonkers years.
6MOY
1. Ingles
2. Rose
3. Young
MIP
1. Randle
2. Porter Jr.
3. Capela
I'm giving Capela a shout out here because I didn't see this coming from him and he was a legit defensive anchor on a team without a ton of defensive talent that I could see. MPJ is a guy who maybe I was just too low on in the past but I think showed enough that even though I'm not as high on him as many I still see him significantly improved.
COY
1. Williams
2. Thibodeau
3. McMillan
3 was tough, and almost voted Snyder but a bit of looking at other ballots (hey I'll own it) and also the postseason collapse where the Hawks just took advantage of at least one team in Philly who should on paper have been a fairly large favorite and put up a good fight against another in the Bucks.
ROY
1. Ball
2. Edwards
3. Haliburton
EOY
1. Jones
2. Presti
3. Horst
Jones has put together a string of really solid moves to improve the Suns over a few years but the Paul trade and some smart vet signings put him there. Presti hasn't completed the rebuild but darn did he start it well (maybe homer putting him 2nd here but the asset collection is remarkable). Horst just ended up finishing off a title team, and the Bogi trade hurt but don't know how much to dock him. Marks's two most impactful moves to me were the prior season.

POY
1. Jokic - Just an amazing regular season, and the playoffs his team wasn't healthy but there wasn't anything there to me saying he had a poor showing (or even less than great).
2. Giannis - Strong regular season and came on well later in the postseason including an all timer of a finals. He was up there in the regular season too, but Jokic was just incredible so I can't quite put him first.
3. Embiid - Another strong regular season, had some health concerns or could have been in the MVP race.
4. Gobert - Utah went out on a down note, but shouldn't overshadow the regular season they put together. And Gobert was a huge part of it.
5. Curry - See above, just had no playoffs to even add value in which made it tougher.
HM to Leonard and Butler.
DPOY
1. Gobert
2. Simmons
3. Giannis
Looking back over some impact numbers, Simmons ended up 12th in DRAPM, 23rd luck adjusted, and 7th in EPM. All ahead of Embiid and Giannis, and I do think there's a bit of something to the switchability discussion and its value. I actually thought Embiid was ahead in some of these but looking back and the numbers weren't what I'd expected/remembered.
OPOY
1. Jokic
2. Curry
3. Doncic
All 3 of these guys just had bonkers years.
6MOY
1. Ingles
2. Rose
3. Young
MIP
1. Randle
2. Porter Jr.
3. Capela
I'm giving Capela a shout out here because I didn't see this coming from him and he was a legit defensive anchor on a team without a ton of defensive talent that I could see. MPJ is a guy who maybe I was just too low on in the past but I think showed enough that even though I'm not as high on him as many I still see him significantly improved.
COY
1. Williams
2. Thibodeau
3. McMillan
3 was tough, and almost voted Snyder but a bit of looking at other ballots (hey I'll own it) and also the postseason collapse where the Hawks just took advantage of at least one team in Philly who should on paper have been a fairly large favorite and put up a good fight against another in the Bucks.
ROY
1. Ball
2. Edwards
3. Haliburton
EOY
1. Jones
2. Presti
3. Horst
Jones has put together a string of really solid moves to improve the Suns over a few years but the Paul trade and some smart vet signings put him there. Presti hasn't completed the rebuild but darn did he start it well (maybe homer putting him 2nd here but the asset collection is remarkable). Horst just ended up finishing off a title team, and the Bogi trade hurt but don't know how much to dock him. Marks's two most impactful moves to me were the prior season.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO